Combating Credit Inflation, increase tax of GTN? Patch Notes.

[RikuvonDrake]

Did you take into account people who buy credits from third parties, people who exploit and don't get caught (or successfully laundered before getting "caught"), and/or people who buy CC items for the express purpose of converting to credits on the GTN?

 

Increasing repair costs and reducing credit gains through questing hurts the people who are actually playing the game rather than the ******* who are actually responsible for the inflation. And taxing the GTN higher is going to also hurt those who are playing honestly by crafting/gathering.

 

So how do you want to reduce the inflation, by removing credits from inactive players? Nah that won't have any effect, sadly in this case you have to readjust the credit gain and circulation of credits for the active players, this first step with an increase in the GTN tax is something they will track to see how big the effect is. If it's deemed not enough, I would guess a reduction of credit gains from missions and possibly an increase in repair cost, although that will happen more and more as people get Legendary gear instead of blue/purple.

 

The people responsible for the credit inflation are the active players, players who farmed the bugged heroics throughout 4.0 and continue to do similar things now during 5.0, that along with the reduced amount of credit spent in general (abilities learned for free without cost at trainer, etc.) is why we have such ridiculous inflation. Exploits play a part, of course, but credits gained from that doesn't come even close to the amount gained by all players during the heroic frenzy.

 

Or, you could put those credits into finally making good on your "offer" from another thread.

 

Just a thought.

 

Alec has a reputation on EU servers, and based on that I wouldn't count on him ever upholding that.

Edited March 20, 2018 by RikuvonDrake

[TrixxieTriss]

Typical.

 

So it hits the poor and does absolutely nothing to the rich. All the rich will do is add that extra 2% to anything they sell and wait. The poor will just get poorer.

 

This is starting to sound a little too much like real life to me,

[Morteistno]

Can someone explain to me how this is going to combat inflation? I'm just going to make my items on the gtn cost higher to combat that increased tax rate man.

 

It makes sense, THe problem you have, like many is that you do not understand the root cause of inflation. Inflation is usually described as 'prices going up', but that is incorrect. The prices going up is a consequence of inflation of the money supply, just like in the real world.

 

Central banks keep on printing money -> prices go up. The first part is inflation, the second is the consequence of it.

 

Now in this case the GTN Tax Rate sucks money out of the system in a black hole. That money is gone and does not get back into the game economy. So it does lower the money supply which will reduce the overall increase in prices. Whether you are actually going to see prices go down is another matter as I think the rate at which money gets created in this game is still going to be higher than the rate at which it gets sucked out (*). But you may see a lowering in the rate at which prices go up.

 

(* it is hard to imagine otherwise, while technically feasible most people would find it very annoying to see their bank accounts go down, even if the purchasing value is higher. This is mostly mental conditioning in the fiat currency world we live in and not rational, but I guess the devs are not going to risk the massive outcry it would cause. )

[Andryah]

Here on the forums a very small but vocal group has advocated credit sinks to point of wanting to add repair costs to pvp matches. Past credit inflation was due to Bioware incurred vendor stack exploits. Now it is due to converting cartel coins to credits via auctioning of direct sale rare gear.

 

5.8's update is the latest in a succession of balance slicing we first saw last summer which had each class get slight reductions from their abilities. The fact each class got their abilities shaved slightly did not both me as much as it was mainly one class - merc/mando which was allowed to run rampant for almost a year - needed the nerf.

 

Except it does not add inflation to the servers. It is a zero sum as no credits are created in the process.... only credits moving from one player to another.

 

I don't really know if an extra 2% on GTN sales will soak enough credits for what some people want.. but IT IS a valid credit sink around one of the most active aspects of credit expenditures in the game... so it will help some.

[aerockyul]

So how do you want to reduce the inflation, by removing credits from inactive players? Nah that won't have any effect, sadly in this case you have to readjust the credit gain and circulation of credits for the active players, this first step with an increase in the GTN tax is something they will track to see how big the effect is. If it's deemed not enough, I would guess a reduction of credit gains from missions and possibly an increase in repair cost, although that will happen more and more as people get Legendary gear instead of blue/purple.

 

The people responsible for the credit inflation are the active players, players who farmed the bugged heroics throughout 4.0 and continue to do similar things now during 5.0, that along with the reduced amount of credit spent in general (abilities learned for free without cost at trainer, etc.) is why we have such ridiculous inflation. Exploits play a part, of course, but credits gained from that doesn't come even close to the amount gained by all players during the heroic frenzy.

