Unsubscriber rewards.

[Eshvara]

The bottom line is, they are just describing this incorrectly. Nico and Shae are subscriber incentives, not subscriber rewards.

 

Subscriber rewards would give rewards to all who are currently subscribed. This promotion is just that: a promotion to encourage people to subscribe who aren't, not to reward those who are and have been leading up to this point in time.

 

.

 

I guess this is right in the technical sense. A reward would be that statue that was given to the 5 year long subscribers.🤔

Oh well, hopefully more money and players for swtor!?

[Joonbeams]

When they said how its unique they didn't meant exclusive. They meant how that character is one of its kind , well known in this game, and different enough from all the others.

 

With the bias of hindsight, I cannot dispute this obviously. I'm just responding to the argument that they never said it was unique. And also pointing out that if someone (at the time, without the benefit of hindsight) felt that this was the one and only chance to get these as sub rewards, there was plenty of circumstantial support for that belief.

 

I honestly considered the likelihood that these rewards would become CM items one day. I never once thought they'd return again as "subscriber rewards" and I don't think anyone else did either - at the time. There was a reason we all thought that - and there's now a reason why none of us will think that again...

[TUXs]

I totally see where you're coming from, and I agree. Those who already have the reward absolutely should be compensated in some way. Even if they just gave out some cartel coins to those who already have the reward. If it's to reward subscribers than all subscribers should be rewarded. Is there some place to make a petition or something? I know that seems kind of lame but I'd sign it, and I bet a lot of others would too.

 

(Also, EEE! TUX, replied to me on the forums. Everyone knows TUX!)

Oh Gawd lol!

[Damask_Rose]

If we think of them as toys, look at it this way. Bobby is given a shiny red truck when he is 5 years old. He loved this truck. 10 years later, his parents have another son named Robby. When Robby turns 5, the parents remember how much Bobby loved his red truck, and decide to get Robby a red truck too. Does it make sense that Bobby would be upset and feel less special because Robby got a red truck when he was 5, too?

 

In my opinion the fact Robby got a red truck just as Bobby did doesn't indicate any less love for Bobby... Heaven knows as time went on, Bobby was given many gifts along the way just as older subs have been given many gifts too.

 

You need to tweak your analogy a bit. Shae & Nikko are described as subscriber rewards, not new subscriber incentives. So change this to a Christmas present instead of a birthday present.

 

Bobby is given a shiny red truck for Christmas when he is 5 years old. He loved this truck. Later, his parents have another son named Robby. When Robby turns 5, the parents remember how much Bobby loved his red truck, and decide to get Robby a red truck too for Christmas too. But they don't give anything to Bobby for Christmas because he got a Christmas present several years ago. If you think Bobby would feel just as loved as Robby that Christmas morning, then you don't know kids well.

[peter_plankskull]

Lol, I wouldn't go that far.

 

You need to see him in game to recognize his true god like presence. Wherever he goes a light follows, imperials fall, and victory for the republic prevails, the screams come from not his enemies as he offers mercy and compassion, but the screams from his fellow teammates and those lucky enough to get a glimpse of TUX.

[Quraswren]

Another stupid move brought to you by the letters:

 

B I O W A R E

 

 

Not only does it not matter if you are a loyal subscriber for rewards during a specific period of time but, you now get the bonus of knowing that for being a loyal subscriber, bioware will later just give those rewards to anyone and in turn not do anything new for the ones that were actual the subscribers when they were supposed to be.

 

Can't wait for the next subscriber reward so I can learn what non-subscribers will be able to get later.

[RudeDog]

 

I think we have to ask ourselves a serious question. Is swtor trying to break up with us? Are we not getting the hint. Seems like swtor has been trying to push us away for the past few years.

 

 

You have hit upon it. I believe this is absolutely what they are doing because no one can make as many poor decisions as these guys.

