Elitist shamers are the true ruin of pvp in this game!

[LD_Little_Dragon]

. The majority of them is as much to blame in many cases ["Noobs didn't go help in E, uninstall game!!!" - "Why didn't YOU go there yourself?"]

 

This so much - it's amazing the number of times I've seen someone take the time to type out in chat complaining because there's no guard at such and such a node - when they could have hustled their butt there in the time it took to type their rant.

 

I don't care how badly a guard screws up, don't throw abuse at them. Seeing as so many times none of the 'good' players will guard, of course you get people guarding who shouldn't be. New players haven't learned how to run away as fast as they can like the veteran players do so they end up guarding (or you get no guard).

 

My healer ends up guarding more often than not - because I can't stand seeing an unguarded node. so when all the dps run off, I'll turn back and guard. A lot of times when I manage to run off fast enough to not be left guarding - it will be another healer who's ended up as guard. DPS tend to be ... not team players, but great at blaming other people for letting down the team.

[Liquor]

https://youtu.be/wujVMIYzYXg

 

would millennial be a better fit than sjw?

 

but I'm hungry, keep feeding me.

 

 

SOME good players. Those whose self-image is not too dependent on their success in 1 warzone or another. I have seen several good players call nothing but names and curses at people who failed to prevent a sap-cap. Even though these people need advice, this is not what they received.

 

Don't claim all good players are mature people, it is as wrong as saying all noobs are childish people. And while we are at it, I will repeat that not all players who curse other players when they lose are good players. The majority of them is as much to blame in many cases ["Noobs didn't go help in E, uninstall game!!!" - "Why didn't YOU go there yourself?"]

 

There are crybabies who get insulted by constructive criticism. There are crybabies who yell insults and curses in addition or instead of constructive criticism. Both kinds need to grow up and cease their behavior. And before the subject is raised, I see no relevance in discussing what is the majority of the cases that happen nowadays. It is up to each player to judge the individual situation he is at and make sure he is not on the crybaby side, whenever he is the one calling or the one being called.

 

 

i think you're missing the troll parts of my posts. im not saying all good players. just good players. i didnt say ALL.

you got triggered by a troll and are being way too critical on sarcastic posts.

 

i didnt happen to sap cap you when i was on my sniper did i? those shouldnt happen, but they do.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Liquor

[abhaxus]

It's pretty frustrating playing wz after wz with players that can't manage more than 1k dps. Not a surprise people are toxic.

 

Personally I am just trying to be helpful when I explain to my teammates that there are pictures on the screen that are called icons. These icons are clickable, and are linked to abilities that do damage to the other team or heal allies. If you link the icons to keyboard buttons, you can then use these keys more rapidly. If you press them in the right order you will maximize your damage or healing output and be a better contributor to your team.

[Rafiknoll]

i think you're missing the troll parts of my posts. im not saying all good players. just good players. i didnt say ALL.

you got triggered by a troll and are being way too critical on sarcastic posts.

 

I was solely responding to the part of your post that I quoted, which, regardless of your intentions, could sound serious to some readers who might think you make sense, so I corrected it. I was already 50-50 that you are trolling. I was not "critical" and didn't attack YOU once. Just wanted to leave less room for errors.

 

i didnt happen to sap cap you when i was on my sniper did i? those shouldnt happen, but they do.

 

In case that would happen to someone in my group, I would tell him to try to save the stun breaker for long mezzes when solo guarding a node. Any further hostility would be childish of me. Many of the players will go solely for the hostility, and some others would do both. Only the rest (which are few) are truly able to criticize objectively.

[Rafiknoll]

It's pretty frustrating playing wz after wz with players that can't manage more than 1k dps. Not a surprise people are toxic.

 

Personally I am just trying to be helpful when I explain to my teammates that there are pictures on the screen that are called icons. These icons are clickable, and are linked to abilities that do damage to the other team or heal allies. If you link the icons to keyboard buttons, you can then use these keys more rapidly. If you press them in the right order you will maximize your damage or healing output and be a better contributor to your team.

 

How is it suddenly about ability usage and DPS? Many toxic idiots are, in fact, those deathmatchers who deal most damage in a huttball match without considering the ball carrier or deal most damage on south without responding to calls from east, and they direct they hostility at the guard or the ball carrier who (mostly) deal less damage and think he didn't contribute enough.

I gave this example once on this thread already (maybe with less details): A DPS who dealt a total of 980k in a huttball scolding me, a tank who solely focused on the ball and killed 4 carriers (with fire) and scored 2 goals, simply because I dealt only 80k damage (I think all my kills were stuns pulls and pushes. They had 2 healers and it wasn't even an option to try and kill the ball carrier with my damage while my group deathmatches).

