Conquest Changes in Game Update 5.9

[olagatonjedi]

And seriously, what? Blatantly setting up small guilds for failure is fair now? Why am i even continuing to argue here?

If all 10 people in my small guild cap 1 toon thats 150000 points.

If all 100 people in a large guild cap 1 toon thats 1500000 points.

In what universe is that more balanced than before? I assume if you pvp you play a merc?

1500000 to 150000 is closer than 1500000001 to 15000000

Edited April 5, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[olagatonjedi]

I think we need to review a cap. Mathematically speaking, this is an asymptote. Obviously crit has an asymptote somewhere, where if you keep adding it, you no longer get as much damage out.

 

That doesnt exist for conquest points: a point is always one more point, and the large guilds can take advantage of this through greater numbers of accounts, which i could previously emulate with alts. Thus, alts made it more fair to small guilds.

 

This pvp comparison is totally absurd.

Re-read what I wrote, if you choose to.

[KendraP]

1500000 to 150000 is closer than 1500000000 to 15000000

 

As i said earlier to someone else, the difference is purely artificial. The large guilds are dominating, if anything, even mlre than they were before because they have more toons to take advantage of one off and daily only objectives.

 

And besides which, as I've mentioned, at least some of us smaller guilds could give less of a damn about the board. I just want encryptions at faster than a trickle.

[olagatonjedi]

This is literally the most retarded thing i've read on the forums in a long time.... and this is coming from someone who had to make sense of Musco's patch notes... so thanks for that.

 

I'm fairly certain the first conquest point I earn a week is worth exactly the same amount as the 100,000th point I earned that week.

 

#economicsishard

I would encourage you to read it again. I don't ever recall placing any specific value on anything.

 

Perhaps it was stupid to you because you didnt read it correctly. That would certainly make sense.

Edited April 5, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[KendraP]

Re-read what I wrote, if you choose to.

 

Ok lets get more detailed.

 

In mathematics, what you describe as a aoft cap is known as an asymptote. Mathematically speaking, this occurs when the derivative (slope of the tangent line to) that curve approaches zero. In crit i assume there is such a point, i.e. if you were to graph crit vs damage there would be a point on that graph where you could claim the rste of change was mathematically negligible. This would be the "soft cap" on crit.

 

For conquest points if you were to plot total points vs toons capped there probably is no such point - every point is the same. Especially in larger guilds which are not limited by the one off objectives. Thus, i argue there probably is no asymptote. No aaymptote directly implies no soft cap = no diminishing returns for large guilds in particular.

[olagatonjedi]

As i said earlier to someone else, the difference is purely artificial. The large guilds are dominating, if anything, even mlre than they were before because they have more toons to take advantage of one off and daily only objectives.

 

And besides which, as I've mentioned, at least some of us smaller guilds could give less of a damn about the board. I just want encryptions at faster than a trickle.

The last 2 posts not by me just said that 1 point is still worth 1 point, so if the total points are closer, regardless if they are artificial, it means the smaller number is closer to the larger number than in the old system.

 

To go from 1point to 2 points in this system is easier than going from 100000 to 200000, even if artificially implemented. The ratios improved, the points lowered, so the opportunity to win increased. Doesnt mean they WILL win or win often, but it still helped the team that was producing the smaller amount, relative to the larger amount.

[olagatonjedi]

Ok lets get more detailed.

 

In mathematics, what you describe as a aoft cap is known as an asymptote. Mathematically speaking, this occurs when the derivative (slope of the tangent line to) that curve approaches zero. In crit i assume there is such a point, i.e. if you were to graph crit vs damage there would be a point on that graph where you could claim the rste of change was mathematically negligible. This would be the "soft cap" on crit.

 

For conquest points if you were to plot total points vs toons capped there probably is no such point - every point is the same. Especially in larger guilds which are not limited by the one off objectives. Thus, i argue there probably is no asymptote. No aaymptote directly implies no soft cap = no diminishing returns for large guilds in particular.

Understood. My understanding of the term "soft cap was incorrect. I appreciate it. I did, however, clarify what I meant without using the term soft cap, so a differentiation couldve been made.

[megafirstone]

I sub every 2 months non-recurring, glad I do. When this sub runs out, I'm going Elder Scrolls. Was fun, but I am going away, ty to all friends. Ya f'd up ops, pvp, now cq (cxp was a blast as well - lmfao). Enough for my money. All the vet players are leaving, or have left. Enjoy the the kiddies and put a G rating on the game (you will need a parents note to go to fleet tho"). Have fun all, was a blast when it worked.