[Lunablade]

With the bias of hindsight, I cannot dispute this obviously. I'm just responding to the argument that they never said it was unique. And also pointing out that if someone (at the time, without the benefit of hindsight) felt that this was the one and only chance to get these as sub rewards, there was plenty of circumstantial support for that belief.

 

I honestly considered the likelihood that these rewards would become CM items one day. I never once thought they'd return again as "subscriber rewards" and I don't think anyone else did either - at the time. There was a reason we all thought that - and there's now a reason why none of us will think that again...

 

Lets be clear about something, BW in the previous offers stated only how they are the chance to get those companions in their time but never actually made any proclamation which would be legally binding and which would oblige it to never release those companions again. But I got it that some people could just interpret things on the wrong way.

 

I think how BW decided to make this move now based on all the requests for this companions to be re-released again from the part of the subscribers and from its fans since some really wanted to see those re-released in some shape or form because they are important part of the lore of this game which is a story centric MMO. Also devs would not probably release them again if they wouldn't have seen in their track records how a lot of the current subscribers don't have some of them yet.

 

But as I said before they should also offer something as an option to those which already got both.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Lunablade

[Joonbeams]

Lets be clear about something, BW in the previous offers stated only how they are the chance to get those companions in their time but never actually made any proclamation which would be legally binding and which would oblige it to never release those companions again. But I got it that some people could just interpret things on the wrong way.

 

I think how BW decided to make this move now based on all the requests for this companions to be re-released again from the part of the subscribers and from its fans since some really wanted to see those re-released in some shape or form because they are important part of the lore of this game which is a story centric MMO. Also devs would not probably release them again if they wouldn't have seen in their track records how a lot of the current subscribers don't have some of them yet.

 

But as I said before they should also offer something as an option to those which already got both.

 

Agreed and well put. It goes too far to say BW explicitly made, and broke, some promise to never release these again. It's also too much to accuse ppl who genuinely believed that these were one-time exclusives of being "foolish." It's also too much (IMO) to get overly outraged here on either side.

 

This all suggests to me a very easy way for situations like this to be handled, and it involves - you guessed it `- better communication from devs. There are any number of things that could be done in that regard. For example, "we hear you and we're looking into ways to reward subscribers who already have these companions as well." (Frankly even a token "KOTFE Original" is enough to at least show they even get it.) Or during the promotions say "rewards may reappear in the future". Etc.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Joonbeams

[Nothing_Shines]

I told myself that if Bioware re-released subscriber rewards they used to keep me subbing when they were releasing ZERO content, so that people who didn't support the game when things were desperate could swing by and get them at a later point, that would be it for me supporting the game through droughts.

 

Well, they did it, this is yet another drought, and I'm done being a reliable income source.

 

I now identify as a fair-weather sub. Continuous subscriber from February 2012 (minus about 1 month during a move) to now, cancelled. Let me know if you ever actually release more than 3 minutes of content for your story-based RPG, Bioware, or if you're giving out Founders medals to try and boost sub numbers on a certain date. I might re-sub for a month before vanishing again. Who cares, though, right?

[BRKMSN]

 

I think how BW decided to make this move now based on all the requests for this companions to be re-released again from the part of the subscribers and from its fans since some really wanted to see those re-released in some shape or form because they are important part of the lore of this game which is a story centric MMO. Also devs would not probably release them again if they wouldn't have seen in their track records how a lot of the current subscribers don't have some of them yet.

 

But as I said before they should also offer something as an option to those which already got both.

 

We've discussed this topic in other threads and at this point, there's no reason to re-visit much of that. This decision has me fully convinced they'll get the other rewards back out as well soon.

 

The most interesting part to me, however, is that nobody was really requesting that they bring them back in this way (as current subscriber rewards). We all saw the various suggestions of how people felt it could be done in a positive way. The reason I find this move interesting is it doesn't seem to have potential to add much revenue. The people that have been requesting this in the forums lately are obviously already subbing. So is this really helping drive the game forward economically? The initial reaction (probably overreaction) from current long time subs is a sense of betrayal ... for the two reasons you pointed out (promoted originally as one-time-only type rewards and then not to offer something else to subs that already have the rewards). Some are threatening to leave, some claim to have already canceled their recurring subs.

