Conquest Changes in Game Update 5.9

[Krazhez]

Edit: Actually just to make this more confusing, after finishing some dailies on one toon and logging in on a second they showed as complete on the second... however on logging in to my third toon I noticed they're all marked incomplete again on her... What the hell is actually going on with this new system?

 

Aren't the bugs fun? I know we had issues with them from day one of the revamp, with some people being able to get the legacy dailies done multiple times in a day. I checked 3 characters today, and the legacy dailies were all appearing as if they were daily per toon. I had hope they ninja changed it that way and that it wasn't just the bug. But with you saying one toon showed complete and the other incomplete... I guess not. :/

Edited April 4, 2018 by Krazhez

[BRKMSN]

Apparently they don't really care what players like.

 

They have a design goal they are meeting, and as long as it appeases them it seems that's what matters most.

 

By not granting regular intervals of communication regarding conquest, the frustration only compounds too. Not helping is when people are well aware of the quick fixes applied to the mispriced CM items.

 

Yes, I know the game changes would require more time to implement, but what doesn't take a lot of time is responding to people's concerns and suggestions occasionally so it doesn't seem as if they don't care.

 

Par for the course, it's just a repeat of the 5.0 gearing system gut that was met with quite a bit of anger and disappointment. There's just no excuse to not follow up with communication, and that's what happened back then too.

 

Hard to remain optimistic when this is how it goes.

 

IMO, the conquest overhaul was designed to address a lot of voiced concerns in the forums about the old system. I don't think these changes were made to meet the devs' expectations, but to plan a solution to many of the voiced concerns.

 

I feel that so many people were asking for changes to help small guilds have a chance to compete, but all they really wanted was a chance to get Flagship plans to unlock their flagships. I think they implemented and considered a lot of suggestions while the simple guild target score was enough.

 

Small guilds always relied on alt-power. Now that alts have lost their effectiveness, small guilds might as well not waste their time. I'm not even moving my flagship. There's no invasion bonus anymore anyway, but I already know we don't have enough unique, active players to make the goal and nobody wants to have to use a day-planner app to get the most from their alts a the daily-repeatable or play 4-5 warzones to get 1000 points on 1 character.

 

A lot of time was wasted making conquest "more competitive." Less fun is never a good thing and currently, I've been spending more time on the forums than in the game because there's nothing motivating me to do a whole lot.

[khamseen_air]

Aren't the bugs fun? I know we had issues with them from day one of the revamp, with some people being able to get the legacy dailies done multiple times in a day. I checked 3 characters today, and the legacy dailies were all appearing as if they were daily per toon. I had hope they ninja changed it that way and that it wasn't just the bug. But with you saying one toon showed complete and the other incomplete... I guess not. :/

 

Yeah it'd be a good thing if they did change it so dailies were per toon rather than legacy. I mean it's bad enough that so many of the dailies reward less than their infinitely repeatable predecessors did. The heroics are a great example, previously they gave 500 CP per heroic without SH or GFS boosts and you could do every heroic on the planet, on every toon you could manage to work up the will to do. But now they reward less and you only get points for one heroic per day, per legacy... unless you're lucky enough that it bugs out and you might get it for two heroics a day or one on a few toons.

 

For a system which was supposed to give people "more options" on how to complete conquests, it doesn't half seem like they've taken away all the fun options. I have to sit and work out which objectives I'll do on which characters now in advance to make sure I can get 3-4 of my toons up to their point cap. Before I always finished on at least 4 toons with no forward planning and just enjoying what I was playing. It's not enjoyable any more.

[dryving]

Even with these changes it's too much for our guild. We love this game and many of our guild have played since launch, but we've all in the past few days settled on another game we're moving to. Enough is enough. It's not fun anymore. Conquest has become a chore instead of a fun challenge for us. We are a small guild and would spend months buying and farming mats for crafting conquest so we had a chance of winning. Then that week we'd cycle toons multiple times a day. Now that's gone.

 

We would also have fun on the weeks where the planet had a decent number of heroics like Nar, but this week we can only run 1 measly heroic per toon per day for a crappy 825 points.

