2019 content delayed to 2020 due to great feedback

[LordAppius]

As a player that is utter fed up with this game i can see this happening. The new awesome content for 2019 will be postponed for some reason. Probably Bioware will be visited by a space cat who will become a new meme and meow so they can't be bothered to release amazing content.

 

Preview of amazing content :

 

- kill the remaining X skytrollers that pop every X meters

- reuse and recycle the same old planets because new ppl have joined so why not

- more Cartel market content brought directly to your wallet

 

Jokes aside when you tease something you don't spat useless info like "2019 will have great things". They already promissed these countless times, but surprisingly ppl still take the bait....

Of course X whiteknights will barge here and say this is not constructive. But i gave up providing any constructive feedback since 2015, clearly swtor gave up on providing any content that was not garbadge with the release of the joke that was kotfe.

 

The new stronghold which received a new update inr ecord time. well if they can make a crap balcony and some rooms that look alike and are horrible they could also make other updates in record time, but the record time phrase is only used for their own agenda. The stronghold would have been a nice asset when 3.0 was launched but oh well. Half of it is basically recycled content from the ravagers. The beach ain't that great and the place is horrible. Still waiting for astronghold that has some use, a place where you can unlock via achievements and not by how rich you are (kinda pointless for players like me that used to craft hard mode content when that was relevant and still have millions from those days). A stronghold should be more than just a place where we shove our wallets, and the new arena will be as amazing as those features in Iokath.

Edited August 3, 2018 by LordAppius

[Kiesu]

I mean, as long as people buy this "we postponed content because of your awesome feedback!" and people don't even complain about their money continuously running on time, it's just more money for BW right? It's a great business model as long as the players feel good about themselves for just getting some nice words from devs instead of the content they actually paid for Edited August 3, 2018 by Kiesu

[Jdast]

Yoda approached me through the Force last night and told me to pass along the following:

 

"Play other games you can -- until garbage content not -- does SWTOR release."

 

If only you were force sensitive.

 

Dasty

[kodrac]

Nice click bait. You've read too much Kotaku.

[Karameck]

Complaining because Devs listen to your feedback. That’s new.

[TUXs]

Oh come on - a week delay to add features players were asking for is totally acceptable. A month delay might be a bit much, but 1-2 weeks to address our feedback isn't.

 

I do appreciate the title of the thread though - it piqued my interest enough to read it

[AscendingSky]

Complaining because Devs listen to your feedback. That’s new.

 

You just can't make some people happy. They enjoy complaining too much. And I say this as someone who has been a very vocal critic of EA's decisions with this game. Getting mad at them for finally listening to feedback on a new game feature/content for once before implementing it, for finally using the PTS again for its intended purpose, is counterproductive to say the least. Not to mention an extra week of delay is nowhere near a year of delay. OP is comparing apples to oranges.

 

Also, I think the new stronghold has plenty of use to me, thank you very much. I'm an avid decorator and I'm looking forward to a new space to work with. Just because OP doesn't care about or like strongholds doesn't mean other people aren't psyched about it.

Edited August 3, 2018 by AscendingSky

[TUXs]

You just can't make some people happy. They enjoy complaining too much. And I say this as someone who has been a very vocal critic of EA's decisions with this game. Getting mad at them for finally listening to feedback on a new game feature/content for once before implementing it, for finally using the PTS again for its intended purpose, is counterproductive to say the least. Not to mention an extra week of delay is nowhere near a year of delay. OP is comparing apples to oranges.

 

Also, I think the new stronghold has plenty of use to me, thank you very much. I'm an avid decorator and I'm looking forward to a new space to work with. Just because OP doesn't care about or like strongholds doesn't mean other people aren't psyched about it.

EXACTLY!!!!

 

I'm not even a decorator - my big excitement for the new SH isn't for my own SH, it's for what it will mean to our guild!!! We often do dueling events and have tried all sorts of PvP events as a guild, but they always sucked in that half of us needed to log onto Imp toons or half of us were on a toon we didn't want to be, just to balance things out. The way the new PvP areas work for the SH are PERFECT!!!! I can't wait to play Huttball as a guild - a friendly trash talking game of Huttball that's just FUN. I can't wait...we've got an event coming as soon as we can organize it.

[Rion_Starkiller]

"Everyone who disagrees with me is a White Knight."

[Andryah]

Getting mad at them for finally listening to feedback on a new game feature/content for once before implementing it, for finally using the PTS again for its intended purpose, is counterproductive to say the least.

 

Exactly. Keep it up folks and they will just walk away from your feedback, having an open PTS, etc. etc.

 

And the OP conflated a week delay to ---> a year delay on new content. Absurd.

