Outrageous Respec Cost

[Ronamo]

The only problem is that you're considering 50,000 credits as a large number.

 

If you're choosing to look at it in WoW terms, that's more like 50 gold. Or 5000 silver. Or...get this! 50,000 copper!

 

It's a known and normal psychological facet of humanity that we don't parse large numbers well. It's much easier to understand how long "5 football fields" is for anybody familiar with a football field than 500 yards, or 1,500 feet. Or "1/4 mile" instead of "1320 feet."

[QDMcGraw]

Sorry, my irony detector runs on lots of coffee, and it hasn't been properly charged this morning

 

I feel ya *fistbump*. I need more Dew. Can't stand coffee, I've tried very hard to be a coffee drinker, but I just can't stand the taste. The smell of it brewing it awesome, though!

[Dinn]

Has anyone ever thought that getting people to stick to a spec and class in all methods of the games forces the player base to learn that class and spec before the duel spec fairy comes.

 

Frankly I'm glad for this instead of a bunch of min maxing half wits just applying the best spec to the job without learning how to cope. I'd like to think as a healing IA I've learned lots of what I can and cannot do within my spec be it in pvp, pve or questing.

 

Learning your class in a one spec and telling someone else who took another spec is not a bad thing.

 

I am sorry but your argument make no sense. How can some learn a class better by only sticking to one spec than by experimenting with all possible combinations? Why become an expert on something that is not optimal?

 

I am sorry if you have had a bad experience with other people buggin you about changing your spec, but if two people cant have an intelligent conversation about what spec is better and understand each other position that is the fault of the two people and not of how the game is made.

 

Finding the max min and being able to cope with and excute is a challenge of mind and skill. Something more games should have. I wish certain success in this game required an understanding of both.

[Kaphik]

The only problem is that you're considering 50,000 credits as a large number.

 

If you're choosing to look at it in WoW terms, that's more like 50 gold. Or 5000 silver. Or...get this! 50,000 copper!

 

It's a known and normal psychological facet of humanity that we don't parse large numbers well. It's much easier to understand how long "5 football fields" is for anybody familiar with a football field than 500 yards, or 1,500 feet. Or "1/4 mile" instead of "1320 feet."

 

 

So, uh, how many quests have you done that net you 50,000 credits after completion?

[alkanterah]

Despite it's intentions, this is the only route for those of us who like switching specs. Can't really complain about the costs as that's the intended mechanic for how it's supposed to be used but for those of us too stubborn to care are going to have to pony up for it.

 

I do every single quest, did slicing (still do), and sell everything I can on the GTN. I switch for when I do flashpoints, then back for when I'm not.

[QDMcGraw]

I am sorry but your argument make no sense. How can some learn a class better by only sticking to one spec than by experimenting with all possible combinations? Why become an expert on something that is not optimal?

 

I am sorry if you have had a bad experience with other people buggin you about changing your spec, but if two people cant have an intelligent conversation about what spec is better and understand each other position that is the fault of the two people and not of how the game is made.

 

Finding the max min and being able to cope with and excute is a challenge of mind and skill. Something more games should have. I wish certain success in this game required an understanding of both.

 

The WoW mindset of 'optimal spec' is what's choking the life of out MMO's. If people aren't specced the 'proper way' whith so many points in certain places they're inherently broken is just asinine.

 

It occurs to me if I want an ability because it looks cool for whatever reason, I shouldn't be lambasted for my choice. It's called 'elitism' and there's really no reason for anyone else to ever tell me what my spec should be or how I should play the game.

[unclekaula]

For those of you who have not gotten to my point at respec cost let me tell you the cost structure.

 

1st time: free

2nd: 1800 cred

3rd: 8300

4th: 25000

5th: 50000

 

if I have to respec again it would cost 50k to do so. When the loading screen suggest I try out different specs through experimentation that is exactly what I did. I also have been switching between healing and dps just to make a heroic grp work for my guild.

 

Just to get a sense of how much 50k is, I would have to do 10 warzone matches just to be able to pay for a respec.

 

 

And? Stop trying to dual spec or have two chars. If you dont want to spend the money/time then find another game or wait till they cater to the whiners and implement it.