 

I prefer the ideas people have floated about adding vendors that sell more expensive but desirable cosmetic items. I don't think people should be punished for "playing the game" (i.e. those heroics were released as intended, people just took advantage of them to a level that action had to be taken...almost like...an exploit...of a sort) BEFORE they go all out to punish people who gain outside of intended means, which they continue to give free reign through lax or non-existent enforcement.

 

A GTN tax seems like a great idea from someone who doesn't fathom how sellers, through the infinite kindness of their hearts, will only increase their costs, further hurting the players who never "cut corners" by gaining credits outside of the dev's intentions. (3rd party sellers, CC flippers, exploiters, cheaters, bots, macro-users, etc.)

 

I've mentioned this in other threads before, but it's almost like I'm ******* stupid for NOT getting in on that sweet action that they don't punish or where real punishment is easily avoidable.

With my particular luck, though, I could spend $3 for 10mil credits to buy an armor set that I've wanted for three years and they'd ban me harder, faster, and more effectively than people exploiting the game for years that continue to come back as if nothing happened.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Need something more and better than that. Personally I don't give two cent about companions. Level 15 or so is enough to do anything solo apart from the insane Master Mode chapters. I'd be more than willing to pay for cosmetic items I can show off to others comparable with what we get from cartel market. :l Similar credit sink was in the game and it was a time-limited thing when the vendor sold insanely rare and expensive korrealis mounts as well as white crystals.

 

Its for crafters man, not how they operate while playing. At 50 affection, you get more crits with crafting. When that is for items that sell for alot, and have expensive mats, crafting a bonus item helps a crafter alot.

 

If your not into crafting for profit, then no, the artifact comp affection unlock is not for you.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

This is a good step in the right direction to handle the credit inflation, hopefully, this is followed by increased repair costs and/or a reduction of credit gain from quests and other content The amount of credits that is circulating today and maybe most importantly, how quickly you can gain them is really ruining the economy.

 

Do you actually think, the whales worry about repair costs? I mean I generally have just 100m in my legacy bank, by no means a whale, and repair costs are a joke.

 

The only people you will hurt raising repair costs are casuals that don't have, or havent figured out how to make millions.

 

Seriously, if you think changing repair costs is going to affect whales, I mean I don't mean to be snarky, but that is funny.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

So how do you want to reduce the inflation, by removing credits from inactive players? Nah that won't have any effect, sadly in this case you have to readjust the credit gain and circulation of credits for the active players, this first step with an increase in the GTN tax is something they will track to see how big the effect is. If it's deemed not enough, I would guess a reduction of credit gains from missions and possibly an increase in repair cost, although that will happen more and more as people get Legendary gear instead of blue/purple.

 

The people responsible for the credit inflation are the active players, players who farmed the bugged heroics throughout 4.0 and continue to do similar things now during 5.0, that along with the reduced amount of credit spent in general (abilities learned for free without cost at trainer, etc.) is why we have such ridiculous inflation. Exploits play a part, of course, but credits gained from that doesn't come even close to the amount gained by all players during the heroic frenzy.

 

 

 

Alec has a reputation on EU servers, and based on that I wouldn't count on him ever upholding that.

 

Or they could do what NWN did, and make some seriously expensive companions from story characters. Like Satele Shan, or Malgus as a companion for like 100m.

 

That would help fight inflation more then adding a measly 2% to GTN cost, or repair costs lol.

[CaptRogue]

Glad you don’t care about leveling your companions past lvl 15 for PvE however for crafting a lvl 50 Pet has it’s time to complete missions or items reduced by 75% and it’s Crit chance increased by 25% and with the cost of mats for crafting those Crits are important as well as the increased speed...

 

If you're using the Legendary Gifts from the Vendor, you're doing it WAY wrong mate!

 

I have numerous companions with 8 50 Comps...You sell the legendary gifts on the GTN & purchase the purple grade 5 (or is it 6? I forget.) for the companions.

Also the GTN is way cheaper than that vendor.

 

Can't believe anyone actually uses that vendor. lol

[CKNORTH]

If you're using the Legendary Gifts from the Vendor, you're doing it WAY wrong mate!

 

I have numerous companions with 8 50 Comps...You sell the legendary gifts on the GTN & purchase the purple grade 5 (or is it 6? I forget.) for the companions.