 

So ... I'm trying to understand how the decision to do this in this manner is a carefully thought out move. Some of the ideas that were discussed in older threads at least seemed reasonable even if some of us disagreed with bringing rewards back in the first place. Just based on what I'm reading now (after the announcement), it looks like there will probably be more cancelations than new subs ... at least for a month as some long-time players try to send a message.

 

The timing is bad. Many players are already disappointed in the conquest overhaul. This may have been a rushed decision to appease the players that will actually backfire.

[Lunablade]

The most interesting part to me, however, is that nobody was really requesting that they bring them back in this way (as current subscriber rewards). We all saw the various suggestions of how people felt it could be done in a positive way.

 

People which wanted them back proposed even this as one of the options of bringing them back in some threads.

 

The reason I find this move interesting is it doesn't seem to have potential to add much revenue. The people that have been requesting this in the forums lately are obviously already subbing. So is this really helping drive the game forward economically?

 

Yes some of them like me are still subbed but that subscription itself needs to be prolonged over time and people base their decisions will they continue subbing or not based on the fact are they happy with the game they are playing or not , and for some of us ( and me included ) this promotion was one of the reasons which made us to prolong it.

 

The initial reaction (probably overreaction) from current long time subs is a sense of betrayal ... for the two reasons you pointed out (promoted originally as one-time-only type rewards and then not to offer something else to subs that already have the rewards). Some are threatening to leave, some claim to have already canceled their recurring subs.

 

I said how in those promotions the characters were actually offered as a chance to get them for that time when they were offered and nowhere I did said as one time only forever..... . So nope BW actually didn't by doing this now broke any promise since it never obliged itself how it will never release them again in the first place.

 

When it comes to offering also something to those subscribers which have both of them than we agree on that point.

 

Just based on what I'm reading now (after the announcement), it looks like there will probably be more cancelations than new subs ... at least for a month as some long-time players try to send a message.

 

Well we can just speculate at this point what will be the results of the entire thing, for some people this is a good incentive to continue subbing and for some other to come back to the game.

 

Some long time players will not stop subbing to this game because of the decision of giving those two companions to other subs which still don't have them because they care about the overall state of the game and not just only about some particular things and like the game itself for the entire content it offers.

 

Also we don't know how many current subscribers actually don't have some of the companions offered in this promotion, my guess is that there are many still which don't have both and which will be now happy to get the one they are missing.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Lunablade

[BRKMSN]

People which wanted them back proposed even this as one of the options of bringing them back in some threads.

 

Of course they did, but most also offered suggestions to make it more appealing (i.e. suggested this would somehow bring in revenue if they did x)

 

Yes some of them like me are still subbed but that subscription itself needs to be prolonged over time and people base their decisions will they continue subbing or not based on the fact are they happy with the game they are playing or not , and for some of us ( and me included ) this promotion was one of the reasons which made us to prolong it.

... Interesting that it's okay to entice you to sub while causing others to quit. Also interesting that the argument that many people subbed in the past merely for the rewards was downplayed by those that didn't sub and didn't have them now, but were asking for them.

 

I said how in those promotions the characters were actually offered as a chance to get them for that time when they were offered and nowhere I did said as one time only forever..... . So nope BW actually didn't by doing this now broke any promise since it never obliged itself how it will never release them again in the first place.

 

When it comes to offering also something to those subscribers which have both of them than we agree on that point.

You misunderstand what I was saying. I wasn't saying you made those claims. I meant you acknowledged that others were under the impression.

 

 

Well we can just speculate at this point what will be the results of the entire thing, for some people this is a good incentive to continue subbing and for some other to come back to the game. Some long time players will not stop subbing to this game because of the decision of giving those two companions to other subs which still don't have them because they care about the overall state of the game and not just only about some particular things and like the game itself for the entire content it offers.

