EA Gambling Crates, 1 game went too far, others to follow

[Tsillah]

I guess the snowball keeps rolling.🎅

It's hard to see where this will be going and for legislation it will take some time regardless, but yes, it is interesting to see where this will go.

 

I think that gambling has become sort of the term that people like to throw around but I prefer the wording of the guys from Hawaii who call it predatory practices.

 

Personally I feel that regardless of whether it will be considered gambling or not, it's just something that can't go on unbridled like this. Most countries simply have little or no legislation for online gaming or gambling and i hope that the fall out that happened here will help in pinning down that legislation. At least politicians are starting to take an interest now left and right.

[Xatoo]

Unfortunately the crates can be considered gambling, and yes there are credit farmer bots which have caused items on the GTN to skyrocket. It's a shame.

 

I really love the game and the story lines of all the characters. I've had my fun, and I'm happy for the good times I've had.

 

I think there is a point when a person can say "enough is enough" and truly be done with the game and move on. The game economy is way out of control, and with the current bugs after the merge and no resolution in sight, I believe the merge was a "Hail Mary Pass" to try and save the game. I hope it works.

[AshenK]

It's hard to see where this will be going and for legislation it will take some time regardless, but yes, it is interesting to see where this will go.

 

I think that gambling has become sort of the term that people like to throw around but I prefer the wording of the guys from Hawaii who call it predatory practices.

 

Personally I feel that regardless of whether it will be considered gambling or not, it's just something that can't go on unbridled like this. Most countries simply have little or no legislation for online gaming or gambling and i hope that the fall out that happened here will help in pinning down that legislation. At least politicians are starting to take an interest now left and right.

i can tell you right now as gamers we should only want the following.

 

-for all gambling boxes in games to be banned

-microtransactions of all types need to be removed asap

-dev's and publishers will now work to make sure that there is X amount of content hours put in via any type of content update

-content updates will be free as we have already paid for the game therefore are entitled to any type of content that's made for the game.

 

really all of those are simple to do and thats how at time time gaming worked. those days will come back and its high time the government step in.

[Schoock]

i can tell you right now as gamers we should only want the following.

 

-for all gambling boxes in games to be banned

-microtransactions of all types need to be removed asap

-dev's and publishers will now work to make sure that there is X amount of content hours put in via any type of content update

-content updates will be free as we have already paid for the game therefore are entitled to any type of content that's made for the game.

 

really all of those are simple to do and thats how at time time gaming worked. those days will come back and its high time the government step in.

 

Just say it after me: WE WANT COMMUNISM!

[DanNV]

-for all gambling boxes in games to be banned

 

Definitely

 

-microtransactions of all types need to be removed asap

 

I don't mind them if I know exactly what I'm getting. Of course, that means they have to hire an artist whith a clue about making good looking gear.

 

-dev's and publishers will now work to make sure that there is X amount of content hours put in via any type of content update

 

This might sounds good, but there's no way to legislate it at all.

 

-content updates will be free as we have already paid for the game therefore are entitled to any type of content that's made for the game.

 

Generally a silly idea. We pay for the game, and assuming it is a complete game, we got what we paid for. Something has to pay for the costs of developing expansions. I have no problem paying for an expansion, and did in ESO as well as the fist two in SWTOR. The company doesn't owe you expansions. They do owe you a working game when you buy it, and each expansion needs to be working when it's released. But they don't owe you more than that.

[Darkfalconheart]

This has become a global issue. We all know EA is greedy. Buying up lowbie development houses and ruining their beloved games and sucking the life out of the community.

 

Sound familiar??