Also the GTN is way cheaper than that vendor.

 

Can't believe anyone actually uses that vendor. lol

 

10k credits for artifact class 5 companion gift on the NPC Vender, you are way mixed up last I look everyone is selling those comp gifts between 20k-100k each on the GTN. Also seeing at those prices and my level 28 Guardisn who has 3 x level 50 companions and no access to Odessan is pretty much doing ok...

Edited March 20, 2018 by CKNORTH

[Pscyon]

Just saw this as well. Gee thanks, Bioware. I did feel things weren't expensive enough. Maybe you could start charging us for using quick travel and taxing our strongholds while you're at it. And I'm sure there's registration and docking fees for our ships you've been letting slide for too long.

[Andryah]

A GTN tax seems like a great idea from someone who doesn't fathom how sellers, through the infinite kindness of their hearts, will only increase their costs, further hurting the players who never "cut corners" by gaining credits outside of the dev's intentions. (3rd party sellers, CC flippers, exploiters, cheaters, bots, macro-users, etc.)

 

2% will soak billions of credits from the servers, but it will not materially impact prices. Nobody is going to notice a 2% price increase... but as a major GTN reseller... I simply price at a % below market and I don't worry about markups to cover sales expenses. Why not, you ask? Because I buy low, hold for later after dumping at absurd low prices end, and then begin selling at market prices.

 

Now.. the term "inflation" is a loaded word with the forum.. because it means something different to everyone. There actually is not a lot of price inflation on general goods and items in the GTNs. It is only the super rare collectors market where there is notable inflation in prices. But inflation in prices in this segment of the market is for the wealthy collectors.. and so as in real life... so it works in game... the wealthy collect anything they want.

 

Actual credits supply in game of course increases over time... particularly since the studio did away with all the vanilla credit sinks like training way back in 4.0. But the fact is most wealthy players are not spending their credits, but parking them in their wallets.. or spending on the occasional luxury item....so they have no real effect on the general goods and items segment of the markets.

[TrixxieTriss]

There are better ways to fix inflation in the game and this won’t fix inflation because it is only a credit sink. Keith recently said in his podcast that he would like to see more credit sinks in the game.

 

They could combat inflation in lots of different ways. A good way is to devalue the currency. One way to do that is to drop the cost of all in game items. But that’s not combating the amount of credits in the game and goes against Keith’s plans for credit sinks. So that is out of the question.

 

Another way is to reduce the cost of popular items on the CM by targeting the ones that sell the most expensively on the GTN. More people are likely to buy them if they cheaper, which devalues them on the GTN. Every subs gets atleast 500cc a month. If those items were sold at 400-500cc for 1 and a half months, people who really want them will buy them and open them in collections.

Once those people have them opened, then Bioware can look at increasing the price latter on and drop it again if needed. This will devalue them on the GTN because demand will be lower and there will be heaps on the GTN because people buy them in the hope of selling for millions later on. The more on the GTN, the lower the price drops and the more people in the game will buy them too. Soon they aren’t worth 100million credits because demand drops and those sellers won’t get it.

As long as Bioware watch the GTN market, they can keep a lid on this sort of inflation by targeting specific items. But while ever they decide to sell sort after items on the CM at much higher prices than others, they are fueling the inflation themselves and actually making it easy for third party credit sellers to make enough easy credits to then sell back to players.

 

Flip side of the coin argument.

(Some info first. My early career was in retail and I climbed the ladder to be a state manager in a large Aussie retailer, so I’m approaching this from my extensive experience in retail sales, retail marketing, retail planning and retail customer behaviours)

I know there will be the argument that Bioware would make less money off the CM if they reduce the cost. But I disagree. I think more people are likely to buy more CC if the cost of the items they want are lower. You can get 10 people buying at 1000cc or 50 buying at 500cc. Yes, 500 cc is the subs monthly CC allowance, but lots of people may have already used them or there are a few items they really want.

Here are the current costs to buy coins

250 Cartel Coins $2.99 USD, 450 Cartel Coins $4.99 USD, 1050 Cartel Coins $9.99 USD, 2400 Cartel Coins $19.99 USD, 5500 Cartel Coins $39.99

I think people are more likely to spend $3-$5 to top up some extra CC to buy items at 500 CC, than spend $20-40 to buy digital bling items that cost 2400 CC, especially the way this game is tracking.

