The Status of SWTOR on Twitch

[TUXs]

People here just don't get even the very basics of statistics. That is sad. What do they teach in schools nowadays? Creative free dance? :-)

Right?! It blows my mind that people are ignorant enough to make statements like that...I mean seriously...this is as basic as it gets.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I know it may be a surprise to the younger generation, but there is alot of people that dont do Twitch.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

And soon the kids go back to school...and shortly after that, people are spending the early winter months with their families for the holidays...right? WoW is just lucky they don't need to deal with seasons like SWTOR does.

 

I agree the "summer" excuse is lame, and the numbers seem down. I just dont agree about Twitch being a qualifier. Alot of 30+ people dont bother with twitch.

[TUXs]

I agree the "summer" excuse is lame, and the numbers seem down. I just dont agree about Twitch being a qualifier. Alot of 30+ people dont bother with twitch.

So...why doesn't that also correlate to W0W's numbers? You think our player base is that different? Is W0W a kids game?

[fishpeople]

I agree the "summer" excuse is lame, and the numbers seem down. I just dont agree about Twitch being a qualifier. Alot of 30+ people dont bother with twitch.

 

It shows the Twitch community have little interest in SWTOR compared to WoW.

[Khaleg]

Khaleg,

 

I understand statistics quite well. The issue we are raising is that for a story driven MMORPG, which doesn't have a competitive e-sport PvP aspect to it, the numbers are not surprising.

 

I have no particular desire to watch someone on Twitch romance Theron Shan.

 

Dasty

 

That is nonsense. People are watching booby streamers no matter what they play or even what they do at all (ASMR bs for instance, but with nice boo.... lol!).

On the other hand there are also SWTOR streams from people with not a single clue about the game who are just streaming story play, but with quite some viewersm real noobs, but not very many.

Your assumptions just don't add up. It's a sad fact that our beloved game is not that popular because of the reasons I've already mentioned above, mainly about Bioware messing it up from start due to a total lack of any experience with MMORPGs.

Of course SWTOR could never compete in absolute numbers with WoW, or even rather stupid games for Joe Average like Fortnite BR but the relative numbers are already telling, if we want it to be true or not.

And without EA putting effort and money back into this game and just continuing ripping off naive people with the CM "microtransaction" business it will stay that way, especially with that maybe 10 man skeleton crew in Ausitn "working" on SWTOR.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Khaleg

[Khaleg]

This is why:

 

1. Nobody wants to see loading screens when you play

2. ESO and WoW have open worlds, you can walk from one side to the other, with SWTOR you have smaller instanced planets so the population is dead on some planets

3. The fleet is somewhere to stand around, nothing much happens on it. People don't wanna see you stand around when you're queuing for the dead PVP pops. You can't even duel on fleet either

4. Nobody wants to watch other people play story in an MMO

5. Combat system is outdated

6. Lack of updates to the game compared to ESO and WoW

7. No sense of community, you can play the game start to finish without talking to anyone (same with the other two I guess)

8. Lack of player events for SWTOR. Yes we get the repeatable dev made events, but I'm talking about actual players doing events

9. Zero open world PVP

10. PVP is a mess with all the stuns and casting while jumping around like a chicken

 

There's just less to do in this game.

 

I agree to most of this.

[Jdast]

Right?! It blows my mind that people are ignorant enough to make statements like that...I mean seriously...this is as basic as it gets.

 

Wrong. What is basic in statistics is to compare similar units of analysis.

 

Khaleg and I will just agree to disagree that the lack of e-sport PvP in SWTOR and the story-driven nature of this game make the two games fundamentally non-comparable with respect to Twitch.

 

As it turns out, I happen to agree with many of the problems you, Khaleg, and pretty much everyone else have identified.

 

My only point is that Twitch is a pretty poor indicator given non-comparabillity.

 

Dasty

[TUXs]

Wrong. What is basic in statistics is to compare similar units of analysis.

 

Khaleg and I will just agree to disagree that the lack of e-sport PvP in SWTOR and the story-driven nature of this game make the two games fundamentally non-comparable with respect to Twitch.

 

As it turns out, I happen to agree with many of the problems you, Khaleg, and pretty much everyone else have identified.

 

My only point is that Twitch is a pretty poor indicator given non-comparabillity.

 

Dasty

I guess I don't quite understand why you think the games are so non-comparable? Is your rational "because W0W does more"? Or is it that "W0W is more fun to watch"? Or is it that story isn't that interesting? I'm just trying to understand why you think it's not a reasonable comparison, given that they're both MMOs.

[Rrusalka]

Summer is as good a target to place blame as anything. It is much shorter these days and kids are already heading back to school. Being that it will be three months since the last release in May. If the next update is still on track for next week that is. Amazingly they have missed making a summer release. It was close though Early July vs Early August. I even understand why they held it back and applaud them for listening to feedback.

