Vanilla content too easy

[DWho]

I'm starting to think that the problem here is level scaling. At the moment it's completely useless because your gear is not scaled with you. So, even if they cannot change anything mob-side, they could do something player-side and make level scaling actually matter.

 

That is correct. Since the gear drops are keyed to your level not the level of the planet/NPCs, you will have attributes far above what was initially planned for the planets even with the cap on Mastery, Power, and Endurance.

[Diamaht]

Returning player here also. The original OP is correct IMHO.

 

This is an example of game developers needing to protect us from ourselves. This came about from end game players wanting fast max lvl Alts. I remember, I was there for it. Was that why the devs did it, I don't know, but that was the largest outcry from the player base at the time.

 

Its taboo to mention other games but World of Warcraft has gone through the same cycle. Now they have mob scaling in beta testing and what a fantastic change it is!

 

I would suggest doing the same thing they did:

1) Keep the exp gain and lvl pace the same. Those who want fast max lvl characters will get to keep it.

2) Let the mob damage and HP scale with player level so those who want to enjoy all the games content can do so with at least some challenge. Everyone wins!

[abigfishy]

I don't mind trash being easy. Boss fights used to be a real challenge. I remember fights like Dartk Skotia, Darth Baris and Nomen Karr being epic and difficult. Now after all the build up they are over in seconds. I don't want the 4 million health bore fests like the Traitor Among the Sith flashpoints, but how about they just make a quick pass over all their story bosses and give them +20% damage and health to make them at least a little bit of a challenge.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Vanilla was hard? When?

 

It was never hard but it would be dishonest to say that the vanilla content wasn't significantly more challenging than what we have now.

 

Once a upon a time class and planet story bosses couldn't be globaled, couldn't be soloed by your companion,and had mechanics that couldn't be ignored unless you wanted to die. Some of them, like the Emperor for instance, would one shot you if you ignored mechanics. It was not an uncommon occurrence to see people asking for help with the Emperor, Baras, or Thanaton.

 

They were never as difficult as HM Flashpoint or Ops bosses of course, but some of them were at least as difficult as the boss fights in KoTET. They were nothing that the average person couldn't clear but you did have to know how to play your class and you could not ignore fight mechanics. That is not the case now.

 

Something should be done to restore some moderate challenge to the class and planet story bosses. They are so easy now that they've become boring, and new players are now stepping into flashpoints not knowing what DCDs or interrupts are.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco

[LordArtemis]

I think to go back and recode that, with none of their original programmers, would cause more harm then good. What about what I mentioned earlier, just make the content difficulty they way it was, and then offer a free "power companion" to anyone that doesn't want to deal with it, and just do story. They could do that just like the white acute module I think it is so you don't get the bonus exp.

 

Not sure about the insults, I dont think anyone has really gone off the rails in mean comments, well there was this 1 post.

 

I think my suggestion is better and would work better in practice, but that does not mean I think your suggestion does not have merit.

 

I think they have proven time and time again that when they try to adjust mob difficulty in the game world hijinks ensue. So really, no matter what they do they are likely to have issues, adjusting the level cap based on personal settings would most likely be the easiest and least buggy solution IMO.

 

And yes, level scaling could very well be issue and deserve to be looked at.

Edited January 2, 2018 by LordArtemis

[Storm-Cutter]

Don't the mobs scale with level in the Rackghoul tunnels, making it similar difficulty for level 20s, 30s, 40s 50s etc.

 

Level scaling was a solution looking for a problem. Over-leveling the planet was always an option in the old days if the content was felt to be too hard.

 

Thing is though, it was only partially-implemented. Then the lack of cash and vision killed off what should have been a solution that satisfied everyone. - Lower levels looking for a challenge, people who wanted hard content, those who wanted to breeze through it, those that wanted a game that taught them their class as they leveled up and those that wanted to power through to get to the end.

[RahaylaCora]

Now that the double XP event is over, keep using the White Acute Module. You will see that your leveling progression is slower. Try a new character if you like and comment your new game experience.

[Iliac]

Come on, you get the point, it was definitely harder than this. It wasn't "hard" in the general meaning, but surely not as easy as it is now.

No, it has always been this easy. It was just more time consuming.

[_Tarkus_]

No, it has always been this easy. It was just more time consuming.

 

You've got to be kidding me.

[TUXs]

You've got to be kidding me.

He's not kidding. In fact, it used to be easier because you could out level content to where nothing hurt you...you literally could not die if you were 5+ levels above the content. Leveling in this game has always been easy, since launch...it was just way more time consuming in the past than it is now. Fighting 300 NPCs that respawn just to get to my objective wasn't challenging, it was boring and annoying AF.