[Demontang]

50k credits is about 1/4 of a level doing normal quests and selling junk/green items when you're in your late 20's/early 30's. That's with training and doing missions (non-slicing). It's not a prohibitive cost really when you look at the later levels. Anyone constantly respeccing in their teens and early 20's is wasting (or anytime really) is just wasting credits trying to force dual-speccing or triple-speccing into the game, but in your early teens or 20's, honestly, what skills are you cycling around? You only have 10-15 points to move about....lol.

[Tenetke]

And what happens in a game that is new, like this one, where people are trying out classes for the first time, like this one, and they want to figure out which spec they like best because they have not had any chance to try out any of the specs?

 

Yep, that was one heck of a run-on sentence! Still, I believe respec costs should be high at 50, but much lower while leveling up so people can try out the other specs. Especially if they want to see if tanking or healing is for them.

 

It's already happening, people stop trying out new stuff. RIght now it's prohibitive to try new things so that you will be forced to reroll. Sometimes when looking at what the game has become I can't believe this is Bioware. I keep thinking surely this isn't the company I have been a fan of since Baldur's Gate.

 

Still this isn't Blizzard, and BW has never stated they wanted any player to be able to play with friends. The game is built around picking a role and sticking to it. Even if you hate it, even if you don't want to. If you don't like it, then the way the game is set up is to reroll. Personally I don't agree, but I'm still playing so what does that say? Well I guess all it really says is that I have a free month, but whatever.

 

The WoW mindset of 'optimal spec' is what's choking the life of out MMO's. If people aren't specced the 'proper way' whith so many points in certain places they're inherently broken is just asinine.

 

It occurs to me if I want an ability because it looks cool for whatever reason, I shouldn't be lambasted for my choice. It's called 'elitism' and there's really no reason for anyone else to ever tell me what my spec should be or how I should play the game

 

LOL no, and I wish people would actually put thought into a post before clicking the button. You think that needing a proper spec is the reason mmos are going down this path. I think the better question is "why is an optimal spec required?" Yet do you think that when Bioware is making fp/operations they sit down and go "o.k. we need to make it so that if a group chooses talents at random they can still beat it"? No, they don't. The game is designed around having optimal specs. You can not blame players for doing what the game is designed around.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Tenetke

[Truga]

It's already happening, people stop trying out new stuff. RIght now it's prohibitive to try new things so that you will be forced to reroll. Sometimes when looking at what the game has become I can't believe this is Bioware. I keep thinking surely this isn't the company I have been a fan of since Baldur's Gate.

 

Because in BG, you had so many respecs available.

[Dinn]

The WoW mindset of 'optimal spec' is what's choking the life of out MMO's. If people aren't specced the 'proper way' whith so many points in certain places they're inherently broken is just asinine.

 

It occurs to me if I want an ability because it looks cool for whatever reason, I shouldn't be lambasted for my choice. It's called 'elitism' and there's really no reason for anyone else to ever tell me what my spec should be or how I should play the game.

 

Then do not raid in hardcore raiding guilds or expect to achieve something worth praise in pvp. You are who the dev are catering to. People who do not like challenge and want to accomplish everything. If you got into a casual raiding guild with people who do not care about progression and just want to hang out and have fun then do that, i bet you they would not complain about your spec. If you do not like being harassed about your spec and willing and able to back up your decision to people, find different people who will not ask those questions.

[Tenetke]

Because in BG, you had so many respecs available.

 

I can't tell if you are serious, or if you really can't read.

[JSykes]

agree that cost are to high.

1st. free

2nd. 300

3rd. 2k

4th. 10k

 

tried dmg to start wanted to try pvp spec and didnt like so went back to dmg and then moved to tank once i got to a high enough lvl to utilize a tank spec. I bet tons of ppl did the same thing only to loose 12300 credits just for that "let me play with my new toy feeling."

 

No, no, no. 10k is far, far to trivial and defeats the whole point. 10k is ONE quest on Voss and Corellia when you select the lock box. Respeccing has to have a Con to it's Pro. Respeccing is fine right now. It doesn't need to be nerfed to cater to whiners, the whiners just need to open their eyes and see that you don't need to respec for everything. PvP in TOR isn't super ultra epic hardcore ranked, it's herp derp at best, and if you can't find a spec in the middle of PvE Dps and PvP Dps because because the respec costs are too "expensive", enjoy spending the credits, and quit whining.