Also, the more CC you buy, the bigger the discount Bioware gives. So if people buy the lower amounts, it costs Bioware less in discounts

None of us know how many people spend $40 at a time vs $5. If I was to guess, more probably spend $20 because you can’t buy many good things for 250-450 CC. But I believe Bioware would end up getting many more spending money buying $3-$5 CC purchases if things were cheaper on the CC. 10x $5 is better than 1x $20 or 1x $40

One thing I know from retail is you need to price items to generate the highest demand. If the price is too high, it doesn’t matter how much people want it, only the rich or the silly will buy it, that means a lot less turn over for the business and a lot less money. If you price something lower and generate huge demand, you make a lot more money.

My company was successful because we understood that and tried to balance it. In my position between the front line retail and the executives, I had an active roll is price strategy and product demand planning. When the execs pushed to hard for higher prices for bigger margins, products wouldn’t move fast and they would complain we had too much stock. When myself and others convinced them to reposition the price, we would sell all the stock and create demand for the product and sometimes run out before we could restock. (It’s a balancing act so you don’t run out of stock). But Bioware doesn’t have a stock problem because it’s digital. A lower price should make people buy more and more often.

The Devs aren’t retailers and the execs are greedy and don’t really understand customers (which is evident at EA), so they may not even understand this retail approach to selling. I really hope Bioware read this and look into what I’ve said using other retail information to see if it makes sense for their model (one size hardly ever fits all)

 

IMO, this would be the best and easiest mechanism Bioware could use to decrease inflation in the game. Credit sinks are a whole other issue and have nothing to do with the Cartel market. So other mechanisms can be used to fix that seperate problem.

 

One type of credit sink is for high cost vendor vanity items that are character bound on pick up, not legacy bound. These could be ones that require millions and millions to buy, maybe tens of millions. They also need be the sort of Bling those credit whales would want and maybe items that show their wealth (ego). They should also not be readily available in the rest of the game to make them appear valuable, but should still be in it as ultra, ultra rare drops or achievements. For instance, it could be a drop from any OP boss or FP boss in the game, but the drop rate could be so low that it’s like winning the lottery in real life.

 

Adding an extra tax to the GTN isn’t an inflation fix and will only drive inflation up, not down. IT IS A CREDIT SINK and I think Bioware should call it what it really is and not try and say it’s to combat inflation, which it won’t.

I’m actually all for them adding more credit sinks into the game as long as they are targeting the credit whales only and not the average player who doesn’t have 50+million credits.

Edited March 20, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[JakRoanin]

We need more in game vendors and merchandise! The GTN can't do everything.

[Sharkhonn]

It is just too easy to make credits in this game. Honestly an increase on gtn tax is not that big of a deal. The only folks who will be affected in any significant way are those that have yet to figure out how to make credits.

 

 

Put in the time and level those crafters and companions. You will make more than enough credits for those high priced items in your wish list. If you do just a small amount of searching these forums you will find loads of ways to make credits and not care about gtn tax.

[Ardrossan]

I don't really care either way, but what I would like is an in-game bit of a story for why they're doing it. Like the Hutt Cartel has gone broke after the events of KOTFE/ET and needs the extra capital.

 

I would be fine with charging for quick travel and other stuff like that, even SH travel, as long as it started at 50+. Again, an in-game reason for why that is happening would be good.

[DragonArt]

How about actually putting some effort into getting rid of credit sellers.

 

I would love to see the character customization thing have the option to use in game money. I for one would use it far more. There are many things that are now CC only and I just ignore them. Am sure many others do too. Plenty of POSITIVE opportunities to create credit sinks.

[CKNORTH]

How about actually putting some effort into getting rid of credit sellers.

 

I would love to see the character customization thing have the option to use in game money. I for one would use it far more. There are many things that are now CC only and I just ignore them. Am sure many others do too. Plenty of POSITIVE opportunities to create credit sinks.

 

Yeah, but I think there is an overgrown feeling of frustration... And considering that EQ... Of all games has over 1200 people playing on one server perhaps more right at this very second, I just logged in there and there is between 3-4 Chanel's of general chat that cap at 400 people.. EQ 19 year old game. I am on Satele Shan, currently 27 people in their SH.... I for one think the market is so stagnated prices are just going to be pretty silly. Not much we can do when we can't even compete with E. Freaking. Q...