 

We can blame fall next maybe even winter depending on what gets pushed back. The standard release has been every two months with the latest coming in at three. So hopefully by October or November the next story that is the lead in to the new story direction will be ready. Then some time in the New Year this three year saga of KotFE/ET will finally end.

 

Hopefully by then they will stop teasing the community buzz word that is "Expansion" around. It does get the endorphins pumping and even gaming sites picked it up and ran with it this time. That's two summers they've teased the word now I really hope we're not heading for a third.

[TrixxieTriss]

I agree the "summer" excuse is lame, and the numbers seem down. I just dont agree about Twitch being a qualifier. Alot of 30+ people dont bother with twitch.

 

Agreed +1 for you and Tux

[Vember]

I tried playing WoW this weekend and it was godawful. I can get past the graphics and all the generic qualities of the game, but the controls...what the hell? If you let off the right mouse button while running you stop dead in your tracks....makes trying to fight a nightmare, since I'm used to every other game having standard mouselook controls.

 

Couldn't even make it out of the starter zone.

[TUXs]

Summer is as good a target to place blame as anything.

Are you suggesting that W0W doesn't have to deal with summer?? I don't understand how summer factors into this in any way at all...

[TrixxieTriss]

Are you suggesting that W0W doesn't have to deal with summer?? I don't understand how summer factors into this in any way at all...

 

Nah, WoW is special and players step into another dimension that has no outside influences when it comes to population.

Only swtor is affected by seasons, or sun, or snow or school or work or the boogie man

[Manjaca]

Its so Easy.

 

If we have more Players in the Game then we have more People on the Fleet!

If we have more Players in the Game then we have more active People on the Forum!

If we have more People watching Twitch then we have more Players in the Game (Overall Population)!

 

Some of us watch Twitch some not. Myself are not the daily viewer of Twitch but sometimes i watch Twitch. Twitch is a good indicator how much popluar a game is nowadays! And if a game is popular you have more Players in the Game. Like it or like it not.

Compared to the old days of SWTOR we had more Streamers and more Viewers. Like Twitch or dont Like it. Numbers dont lie. The Game is at the Moment not Healty. And Twitch is a Indicator of this Observation.

 

If i look on the Twitch Streamers i see rarely Kids Streaming. Mostly Adult People stream WOW or SWTOR. Watching Twitch has nothing to do with your Age. Most People Play the Game more then they watch Twitch. But where is the Problem if People watch a Little bit Twitch? Why so Agressive?

 

And im 30+ Years old, so its a litte to late for me to go to School! And i know a Time where Computers and Mobile Phones was Rare for the Majority of People.

 

And i Agree with many others that the Lack of Content in the Last 3 Years bring us down to this Status of the Game that we now have. Not very Healty.

 

On Some Servers we have Problems to fill up Hardmode Raiding Groups. We dont have enaugh Players to teach the new Players Hardmode Raiding. PVP and Flashpoint HM/Tactical Queues are slow. Mid PVP is nearly dead.

 

If you Play out of Prime Time this Problems are more. You know this Problem TrixxieTriss.

 

If you talk about Story with Story Players. Most of them talk with you about the old Story. They dont want to talk about KOTFE/KOTET because...... And some of them say: "Hey other MMOs give me more and better and frequently Story then SWTOR and they give me the possibility to do Group Playing". And not mostly 3+ years old Group Content or Story Group Content. Most of them want new explorable Planets. 3+ Years of not new explorable Plantets hurt this Game.

 

Yes this are not Problems of the Fanatic Agressive Space Barbie Players. Because for them all other Players are Toxic. What are you doing when you see other Players in the Game. Do you Shut Down SWTOR? Possible you Shut Down your Computer?

Someday These Players will have they own Simulator called: SWTOR!

[Manjaca]

Agreed +1 for you and Tux

 

Agreed

 

Only SWTOR have Summer. Sometimes i think all Players live on Tatooine.

[Rrusalka]

Are you suggesting that W0W doesn't have to deal with summer?? I don't understand how summer factors into this in any way at all...

 

Oh they do but they and other MMO's have learned to make use of seasons and holidays. Heck even FPS games manage to capitalize on these periods of time. On the upside we do get the same old events on a per week basis now. This in turn makes the lack of updates to said handful of events even more noticeable.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

So...why doesn't that also correlate to W0W's numbers? You think our player base is that different? Is W0W a kids game?

 

No what I am saying is that with WoWs population, you will have overall more twitch streamers, but I dont think twitch is a population qualifier overall. And yes, overall think the majority of players in SWtor is older then WoW players. Especially now with the lack of content updates. Chances are the people that will stick with it are serious SW fans that were raised on the original movies.

 

not sure why you seem to be getting in a huff, I was agreeing with you.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

It shows the Twitch community have little interest in SWTOR compared to WoW.

 

That's true, never disagreed with that statement, just that it can be used as a population measuring device.