 

I remember one Sunday night where our guild thought it might be fun to go for the board, so we spend 5 hours running Nar heroics on alts. That was fun and challenging for us....and we almost made it, but the #10 guild had a push and squeaked them ahead of us.

 

Not anymore. Our guild leader & founder just unsubbed. Enough is enough. I regret the timecard I bought a week ago because the enjoyment of the game is now gone for me.

[ShadowGovernator]

Even with these changes it's too much for our guild. We love this game and many of our guild have played since launch, but we've all in the past few days settled on another game we're moving to. Enough is enough. It's not fun anymore. Conquest has become a chore instead of a fun challenge for us. We are a small guild and would spend months buying and farming mats for crafting conquest so we had a chance of winning. Then that week we'd cycle toons multiple times a day. Now that's gone.

 

We would also have fun on the weeks where the planet had a decent number of heroics like Nar, but this week we can only run 1 measly heroic per toon per day for a crappy 825 points.

 

I remember one Sunday night where our guild thought it might be fun to go for the board, so we spend 5 hours running Nar heroics on alts. That was fun and challenging for us....and we almost made it, but the #10 guild had a push and squeaked them ahead of us.

 

Not anymore. Our guild leader & founder just unsubbed. Enough is enough. I regret the timecard I bought a week ago because the enjoyment of the game is now gone for me.

 

Agreed.

And yet another week with our guild flagships stationed on the fleet with zero invasion of planets for conquest.

Monitor that!

[Azreail]

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

-eric

 

Only getting conquest points for ONE heroic on ONE toon per day. This has had a massive impact on my ability to cap alts. Combined with the drop in points that that single heroic is now worth since you've removed the planetary bonuses and frankly I'm not even trying to cap more than one toon any more (actually I'm not even bothering to cap just one!). For those who prefer to skip some group content for their own reasons, this greatly impacts making points on alts.

 

Please, change this back to getting points for *every* objective heroic, on *every* toon, *every* day.

 

 

 

Example for those inclined to more detail

Currently with Death Mark cq, one repeatable daily objective is the heroics on NS. I have 6 strongholds for 150% bonus so this objective is worth 825 points for me. Under the previous system where I could get points for every heroic, on multiple toons, I could have netted 6,600 points per toon I chose to do all 8 NS hcs on, per day. Not a bad way to cap alts if you're inclined to grind hcs or play at a time fo day when there's not many pops for wz/ops/fps/gsf. Under the new system, I can get only 825 points total, on just one single toon, per day.

 

Obviously for those people who don't have the max SH bonus (e.g. f2p, pref, newer players without the cash yet to unlock everything), this is even more of a screw-over. I checked with a friend who has only 2 SH and they get 495 points per hc, so even if they did every hc available and earned points for it, it would still take them 4 days to cap (even factoring in the extra points from the daily rampage objective), so it's not like making it infinitely repeatable would suddenly have people capped in 5 minutes.

[cyrusramsey]

We've been told several times now that (some of) the devs do actually play the game. We've now heard updates about the impressive amount of CR300 characters that Keith has a few times.. and then people will quote those things as if it was proof of sorts.

 

This sort of thing would not have happened if they knew how their game worked. They say one thing, but they consistently keep proving the opposite.

 

On the one hand I want to be encouraged by the fact that they seem willing to tweak it until they get it right, but on the other... they're incredibly far off and are doing nothing but inching away from their original position, which means that something must've given them the impression that they at least got it almost right.

 

The rewards for all three yields are extremely underwhelming, and yet they don't see how a marginally increased underwhelming reward doesn't somehow make it a lot more desirable.

 

Effectively eliminating alts from the equation only leaves large amounts of members as way to excel at conquest.

 

I think the current system looks robust enough that it could easily be worked into something useful and rewarding, but every post by Musco I see only indicates that they have no clue how far off they are, that they don't believe us when we tell them and that because of that they don't want to make the required changes.

[Tarbuch]

Holy **** I'm happy I unsub'd today! I really enjoyed doing heroics for conquest. It baffles me how they could come up with changes that do exactly the opposite of what they say they wanted to accomplish. And why is it going to take them a minimum of a month to even start to fix this mess? How does it benefit anyone to drive off altoholics and solo players? It's like the dev. team took complete leave of their senses.