It seems you're arguing on both sides of the fence. You say people play for the main content, but have been a driving proponent of bringing these rewards back. You even claim in this post that it is enticing you to stay subbed, So those rewards that you downplay for those that already have them are, in fact, worth it to you to sub for now.

 

As I stated ... Interesting ...

Edited March 31, 2018 by BRKMSN

[Lunablade]

It seems you're arguing on both sides of the fence. You say people play for the main content, but have been a driving proponent of bringing these rewards back. You even claim in this post that it is enticing you to stay subbed, So those rewards that you downplay for those that already have them are, in fact, worth it to you to sub for now.

 

As I stated ... Interesting ...

 

I said how this promotion for me is one of the reasons why I prolonged my sub but I didn't said how it is the only reason and there is difference in that, but sure there are some people for which will this be main reason, because people which didn't had them actually did feel how they are missing on the content in this game , and the same content some other subscribers enjoyed for a long time now.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Lunablade

[Atalantia]

Well the wording in the original release of the two companions was "UNIQUE"

 

Now you can take that anyway you want but they are no longer after April 3rd or 5th or whenever "UNIQUE"

[Thruine]

I just resubbed myself due to this promotion. And I had quit because these such items weren't being offered again to players who were new to the game since they had last been offered. My feelings are that you shouldn't ask me to sub to your game and have content drought while holding on to any type of content because of some reward system. Back before I unsubbed (and quit playing until a week or so ago) when this was a discussion, I was basically told to shut up, pay my sub or not but I don't deserve anything because its just reserved for the "special" people who had supported the game back then. So, fine, I shut up. Like supporting the game NOW wasn't important.

 

Of course I laughed my *** off thinking about those people when news came out that SWTOR was being discussed for closing by EA. I thought, I bet those "exclusive" rewards will mean a whole lot if that actually does happen. I even contacted customer service before I left about why content is being withheld from paying subscribers of any type at that time. So, maybe I helped get these things given out again. I was around to see someone tell my what a baby I was for unsubbing. Typical SWTOR forum, right?

 

To be fair, I was talking about actual game play content. Not companions without a story where they become companions. But its cool. I was planning on subscribing as soon as they finished this traitor storyline to finally see it resolved. But I invite anyone who is upset to go play ESO for a bit. You'll get the pop up ads about 3 day only sales for items you can only get during that sale. Unless you keep playing and they'll offer them again for 3 days only. They have items they pull from their crown store, lasts chance to get and after pulled they'd pop up in their crates or some package deal. People are fools if they think anything in business is a one time only. Heck, most games even make their exclusive pre-order items available to everyone after the game launches.

 

The moaning and "they lied to us" crap is such bull. Its one reason I found it so easy to leave this game. The forum posters, especially the long time ones, are so exhausting with their whines and unfair cries whenever the game makes a misstep or tries to gain subscriptions. Like, forget getting new players, where's my loyalty payout? I have always wondered if you have such problems then leave. Do what I did and unsub if you are so unhappy already. Or like I was told, just shut up.

 

Like I siad, I actually thought these had some kind of game play to them. But thinking about it, that wouldn't be emailed. Sub now or a little over a month from now is no biggy. Sure, it would be nice if those that had these two got something but then you're already subscribed. New customers always get the shiny stuff to get them as customers in almost every type of business. I mean, really, if you all were truly loyal, there never would be talks to shut the game down (which I still think will happen when EA loses the Star Wars license... or not). You really should be glad they are doing anything to get new subscribers if the game is in such a state. But, like I said, this game of all the games I play have the whiniest and most selfish posters. I think even the WoW forum folks are better and there are millions there to complain and talk down to other players.

