Keith's 3/4/2018 Interview with the Bad Feeling Podcast

[DWho]

I liked the Alliance while it lasted/mattered, though to me it seems like a lingering cold at this point.

I loved having companions such as Vette in my team, having Quinn on my SI, getting Arcann, Senya to join you! But it feels like it's time to move on.

 

As long as there is the Alliance, there will always be just one story, and basically one outcome, with "maybe" a different path leading there.

Sounds lackluster to me.

 

Why would you want to slaughter those precious dogs? Sounds pretty morbid to me.

 

Ideally I'd like to have dark side Arcann, and rampage the galaxy. Both on the throne for business and such. cough*

And rule!

 

It's my ideal Sith fantasy.

 

The Alliance ending was very un-Jedi like (I guess sort of like the story arc didn't fit non-Force users all that well). A true light side Jedi would never have taken the throne. It would have been nice if you could have refused it and nominated someone else as an option even if you were still the chief trouble shooter. It would have "felt" better.

[IoNonSoEVero]

The thing about the Alliance being just one story...I don't' see that. There are so many different factions out in the galaxy that they could delve into if they wanted and had some imagination. They could have more conflict within the Alliance itself (as mentioned in other posts, realistically certain recruits would have prompted other recruits to leave). The Star Cabal. Darth Jadus. Renegade knights. More people like the Zildrog chums. There are so many groups the Alliance could fight without getting dragged back into the factions.

 

That IMHO is far more interesting than going back to "Red flag fights blue flag!"

[Farferello]

I've no desire to go back to Imp v's Pub but if that's what they force on us then I'd hope that my Imps that defected to the Republic can join them, because they certainly want nothing to do with the Empire. Hence why they defected in the first place.

[Paulsutherland]

The thing about the Alliance being just one story...I don't' see that. There are so many different factions out in the galaxy that they could delve into if they wanted and had some imagination. They could have more conflict within the Alliance itself (as mentioned in other posts, realistically certain recruits would have prompted other recruits to leave). The Star Cabal. Darth Jadus. Renegade knights. More people like the Zildrog chums. There are so many groups the Alliance could fight without getting dragged back into the factions.

 

That IMHO is far more interesting than going back to "Red flag fights blue flag!"

 

^^^

 

What he said!

[Eshvara]

The Alliance ending was very un-Jedi like (I guess sort of like the story arc didn't fit non-Force users all that well). A true light side Jedi would never have taken the throne. It would have been nice if you could have refused it and nominated someone else as an option even if you were still the chief trouble shooter. It would have "felt" better.

 

Yeah, I did find it a bit sad you did not get to choose whether you wanted the throne or not.

 

^^^

 

What she said!

 

She*

Edited March 6, 2018 by Eshvara

[Paulsutherland]

She*

 

Really? this is like the fifth time I've made that mistake ... okay ... you're all female from now on!

[Eshvara]

Really? this is like the fifth time I've made that mistake ... okay ... you're all female from now on!

 

There are males on these forums?😐

 

The thing about the Alliance being just one story...I don't' see that. There are so many different factions out in the galaxy that they could delve into if they wanted and had some imagination. They could have more conflict within the Alliance itself (as mentioned in other posts, realistically certain recruits would have prompted other recruits to leave). The Star Cabal. Darth Jadus. Renegade knights. More people like the Zildrog chums. There are so many groups the Alliance could fight without getting dragged back into the factions.

 

That IMHO is far more interesting than going back to "Red flag fights blue flag!"

 

More conflict within the alliance of what though? More traitors and betrayers? All the things you mentioned, you can do faction sided too, and you'd still have more of a variation in terms of outcome when it comes to story.

I understand that we all have different tastes and that some prefer the alliance and some do not however. Personally the Alliance and everything to do with it just doesn't seem like something that would entertain me any longer, and it hasn't after kotet.

 

It would be great if everyone got what they want, but if that isn't possible, what offers the most still *to me* seems like the best choice.

But yeah again, different opinions. (Not trying to say yours is wrong btw)

[vianiel]

Galaxy is huge. It might not need to be yet another superweapon storyline, but I'd like to see the Alliance take on a new faction or organization (that are good at what they do). Something new.

 

If we're following the story, the galaxy's resources are running low, and they can't keep on warring each other. With this being said, I'd like either Republic or Empire finally be defeated. Long shot I know, but I'd like the story to progress wider than just Red Flag vs Blue Flag.

 

Because honestly, I'm bored of Rep vs Imp.