 

Providing constructive feedback, even critical feedback, is one thing... creating fantasy based rants to make some kind of emotional point is simply not productive in terms of influencing the studio on anything other then to begin to distance from the players once again.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Andryah

[Kiesu]

It would be a lot easier to not be mad about delays if we didn't have sub model. It'd be a lot easier to be happy if the 2 weeks you had planned to pay to play the update wouldn't now just be 1 week

 

If we're gonna keep delaying content for a week or two as often as we are in swtor, wouldn't it be wiser to just add that week we usually end up delaying into the development time rather than have players constantly adjust their expectation times because release date is always placed too early for them to work with feedback properly.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Kiesu

[Jdast]

It would be a lot easier to not be mad about delays if we didn't have sub model. It'd be a lot easier to be happy if the 2 weeks you had planned to pay to play the update wouldn't now just 1 week

 

If we're gonna keep delaying content for a week or two as often as we are in swtor, wouldn't it be wiser to just add that week we usually end up delaying into the development time rather than have players constantly adjust their expectation times because release date is always placed too early for them to work with feedback properly.

 

My barber has a sign in his station saying, "Free Haircuts Tomorrow."

 

Think about it and apply that logic to any date they assign.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. I do give some props to Lord App for creativity. This is actually a new argument in his bi-monthly rant against the game that he continues to subsidize as if it were a charity.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Jdast

[Lhancelot]

"swtor ruined after 4.0," OP's sig.

 

Hey guys, I am going to buy cupcakes from this bakery for years, complain about how awful they taste and just keep going back to buy more and complain how awful they taste.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Lhancelot

[Andryah]

"swtor ruined after 4.0," OP's sig.

 

Hey guys, I am going to buy cupcakes from this bakery for years, complain about how awful they taste and just keep going back to buy more and complain how awful they taste.

 

You are not wrong about this.

 

I never understood the MMO player that constantly rants and complains and claims an MMO is ruined for them... yet keep on paying and playing for years.

[Kiesu]

My barber has a sign in his station saying, "Free Haircuts Tomorrow."

 

Think about it and apply that logic to any date they assign.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. I do give some props to Lord App for creativity. This is actually a new argument in his bi-monthly rant against the game that he continues to subsidize as if it were a charity.

That's why nobody has a sign anywhere in real life stating "free things tomorrow" but rather "free things [insert date here]"

[Jdast]

That's why nobody has a sign anywhere in real life stating "free things tomorrow" but rather "free things [insert date here]"

 

And how, pray tell, are we as consumers supposed to know whether the date assigned by Bioware had the extra week tacked on?

 

Dasty

[Kiesu]

And how, pray tell, are we as consumers supposed to know whether the date assigned by Bioware had the extra week tacked on?

 

Dasty

Then they would't need that extra week for development when they already used it in their normal schedule as extender. "how would we know", just by not having that date be once again moved for every other update they do... They wouldn't need the week of extra then. And if they have that extra week and didn't need it... Well, relax and refine.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Kiesu

[Jdast]

Then they would't need that extra week for development when they already used it in their normal schedule as extender. "how would we know", just by not having that date be once again moved for every other update they do... They wouldn't need the week of extra then. And if they have that extra week and didn't need it... Well, relax and refine.

 

We are never going to agree because we start from different assumptions. I think it is impossible in this context to define "normal schedule" given inherent complexities and feedback they, by definition, could not have predicted. Hence the whole raison d'etre of a PTS.

 

Given that premise, the conclusion I draw is that your recommendation results in an infinite non-falsifiable conundrum / loop. Whatever date they set internally, add a week --but we never know what that internal date is so it's impossible to measure. Ultimately, that extra built-in week becomes baked into the cake. Perhaps, more importantly, they themselves have an inherently difficult time coming up with a precise "normally scheduled" release date given aforementioned complexities.

 

In terms of our ability to evaluate their success or failure, well: If they meet the target date, you can claim it is because they padded it with an extra week to refine. If they do not, you can claim they did not. This follows logically since we never know what internal dates they set and only know the public ones.

 

Let's just agree to disagree and go back to making fun of Lord App for subsidizing a game since 2015 that he thinks is garbage.

 

All good, hugs,

 

Dasty

Edited August 3, 2018 by Jdast

[xordevoreaux]

Exactly. Keep it up folks and they will just walk away from your feedback, having an open PTS, etc. etc.

 

And the OP conflated a week delay to ---> a year delay on new content. Absurd.

 

Providing constructive feedback, even critical feedback, is one thing... creating fantasy based rants to make some kind of emotional point is simply not productive in terms of influencing the studio on anything other then to begin to distance from the players once again.

 

Exactly. Won't take that many more posts like this from the OP before people see his name next to a thread with 0 replies and it stays 0 replies because we know better than to read it.

Edited August 3, 2018 by xordevoreaux

[TheGreatHambino]

Exactly. Keep it up folks and they will just walk away from your feedback, having an open PTS, etc. etc.

