Why is the KOTFE & KOTET story so terrible?

[LordArtemis]

Well, I would disagree. I found the stories fantastic and engaging. The trash was annoying, and the forced solo mode, removal of companions spoiled it for me...but the story itself was great.

 

I have to say, however, I think I have enough of it. It was good, but like RotHC it needs to come to an end. Its getting a bit old at this point.

[Jabakla]

My grip with KOFTE was that they basically took a dump on your past, thought, “forget that, let’s remove all of your companions, put you to sleep and make you the outlander”.. no Jedi vs sith, no rep vs empire..” .. I understand why they did it but can’t say I liked it.

After getting used to that idea I have to say the story is good. Gameplay not perfect as per usual, bugs... but the story is good.

 

Makeb was probably the one with the worst story. I hate that place for many reasons many of you already described

[Jabakla]

My grip with KOFTE was that they basically took a dump on your past, thought, “forget that, let’s remove all of your companions, put you to sleep and make you the outlander”.. no Jedi vs sith, no rep vs empire..” .. I understand why they did it but can’t say I liked it.

After getting used to that idea I have to say the story is good. Gameplay not perfect as per usual, bugs... but the story is good.

 

Makeb was probably the one with the worst story. I hate that place for many reasons many of you already described

[MrJunay]

KOTFE has its advantages, and story is interesting from time to time. Makeb is just punishment.

[Storm-Cutter]

They never put it to a play-test and got feedback. Just ploughed on ahead, naively thinking that was what the majority wanted.

 

Since there are/were a lot of posts that asked for class stories, it's what we got. - It never dawned on a lot of people to write 'class specific' stories - Which we all assumend that this is what we'd get.

 

There were other numerous terrible mistakes, and promises made that were never fulfilled, and apart from a couple of passable chapters, the rest was pretty poor, made on a tiny budget since a lot of the money went on expensive shiny trailers.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Storm-Cutter

[Ardrossan]

There should have been more personal touches, that's all. This is a game where, not only is nearly every quest in the 1-50 storyline Voice-acted, but they even included voiced dialogue when you refuse a quest, something the vast majority of players will probably not hear. They also included voice dialogue that changed before and after you completed a quest for an npc, from "I sure hope you can rescue my magic doohickeys' to 'hooray without these magic doohickeys, the republic is defenseless!' Again, stuff many players likely don't hear.

 

To have all that richness of character, and see it wasted, on empty companions who don't remember your every decision when they come back, or on chapters that could have been great but are simply filler - the teamup between Acina and the Commander stands out for me, because, particularly if you're imperial, it's a perfect bonding experience that they bungle because her character has to say the same thing for seven other PC classes.

 

Acina really bugs me because she just isn't very Sithy. Her character changed a lot from macrobinoculars quest in order to give us a 'Good' option to Saresh. Apart from the LS/DS decision at the end of that chapter, and the about-face in Fractured Alliances, she hardly does anything that's actually Sith like.

[Gigabolt]

So far I think KOTFE is bloody EPIC!! love it to pieces, great cutscenes, graphics locations characters everything, love it to pieces!!

[kodrac]

So far I think KOTFE is bloody EPIC!! love it to pieces, great cutscenes, graphics locations characters everything, love it to pieces!!

 

KOTFE is alright 1-9, 10-15 has it's moments. KOTET 1-4 is decent, 5-9 is just awful.

[SolarSaenz]

I love playing through the class stories and I also enjoyed the Makeb & Revan stories.

 

Why is it that I just can't enjoy myself playing through KOTFE & KOTET? Why does it feel like work instead of fun?

 

I'm trying to put my finger on it, but I'm having trouble figuring it out precisely. I think it has a lot to do with the eradication of the Imp/Republic division as an important point in the story and the way it bastardizes the Force with the idea that the Knights of Zakuul are somehow more powerful than the light or dark because of their more neutral path.

 

It just isn't fun. It doesn't feel enough like Star Wars. Who thought this was a good idea for a story direction?

 

For me, this is why I don't care for KOTFE/ET.