[QDMcGraw]

LOL no, and I wish people would actually put thought into a post before clicking the button. You think that needing a proper spec is the reason mmos are going down this path. I think the better question is "why is an optimal spec required?" Yet do you think that when Bioware is making fp/operations they sit down and go "o.k. we need to make it so that if a group chooses talents at random they can still beat it"? No, they don't. The game is designed around having optimal specs. You can not blame players for doing what the game is designed around.

 

if this is true, then why have all the other things in the skill trees? Distractions? McGuffins? Are they trolling the players? I submit every single skill in the trees were put in for a reason, otherwise we'd automatically get skills as we leveled and there wouldn't be choices.

 

So, who's not thinking before they click the submit button?

[Tenetke]

No, no, no. 10k is far, far to trivial and defeats the whole point. 10k is ONE quest on Voss and Corellia when you select the lock box. Respeccing has to have a Con to it's Pro. Respeccing is fine right now. It doesn't need to be nerfed to cater to whiners, the whiners just need to open their eyes and see that you don't need to respec for everything. PvP in TOR isn't super ultra epic hardcore ranked, it's herp derp at best, and if you can't find a spec in the middle of PvE Dps and PvP Dps because because the respec costs are too "expensive", enjoy spending the credits, and quit whining.

 

Actually you do have ranks in pvp, and right now pvp specs are just farming pve specs.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Meluna

[BladeStrike]

You get too many credits in this game. You need a money sink. Here it is. Pick a role and be happy. Edited December 29, 2011 by BladeStrike

[alkanterah]

No, no, no. 10k is far, far to trivial and defeats the whole point. 10k is ONE quest on Voss and Corellia when you select the lock box. Respeccing has to have a Con to it's Pro. Respeccing is fine right now. It doesn't need to be nerfed to cater to whiners, the whiners just need to open their eyes and see that you don't need to respec for everything. PvP in TOR isn't super ultra epic hardcore ranked, it's herp derp at best, and if you can't find a spec in the middle of PvE Dps and PvP Dps because because the respec costs are too "expensive", enjoy spending the credits, and quit whining.

 

The con is that you have to travel all the way back to the fleet and or DK/Coruscant and you can't have presets. I guess you haven't played a raid healer, but outside of raiding it's just no fun. Take merc for example, one who specced for raiding would never put points to prevent pushback on power shot, unload, etc.. But without that soloing can be a real chore at times. There's no downside to dualspec despite the whine saying otherwise. So it's a reasonable request and one that will probably be listened to if it hasn't already, and I doubt all the whining to prevent it's inclusion will sway anyone.

[Tenetke]

if this is true, then why have all the other things in the skill trees? Distractions? McGuffins? Are they trolling the players? I submit every single skill in the trees were put in for a reason, otherwise we'd automatically get skills as we leveled and there wouldn't be choices.

 

So, who's not thinking before they click the submit button?

 

You are saying "well if some skills are not optimal, why have them?" Is that correct? Have you considered that some play into the difference in DPS, Healing, or Tanking? I doubt it, but I thought I would ask. You have a set amount of skills that need to be there. Then you have some that are needed for PvP. Not that it matters because respecing for PvP is already crazy.

 

Still, you are questioning well if one skill gives a 10% increase to X spec, but only a 2% increase to X spec why have it? Well you should also consider that skill A only gives a 2% increase to Y spec, but skill B gives a 5% increase to Y spec in damage and a 10% increase to Y spec in defense. Are you starting to get the picture now? I'm really not sure how else to explain it.

[the_coaltrain]

For those of you who have not gotten to my point at respec cost let me tell you the cost structure.

 

1st time: free

2nd: 1800 cred

3rd: 8300

4th: 25000

5th: 50000

 

if I have to respec again it would cost 50k to do so. When the loading screen suggest I try out different specs through experimentation that is exactly what I did. I also have been switching between healing and dps just to make a heroic grp work for my guild.

 

Just to get a sense of how much 50k is, I would have to do 10 warzone matches just to be able to pay for a respec.