[_Tarkus_]

Yeah, much better now, isn't it? You can outlevel content way faster now and never ever get killed while only using your standard attack and never learn anything about your class abilities. Very satisfying and challenging.

[TUXs]

Yeah, much better now, isn't it? You can outlevel content way faster now and never ever get killed while only using your standard attack and never learn anything about your class abilities. Very satisfying and challenging.

Learn lol? What is there to "learn" exactly? Most of your rotation isn't even possible until you hit 65...so what the hell are they "learning"? People learn by playing content that requires them to learn, not from leveling.

 

You want a "challenge", use the damn tools you have already. Dismiss your companion or put it on passive. I assure you, it becomes much more challenging then.

 

Better yet...try PvP for a "challenge". Do HM Ops for a challenge. 1-70 is NOT where you are going to find your challenge...it's the BASE game that must be completed, not the challenging part of it.

Edited January 2, 2018 by TUXs

[_Tarkus_]

Learn lol? What is there to "learn" exactly? Most of your rotation isn't even possible until you hit 65...so what the hell are they "learning"? People learn by playing content that requires them to learn, not from leveling.

Sure, much better to learn all 40 abilities at once when you reach level 65 rather then learn them slowly while playing and leveling, right?

 

You want a "challenge", use the damn tools you have already. Dismiss your companion or put it on passive. I assure you, it becomes much more challenging then.

Putting your companion on passive is definitely not enough, and since you seem so good you must know that already. So I'm doing that, plus I'm using unmodded orange gear on my character. I'm level 50 on Nar Shaddaa, using all my abilities and yet I'm dying playing that way. Still, not everyone reads the forums nor they can post, and not everyone would do so much to get some challenge out of this game.

Edited January 2, 2018 by _Tarkus_

[ivanhedgehog]

Yeah, much better now, isn't it? You can outlevel content way faster now and never ever get killed while only using your standard attack and never learn anything about your class abilities. Very satisfying and challenging.

 

do the sith warrior mission with master yonloch on tatooine with just the standard attack. record it for us to show just how awesome you are. you cant solo everything without a companion or armor and only use the standard attack through the game.it would take forever to level and you would die over and over. hyperbole does not help your position.

tedium is not challenge.

[_Tarkus_]

do the sith warrior mission with master yonloch on tatooine with just the standard attack. record it for us to show just how awesome you are. you cant solo everything without a companion or armor and only use the standard attack through the game.it would take forever to level and you would die over and over. hyperbole does not help your position.

tedium is not challenge.

Without armor I'm using all my abilities, of course. I thought that was obvious. I edited the previous post anyway so it's crystal clear now.

Edited January 2, 2018 by _Tarkus_

[RDeanOU]

People are entitled to their own opinions about whether it has become too easy or not, but it's a fact that it used to be much more difficult. I've recently returned to the game to play through class stories again and it is really difficult to die on anything labeled as solo content. That was not the case at launch. There were some bosses in the class stories that had abilities that would definitely kill you if you didn't get them interrupted.

 

What's more, there were only a handful of Heroic Missions that were easily soloable (while level appropriate) when the game launched. It felt like a real accomplishment if you were able to solo a Heroic 2+ mission. Now, nearly all of them can be soloed without even bothering to worry about things like interrupts or keeping enemies CCed.

 

It isn't just an issue of leveling faster either. You can be level appropriate for fights that used to be challenging and they are an absolute joke now.

Edited January 2, 2018 by RDeanOU

[_Tarkus_]

It isn't just an issue of leveling faster either. You can be level appropriate for fights that used to be challenging and they are an absolute joke now.

I haven't fought against same level enemies for a while now, so if that's true it means solving this issue is more complicated than simply readjusting the level scaling system. I'm pretty sure the developers don't care one bit about this topic though.

[Aeneas_Falco]

I don't mind trash being easy. Boss fights used to be a real challenge. I remember fights like Dartk Skotia, Darth Baris and Nomen Karr being epic and difficult. Now after all the build up they are over in seconds. I don't want the 4 million health bore fests like the Traitor Among the Sith flashpoints, but how about they just make a quick pass over all their story bosses and give them +20% damage and health to make them at least a little bit of a challenge.

 

This.

 

It's really just the bosses that need to be adjusted. Mobs ran remain something you one-shot on the way to something interesting.

[TUXs]

Sure, much better to learn all 40 abilities at once when you reach level 65 rather then learn them slowly while playing and leveling, right?