 

It appears that their plan is to slow walk the changes back to 50% of pre 5.8 system during 2018, as they have no developers left to do the changes or create new content. Smilar what they did with the previous dumbster fire aka 5.0.

 

All the best for people that have plans to stick with BioFail during the latest kerfuffle.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Tarbuch
typo

[PorsaLindahl]

It appears that their plan is to slow walk the changes back to 50% of pre 5.8 system during the 2018, as thay have no developers left to do the changes or create new content. Smilar what they did with the previous dumbster fire aka 5.0.

 

All the best for people that have plans to stick with BioFail during the latest kerfuffle.

 

Their slow walk isn't enough. People need to start giving feedback with their wallets. Maybe then they'll start to listen.

 

I don't have the patience to wait for 5.too.damn.late to come along with only half-assed fixes, leading to 5.even.later.than.before.because.we.still.can't.get.it.right, let alone 6.OMG.what.have.they.screwed.up.now?

[Hautamacky]

The conquest based on the Legacy will cost many players who put the game aside and yet they will not change anything as they always think it's better than they want, so for many, conquest is no longer a recreational player are or raiders who use the conquest when hero quests are in there to get credits ran.

 

Even the one who always likes to conquer is the system designed for legacy too poorly thought out.

 

In fact, with the change of conquest, they wanted to enable little guilds to build their ship and have better chances of conquering that did not succeed and they also did not listen to the community which is more of a big part of the old system designed for chars It was also good for smaller guilds

[Darevsool]

I played more last night than I have in over a week. Why? Because the system they put in is broken. I cap'd two toons in a guild that's going to win (I already have that title, so I don't care, I just put my points in to add to the total) and I started a 2nd round of toons for the guild I do care about. If I play all week, like I'd normally do during a NS heroic week, I'll probably be able to cap 3-5 more toons per account. Normally I'd be able to do 3 sets of toons a night.

 

Because the system is broken and doesn't work they way they tried to make it work.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Darevsool

[Kurj]

If they did nothing more than permit players to repeat daily repeatable objectives up to a daily points cap, people would be able to go back to playing how they like. Tabulate all conquest points by legacy and grant rewards for every multiple of the personal goal you reach, and players won’t notice the alt issue. I think those are solid, positive suggestions that would benefit from debate, but folks would rather complain or attack each other personally. /shrug

[KendraP]

If they did nothing more than permit players to repeat daily repeatable objectives up to a daily points cap, people would be able to go back to playing how they like. Tabulate all conquest points by legacy and grant rewards for every multiple of the personal goal you reach, and players won’t notice the alt issue. I think those are solid, positive suggestions that would benefit from debate, but folks would rather complain or attack each other personally. /shrug

 

I still dont see why my capping so much is an issue. Limiting the number of points attainable per account is a nerf to those of us who do play enough to cap multiples.

 

I do like the idea of rewards being per legacy, however. There are people who arent freakish enough to run 10 guardians like me

Edited April 4, 2018 by KendraP

[olagatonjedi]

I still dont see why my capping so much is an issue. Limiting the number of points attainable per account is a nerf to those of us who do play enough to cap multiples.

 

I do like the idea of rewards being per legacy, however. There are people who arent freakish enough to run 10 guardians like me

It's for balance and fair play across the board, regardless of how many toons you have. There isn't much else to discuss on that topic, tbh.

[TUXs]

It appears that their plan is to slow walk the changes back to 50% of pre 5.8 system during 2018, as they have no developers left to do the changes or create new content. Smilar what they did with the previous dumbster fire aka 5.0.

 

All the best for people that have plans to stick with BioFail during the latest kerfuffle.

It so apparent it's funny. I swear we'll still be dealing with this in June, likely into August before people just give it up entirely.

 

The bottom line is, these changes to conquest are complete crap. What used to be largely a bonus activity (something you got FOR playing) has now turned into something people would need to do full freaking time. It's no longer a nice bonus set of goals that encouraged players to do random little tings, or a nice 15-30 minute time killer...it's now an "all or nothing" activity. I elect to do nothing. It's dead to me.

[Ardrossan]

Their slow walk isn't enough. People need to start giving feedback with their wallets. Maybe then they'll start to listen.