 

 

 

I would suggest that the OP is correct somewhat about the prices being to high if you want to test a spec. I think the first 3 should be free or maybe even 5. Or maybe you earn one each 10 levels you hit so that people are giving each spec a chance. Some people may really just not have their mind made up and I wouldn't want to see them penalized so largely for testing the game out. Remember some people may be new to MMO's altogether.

 

But if you use the respec a lot, often, or with little level difference between specs ... I vote yes to the higher cost.

[Amaranth]

Serious question. Does the cost of respec drop over time? So for example, if I used my free respec today, after n days would my next respec be free again? Or if I respeced 5 times in one day (hypothetically of course) and then waited n days, would my next respec be free or 50k? Asking because I honestly don't know, haven't tried respecing yet.

 

Personally I think the prices are fine if they reset after some (reasonable) period of time. Even 50k isn't hard to come by, so the costs themselves aren't too high. However, if the prices don't reset after some period of time, then I agree that needs to change.

[harry_manback]

This is a ROLE playing game, not a ROLES playing game. If you want to be a super awesome raid healer then make a raid healer. If you want to be a super awesome pvp'er then make a pvp'er. In my opinion, there should be no way to respec at all. Consequences for your choices is a good thing.

[Tenetke]

I would suggest that the OP is correct somewhat about the prices being to high if you want to test a spec. I think the first 3 should be free or maybe even 5. Or maybe you earn one each 10 levels you hit so that people are giving each spec a chance. Some people may really just not have their mind made up and I wouldn't want to see them penalized so largely for testing the game out. Remember some people may be new to MMO's altogether.

 

But if you use the respec a lot, often, or with little level difference between specs ... I vote yes to the higher cost.

 

It's a trick though. A trick that is pulled off by lesser games. Bioware doesn't need to sink to this level, and seeing them do it gives me a really bad feeling about the future of ToR. The trick is that it's designed not as a money sink, but a time sink. A time sink to draw out the play experience. Instead of allows fast changes to try out different stuff, they want you to have to play an entirely different character. A certain "other game" used to do this, but they reached enough content where it was no longer required. Players consume content at amazing speeds, so I can kind of understand it. The average player is probably still happy trying out their first few characters, by the time this gets to be an issue for them dual spec might be in. Where for other players that go through content much faster, there needs to be a few mechanisms in place to draw out their play experience so they don't get bored and quit. This is one of them.

 

In my opinion though BW doesn't need to resort to this. They have such great content in the game already. It sucks because I can see it getting worse, because if they can't keep up with content demands they will continue to leave things like this in the game. The problem there is that it will only hurt them in the end.

 

This is a ROLE playing game, not a ROLES playing game. If you want to be a super awesome raid healer then make a raid healer. If you want to be a super awesome pvp'er then make a pvp'er. In my opinion, there should be no way to respec at all. Consequences for your choices is a good thing.

 

1) From your post alone I can tell that you know nothing about raiding. Wait, don't even bother with the post telling us all how you do. You do not. Don't bother insulting anyone here with a lie.

 

2) that works in a single player game where things are never changed. However in a multiplayer game there are changes. Skills are changed, encounters changed, new skills/areas/abilities added etc. You can not have a static setting for that. It just won't work, and you should feel bad that it has to be explained to you.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Tenetke

[Truga]

Serious question. Does the cost of respec drop over time? So for example, if I used my free respec today, after n days would my next respec be free again? Or if I respeced 5 times in one day (hypothetically of course) and then waited n days, would my next respec be free or 50k? Asking because I honestly don't know, haven't tried respecing yet.

 

Personally I think the prices are fine if they reset after some (reasonable) period of time. Even 50k isn't hard to come by, so the costs themselves aren't too high. However, if the prices don't reset after some period of time, then I agree that needs to change.

 

Yes it does. There's people that respec'd multiple times already for basically no credits. People here must be respecing very often to reach these numbers.

[Basiliscus]

This is a ROLE playing game, not a ROLES playing game.

 

Yes, I'm playing the role of a lieutenant in Havok squad. He's a very versatile commando, saving the galaxy with a assault cannon in one hand and a corelian ale in the other!

[PloGreen]

After a week, your respec costs are reset to 0. Just thought I'd point that out

 

Keep calm and carry on.