 

The majority of players are capable of using their abilities in combat. Some better than others but truly terrible players in this field are quite rare. Of course, even a decent player can be eventually soloed by a better player (a solo kill will always be the final conclusion when 2 DPS fight 1v1 with no help, after all) but that doesn't make him bad. It only makes him bad if this 1 player was a node guard and didn't call incs. Combat proficiency isn't the problem, short-sightedness or not caring or total lack of objective thinking is.

[Totemdancer]

It's pretty frustrating playing wz after wz with players that can't manage more than 1k dps. Not a surprise people are toxic.

 

Personally I am just trying to be helpful when I explain to my teammates that there are pictures on the screen that are called icons. These icons are clickable, and are linked to abilities that do damage to the other team or heal allies. If you link the icons to keyboard buttons, you can then use these keys more rapidly. If you press them in the right order you will maximize your damage or healing output and be a better contributor to your team.

 

It’s pretty frustrating when they can’t follow simple directions like “focus the target first”. But instead they all pick a seperate one to focus and wonder why they lose every match.

It’s not just fandoms in each game either. These can be people you’ve had on your teams for the past hour or more and they refuse to learn or listen.

It gets even more frustrating when you do 5k dps and they do 500 dps, while the other teams players do 3k dps.

[Lhancelot]

DPS tend to be ... not team players, but great at blaming other people for letting down the team.

 

But, how can they put up top damage numbers if they are guarding or not running to where the action is?

[Yeldah_]

Yep trash talk in pvp is a sad thing.

[Lhancelot]

Yep trash talk in pvp is a sad thing.

 

Some trash talk is ok, you can trash talk and be friendly with it or even do it without being profane and nasty. I don't mind when others trash talk, personally it just fuels me tbh lol.

[Zerileth]

So..... would if all communication was shut off when one enters a pvp map, including open world, discord, etc, and all pre-mades were separated? I am not talking about granked. I'm being nice here, don't get nasty. Just throwing out a suggestion. Edited September 29, 2018 by Zerileth

[AlrikFassbauer]

Since that patch pvp is no longer about the objective and is all about simply a killfest.

 

It's like that since the introduction of Arena.

Imho.

 

 

Question asked, question answered.

 

The more toxic players call it "forums PvP2 via insulting each other ... As I've said before, all who will remain from such toxic behaviour are the concreteheads. All more sensitive players - good ones and bad ones - will have left. Only concreteheads will remain - good ones and bad ones - and they are then locked in an indefinite circle of blaming each other and doing "verbal PvP", too.

They will be the only remaining core players. The concreteheads. Everyone else will have left.

 

And then, when the concreteheads are bored by their self-erected circle, they will move on. Into another game. Like locusts. destroxying everything there.

What remains will be like an empty desert / ruin area. Slowly, nature will reclaim it again, but that will take time, then.

 

But until then, the concreteheads will go on complaining that waiting times are too lo ng - without noticing that they were the ones responsible for people leaving and therefore missing from the queue. Concreteheads don't see or accept responsibility of / for their deeds. They just go on.

Edited September 29, 2018 by AlrikFassbauer

[Lhancelot]

...and they are then locked in an indefinite circle of blaming each other and doing verbal combat using the Force, too.

 

They will be the only remaining core Jedi and Sith. They shall be called The Concreteheads. Everyone else will have left.

 

And then, when The Concreteheads are bored by their self-erected circle, they will have moved on. Into another realm. Like locusts. destroying everything there, too.

 

What remains will be like an empty desert, a ruined area. Slowly, nature will reclaim it again, but that will take time, then.

 

Until then, The Concreteheads will go on complaining that waiting times are too long - without noticing that they were the ones responsible for people leaving and therefore missing from the queue.

 

The Concreteheads don't see or accept responsibility of / for their deeds. They just go on.

 

Alrik, I hope you don't mind I wanted to repost your post, and make a few artistic adjustments to your prose, I found what you wrote very poetic and powerful, deserving to be re-read with just a couple slight changes!

[mhobin]

To say is the reason for unhealthy PvP in SWTOR is like having a fear of drowning when jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge. The fall is going to kill you, not the water.

 

Could toxicity be a problem? Yeah I guess, but the years of terrible design choices by the developers are what killed PvP. Find me a healthy PvP game and I will show you a toxic player base.

[Ed-ward]

I agree with OP that "Elitist shamers are the true ruin of pvp in this game!"

 

While I think swtor has probably the best PvP system in current MMOs of this type. The root of the whole problem is low population of this game, especially of PvP. You are getting with and against the same people all over again. This allows for continual griefing, shaming, wintrading... and any form of manipulation. If there were enough players you would just move on with very little chance to meet the same berzerker again. Also, the matchmaking would work. In other games where the population is high enough, it works as you are getting matched against people of your level. Ofc there are comets that you'll occasionally meet but after would soon rise above your bracket and you'll probably not meet them (not anytime soon anyway). Here you get queued against the same teams, against the same players.