 

That's a tad ironic.

[Lhancelot]

By walking back the changes, they are admitting to have made bad changes. Walking it slowly back only frustrates people more. They lose long time, loyal players. It has to be a pride thing.

 

Not addressing the constant influx of feedback and criticisms only causes frustration to boil over more.

 

There must be some numbers nerd that sits and does analytics to decide what is fun in the game, instead of actually playing and feeling what is fun.

 

Alts + choices + options in gameplay + worthwhile rewards for effort = fun

Restrictions + lack of options + lack of flexibility + low yield rewards + tedious attention = not fun

[Kurj]

I still dont see why my capping so much is an issue. Limiting the number of points attainable per account is a nerf to those of us who do play enough to cap multiples.

 

I do like the idea of rewards being per legacy, however. There are people who arent freakish enough to run 10 guardians like me

 

I don't either, Kendra, but I don't think they're ever going to change that approach. They've decided that the soft cap on CQ points is right around 100,000 points (total of the daily + one-time objectives this week is right around 100,000 if you complete all dailies every day), and point progression past that is extremely marginal. That's obviously something they did to prevent big point spreads. I don't want to debate that decision, because I don't see them changing it, and doing so just pits us all against one another. Good lord, more than 50% of this thread is devoted to the pointless dialogue with/about/around He Who Shall Not Be Named. I've got him on ignore, but I still get to "enjoy" the show because most of us can't ignore the train wreck.

 

BW's big mistake is (a) failing to adopt a system that separates point limitations from playstyle choices, and (b) making Conquest alt unfriendly. I think if you restore those two excellent features of the old system, many of the complaints will diminish, and many of us will be able to get back to business as usual. I know that would make me happy.

 

The other mistake they have made is making the relationship between quantity of rewards received and "capping toons" a 1:1 ratio. It's easy to limit total conquest points achieved per account, without a 1:1 relationship between points and rewards. Just tie rewards to a multiplier based on however many multiples of the personal goal you receive. I.e., on my first 15,000 points, I get 1x the award. On my second 15,000 points, I get 2x the award. On my third 15,000 points, I get 3x the award. If there is an issue with mats or encryption inflation, they can tweak that multiplier any way they want, but at a minimum they need to meaningfully encourage folks to dive into Conquest by making it enjoyable on a personal playstyle basis.

 

There are lots of ways to address player complaints within the boundaries of BW's decision to level the Conquest playing field. We can't make everyone happy, but we can make a lot more than currently are. I think we should try to influence that process as much as we can.

[KendraP]

It's for balance and fair play across the board, regardless of how many toons you have. There isn't much else to discuss on that topic, tbh.

 

Whats the difference between me capping 6 toons and someone else getting 90000 points on 1 toon? I get 6 rewards sure. I also went to the effort of levelling and gearing 6 toons. Nothing is stopping anyone else from doing the same thing.

 

And besides which, it made getting encryptions fair for those of us running small guilds as we could run alts to get multiple encryptions. Now the system is obviously skewed in favor of large guilds with large numbers of individual sccounts.

 

Again. I don't care one iota about the title. If i did I'd dump a toon in the large guilds. I do care about expanding my guildship without resorting to GTN games.

[Kurj]

Whats the difference between me capping 6 toons and someone else getting 90000 points on 1 toon? I get 6 rewards sure. I also went to the effort of levelling and gearing 6 toons. Nothing is stopping anyone else from doing the same thing.

 

And besides which, it made getting encryptions fair for those of us running small guilds as we could run alts to get multiple encryptions. Now the system is obviously skewed in favor of large guilds with large numbers of individual sccounts.

 

Again. I don't care one iota about the title. If i did I'd dump a toon in the large guilds. I do care about expanding my guildship without resorting to GTN games.

 

It's not about capping. It's about how many rewards you get for capping. Add a multiplier based on the number of times you "cap", and you will get far more encryptions for your flagship.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Kurj

[olagatonjedi]

Whats the difference between me capping 6 toons and someone else getting 90000 points on 1 toon? I get 6 rewards sure. I also went to the effort of levelling and gearing 6 toons. Nothing is stopping anyone else from doing the same thing.