 

 

Putting your companion on passive is definitely not enough, and since you seem so good you must know that already. So I'm doing that, plus I'm using unmodded orange gear on my character. I'm level 50 on Nar Shaddaa, using all my abilities and yet I'm dying playing that way. Still, not everyone reads the forums nor they can post, and not everyone would do so much to get some challenge out of this game.

Skills change far too much from 1-70 to be of any use at end game. If I did it your way, I'd be using explosive round in my commando's rotation, because that's what I learned to do at level 5. There's no learning anything until you have all your skills...to suggest otherwise is silly.

 

Yup...putting your companion on passive may not be enough for super duper skilled players like yourself...so remove all your class buffs and try that. If it's still too easy for you, do something besides easy mode story missions (FP's, Heroics, Ops, PvP). You're looking for your challenge in the entirely wrong place my friend.

Edited January 2, 2018 by TUXs

[_Tarkus_]

Yup...putting your companion on passive may not be enough for super duper skilled players like yourself...so remove all your class buffs and try that. If it's still too easy for you, do something besides easy mode story missions (FP's, Heroics, Ops, PvP). You're looking for your challenge in the entirely wrong place my friend.

That's right, I'm looking to be challenged even by simple quests and simple mobs, just like it was on release, not just in PvP, heroics (which are also very easy) or flashpoints.

[DWho]

Virtually all end chapter end bosses are now in level synced areas. Many of them very low level planets. By the time you get to them your abilities and gear are far above what they were previously. I mean I can stick two +41 power/mastery/endurance crystals in my gear halfway through Tython (at level 10). Previously you used to struggle to be level 7 or 8 by the time you left Tython. Leveling is a huge issue when you literally outlevel content from the start of the game. Even not wearing "gear" doesn't compensate for that because many of your attributes and defenses are based on your actual level making you more powerful than a character of your synced level would be (level syc is a cap not an adjustment so you easily have attributes higher than the content was initially programmed for). There are also tons more bonuses to your attributes than there used to be. Datacrons increase your mastery alone 4 times as fast since all of them now give Mastery instead of what might have been a useless attribute before and you get them from the start on all characters in the legacy where they have been found rather than having to find them on each character for the bonuses.

[_Tarkus_]

Virtually all end chapter end bosses are now in level synced areas. Many of them very low level planets. By the time you get to them your abilities and gear are far above what they were previously. I mean I can stick two +41 power/mastery/endurance crystals in my gear halfway through Tython (at level 10). Previously you used to struggle to be level 7 or 8 by the time you left Tython. Leveling is a huge issue when you literally outlevel content from the start of the game. Even not wearing "gear" doesn't compensate for that because many of your attributes and defenses are based on your actual level making you more powerful than a character of your synced level would be (level syc is a cap not an adjustment so you easily have attributes higher than the content was initially programmed for). There are also tons more bonuses to your attributes than there used to be. Datacrons increase your mastery alone 4 times as fast since all of them now give Mastery instead of what might have been a useless attribute before and you get them from the start on all characters in the legacy where they have been found rather than having to find them on each character for the bonuses.

Try playing with your companion on passive and with unmodded orange gear as I am, do some quests in some low level planet. Trust me, you're probably going to die. A silver enemy could bring you down to half HP, while an elite could kill you. It's just as hard as I want it to be, as it should be.

Too bad this seems the only way to get challenged and let your brain actually function when you're fighting.

Edited January 2, 2018 by _Tarkus_

[TUXs]

That's right, I'm looking to be challenged even by simple quests and simple mobs, just like it was on release, not just in PvP, heroics (which are also very easy) or flashpoints.

Yup...you're doing it wrong. It's STORY content, not challenging content.

[DWho]

Try playing with your companion on passive and with unmodded orange gear as I am, do some quests in some low level planet. Trust me, you're probably going to die, it's just as hard as I want it to be.

Too bad this seems the only way to get challenged and let your brain actually function when you're fighting.

 

I generally only play with the gear that drops from the quests and not the random drop gear. That does a reasonably good job of keeping it balanced even with overleveling (I generally don't ever hit the level syc cap on Mastery, Endurance, or Power). Not probably as challenging as empty gear but I would rather the gold NPCs be the ones that are challenging and not every mob in the game. I did enough of that in 1.0 and 2.0 to last forever. A little challenge is good, too much is bad, a difficult balance to strike

[Elurendil]

Personally I would like to see an additional instance added to every planet similar to the PvP instance. This instance would be the "Veteran Instance."

 

I'm thinking this would allow the developers to adjust the mechanics of the level sync safely for those instances without impacting the current system for people who like it that way. Access to the veteran instance could also be coupled with new achievements and possibly require an active subscription.