[TUXs]

Oh they do but they and other MMO's have learned to make use of seasons and holidays. Heck even FPS games manage to capitalize on these periods of time. On the upside we do get the same old events on a per week basis now. This in turn makes the lack of updates to said handful of events even more noticeable.

So the only reason for our lower views is that these darn Devs just don't know how to make use of the summer months and holiday seasons?

 

This is simply not true my friend...the reason our views are so low is simple...this game is vastly less popular. Nobody seems to give a **** about SWTOR, yet plenty of people watch others play W0W...despite the season we're in.

[TUXs]

No what I am saying is that with WoWs population, you will have overall more twitch streamers, but I dont think twitch is a population qualifier overall. And yes, overall think the majority of players in SWtor is older then WoW players. Especially now with the lack of content updates. Chances are the people that will stick with it are serious SW fans that were raised on the original movies.

 

not sure why you seem to be getting in a huff, I was agreeing with you.

I agree with everything you've said above...it makes the most sense. I wasn't trying to use Twitch as a qualifier for anything - I just wanted to point out that W0W experiences the exact same seasons we do and that, like you say, W0W simply has that many more streamers - which absolutely translates back to a much larger player base simply because of the variance in numbers. It doesn't necessarily say anything else though.

[Rrusalka]

If you're picturing me carrying a banner for this game you are quite mistaken. I was mostly poking fun at the lack of updates we have. In comparison to these other games that actually get regular releases.

 

If this game has active streamers they probably dried up in May. They would have had what Copero, Nathema and the final Op's boss to stream for. I can't see them coming back for the Empire and Republic running across a beach hand in hand. Maybe in two to three months with the next story update some will return.

[TUXs]

If you're picturing me carrying a banner for this game you are quite mistaken. I was mostly poking fun at the lack of updates we have. In comparison to these other games that actually get regular releases.

 

If this game has active streamers they probably dried up in May. They would have had what Copero, Nathema and the final Op's boss to stream for. I can't see them coming back for the Empire and Republic running across a beach hand in hand. Maybe in two to three months with the next story update some will return.

We're in agreement. I'd be curious to see what SWTORs streams look like after an update though...that tells me more about interest than where we currently are.

[TrixxieTriss]

So the only reason for our lower views is that these darn Devs just don't know how to make use of the summer months and holiday seasons?

 

This is simply not true my friend...the reason our views are so low is simple...this game is vastly less popular. Nobody seems to give a **** about SWTOR, yet plenty of people watch others play W0W...despite the season we're in.

 

Let me add some support here.

 

Don’t forget that WoW is also a real “world wide game” that has players in APAC (cause it’s got real APAC servers) and players from other regions.

It’s not a game that says its world wide (swtor), but only caters to EU and North American player’s timezones, server locations and lag issues. Which limits how many people are online during the time the OP decided to check.

Less and less people care about swtor because Bioware only cater to a select geographical audience and **** everyone else over.

You certainly won’t get many people in APAC, SE and Central Asia watching swtor on twitch when most of them can’t play anymore. Even less North and South Americans play or care since they moved the location of both US servers to the east coast.

But you will get people from those regions watching WoW on twitch because they can actually play it too.

It’s simple.

WoW is world wide with a 24/7 audience

Swtor is US east coast and EU and has a very restricted audience

So of course WoW will always have a **** load more people watching it and that is why using WoW or even twitch to measure swtor activity or health against it, is fundamentally flawed.

Edited July 30, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[PennyAnn]

I've watched SWTOR streams. And let me tell you something - they are all pretty boring. Especially the "influencer" streams... watching "influencer" streamers wiping on story mode operations is not interesting at all, but that's usually what you get! It's embarassing! Some of those guys are the worst examples of game play and I'm not sure how they got to be influencers, but it's just bad.

 

I enjoy watching WoW dungeon invitational, or other "events". Just enjoyed the heck out of the Overwatch League Finals. But the difference is that those have a competition element to them. Anything that lends itself to more "esports" type content is more fun/easy to watch, honestly. SWTOR once talked about doing a speed run challenge, but it never happened. Events around operations, master mode flashpoints, eternal championship, or PvP would be fun to watch I imagine (as long as the players were decent)... but SWTOR just doesn't do that kind of stuff.

 

I enjoy watching high end raids, when someone from Failure/It's Lit streams or the like, it's usually interesting. But that kinda thing isn't something that happens often, much less daily.

 

So I'd have to say I agree: Twitch viewership is not a great measure of anything except the fact that we all already know: SWTOR has fewer players and a shrinking community. You guys really do not have to keep pointing out the ways that this is true. It's borderline ridiculous, honestly. The dead horse is well and truly beaten. Promise!

 

I'm with Dasty - I don't really care to watch someone stream their Theron Shan or Arcann romances. I have better ways to spend those 3 and a half minutes. Haters get your own!

 

.

Edited July 30, 2018 by PennyAnn