 

Oh no, another sub is going away. In the guild where i am in , i know at least 10 people that are unsubbing. Thx to the top who made the decision to change Conquest. Normally they must keep people happy and have fun, but this is the world upside down. MMO= MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game. At this rate it is going to be a massive SOLO online game

[KendraP]

The last 2 posts not by me just said that 1 point is still worth 1 point, so if the total points are closer, regardless if they are artificial, it means the smaller number is closer to the larger number than in the old system.

Um what? I swearyou make less sense in every reaponse. If youre trying to say 100 is closer to 200 than 10000 is to 20000 ok, i don't see what that has tondo with anything, however.

 

To go from 1point to 2 points in this system is easier than going from 100000 to 200000, even if artificially implemented. The ratios improved, the points lowered, so the opportunity to win increased. Doesnt mean they WILL win or win often, but it still helped the team that was producing the smaller amount, relative to the larger amount.

 

I run a small guild and these changes have done nothing but hurt me, as i can't get many encryptions.

 

If i was going to go for a planet, I'd hate this system even worse as, lost by 100 points or lose by a million points, what's it matter, you still lost

[Keta]

I've got him on ignore, but I still get to "enjoy" the show because most of us can't ignore the train wreck.

 

I log into this thread just to see how many hidden posts there are on any given page due to his being the sole occupant of my ignore list.

[PorsaLindahl]

Um what?

 

He's baiting you. It's what he does. Everything you respond with will be met with gibberish. He's not worth your time or effort.

 

 

Just ignore him before Dasty comes along and sends you a pm reprimand.

[PorsaLindahl]

I log into this thread just to see how many hidden posts there are on any given page due to his being the sole occupant of my ignore list.

 

Kinda funny to see, um not see 3-5 consecutive posts all over the place in this thread.

[Eshvara]

He's baiting you. It's what he does. Everything you respond with will be met with gibberish. He's not worth your time or effort.

 

 

Just ignore him before Dasty comes along and sends you a pm reprimand.

 

I better misbehave so Dasty will pm me.

[KendraP]

He's baiting you. It's what he does. Everything you respond with will be met with gibberish. He's not worth your time or effort.

 

 

Just ignore him before Dasty comes along and sends you a pm reprimand.

 

Yeah.. i mean i don't think ive said anything purposefully insulting. Unnecessarily complicated mathematical explanations maybe.

Edited April 5, 2018 by KendraP

[Ardrossan]

Just posting here to mention that I finished my Conquest today. I had all the SHs unlocked, I did three or four WZs, I got the heroic and kill counts on Hoth, I did the 'bribe the hutts' thing [which no one should do ever, it's terrible], I did the Mandalore's revenge chapter, and I did the 2 WBs on Hoth and NS.

 

No grinding. I also could have done, and had planned to do, Mando Raiders and the kill count/heroics on NS, and a few more WZs, but I got lucky with some WB invites. I actually finished a few hundred points over the limit, actually.

 

It's more difficult, certainly. Before the update, all I had to do was a round of heroics on whatever the highlighted planet was, and I got it. But it's doable and forced me to [gasp!] play with others, and earn some longstanding achievements in the process.

[KendraP]

Just posting here to mention that I finished my Conquest today. I had all the SHs unlocked, I did three or four WZs, I got the heroic and kill counts on Hoth, I did the 'bribe the hutts' thing [which no one should do ever, it's terrible], I did the Mandalore's revenge chapter, and I did the 2 WBs on Hoth and NS.

 

No grinding. I also could have done, and had planned to do, Mando Raiders and the kill count/heroics on NS, and a few more WZs, but I got lucky with some WB invites. I actually finished a few hundred points over the limit, actually.

 

It's more difficult, certainly. Before the update, all I had to do was a round of heroics on whatever the highlighted planet was, and I got it. But it's doable and forced me to [gasp!] play with others, and earn some longstanding achievements in the process.

 

i've always played with other people. 2 nights straight of playing with other people and I haven't managed to cap my main yet.

[Ardrossan]

Each WB is worth 5k. If you do the highlighted ops you also get 7.5k apiece, or 1875 through GF. idk if that's worth it or not as I've never done them.

 

I forgot to mention, I also did the BH event once. Had I not done the two WBs I'd be halfway to the conquest goal, but there's still five days left.

 

I'm not saying that it's easy or that BW hasn't failed to take into consideration that many people can't really afford to spend several days doing this stuff [even if it's relatively short bits each day], but the impression I got from this thread BEFORE I did the conquest was that it would be a nightmare grindfest to complete. It's...slightly more difficult than before.

[KendraP]

Each WB is worth 5k. If you do the highlighted ops you also get 7.5k apiece, or 1875 through GF. idk if that's worth it or not as I've never done them.

 

I forgot to mention, I also did the BH event once. Had I not done the two WBs I'd be halfway to the conquest goal, but there's still five days left.