 

Solution for warzones is to get a team yourself. If you are tank, get a pocket healer and vice versa.

I have noticed that the odds are against you when you play warzones solo and tehre is a premade in the queue. Let's say there are two teams, 16 players total. There is a 4-man premade in queue. So your odds of getting against the premade are twice as high as getting with it. (As you have 4 slots open in the team with the premade and 8 slots open in the opposing team). In other words you'll be matched against premade two times out of three.

 

Team ranked is the most fair and you'll be generally opposed by these tactics:

- Griefing, shaming (preferably on fleet chat), whispers ranging from insults, through opinions about your family members, wishes of ill health of varying painfulness and prolonged suffering, up to suicide suggestions and death threats - all the best from cyber bullying.

- In queue, there are only teams of players that play well, play together for some time and their cohesion and cooperation is much higher level than yours. After losing to them, you are typically laughed at with a spicy combination from the griefing menu. These teams often pray on mat farmers and when a team that can actually defeat them queues, they stop.

- You have serious tryhards in queue. These guys will farm you and anybody else and they will actually go on alts with no or very low rating to destroy your rating (in general, smurfs). If they lose, well, you don't get much since you were against low rated characters, and if they win you get a LOT of rating down. As you can imagine, this leads to lot of queue dodgin, alt-tracking and queueing in specific times. Maybe account-wide rating could solve this but it would introduce another set of problems and I think they would just queue from different accounts.

 

Solo ranked

This is the signature of this game's PvP imo. Getting queued with seemingly random people and being rated for the whole team's performance. Wintrading in this mode is rampant and so is every form of cyber bullying. Unfortunately this is the mode most people without a team go in. And since cyber bullying works in most cases, the only ones who stay are the same people, or individuals with exceptionally thick hides. Griefing leads to poor queue numbers which in turn lead to same people playing against each other and any outsider has a very hard job of staying. Unfortunately there is not going to be a turn around as any new influx of players will be griefed into oblivion within weeks and thus it will be only tempoorary.

 

Honestly, if you want a fair PvP, go play some other game. PvP is swtor is toxic and about wintrading on higher tiers.

 

P.S.: A nostalgic tear for the old ranked warzones days...

[Vhoss]

PvP in this game is a joke.

It's ''arena'' pvp for kids and/or other simpletons.

If you want real pvp; go to a game that has open world pvp (like LOTRO once had, untill Turbine [now Standing Stone] completely ruined it.), where you can fight Raid vs. Raid or have big open brawls.

Now on SF you have west-coast trash who's mommy told them they are a special little boy/girl one time too many, being very toxic; shaming/naming ect. while running around like complete and utter morons, thinking that everyone logged in, because they are playing (I mean; omg.... lol!).

I've played on every server and I recognize the type even some names from former; Bastion, Begeren and Harbinger

I mainly played there sometimes, just to have a laugh (It was a miracle when you completed a FP/WZ with your original group, not to mention finish it at all. Within 30 sec's they were at eachother's throats, it was hilarious).

I could go on..... but... meh.

My humble advice;

for Granked: find a team , people you can rely on and can ''train'' with.

for Solo Ranked: take it as it comes and laugh at the toxic halfwits.

 

I've played many games and this one on the side, so in that sense; You think this is toxic? You should've seen World of Tanks at it's prime.

These are just prissy little princesses, throwing hissy fits, they're a joke and somewhat adorable at best.

 

It's PvP: you win... you lose... learn to accept that, but always try to get the win.

o/

 

p.s one thing the new movies got right: the swtor pvp player base embodied by Kylo Ren ''Throwing more tantrums, then an emo-boy who can't find his make-up'' ~ Cinemasins.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Vhoss

[RikuvonDrake]

In a recent Bad feeling podcast interview with Musco and two of the developers for partly the PvP side of things, they said that the ranked/unranked toxicity was a problem and that you should always report it if people are insulting you or behaving aggressively towards you. However, if during multiple games on ranked you find that multiple different people are complaining about your lack of impact or contribution in the game, you might want to consider playing more regular warzones. According to them, ranked warzones are meant as the endgame of PvP, and although they cannot control who queues for it, they want it to be a more experienced pvp player base.

 

I wrote down the notes and linked the podcast somewhere on reddit, you can find it there I am sure.