Edited March 6, 2018 by vianiel

[RandomName_Ru]

Looks like BW writing team forgot why instant “I win” buttons never end up in the hands of the PC for a long time (especially if said player can be evil) – and now they are in the corner because of it.

 

And what's up with all that “building the Alliance”? We are back to shooting each other? Then why KofTE had that secondary plot about overcoming differences, learning to respect each other, enemies becoming allies and friends?

 

*sign

Edited March 6, 2018 by RandomName_Ru

[Eshvara]

Looks like BW writing team forgot why instant “I win” buttons never end up in the hands of the PC for a long time (especially if said player can be evil) – and now they are in the corner because of it.

 

And what's up with all that “building the Alliance”? We are back to shooting each other? Then why KofTE had that secondary plot about overcoming differences, learning to respect each other, enemies becoming allies and friends?

 

*sign

 

I think it was more a, The enemy of my enemy" situation. I know there was that whole Marr in the forest time, but that didn't make any sense either way.🤐

[Paulsutherland]

I think it was more a, The enemy of my enemy" situation. I know there was that whole Marr in the forest time, but that didn't make any sense either way.🤐

 

Had they of had a chapter that followed up on that plot then maybe it would have made sense.

[Eshvara]

Had they of had a chapter that followed up on that plot then maybe it would have made sense.

 

Even for my operative? 😐 It was the first class I did kotfe with.

[Paulsutherland]

Even for my operative? 😐 It was the first class I did kotfe with.

 

I don't know?! Maybe if they bring Sana-Rea (Voss Lady) into it somehow it'll make more sense.

[DarthSpuds]

The concept was great, it was just poorly executed. .

 

A force centred mono-story for eight classes, four of which don't use the force was a "great concept"?

 

Really?

 

Really, really?

 

 

All The Best

[RandomName_Ru]

I think it was more a, The enemy of my enemy" situation. I know there was that whole Marr in the forest time, but that didn't make any sense either way.🤐

 

Started like "enemy of my enemy".

 

But if you rank up influence with Alliance Specialists, they talk about everyone becoming united. Aigo, for example, goes from talking about constant tensions to talking about Imps and Pubs shaking hands before going on mission.

 

Add to it ambient dialog (paraphrased):

 

“That private is a real piece of work, but he is a good shoot!”

“Imps are not that bad. Well if they are not shooting at you.”

“I kinda hope that this Alliance will last. We do more then Republic ever did.”

“It's really peaceful here.”

“I like the air here. Much better then humidity Dromund Kaas.” (Awwww, they talk about whether! Its a start I guess?)

“Nice place, steady income of credits, whats more to want?”

“We stand united.”

Edited March 6, 2018 by RandomName_Ru

[Paulsutherland]

A force centred mono-story for eight classes, four of which don't use the force was a "great concept"?

 

Really?

 

Really, really?

 

 

All The Best

 

No, the single story sucked but the idea behind Zakuul was great.

[IoNonSoEVero]

 

More conflict within the alliance of what though? More traitors and betrayers? All the things you mentioned, you can do faction sided too, and you'd still have more of a variation in terms of outcome when it comes to story.

I understand that we all have different tastes and that some prefer the alliance and some do not however. Personally the Alliance and everything to do with it just doesn't seem like something that would entertain me any longer, and it hasn't after kotet.

 

It would be great if everyone got what they want, but if that isn't possible, what offers the most still *to me* seems like the best choice.

But yeah again, different opinions. (Not trying to say yours is wrong btw)

 

Hey. thanks for the backup on the wrong gender thing! Appreciate it.

 

Neither opinion is wrong, no, it's all just friendly discourse. When it comes down to it, we do all want what will entertain *us* the most as we play our game.

 

I think there's a lot of scope for legit conflict within the Alliance - what to focus on next; the Alliance's relationship with Zakuul; etc.

 

The thing about returning to Imps vs. Rep is that every other conflict is against that backdrop, and it means that the player is working for their interests, not whatever they might want personally. Also, the problems I see, which have been brought up before :

 

- anything is a step down for our character. For some this is fine, but for others (like me), we don't want to go back to answering to someone else. So unless they kill off the current faction leader and let us take over the entire faction, it's going backward.

- We'd likely lose at least some companions. For some this might be fine, but for others...for instance if you love Theron and still want to be Imperial, or love Lana and want to be Republic, that's an issue. Koth or Arcann might want to stay in Zakuul.

- We'd lose places like Odessen and Zakuul, which could be expanded upon to be more interesting.

[ForfiniteStories]

Those guys were a little weird for being excited for a level cap increase, new gear, expertise, and a new Op. I mean, out of all the things you can ask for and be excited for, you choose those?