KOTFE/ET are the wrong stories for the wrong time.

 

Before 4.0, there were 8 characters. Starting in 4.0, there is only "the Outlander" shoe horned into what turned into the Lana and Theron show with a reconnected Vitiate now suddenly a calm and family oriented Emperor of yet another great Empire we've conveniently never heard of.

 

Maybe, the story better fits with some (but not all) force users (like the Knight), but for most of the 8 character classes, the whole Keeping up with the Valkorians story doesn't fit with who they are.

 

In my opinion, they should have made Knights of Fill in the Blank as a stand alone sequel online or offline RPG (not an MMO) set like 100 or so years after the events of SWTOR. The PC is, as the marketing for KOTFE said, a veteran of the still ongoing Galactic War, perhaps inspired by their factions either very old or now dead heroes (the 8 class characters from SWTOR). This way, the PC is a blank slate that can easily fit into the role of the Alliance Commander. Then KOTET and any continuations of that story could have been released as DLCs.

 

But, hindsight is always 20/20.

[ZionHalcyon]

For me, this is why I don't care for KOTFE/ET.

KOTFE/ET are the wrong stories for the wrong time.

 

Before 4.0, there were 8 characters. Starting in 4.0, there is only "the Outlander" shoe horned into what turned into the Lana and Theron show with a reconnected Vitiate now suddenly a calm and family oriented Emperor of yet another great Empire we've conveniently never heard of.

 

Maybe, the story better fits with some (but not all) force users (like the Knight), but for most of the 8 character classes, the whole Keeping up with the Valkorians story doesn't fit with who they are.

 

In my opinion, they should have made Knights of Fill in the Blank as a stand alone sequel online or offline RPG (not an MMO) set like 100 or so years after the events of SWTOR. The PC is, as the marketing for KOTFE said, a veteran of the still ongoing Galactic War, perhaps inspired by their factions either very old or now dead heroes (the 8 class characters from SWTOR). This way, the PC is a blank slate that can easily fit into the role of the Alliance Commander. Then KOTET and any continuations of that story could have been released as DLCs.

 

But, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Agreed. The Sith Inquisitor is LITERALLY someone who "eats force ghosts".

 

Why would he be surprised by Vitiate body hopping? Rather than taking valkorion up on his offer, why did he not even bother to TRY to take over by force?

 

So many plot holes that you could drive a buick through.

 

The only thing that was more embarrassing than parts of the story was the HORRENDOUSLY AWFUL JOB Charles Boyd did trying to sell the players the awful retconning of Vitiate into Valkorion, done with equal parts ridiculous explanations for plot inconsistencies and thinly veiled digs at the players who didn't buy the crap he was selling.

 

It was awful, and the backlash was SO bad, that both he and Keith, who jumped in and also did a poor job in defense of both the story and of Charles, have gone back on their word of more communication.

 

Basically when faced with the first real test of his open communication policy, Keith folded like a cheap tent.

 

BioWare sadly has proven itself too arrogant to take to heart story criticisms, historically, ever since the original team was replaced. And then they lose another wave of players and then wonder why fewer people play the game. Totally clueless...

[DarthSpuds]

Why is it that I just can't enjoy myself playing through KOTFE & KOTET? Why does it feel like work instead of fun?

 

1) Mono-Story that allegedly fits everyone - it doesn't, most of it makes no sense at all from a Non-Force-User point of view.

 

2) Plot holes, plot holes, plot holes. From wasting time making a Force Weapon we don't use, to Magic Force Shields just dropping in from nowhere, to things like Aric Jorgan teaming up with Imperials, to Theron being able to hide his intent from the Barsenthor, the whole story is full of plot holes you can drive a Death Star through.

 

3) Combat Pacing - corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, and so on.

 

4) Companion Returns. 'Nuff said.

 

5) "Choices That Matter" that really, really, really don't matter... ...ever.

 

I suppose all of them can be listed under one heading: Appallingly Bad Writing.