 

Hmm, I guess I'm not being that nice now myself. I really wish folks could just try to be nicer and more welcoming as I actually do like the game and think its not as bad as the forum would have you believe. But my guess people check the forums to see what the game complaints are before they start and this one is a huge turn off. You'd practically expect to have your machine blow up and BioWare to rob you in the night if you start playing. Does anyone know how many times BioWare has been accused of lying and stealing from their players or some other unfair treatment?

 

Get over yourself already. No subscriber is more important or should be catered to than any other no matter when they started playing. Loyalty to a game you don't enjoy if just stupid. It should be pissed on. And it will be in every game you ever play if you keep thinking your are somehow special because you jumped through some hoops two years ago. The only one lied to was you lying to yourself that you matter more. I'm just glad that they perhaps got more than my question about why they aren't giving everything possible to players to keep them. And if you truly are pissed off and quit (thus can't respond), hope the game remains around long enough for you to come back. And bye.

 

And since this forum is so bad, I don't think I'll bother with it this time around. I hunted down this topic specifically (because I knew it would be here) since I never got to respond to that one I got months back. Companions don't even mean that much to me (skipped that one they had just as I left knowingly) but free stuff for playing your game, sure, why not.

[BRKMSN]

I just resubbed myself due to this promotion. And I had quit because these such items weren't being offered again to players who were new to the game since they had last been offered....

 

Companions don't even mean that much to me (skipped that one they had just as I left knowingly) but free stuff for playing your game, sure, why not.

So you almost left the game forever because you didn't qualify for some rewards. You didn't qualify because you weren't here (or weren't paying to play). Now you're getting the rewards. I'm sure you'll be here for a long time now if not having 2 companions was enough to drive you away in the first place.

[Ardrossan]

So you almost left the game forever because you didn't qualify for some rewards. You didn't qualify because you weren't here (or weren't paying to play). Now you're getting the rewards. I'm sure you'll be here for a long time now if not having 2 companions was enough to drive you away in the first place.

 

I mean, admittedly there's some room for improvement in the arguments of those of us who [sort of, I guess?] want the free shiny stuff.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Ardrossan

[Khaleg]

Why are people just so extremely obnoxious and self-obsessed instead of being generous enough to grant stuff they got ages ago also to new players who weren't even around back then? This thread is an example of how patheitc some people are, really. What exactly do you lose? Anyone?

Of course it would also be nice if something additionallly was offered to loyal players who have these companions already, but it's Bioware people, they generally don't think thorougly about things. :-)

Edited March 31, 2018 by Khaleg

[bluehufsa]

I have everything. I want a new shiny too.

 

Sorry, had to get it out of my system.

 

I don't have Nico, wasn't subscribed or even playing back then. But yes, there should be "something" for the ones who have all the previous pokemons.. Vaylin & Revan, for example?

( sorry i'm kinda obsessed with Revan..)

[Mirandel]

I think I am joining doomsayers wagon - they are going to close the game after all.

Previously BW was adamant about exclusive rewards to stay exclusive - now it's not.

Previously subscription rewards were different every time and everyone could get something new - now it's not.

Adding to this all recklessness with story and gameplay - and I'd say they truly do not care anymore, like many games few months before closing.

[Lunablade]

I think I am joining doomsayers wagon - they are going to close the game after all.

 

You are entitled to your own opinion but its just that - an opinion and not a fact, I don't share it , and the news are out how we will be actually getting now a new expansion in 6.0. so that doesn't look to me how this game is going anywhere anytime soon.

 

Previously BW was adamant about exclusive rewards to stay exclusive - now it's not.

Previously subscription rewards were different every time and everyone could get something new - now it's not.

 

For one BW never stated how those companions which they are giving now are exclusive , for the other have you even thought that circumstances changed and how there were enough of subscribers which wanted to see those companions returned and how there could be a lot of current subscribers which dont have some of those companions and how thats the reason why are they giving them now ? Besides they are using them to entice the people to sub to the game just like they did the same thing with them in the past. But we are going now in the circle with this entire discussion because most of the comments here are just repeated, if you actually bothered to read this thread you would have seen that.