 

I'm not saying that it's easy or that BW hasn't failed to take into consideration that many people can't really afford to spend several days doing this stuff [even if it's relatively short bits each day], but the impression I got from this thread BEFORE I did the conquest was that it would be a nightmare grindfest to complete. It's...slightly more difficult than before.

 

Slightly? I'd have capped 2 toons by now in the old system. i'm like... 1/4 of the way to my main.

[TrixxieTriss]

And another one down.

 

Before long they'll be forced to put in solo ops and pvp.

 

It won’t surprise me if they do. There are already story people asking for it.

[Ardrossan]

Solo ops...depends. Depends on what the actual story is. i'd rather they focus on making some of the last few FPs soloable. One of these days I'd like to see Kaon or RR but it's not going to happen soon.

 

I noticed the other day that they stealth-changed the oricon ops requirement - you can now delete it rather than have it sit in your mission log forever. That's good enough for me.

 

Solo pvp...That's essentially forum pvp.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Ardrossan

[calypsissmexy]

Is there a thread about how broken the blue/purple repeatables are this week?

[PorsaLindahl]

It won’t surprise me if they do. There are already story people asking for it.

 

Yeah. That's why I made that comment.

[masterceil]

Just posting here to mention that I finished my Conquest today. I had all the SHs unlocked, I did three or four WZs, I got the heroic and kill counts on Hoth, I did the 'bribe the hutts' thing [which no one should do ever, it's terrible], I did the Mandalore's revenge chapter, and I did the 2 WBs on Hoth and NS.

 

No grinding. I also could have done, and had planned to do, Mando Raiders and the kill count/heroics on NS, and a few more WZs, but I got lucky with some WB invites. I actually finished a few hundred points over the limit, actually.

 

It's more difficult, certainly. Before the update, all I had to do was a round of heroics on whatever the highlighted planet was, and I got it. But it's doable and forced me to [gasp!] play with others, and earn some longstanding achievements in the process.

 

Good on you! Nice to see neutral/positive feedback in one of these threads!

 

It really isn't difficult at all to cap one toon. I agree there are obnoxious barriers in place on capping alts (Heroics... -.-), but all the people whinging about not being able to do two of their favourite things in particular to get their Personal Conquest Goal is starting to grate on my nerves. Post-5.8 Conquest has different objectives and a slightly different structure than pre-5.8 Conquest. No, you can't just farm Warzones and hit goal when you turn in your Weekly. No, you can't just run a planet's Heroics and hit goal in under an hour.

 

People that were capping Conquest before were going after the old objectives - and to cap in Conquest now, you have to do the new objectives. People learned, between the time Conquest was introduced and patch 5.8 a few years later, what activities they could do to participate in Conquest. Now, it seems, they're not even interested in trying. I appreciate you actually putting in the work, and pointing out just how easy it is to get that 15k points on a first toon, at the very least, if you just get into the new objectives and go for it!

[DarthSpuds]

People that were capping Conquest before were going after the old objectives - and to cap in Conquest now, you have to do the new objectives. People learned, between the time Conquest was introduced and patch 5.8 a few years later, what activities they could do to participate in Conquest. Now, it seems, they're not even interested in trying. I appreciate you actually putting in the work, and pointing out just how easy it is to get that 15k points on a first toon, at the very least, if you just get into the new objectives and go for it!

 

But this line of "reasoning" (and I use that term under advisement, because it is far from reasonable) assumes that ALL players consume ALL types of content equally.

 

That isn't the case now, and it has NEVER been the case.

 

I don't do PvP or GSF, and I don't PUG - ever.

 

If I put in enough time (work and RL commitments permitting) I could hit that Personal Goal maybe 80% of the time in the Pre-5.8 Conquest.

 

Now even with a 5 day weekend (last week - so no work commitments at all) I had to commit 4 -5 hours a day for a whole week to hit that Personal Goal, and this week there's no hope at all of me hitting it.

 

Surely if Conquest needed such a radical overhaul - and clearly it didn't - then the end result should have been one that permitted players who consume different types of content to different levels to still also have a chance to hit that Personal Goal.

 

Surely part of Keith's statement of intent for the Conquest changes was to make it more inclusive, more fun, and more rewarding - it has done none of those things.

 

Even from the standpoint of what Bioware claimed it intended the 5.8 Conquest has been a failure; from the point of view of overall player participation it has been an unmitigated disaster.

 

This game NEEDS MORE reasons for MORE players to play MORE often. 5.8 Conquest did the exact opposite.

 

The only people who think that is a good thing are those that actively want the game to close.

 

All The Best

[masterceil]

The only people who think that is a good thing are those that actively want the game to close.

 

All The Best

 

As someone that enjoys the game and thinks the general paradigm of 5.8+ Conquest is a refreshing change, this is patently false. And it's those kinds of hyperbolic statements that just makes it so I can't wait for 24 May to come around.