 

You mean like they've done for the past 3 - 4 years?

 

Look, I think OP is way off base, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The devs have a LONG history of abandoning their renewed focus and efforts (Class Representatives, anyone?). Harvey Keitel had a great line to Vincent and Jules in Pulp Fiction that absolutely applies here.

[Kiesu]

We are never going to agree because we start from different assumptions. I think it is impossible in this context to define "normal schedule" given inherent complexities and feedback they, by definition, could not have predicted. Hence the whole raison d'etre of a PTS.

 

Given that premise, the conclusion I draw is that your recommendation results in an infinite non-falsifiable conundrum / loop. Whatever date they set internally, add a week --but we never know what that internal date is so it's impossible to measure. Ultimately, that extra built-in week becomes baked into the cake. Perhaps, more importantly, they themselves have an inherently difficult time coming up with a precise "normally scheduled" release date given aforementioned complexities.

 

In terms of our ability to evaluate their success or failure, well: If they meet the target date, you can claim it is because they padded it with an extra week to refine. If they do not, you can claim they did not. This follows logically since we never know what internal dates they set and only know the public ones.

 

Let's just agree to disagree and go back to making fun of Lord App for subsidizing a game since 2015 that he thinks is garbage.

 

All good, hugs,

 

Dasty

Nah. There will always be extensions in all games. But SWTOR is one of the ongoing games I have played with the most separate instances of extended updates I've ever seen. There must be a reason. I'm going to draw my conclusion of the reason being their inability to foresee effects of feedback. This was blatantly obvious while they were doing the Gods from the Machine OPS, when they extended the release of every boss due to "feedback", it really looked to me like they didn't even think they might have to react to any feedback.

 

Most game companies have a time period for testing, and then they have a time period to work on that testing feedback, and then they release. SWTOR just has testing and release back to back. Makes sense it is the inability to work on feedback in time if it's always the reason for extensions. So why haven't they learned from this by now? Who knows.

 

If this would be a buy-to-play game I would have no complaints. But when I'm paying for every day of play, and they cut that time i have to play from that I have already payed, it becomes an issue.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Kiesu

[AshenK]

Nah. There will always be extensions in all games. But SWTOR is one of the ongoing games I have played with the most separate instances of extended updates I've ever seen. There must be a reason. I'm going to draw my conclusion of the reason being their inability to foresee effects of feedback. This was blatantly obvious while they were doing the Gods from the Machine OPS, when they extended the release of every boss due to "feedback", it really looked to me like they didn't even think they might have to react to any feedback.

 

Most game companies have a time period for testing, and then they have a time period to work on that testing feedback, and then they release. SWTOR just has testing and release back to back. Makes sense it is the inability to work on feedback in time if it's always the reason for extensions. So why haven't they learned from this by now? Who knows.

 

If this would be a buy-to-play game I would have no complaints. But when I'm paying for every day of play, and they cut that time i have to play from that I have already payed, it becomes an issue.

I think it's just due to them being lazy. And it's not the first time we've seen it in this game.

 

And right now this game is just not worth the money people are paying. Other games like FFXIV could have a few dungeons and a raid come out in the time it takes Bioware to do a patch that fixes a daily quest.

[Jdast]

Nah. There will always be extensions in all games. But SWTOR is one of the ongoing games I have played with the most separate instances of extended updates I've ever seen. There must be a reason. I'm going to draw my conclusion of the reason being their inability to foresee effects of feedback. This was blatantly obvious while they were doing the Gods from the Machine OPS, when they extended the release of every boss due to "feedback", it really looked to me like they didn't even think they might have to react to any feedback.

 

Most game companies have a time period for testing, and then they have a time period to work on that testing feedback, and then they release. SWTOR just has testing and release back to back. Makes sense it is the inability to work on feedback in time if it's always the reason for extensions. So why haven't they learned from this by now? Who knows.

 

If this would be a buy-to-play game I would have no complaints. But when I'm paying for every day of play, and they cut that time i have to play from that I have already payed, it becomes an issue.

 

Well, the good news is there is an easy solution to their incompetence, which you have internalized!

 

I'm actually not being tongue-in-cheek here, but somewhat serious. If you insist on scheduling game time related to a patch, look at the announcement date and add two weeks before making any type of commitment. Frankly, I do that with virtually major release / patch any for any game. I still recall vividly standing in line in the freezing cold in January 2007 waiting for Best Buy to open at Midnight in Manhattan (so no warm car to wait in) to pick up my copy of Burning Crusade. I got home, fired it up, and sat with 3 gazillion others in a lag-fest at the gate. Never made that mistake again (though fortunately, with downloads now, don't have to).