 

Who wants to have all their hard-earned progress reset? And what kind of masochist enjoys putting themselves through the hardest content in an MMO? Well, apparently these people exist. But it begs the questions as to why they are playing SWTOR and not World of Warcraft, the latter of which is all about that ****.

 

I just hope Bioware takes their opinion with a grain of salt, because they certainly don't speak for everyone, let alone the majority.

Edited March 6, 2018 by ForfiniteStories

[Paulsutherland]

Hey. thanks for the backup on the wrong gender thing! Appreciate it.

 

Sorry, that was me.

[DarthSpuds]

No, the single story sucked but the idea behind Zakuul was great.

 

I suppose that assumes we both have the same understanding of what exactly "the idea behind Zakuul" was, and was supposed to be.

 

Zakuul had a kernel or two of good ideas - all of them delivered as cheaply and uninspiring as possible.

 

To me Zakuul was a cheap knock-off of the failed Matrix in the Matrix Trilogy - a world where every need and happiness was catered for but which people rejected because it offered only stagnant boredom. It wasn't particularly well realised and it was less than well articulated. As agents (not the class) within that world we had next to no opportunity to explore that world beyond the railroaded encounters we were forced to endure, and this made that world flat, one dimensional and inane in the extreme.

 

Had it been an open world design with "Exploration" missions, some of which were dependent upon Class and Original Faction (because I really don't care what anyone says - Star Wars without the Imp vs Rep dynamic IS NOT Star Wars) and so allowed us to explore this "broken paradise" theme through varied lenses (NPCs giving those quests) it would have been immeasurably improved.

 

I liked the idea of a Non Light vs Dark relationship with The Force, but the vehicle for that, The Knights Of Zakuul - fanatics in service of an entity that everyone knew was firmly rooted in that Light vs Dark relationship with The Force weakened that aspect to the point of it being nothing more than a bad, comedic trope. Had Valkorian been a genuine outsider, a genuine new entity then it may have worked. It could have been made more workable by allowing our Characters to adopt this Non Light vs Dark relationship with The Force - but that would have required more work, work EA was clearly not going to fund, and that Bioware was clearly incapable of delivering.

 

Of course all of this playing with a Non Light vs Dark force was completely undone when the only option Bioware could deliver to offer some respite from the content drought was the Light vs Dark event. You simply can NOT push out the KofFE/ET Story that tries to deal with the Non Light vs Dark theme and then use the LvD event as the filler in the FE / ET sandwich. Whoever made that decision should have been sacked.

 

And back to Valkorion - he tells us in the first Throne Room encounter that we The Player / Outlander had been the ONLY entity that had ever come close to achieving the same power has him; and then spends the next 18 months throwing us around like a puppet on a string. Lana and Theron and Koth and numerous others tell us we are the ONLY person capable of challenging Valkorion and then they too treat us like a puppet on a string.

 

Either this total lack of agency by our character was fully intentional, in which case the concept behind FE/ET was absolutely bloody awful and should never have got beyond the storyboard phase; or it was accidental, in which case the ENTIRE Bioware Austin team is incompetent to a degree I find hard to even imagine.

 

I have played 8 toons through KotFE/ET - and two through Iokath. One toon has completed every Alliance Alert. And in all of that "content", most of it played numerous times I am yet to find one, even one single, redeeming aspect at all.

 

I see the hints of many things that Bioware could have done that could, and arguably should, have not only redeemed KotFE/ET but made them great expansions to Star Wars - and every single one of those things was quite obviously deliberately refused.

 

When we got to Odessan where we team up with that had been The Other Faction (TOF) and later Iokath whrere we can chose to actually fight for TOF why was the next logical step refused? Why were not allowed to actually defect to TOF?

 

My Sage is 100% Lightside, never had a single Darkside point. And after Saresh's betrayal and Acina's assistance he sided with the Imps on Iokath and would - if it were allowed - defect. Not because he is suddenly "dark" but because as the story unwound he found more honour among the Imps, and Honour to him underpins what it means to be a Jedi, especially a Light Side Jedi. So he would defect, and would as the former barsenthor attempt to "redeem the Empire" by seeking to temper that Honour with Humanity.

 

Yes, things like this would take resources, and considerable effort, and more importantly competent story writers (something that has clearly been lacking since the 2nd half of KotFE) but if each player were able to experience something like that it would - arguably - be some of the very best MMORPG gaming ever.