[SootyTX]

Yeah, but I think there is an overgrown feeling of frustration... And considering that EQ... Of all games has over 1200 people playing on one server perhaps more right at this very second, I just logged in there and there is between 3-4 Chanel's of general chat that cap at 400 people.. EQ 19 year old game. I am on Satele Shan, currently 27 people in their SH.... I for one think the market is so stagnated prices are just going to be pretty silly. Not much we can do when we can't even compete with E. Freaking. Q...

 

As a pre-kunark EQ player I'd appreciate a PM with info on the EQ server that is still pulling in those numbers. The potential of classic WoW servers pale in comparison to old EQ gameplay.

 

As far as the original point of this thread, the claims of GTN warriors stating they will simply increase prices to compensate (which, frankly, is bs as prices fluctuate massively more than 2% based on server variables almost daily, and so will their prices if they half a brain cell) does nothing to negate the point of the increase which is to remove credits from the gamespace. Whether they increase prices or not to compensate their personal bank balances is beyond irrelevant

[CKNORTH]

As a pre-kunark EQ player I'd appreciate a PM with info on the EQ server that is still pulling in those numbers. The potential of classic WoW servers pale in comparison to old EQ gameplay.

 

As far as the original point of this thread, the claims of GTN warriors stating they will simply increase prices to compensate (which, frankly, is bs as prices fluctuate massively more than 2% based on server variables almost daily, and so will their prices if they half a brain cell) does nothing to negate the point of the increase which is to remove credits from the gamespace. Whether they increase prices or not to compensate their personal bank balances is beyond irrelevant

 

PM sent I am logged in currently just replay in the PM forgot to give you my character name Lol. apologize for being a tad off topic.

[IoNonSoEVero]

It would also help if they'd make more of the in-demand things in the GTN permanently available. They added some decos (some of which were selling for millions) as permanent rewards for flashpoints. If they did more of that - not just adding something to the Cartel Market for a week, but making it something that could be earned in all play modes or bought from a vendor - it would cut down on the GTN gouging.

 

The commemorative statues, for instance - why not give those as a reward for getting a companion to Level 50 influence?

[AngFour]

I'm on board with cosmetic credit sinks.

 

ESO has two weekly vendors (only available Friday-Sunday). One vendor sells luxury furnishings priced from 5K-50K. Every week is different. And it takes about a year for the stuff to cycle back (disgruntled about that because I meant to buy a couple neat items and then forgot about it. Gotta wait for at least a year now).

 

The other vendor sells a couple gold pieces of set equipment (shoulder pieces). Also that vendor will sell gold set jewelry (which you can't craft or even upgrade jewelry like you can with armor/weapons there). THOSE go for a couple hundred thousand gold or a few hundred thousand AP (PvP currency).

 

THAT is how you do credit/gold sinks. Not some lame tax hike. Let us buy things we WANT (cool cosmetics/SH items), not punish us for using the GTN.

Edited March 20, 2018 by AngFour

[CKNORTH]

It would also help if they'd make more of the in-demand things in the GTN permanently available. They added some decos (some of which were selling for millions) as permanent rewards for flashpoints. If they did more of that - not just adding something to the Cartel Market for a week, but making it something that could be earned in all play modes or bought from a vendor - it would cut down on the GTN gouging.

 

The commemorative statues, for instance - why not give those as a reward for getting a companion to Level 50 influence?

 

Or a better idea just leave the Night Life Casino year round with really nice high end items... It's a good credit sink some people just like to gamble...

 

Well I know I would like to gamble in game ALL the Time! Lol

[AngFour]

Or a better idea just leave the Night Life Casino year round with really nice high end items... It's a good credit sink some people just like to gamble...

 

Well I know I would like to gamble in game ALL the Time! Lol

 

I also agree with this. Those slot machines should always be active and have them cycle out the the prizes every 6-12 months. I blew through a TON of credits during the last event, just so I could get a mount that I never actually use, lol.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Or a better idea just leave the Night Life Casino year round with really nice high end items... It's a good credit sink some people just like to gamble...

 

Well I know I would like to gamble in game ALL the Time! Lol

 

That would help too, and they could rotate the prizes, or have additional ones (cartel certificates, etc.).

 

They could also add similar games on worlds other than Nar Shaddaa - games in Tatooine, the fleets, etc. In a lot of the cantinas you visit they have non-working slot machines...make them work!