[Lhancelot]

In a recent Bad feeling podcast interview with Musco and two of the developers for partly the PvP side of things, they said that the ranked/unranked toxicity was a problem and that you should always report it if people are insulting you or behaving aggressively towards you. However, if during multiple games on ranked you find that multiple different people are complaining about your lack of impact or contribution in the game, you might want to consider playing more regular warzones. According to them, ranked warzones are meant as the endgame of PvP, and although they cannot control who queues for it, they want it to be a more experienced pvp player base.

 

I wrote down the notes and linked the podcast somewhere on reddit, you can find it there I am sure.

 

If they want people to respectfully play ranked then they need to change the way you gain ELO in ranked. When one player can cost one game, it's fairly monumental to the rest of the team. When others are relying on one more game to get them the ELO they need for a specific tier they are aiming for, it's hard for most players to lose it due to awful gameplay on behalf of a stranger and then turn around and nonchalantly say, "gg mate just try harder next time! 8)". This aint happening. Ever.

 

Make the ranked format grant points by wins/losses, and that will eliminate a lot of the toxicity. If people have a concrete structured way to gain rating and it isn't so reliant on RNG people will not be so emotional when someone throws a match, plays like an idiot, drops out of the match, goes AFK during the match, etc. etc. All of these RNG factors make ranked stressful and causes toxicity.

 

When I say do wins/losses for points here's what I mean. For a win give 5 points, for a loss give 1 point. These points go towards a specific number of points needed for bronze which could be 500 points total needed. Silver could be 750, and gold 1000. If players decide to AFK, drop matches, throw matches, troll matches at least the other 3 on their team know they get 1 point regardless of the outcome.

 

As it stands now, if one troll ruins one match, that can blow up someone's ELO significantly and this is why people have emotional outbursts. The present system of "ELO" relies far too heavily on RNG which is ridiculous - you can't have so many variables that decide what your ELO is in a serious contested PVP game.

 

Also with a lack of monitoring regarding the ranked games, far too many people cheat the system, another added facet to your ELO being decided by RNG.

 

The present ELO system is bad and it just needs scrapped for a wins/loss point system for ranked rewards.

[BradTheImpaler]

it's hard for most players to lose it due to awful gameplay on behalf of a stranger and then turn around and nonchalantly say, "gg mate just try harder next time! 8)". This aint happening. Ever.

 

Not really. Sure, the ELO system could use some work, but saying "kill yourself" serves absolutely no purpose, and it doesn't take effort to avoid it.

 

It's your responsibility to not be toxic, whether that means silence or constructive criticism...and it's the responsibility of whoever's being criticized to learn and improve. If someone's not receptive to such criticism, then the frustration's understandable, of course...but that's rare. Unless you're dealing with people deliberately throwing, it stands to reason that they'd be open to advice on how to do better.

[ElLazarr]

Hi, (please excuse me for my english, don't hesitate to ask for clarification)

 

To answer to the first post, sometimes I like playing objectives and other times just playing deathmatch game.

But I must confess that I got salty sometimes, especially when you are trying so hard to push your team for the win and some guys just don't care or just haven't got a clue about what's going on.

 

Of course insulting them is pointless but what can you do?

In my opinion if you are playing a game it's in the purpose to have fun and also win, what's the point to go in a warzone to get farmed or loose.

When you have already sent 3 pm to explain to some guys how to positionne themselves or how they could use their CDs in a proper way and you got ignored its frustrating. Solution might be to link or give access in game to the different guide that you can find on the forum to raise awareness about the different mechanisms in PVP and even I doubt it would change anything.

For toxic player the only solution is /ignore and report no need to answer them or give them credits.

 

Toxicity is a real issue as you said in general but in my opinion it is also the results of the mechanism of the game especially in Ranked. As giving the possibility to queue only to get mats you will have different types of population going in ranked.

I wonder if it would it be hard to restrict ranked WZ to players who has at least 70-80 valor rank or calculate the average rating item and make the entrance impossible to the people with a gear under 245 ? (just an exemple).

In these situations you can assume that people would know how to play their class and are going in ranked for what it should be : competitive end game pvp.

It would also restrict the access (at least for a bit) of the bots and throwers.

 

 

El-Hazard / VirusG/ Péonexpress /Spaitourelle /Rollx / Asiular / Halfpack IG

[Darth_Advent]

However, if during multiple games on ranked you find that multiple different people are complaining about your lack of impact or contribution in the game, you might want to consider playing more regular warzones. According to them, ranked warzones are meant as the endgame of PvP, and although they cannot control who queues for it, they want it to be a more experienced pvp player base.

 

Which might mean something if they didn't so transparently rig the rewards system to incentivize people to queue for farming Unassembled Components and crafting mats regardless of skill so the participation metrics look good to some EA suit. Or if regular warzones did anything to train and prepare players for ranked PvP whatsoever. Or if win traders didn't keep their rankings and rewards despite threats of retribution to the contrary.