 

But as you said, "who knows?" Ergo, if the constant is delay due to incompetence (or, frankly, any reason) then it is reasonable to focus on what you can vary -- which is your schedule and how you respond / react. If you have been burned so many times by scheduling around announced dates, don't schedule around announced dates. It's not like anyone here is competing for world firsts.

 

Alternatively, you can ask Keith and Eric, "Hey does this patch release date include some refining time?" I don't imagine you would get much of a satisfactory response. What are they supposed to say, "No, we did no internal testing so add a couple weeks?"

 

TL-DR: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me 10 billion times, shame on me.

 

Dasty

Edited August 3, 2018 by Jdast

[PennyAnn]

Nah. There will always be extensions in all games. But SWTOR is one of the ongoing games I have played with the most separate instances of extended updates I've ever seen. There must be a reason. I'm going to draw my conclusion of the reason being their inability to foresee effects of feedback. This was blatantly obvious while they were doing the Gods from the Machine OPS, when they extended the release of every boss due to "feedback", it really looked to me like they didn't even think they might have to react to any feedback.

 

Most game companies have a time period for testing, and then they have a time period to work on that testing feedback, and then they release. SWTOR just has testing and release back to back. Makes sense it is the inability to work on feedback in time if it's always the reason for extensions. So why haven't they learned from this by now? Who knows.

 

If this would be a buy-to-play game I would have no complaints. But when I'm paying for every day of play, and they cut that time i have to play from that I have already payed, it becomes an issue.

 

I agree that all games will have development delays from time to time, and bugs or issues remain even after those delays are taken to test or refine the code. That's not unique to SWTOR. I also agree that SWTOR in it's history has seen more patches delayed than other games typically do, but I don't remember delays of more than a week or two, or a time period that was so significant as to really feel like I was being ripped off over it.

 

It would be a much bigger issue for me personally if it wasn't like... 50 cents a day (or less, depending on how much time you pay for at once). I haven't really touched this game for months, but had paid for a significant amount of time ahead simply because that's how I've been doing it for almost 7 years. Once that time is up, I may change to a month to month subscription just so that I can come and go like others do... but until this year I had never felt that need. At the end of the day, it's just not that much money so I don't begrudge them a delay here and there. At least not over what I pay for the game...

 

I think the really tough part is the effect it has on morale when they constantly delay content. SWTOR is so very content starved right now that the morale factor is I think the biggest down side to delays. I mean, they've been putting buggy patches in the game just about every single cycle (I can't remember a bug free one in the history of my playing this game at least) - so even when they say they are delaying to squash bugs, it's really just to squash some of the biggest ones, but you'll still likely see a follow up patch to fix broken stuff accompanied by tons of forum threads about issues that are sometimes fixed and sometimes not.

 

Your points about their development style are accurate also, from where I sit. Especially this: "it really looked to me like they didn't even think they might have to react to any feedback". When I think about it, it looks like that to me, too.

 

Honestly, there are just too many sectors of the player population that are either waiting on "their" patch to finally go in to the game, or the rest who are waiting for the patch to be over with so they can start waiting in earnest for the patch for their own style of content and hope it doesn't take 6 months or a year to go from one to the other.

 

There are a lot of reasons to be dissatisfied with this game, and plenty of justifications to quit paying for it. But if you don't, that's entirely on you and complaining about the developers because you continue to pay a subscription for their game is a farce.

 

.

[Kiesu]

Well, the good news is there is an easy solution to their incompetence, which you have internalized!

 

I'm actually not being tongue-in-cheek here, but somewhat serious. If you insist on scheduling game time related to a patch, look at the announcement date and add two weeks before making any type of commitment. Frankly, I do that with virtually major release / patch any for any game. I still recall vividly standing in line in the freezing cold in January 2007 waiting for Best Buy to open at Midnight in Manhattan (so no warm car to wait in) to pick up my copy of Burning Crusade. I got home, fired it up, and sat with 3 gazillion others in a lag-fest at the gate. Never made that mistake again (though fortunately, with downloads now, don't have to).

 

But as you said, "who knows?" Ergo, if the constant is delay due to incompetence (or, frankly, any reason) then it is reasonable to focus on what you can vary -- which is your schedule and how you respond / react. If you have been burned so many times by scheduling around announced dates, don't schedule around announced dates. It's not like anyone here is competing for world firsts.

 

Alternatively, you can ask Keith and Eric, "Hey does this patch release date include some refining time?" I don't imagine you would get much of a satisfactory response. What are they supposed to say, "No, we did no internal testing so add a couple weeks?"

 

Tl-DR: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me 10 billion times, shame on me.

 

Dasty

So basically you're saying it's perfectly ok for companies to keep extending their development cycles and it's the consumers duty to "fix" their promised date on their own? Yes, we truly do completely disagree on this.