 

Now with battlefront's crates countries have considered the Random Number Generated crates gambling. Just yesterday Hawaii was added to the ever growing list.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/22/state-legislators-call-eas-game-a-star-wars-themed-online-casino-preying-on-kids-vow-action.html

 

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/22/belgium-moves-to-ban-star-wars-battlefront-2-style-loot-boxes/

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-11-22-star-wars-battlefront-2-loot-crates-belgian-gaming-commission-hawaii-chris-lee

 

https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dsBXRSlqC39zkgM55HWLL0gEzafKM&q=EA+gambling&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy2sLlwNLXAhUH1mMKHbuKBqMQqgIIKzAA&dogfood=no

 

 

Battlefront isn't the only game being investigated on their RNG systems, Overwatch is on the list as well.

 

Sure SWTOR is mostly cosmetic, but there are buyable boosts and insta level 60 and 65 tokens with a just announced insta 70 token coming soon.

People will spend their money on cartel coins for these RNG crates, effectively gambling yo get a rare item to use or sell to afford another item. People set up bots to gain CXP for RNG crates in a horrible end game gearing system.

 

Battlefront's crates are to skip content and get end game bonuses quicker. SWTOR's RNG crates are just as much of a gambling issue.

 

 

The insta tokens are not gambling. They come at a fixed price and give you exactly what you paid for. They are not random. So they have nothing to do with that issue. WoW sells such tokens too.

 

I really don't understand all the complaining about random boxes selling skins.

[GalacticKegger]

The insta tokens are not gambling. They come at a fixed price and give you exactly what you paid for. They are not random. So they have nothing to do with that issue. WoW sells such tokens too.

 

I really don't understand all the complaining about random boxes selling skins.

Not only WoW but Wildstar, Rift and a few others do this as well. They are essentially keeping gold selling in-house figuring if they do the business (WAY safer than gold sellers btw) then the gold sellers will go out of business. Plus, it turns them a tidy profit to boot.

 

I suppose in a roundabout way it could be P2W since someone can sell what they buy for in-game currency then turn it around and purchase gear and mods from the GTN ... or Legacy perks ... or bank tabs ... or, well ... you get the idea. Money laundering is a lot of work.

 

The only up front "gambling" in this game is the Nightlife Event, which could come under scrutiny if a player can participate (further) after having spent real money.

 

Our youngest is a psych prof who spent 5 years as a WoW GM and raid leader to further his studies. So we've had this discussion and what I can say is that when they have unfettered access to it, "the thrill of the RNG hunt" will exacerbate an individual's gambling problem. Like it or not, the concern is whether or not the option to spend real money to play the RNG minigame exists. That is what is being looked at.

Edited November 25, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Rheshalea]

We can only hope...the beauty is, EA did this entirely to themselves by getting TOO greedy. It's beautiful

 

Yes, it is.

 

As far as the crates go.. Don't hold your breath as far as the US goes. There are all kinds of interstate laws and unless Hawaii can get 50 other states to follow I don't see anything significant happening. The current political climate favors big business. Heck look at what is going to be happening with Net Neutrality.. 22 Million people have spoken against it, but Pai is going to remove it anyway in the name of big business.

 

The current political climate favors big business.

Exactly. Such as DISNEY, who owns the Star Wars franchise and has sold/sub-let the license for PC games to EA. Disney's still the Big Boss.

Not to mention, if/when the EU puts on some real pressure (in the event that USA doesn't), it affects said Big Business, too. As long as one market/country starts, which has already happened, the snowball is tipping over the edge, about to start hurtling down the slope and grow into an avalanche.

[Kheld]

Lets hope they nail EA's hide to the wall.

[Tsillah]

Just say it after me: WE WANT COMMUNISM!

You clearly do not know what communism is.

[Yamahara]

I don't see anything wrong with the character tokens. It's not like they are giving you a full set of 248s with it. Leveling from 1-70 gets very boring after you have done it 30+ times. Besides XP boosts etc they don't sell anything that gives you an advantage for your dps,tanking, or hps. The current tokens can be bought on thr gtn for 16mil. You can make that much in a few days if you know what you're doing.

[Alec_Fortescue]

I honestly don't see tokens as pay to win. You just get instant access to competitive content. Anything before level 70 is just preparing for that. Leveling is fast and easy.