 

It could be done, with a soft return to Imp vs Rep in - what MUST be - a Post Iokath/Eternal Fleet/Eternal Alliance galaxy. And then have a swathe of daily and weekly quests that have genuine Choices That Matter™ - the outcome of which affects which Faction you move towards. Have it like a Reputation Scale, that your choices move you along toward one faction or the other.

 

The ONLY thing stopping Star Wars The Old Republic being as epic as every genuine fan knows it can be, and wants it to be, is EA/Bioware clearly don't want that, and haven't for quite some time.

 

 

All The Best

[Milishor]

Keith, I’m sure you’re probably following this thread.... .

 

im pretty sure at this point, that he is not....otherwise they wouldnt force me to be some rep lap dog again....or imp executioner....or just some forgotten pew pew person who was once a commander of armies , a whole fleet and stuff....yeah...remember we had our own planet?...i dont either , but im sure the rep/imp leaders will appreciate our experience in leadership...

 

/sarcasm off

[McBaal]

im pretty sure at this point, that he is not....otherwise they wouldnt force me to be some rep lap dog again....or imp executioner....or just some forgotten pew pew person who was once a commander of armies , a whole fleet and stuff....yeah...remember we had our own planet?...i dont either , but im sure the rep/imp leaders will appreciate our experience in leadership...

 

/sarcasm off

 

Depends on the character. I can totally see a light side Jedi to step down and rejoin the order in case the alliance starts to fall apart from the inside when old fronts and ressentments reemerge. But not my Sith characters, especially not my Inquisitor. From a slave to a dark council member and now empress of Zakuul / the Eternal Alliance. Never ever would she bow to anyone else again, never ever be just another agent of the Sith empire. She'd rather push the galaxy into another war and see everything burn to the ground than to kneel.

So the big trick is to take out the alliance as a faction without deminishing the PC into another agent out of many again. Since the Eternal fleet is automated and AI dependent, the best way to do so imo would be that the commander / emperer / empress somehow looses control over the fleet or the droids turn against her. So he / she is forced to take them offline and they get destroyed during this storyline. The PC would still have a considerable amount of followers, but by turning former Imps and Reps within the alliance against each another even this powerhorse could fall apart. So that in the end the PC has to choose:

 

Light side:

Team up with the former Imps against the Reps / Team up with the former Reps against the Imps

 

Dark side:

Let everything burn and kill everyone who let you down and ruined your empire

 

With the field now cleaned the next story arc could begin. In case of Light side the PC already sided with one faction and helps to rebuild / prepare for the next war.

In case of the Dark side choice the PC would need to be convinced / begged / payed to help out.

 

But i dont see how something like this could be realized with the limited ressources left and during flashpoints.

[Solaece]

A new operation??? Omg omg omg omg we get to do something new OMG omg omg.

 

Wait. Like. A whole NEW operation right? Like. One NEW entire operation? Omg omg omg.

 

Maybe one with three actual levels as opposed to stupid easy vs insanely difficult and nothing in between for real people? No wonder the ordinary person hates operations like God's...story mode is a walk in the park and I'm betting most have never even cleared hm TYTH.

 

And for heavens same bring back the real names. Story hard and nightmare.

[RandomName_Ru]

im pretty sure at this point, that he is not....otherwise they wouldnt force me to be some rep lap dog again....or imp executioner....or just some forgotten pew pew person who was once a commander of armies , a whole fleet and stuff....yeah...remember we had our own planet?...i dont either , but im sure the rep/imp leaders will appreciate our experience in leadership...

 

I am suuuuure they will .

 

Heh, you can hit me with a wet fish, but I never believed that Commanders who posses ability to command and may want to command is written in a way that shows that they are capable of commanding. Maybe it is time to put them out of the misery?

 

Arcann: “I was never fit to rule.”

 

LS PC: “I keep telling everyone that I never wanted to!”

They will continue to ignore you.

 

Neutral PC: “Me too.”

No one cares, but no worries, your decisions will not matter, so you will not do much harm. Yay?

 

DS PC: “Where is the manual? I have a long list.”

You will not find the manual.

 

/sarcasm off

No, no, no, do not turn that off! It is not possible to survive the story as it is now without it!

Edited March 6, 2018 by RandomName_Ru

[LamiaKan]

I’m tired of the Imp vs Pub. Old war is old. It’s enough that I’m forced to side with one of them on Iokath. I shudder at the idea of taking orders from Acina and Malcolm or whoever the faction leaders are. That will be regression for my characters. Even those that don’t want to lead or take the throne don’t want to fight for either. I hope we can still keep the alliance and have some semblance of independence.