 

Adding to this all recklessness with story and gameplay - and I'd say they truly do not care anymore, like many games few months before closing.

 

There will always be people which will not like some parts of the story, but that doesn't mean how its poorly done nor that means how the devs don't care about the content. Gameplay is overall in a good shape , that's my POV but nothing is ever perfect and there is always a room for improvements.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Lunablade

[BRKMSN]

Why are people just so extremely obnoxious and self-obsessed instead of being generous enough to grant stuff they got ages ago also to new players who weren't even around back then? This thread is an example of how patheitc some people are, really. What exactly do you lose? Anyone?

Of course it would also be nice if something additionallly was offered to loyal players who have these companions already, but it's Bioware people, they generally don't think thorougly about things. :-)

And people say we're "elitists."

 

Your condemnation is noted. I suppose researching the actual arguments made would require more time than belittling people that don't think like you. So I'll give you the short version to save you time:

 

Players that enjoy this game and care about it's future have conflicting opinions about choices made by the team in charge. Some think bringing the old rewards around again is a good thing for newer players. Some disagree and feel that it sets a bad precedent for future promotions.

 

Yeah, I know, we are selfish elitists that only care about ourselves. How dare we not be generous and feel bad for the people that don't have everything and keep asking for it. They aren't selfish at all. Coveting is the new "noble."

[Lunablade]

Yeah, I know, we are selfish elitists that only care about ourselves. How dare we not be generous and feel bad for the people that don't have everything and keep asking for it. They aren't selfish at all. Coveting is the new "noble."

 

Interesting enough, I never had any impression how the people were asking on the forum for " everything " to be given to them, they were asking mostly for the specific companions which are an important part of the story and lore in the SWTOR which is an story driven MMO to be returned.

 

And that would be akin to the hypothetical situation for example if some of the subscribers in WoW which is an endgame centric MMO would be asking to get the access to some dungeons and raids because the access for them would be given only to some subscribers and not to all.

 

Also when the people proposed that , they said how they could be given under the same conditions under which they were obtained in the past.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Lunablade

[Thruine]

So you almost left the game forever because you didn't qualify for some rewards. You didn't qualify because you weren't here (or weren't paying to play). Now you're getting the rewards. I'm sure you'll be here for a long time now if not having 2 companions was enough to drive you away in the first place.

 

I have no idea how the rewards worked then. Until 2017, i never played the game before and had actually forgotten it even existed. I only discovered it after leaving the MMORPG I was solely playing then for something new.. I found out about the bonus chapter for the droid and made the mistake (unless I'm incorrect again) that these companions also had a bonus chapter to them. To me, dealing with a content drought in this game and them sitting on content (not items, items are meh) was a very bad decision and dealing with the responses from long time players, I figured yeah, I can see why this game struggles.

 

Like I said earlier, I was planning on subscribing once the traitor story was concluded but this just made me do so earlier than planned since I wanted to see that content. Then thinking about it, content isn't delivered by mail as far as I know so these are likely just another companion to add to your roster. I don't know who Nico is but I think he's the guy from the trailers and so there's no story why he joins your crew? The other I recognize but still no reasons why she's changed her mind would be actual things to play through.

 

In any case, these companions probably aren't going to be gaining a whole slew of new subscribers. They are probably enough to get anyone considering subscribing to do so (as in my case) which really current players should be happy for. But typically, happy for others never seems to be the case with SWTOR. And I know people hate hearing it, but how long either of us subscribe to a video game does not equate which of us is better than the other. If I do grab these goodies (which most likely will be a name I scroll through) aren't much use to me unless I'm playing the game and unless I'm just going to play a class story forever (not likely as I don't like a lot of them) then being a subscriber would make the most sense. So look at this way, if I do get these and quit again I'm not going to get to enjoy them so why would you be upset if I have them or not?