 

All The Best

Edited January 29, 2018 by DarthSpuds

[Damask_Rose]

For me FE/ET is a big miss for many small reasons.

 

- Not enough class favor, and past actions were rarely acknowledged.. If we are going to get one story, all of it needs to work for everyone. None of this business of Imperials acting like they've never been to Drommund Kaas!

 

- The plot was too overblown, not consistent and certainly not believable. Vaylin's the mostest powerfulestest force-user ever! Trooper grunt takes her down with a gun. World eating near god plans to devour the galaxy, yet plays daddy on the weekends. The Eternal Fleet is the mostest powerfullestest military force every! Yet it can be taken over by one generic droid processor. (and all of that dream stuff was just silly)

 

- The focus was removed from our characters and placed on the brats and a handful of companions.

 

- Cutscenes were too long without enough input from the player.

 

- There wasn't enough context. Vanilla used planetary & sidequests to give context to the rest of the game. Without context there is zero reason to care about Zakuul and it's people. We sure don't see any reasons why Valkorion thought Zakuul was so much better than the Sith Empire.

 

- Combat was just ugh! It swung from really monotonous and boring, to overly gimmicky. I'd happily never pilot a walker again! Ever.

 

- Chopping off half of it didn't do it any favors. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assume all of the dropped plot lines would have been tied up and all of the companions would have received their "meaningful" reunions if the story had progressed as planned.

[Bonzenaattori]

Jeez where to begin

[spoiler ALERT]

 

1) The story lacks fundamental aspects that makes an MMO or even just vanilla RPGs good

Best Example of this is the drastic reduction of side quests. No new dailies in Zakuul, Old world or Iokath

 

2) Lack of backstory, with exception of cinematic cutscene (only 1 for vaylin, 1 for arcann/thexan)

You as a MC was stuck in carbonite for 5 years... there's so much potential for backstory and filler but they chose not to... why i dont even want to know

 

3) Lack of lore involving new zones

 

4) The story doesn't really humanize characters like Vaylin or Arcann, it oversells their strengths as an adversary

For example, Arcann defines himself as a person who shapes his destiny by taking the hardest path

Yet 90% of the story he's sitting on his ***** all day commanding ships and making strategically awful decisions and getting mocked by his younger sister

 

5) Vaylin killed more Knights of Zakuul than the main character

Rather questionable logic if you ask me

 

6) Difficulty factors in the game were rushed and made without any realistic thought process or development.

Mobs simply hit 'harder', no new mechanics, no new pathing that would take you out of your comfort zone and remove the confidence of knowing you've already completed the game at an easier difficulty. Simply put nothing changed

 

7) The game barely really gives you any story significance around the fact you spent the ENTIRE story in a land/world you've never seen. Yet your character has absolutely no trouble navigating his/her way around. Hell once in the story you fall unconscious and become lost in the jungle, and somehow, you get back without any assistance. Wut?

There is literally no need for a sense of direction because everything is a one-dimensional path

In certain games, usually RPGs, there's a process of elimination where you have to find your way around a path or to overcome a barrier or obstacle, there is absolutely nothing like that in this game

 

8) Your character grows weaker, not stronger

The best way for a player to develop a sense of attachment to a game is going through it and growing as a player and as a character, however, in SWTOR you play reluctantly knowing your class has grown weaker. Nerfs has warped the climax of progression to a snail's pace and this game's combat system has a feel of somewhat being 'scared' of making you hit hard.

 

9) No punishment factor for decision making

Simply put, there isn't a 'bad decision'.

When you choose to use Valkorion's power, it gives the impression you could lose Lana Beniko, yet she leaves the encounter with a grazed arm... nothing more

 

10) Koth Vortena

He's annoying and contradicting in everyway, and is literally ignorant to the idea that this all began with Valkorion... how devout can you get?

He loves Valk as a leader so much

Even tho his wife was chasing him around the galaxy as a fugitive.

Even tho his kids are currently ruling (or ruining) the galaxy with the Eternal Fleet

Even tho his ulterior motive is to take over your 'last hope' of defeating the eternal Fleet, through the MC

Get a clue... PLEASE!