[Toraak]

Honestly, the Level 70 tokens are fine I see no issue's with that. As for the CM packs, I'm not a fan of them personally, but have no issues with BW selling them for 1 simple reason. Nothing in them is anything more then Cosmetic. You do not need any of it to play the game at all, so if people are deciding to spend $ on the crates it is on them.

 

With that being said I don't mind the Direct CM sales of items either.

 

I also do not include the Command crates in this discussion, since we do not pay $ other then our sub for them.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Toraak

[supertimtaf]

I don't see anything wrong with the character tokens. It's not like they are giving you a full set of 248s with it. Leveling from 1-70 gets very boring after you have done it 30+ times. Besides XP boosts etc they don't sell anything that gives you an advantage for your dps,tanking, or hps. The current tokens can be bought on thr gtn for 16mil. You can make that much in a few days if you know what you're doing.

 

What seem wrong with the character token though is the fact that since 4.0 was released with their apparition, they've always been on sale with a discount.

2000CC instead of 3600CC

That's rather strange to see such a hugh promotion going on for more than two years since they've been released... Or is it really a promotion ? :')

That kind of attitude is also discutable, in terms of honesty towards the customer.

Still, i'm not against those token, they're usefull for peoples who don't like grinding and comes at an affordable price.

I'm just against the way they're sold, with some false promotion to bait new players. "Look, it's at 30% discount, you don't know when it will finish, quick, go buy one !"

 

 

I also do not include the Command crates in this discussion, since we do not pay $ other then our sub for them.

 

The issue with command crate is that you're paying your sub for these, who are presented like end-game content.

This game has no real "new" end-game content other than those crates. The way they're presented is "Do the old content again so you can open them and maybe have a piece of high-level gear".

That's not content, it's just something to keep suscriber playing the game, grinding gear again and again by farming old content.

In short you're paying for trying your luck out.

Imagine that, on another game, you had to pay in order to play it every time, but even if you paid, you have a 10% chance of triggering the specific element that would allow you to progress. Again, another way to keep peoples playing without having to work hard for it...

 

But that's just my totally cynical opinion, don't mind me.

Edited November 25, 2017 by supertimtaf

[CombatLord]

This has become a global issue. We all know EA is greedy. Buying up lowbie development houses and ruining their beloved games and sucking the life out of the community.

 

Sound familiar??

 

Now with battlefront's crates countries have considered the Random Number Generated crates gambling. Just yesterday Hawaii was added to the ever growing list.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/22/state-legislators-call-eas-game-a-star-wars-themed-online-casino-preying-on-kids-vow-action.html

 

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/22/belgium-moves-to-ban-star-wars-battlefront-2-style-loot-boxes/

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-11-22-star-wars-battlefront-2-loot-crates-belgian-gaming-commission-hawaii-chris-lee

 

https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dsBXRSlqC39zkgM55HWLL0gEzafKM&q=EA+gambling&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy2sLlwNLXAhUH1mMKHbuKBqMQqgIIKzAA&dogfood=no

 

 

Battlefront isn't the only game being investigated on their RNG systems, Overwatch is on the list as well.

 

Sure SWTOR is mostly cosmetic, but there are buyable boosts and insta level 60 and 65 tokens with a just announced insta 70 token coming soon.

 

People complain about high GTN prices when other dump money into cartel coins to get rare items to sell at high credit prices. People complain about credit farmers, bots, and spam. When there is a direct connection to high GTN prices and 3rd party credit sale websites.

 

People will spend their money on cartel coins for these RNG crates, effectively gambling yo get a rare item to use or sell to afford another item. People set up bots to gain CXP for RNG crates in a horrible end game gearing system.

 

Battlefront's crates are to skip content and get end game bonuses quicker. SWTOR's RNG crates are just as much of a gambling issue.

 

So when do we see a change?