 

And besides which, it made getting encryptions fair for those of us running small guilds as we could run alts to get multiple encryptions. Now the system is obviously skewed in favor of large guilds with large numbers of individual sccounts.

 

Again. I don't care one iota about the title. If i did I'd dump a toon in the large guilds. I do care about expanding my guildship without resorting to GTN games.

Capping 6 toons and/or doing it all on one toon still requires extra effort that is discouraged from the balance standpoint. BW has all but said that you can do it, but you have to decode if it will be worth it to you and/or your guild. All they did was lower the return value of conquest beyond your cap. They haven't removed any if the game activities that you can participate in with your main and/or alts.

 

There is a diminishing return on conquest - JUST LIKE many other areas of this game - to prevent imbalancing. I would love to get full value on crit up to 4k, but DR encourages me not to. Nobody that I have heard of ever bad a problem with that, even though it is something people would find fun (especially big crits in PVP. Right?

Edited April 4, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Darevsool]

Capping 6 toons and/or doing it all on one toon still requires extra effort that is discouraged from the balance standpoint. BW has all but said that you can do it, but you have to decode if it will be worth it to you and/or your guild. All they did was lower the return value of conquest beyond your cap. They haven't removed any if the game activities that you can participate in with your main and/or alts.

 

There is a diminishing return on conquest - JUST LIKE many other areas of this game - to prevent imbalancing. I would love to get full value on crit up to 4k, but DR encourages me not to. Nobody that I have heard of ever bad a problem with that, even though it is something people would find fun (especially big crits in PVP. Right?

 

 

YES THEY DID. This week's NS heroics being switched to ONE heroic per day per legacy is proof of that which even you can not ignore or dispute.

[DarthSpuds]

Their slow walk isn't enough. People need to start giving feedback with their wallets. Maybe then they'll start to listen.

 

I don't have the patience to wait for 5.too.damn.late to come along with only half-assed fixes, leading to 5.even.later.than.before.because.we.still.can't.get.it.right, let alone 6.OMG.what.have.they.screwed.up.now?

 

I have voted with mu wallet - my check-out date is my Sig for all to see.

 

Just really posting though to say that the

let alone 6.OMG.what.have.they.screwed.up.now?

comment made my day.

 

Terrible day at work, was dreading logging on to the game to "relax" because it isn't relaxing anymore; bit that comment put a big smile on my face - thank you.

 

All The Best

[KendraP]

Capping 6 toons and/or doing it all on one toon still requires extra effort that is discouraged from the balance standpoint. BW has all but said that you can do it, but you have to decode if it will be worth it to you and/or your guild. All they did was lower the return value of conquest beyond your cap. They haven't removed any if the game activities that you can participate in with your main and/or alts.

Last week i capped 5 toons, so while I'm still rather unhappy, thanks to the one off objectives being the weeklies I pulled it off. This week, i seriously doubt I can pull the same thing off, considering the one time objectives. Im one person trying to expand a guild ship.

 

There is a diminishing return on conquest - JUST LIKE many other areas of this game - to prevent imbalancing. I would love to get full value on crit up to 4k, but DR encourages me not to. Nobody that I have heard of ever bad a problem with that, even though it is something people would find fun (especially big crits in PVP. Right?

 

Are we seriously trying to compare conquest points to crit in pvp? I might be done trying to take this conversation seriously... and if we are conquest as it stands is blatantly more unbalanced than PvP. The large guilds will always win. By playing smarter in a wz my team can win against one stacked with all the op classes; with conquest the large guild will win by sheer numbers. If we insist on this absurd comparison it would be like a 60k crit ability in PvP.

[PorsaLindahl]

I have voted with mu wallet - my check-out date is my Sig for all to see.

 

Just really posting though to say that the

 

comment made my day.

 

Terrible day at work, was dreading logging on to the game to "relax" because it isn't relaxing anymore; bit that comment put a big smile on my face - thank you.

 

All The Best

 

I put my link back in my sig, too. I actually got fooled by last week's conquest and thought they were moving in the right direction, so I went ahead and resubscribed. Then logged in yesterday afternoon to see that they actually took 5 steps backwards from the previous week, so I cancelled again. I'll be out of here a couple of days after you.