 

11) The scions were wrong about EVERYTHING

Kinda hard to call you prophets when the gosh darn prophecy didn't even make sense nor tie into the conclusion and how Valk was defeated

For example, if they could see the future why is it that no-where whatsoever did they get the impression Valkorion had a hidden agenda. Or that Senya was influential to the end of it all

Or that Vaylin would've been next to take the throne, yet their sights were constantly focus on Arcann.

Not to mention the potential for Arcann to join you as a redeemed character

Even if their prophecy was short-sighted around Arcann being defeated, NO decision making you can influence would change the possibility that Senya would save Arcann. HOW DID THEY NOT SEE THAT COMING?

 

Missing a whole bunch of stuff but this is the main points for me

Edited January 29, 2018 by Bonzenaattori

[peter_plankskull]

For me FE/ET is a big miss for many small reasons.

 

- Not enough class favor, and past actions were rarely acknowledged.. If we are going to get one story, all of it needs to work for everyone. None of this business of Imperials acting like they've never been to Drommund Kaas!

 

- The plot was too overblown, not consistent and certainly not believable. Vaylin's the mostest powerfulestest force-user ever! Trooper grunt takes her down with a gun. World eating near god plans to devour the galaxy, yet plays daddy on the weekends. The Eternal Fleet is the mostest powerfullestest military force every! Yet it can be taken over by one generic droid processor. (and all of that dream stuff was just silly)

 

- The focus was removed from our characters and placed on the brats and a handful of companions.

 

- Cutscenes were too long without enough input from the player.

 

- There wasn't enough context. Vanilla used planetary & sidequests to give context to the rest of the game. Without context there is zero reason to care about Zakuul and it's people. We sure don't see any reasons why Valkorion thought Zakuul was so much better than the Sith Empire.

 

- Combat was just ugh! It swung from really monotonous and boring, to overly gimmicky. I'd happily never pilot a walker again! Ever.

 

- Chopping off half of it didn't do it any favors. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assume all of the dropped plot lines would have been tied up and all of the companions would have received their "meaningful" reunions if the story had progressed as planned.

 

A lot of this^

 

Given, I wouldn't call the writing "terrible" like some people and truth be told, I quite liked kotfe/kotet, more so kotfe 1-9, but the major problem is that it feels like a different game. Theirs a large polarity and shift between pre and post kotfe/kotet, and a large direction of the game is changed.

[MrJunay]

I'd happily never pilot a walker again! Ever.

Oh yeah! For me it was a real nightmare and torture. I hate chapters with a walker!

[aerockyul]

I feel the game overall feels too much like work when combat is clunky or slow. This can be due to player misuse (not learning a good rotation, leveling a healer without respec to dps) as in vanilla, or when its done by design.

 

There's way too much designed clunkiness and slowness in KOTFE/ET. Ridiculous amount of boss knockbacks as a "mechanic", constant interrupts, mobs that spawn nowhere near you, mobs that spawn whether you are in stealth or not, mobs with shields that pop even if you can actually put out enough dps to kill them before the shield would normally pop (forced immunity, no matter how much damage you put out), mobs that will take forever no matter how good you are as a dps (the walker stages--handicaps everyone. It would be faster to kill those mobs on feet than in those clunky, slow walkers with their slow abilities and even slower cooldowns--there's nothing epic about piloting them due to their forced slowness).

 

I'm not sure what they were going for with all the artificial slowing down of combat--that it would be perceived as more "challenging?" More like aggravating. And tedious. It felt like they were punishing players who spent the time to learn their class and actually kill stuff quickly and efficiently.

 

Almost every single fight feels exactly what it's like to level a Combat Medic through vanilla and never being able to skip a single "defeat X enemies" mission. While being knocked back and interrupted during every other fight. The only thing worse would be adding more HP to each enemy and increasing the outgoing damage from each mob..........the reason Veteran and Master modes of KOTFE/ET are the height of tedium, and not challenge.