 

A happy gamer is a good gamer willing to pay extra for cosmetic items via micro transactions. Piss off these customers, and stocks tumble when they stop buying, subscribing, and playing.

 

This is only the beginning. We need to take a stand now and speak with out bank accounts. Boycott all cartel purchases, unsub. If you want change, you'll have to do it where it hurts the most. The bottom line.

 

You do not speak for everyone and I for one like the cosmetic gear. I do not want log and look at my character and having him look homeless in crappy looking quest gear. You don't like the cartel market then fine don't buy things, but you do not speak for me.

[CombatLord]

I don't see anything wrong with the character tokens. It's not like they are giving you a full set of 248s with it. Leveling from 1-70 gets very boring after you have done it 30+ times. Besides XP boosts etc they don't sell anything that gives you an advantage for your dps,tanking, or hps. The current tokens can be bought on thr gtn for 16mil. You can make that much in a few days if you know what you're doing.

 

I agree with this 100%. Some people like the OP think that they speak for all and like ruining other peoples enjoyment.

[Toraak]

What seem wrong with the character token though is the fact that since 4.0 was released with their apparition, they've always been on sale with a discount.

2000CC instead of 3600CC

That's rather strange to see such a hugh promotion going on for more than two years since they've been released... Or is it really a promotion ? :')

That kind of attitude is also discutable, in terms of honesty towards the customer.

Still, i'm not against those token, they're usefull for peoples who don't like grinding and comes at an affordable price.

I'm just against the way they're sold, with some false promotion to bait new players. "Look, it's at 30% discount, you don't know when it will finish, quick, go buy one !"

 

 

 

 

The issue with command crate is that you're paying your sub for these, who are presented like end-game content.

This game has no real "new" end-game content other than those crates. The way they're presented is "Do the old content again so you can open them and maybe have a piece of high-level gear".

That's not content, it's just something to keep suscriber playing the game, grinding gear again and again by farming old content.

In short you're paying for trying your luck out.

Imagine that, on another game, you had to pay in order to play it every time, but even if you paid, you have a 10% chance of triggering the specific element that would allow you to progress. Again, another way to keep peoples playing without having to work hard for it...

 

But that's just my totally cynical opinion, don't mind me.

 

I'm sorry, but you do not pay your sub for Command crates. You pay your sub to play all aspects of the game whether it is story, PvP, or PvE past 50. Command crates are just a piece of why people sub perhaps, but not all. Raiders pay to raid (yes they need gear, but they can now get that from Operation bosses), PvP'ers pay to play PvP, and they can get gear from UC's, so no you do not pay to only get command crates.

 

And as the above posters said the 1-70 token is a good thing for those that have leveled a ton of alts. I've never used one personally, but I sure would if I didn't mind spending the CC's to do it.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Toraak

[LordArtemis]

I think there is little wrong with the max level tokens. This is just MY opinion mind you, I only speak for myself.

 

IMO folks that use the tokens and are generally unaware of how to play the class would likely have that problem even if they leveled up the character from level 1. I also think there were plenty of players with this problem prior to tokens, and I do not believe the numbers have grown in a substantial way.

 

Experienced players that use a token would obviously know how to play the class.

 

Many of the mainstream MMOs on the market offer this as a feature, and it really doesn't seem to cause too many problems overall, other than folks railing against it because it breaks some kind of personal code for them.

[Foambreaker]

This has become a global issue. We all know EA is greedy. Buying up lowbie development houses and ruining their beloved games and sucking the life out of the community.....

 

You mean failed development houses who bit off more than they can chew and lack the funds to continue?

 

Producing a great game is not enough, to stay in business you have to make a profit.

 

No free rides.

[DanNV]

No, he means EA buying up development studios and then running them right into the ground. They are working on another one now. This video

discusses the pay-to-win randon crates/packs that EA has shoved into almost every game they run, who started it, how much they make off of it and how many games EA has destroyed over the last few years. Edited November 25, 2017 by DanNV

[casirabit]

I like the gear they have. I was here at launch and the outfits were atrocious so if going back to that gear is what you want, no thank you.