[Ardrossan]

mobs that spawn whether you are in stealth or not

 

Ah, I'd wondered about that. So in KOTFE/ET there's not much point in stealthing? Does that apply to the Star Fortresses too?

[aerockyul]

Ah, I'd wondered about that. So in KOTFE/ET there's not much point in stealthing? Does that apply to the Star Fortresses too?

 

Yes. Try stealthing through the Odessen Wilds or through any corridors with scripted mobs that appear miles away from you.

 

If you're a stealth toon, there are very few, if any (that I can remember on my three stealth toons that I've taken through) mobs that you can skip.

[LordArtemis]

See, that is the rub...in some ways combat is most definitely clunky, but in others it is pretty smooth and fluid. One of the things I HATE about combat in this game is mobility and jumping restrictions...you are limited to walking in sand during combat and hopping in general....except for force leaps or jump triggers of course.

 

But....other than nuisance trash and some irritating boss mechanics the combat in KotFE/ET was engaging and interesting IMO....AND i loved the alternate fighting mechanism, like the mech fighting and battlefield fights like on Voss. I think they should have sprinkled in some single player space battles as well, and transitions to ship combat along the lines of Battlefront, but I digress.

[Bladeofhonour]

Ok I just had found the answer for this question: "you think it is the future. No. It is long long ago."

 

/edit: Who had smuggled nuts im my post ..Yoda you!

Edited January 30, 2018 by Bladeofhonour

[jimmorrisson]

Knight Of The Clunky Titles looks, plays and reads pretty good in this Disney Star Wars era.

Also after each chapter release - there was widespread acclaim until time had it's cruel way.

Edited January 30, 2018 by jimmorrisson

[Aeneas_Falco]

1. The Republic and Empire cooperating while the Jedi and Sith discover the power of friendship just doesn't feel like it fits into the Star Wars universe at all. It feels more like bad fanfiction.

 

2. The removal of original companions, some of who have yet to return. No player asked for that.

 

3. No replay value. Class stories are gone, faction stories are gone, and now it's a single story regardless of whether you are Jedi, Sith, a Smuggler, or an Imperial Agent.

 

4. Too much Theron & Lana. Your character too often feels like their sidekick. Also, See #2.

 

5. Vaylin is a poorly written character and her bratty dialogue grates.

 

6. Iokath aside, not much in the way of multiplayer content.

 

7. Non-force users feel completely out of place as the Outlander, particularly the Smuggler & Bounty Hunter.

 

8. Corridors & unskippable trash mobs.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco

[RDeanOU]

1) Mono-Story that allegedly fits everyone - it doesn't, most of it makes no sense at all from a Non-Force-User point of view.

 

2) Plot holes, plot holes, plot holes. From wasting time making a Force Weapon we don't use, to Magic Force Shields just dropping in from nowhere, to things like Aric Jorgan teaming up with Imperials, to Theron being able to hide his intent from the Barsenthor, the whole story is full of plot holes you can drive a Death Star through.

 

3) Combat Pacing - corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, and so on.

 

4) Companion Returns. 'Nuff said.

 

5) "Choices That Matter" that really, really, really don't matter... ...ever.

 

I suppose all of them can be listed under one heading: Appallingly Bad Writing.

 

All The Best

 

Lots of good responses, but I think this one hits most of the highlights.

 

It also just feels so long...like trudging through an endless swamp.

[RACATW]

Try playing the original class story for jugg/guardian on marauder and see your marauder constantly switch to single saber. (When they actually have TWO sabers)

There has always been a bit of a generalized approach, SWTOR is a multiplayer game and not singleplayer so they don't pay as much attention to a single thing; they are always on the multi scale approach.

Edited January 30, 2018 by RACATW

[Izorii]

I had a similar experience. I think its because it felt like I had fallen down the rabit hole and I just wanted to get back to star wars and not this strange series of missions where I had an guy in my head, knowing the outcome the whole way through and being able to do nothing to stop it with characters who I didn't really care about in a galaxy / plot which even the character at the start gets to say - This who plot makes no sense.