[supertimtaf]

I like the gear they have. I was here at launch and the outfits were atrocious so if going back to that gear is what you want, no thank you.

 

Shouldn't there be another way to get cool-looking gear rather than spend more real money into these ? The issue isn't that they give gear, it's more that it's the only way to get nice gear right now. ^^

[Eshvara]

Shouldn't there be another way to get cool-looking gear rather than spend more real money into these ? The issue isn't that they give gear, it's more that it's the only way to get nice gear right now. ^^

 

This! They clearly can design nice armor sets, but it's never from actual in game content, with the exception of that new ops. (And that's weapons only) iirc.

[casirabit]

Shouldn't there be another way to get cool-looking gear rather than spend more real money into these ? The issue isn't that they give gear, it's more that it's the only way to get nice gear right now. ^^

 

I was here at launch and the only gear they had was horrible. They don't have a crafting system like we had in SWG simply because this game wasn't designed like SWG. I love my crafters in SWG and I could use the clothing we had and we had some nice one (and some I refused to make) and I could combine outfits and create costumes, like wonder woman, star wars and etc. The only problem is crafting requires more than what we can do here and it is not something your companions can do. You have to survey for the right stuff (mineral, water, gas, etc) and then you have to place a harvester down to harvest the resources. In SWG we could do that, here you can't. The planets are not set up that way. Crafting also require you to have a crafter for the bonus in harvesting and in the factories, which again is something this game was not made for at the beginning.

 

As far as creating outfits from in game content that becomes a problem due to the fact people play the game differently. You have those that will not touch pvp (with a 50 foot pole), some that never do ops, flashpoints, etc so how do they correctly put nice outfits in the game that everyone can achieve even if they don't do certain activities. That would be a problem. I am a firm believer that if they put outfits in the game then it has to be able to be achieve by everyone even if they don't do specific content.

Edited November 25, 2017 by casirabit

[GalacticKegger]

Many of the mainstream MMOs on the market offer this as a feature, and it really doesn't seem to cause too many problems overall, other than folks railing against it because it breaks some kind of personal code for them.

Those mainstream MMOs that offer this as a feature also have continuous cycles of new and fresh end game content for the players to engage after they've used the token ... making them viable for both veterans and newbs alike. That is just not the case here.

 

As far as breaking some kind of personal code, uh ... I beg to differ. It's a generational code. The same baby boomer generation that produced the greatest ever (a fighter who became an expatriate because of the War) ... that burned bras in public as a show of support for women's rights ... who sacrificed their lives for racial equality ... who invented the very video gaming industry we have today ... have all grown up and are now looking at what has become of their creations in disgust.

 

The baby boomers are the ones who stood in line overnight at their local theaters back in 1977 when 'A New Hope' first opened. They comprised the lion's share of the nearly 3 million who ponied up big time for the original SWTOR because (bugs and a few missing features notwithstanding) it was the Star Wars MMO they were promised.

 

They are the ones who grew up paying for games and their expansions because they learned what "getting what you pay for" means. They are the ones who appreciate playing a game on its merits because that's how real gamers roll. They are the ones who have grown immune to special promotions, sales pitches and cash grabs. Baby boomers are smart enough to make the correlation between "somewhat RNG ↔ RNG" and "somewhat pregnant ↔ pregnant." They get it. As a result they are also the ones EA is chasing away in favor of targeting a naive generation of players (not gamers, players - big difference) who are suckers for those special promotions, sales pitches and cash grabs because ... for whatever reason ... they aren't getting it.

 

And now EA (and likely other game developers too) are being called out for their misconduct. Who knows ... maybe the newer generations will learn something from being in the middle of a revolution. We did.

Edited November 25, 2017 by GalacticKegger