Will we hear from Bioware before the end of the day?

[TUXs]

Why? I'm being serious on this question, why does he owe an explanation to why they relocated West Coast servers to the East Coast data centre?

Because it has a major impact on a portion of the population...that's why. I believe they have a right to know why they were sacrificed.

[Jdast]

Why? I'm being serious on this question, why does he owe an explanation to why they relocated West Coast servers to the East Coast data centre?

 

Also, why would he even want to communicate with the sheer barrage of angst aimed at BioWare prior to them working out the kinks, that he's already communicated they will be doing over the next two weeks?

 

I know I wouldn't even attempt to do so, all things considered.

 

100% this. On principle alone I would never respond as a BW official in this thread for a very simple reason: it incentivizes 'demand' or 'timeline' posts.

 

One needs to separate substance vs. process. I expect that when Keith has something to say he will do so in an original thread / some type of statement. But he already issued a timeline for a response -- two weeks. You may not like it, but it's there.

 

Regardless, by virtue of the fact of moderation in other threads, I think it is safe to say they are aware of the issue and the sturm und drang it has incited.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Celise, agreed in full.

[Ylliarus]

Because it has a major impact on a portion of the population...that's why. I believe they have a right to know why they were sacrificed.

 

While I understand your point, Keith did say they needed a few weeks to smooth things out. He did openly state that and he barely posted it and people complained their pings were high while Keith just had said they would be fixing that over the next few weeks. Do you see why the developers may not respond to this issue if they just said they needed a few weeks to sort things out with the new server database?

[Valfuros]

Well icy is in the same boat i am, or island in this case. We just resubbed before the update, and now most of the game is not playable for us. They did not disclose a big decision to move the west coast server, but let people resub/transfer around who would be logging in to much different experience without being warned.

[Celise]

I'm not saying it's okay for them to call them names or lash out and attack them...but I sure as hell understand why they would. They were loyal customers. They LIKED the game. These players didn't plan to quit. They're essentially being forcibly removed from the game by Bioware...I understand their anger and hurt...and because I understand their plight, I also have no issues with how they phrase their frustrations.

 

this is the very reason i'm trying to help you and everyone else here find your way out of this endless spiral because i very much understand what you are saying. I subbed specifically because the attitude of this forum is going in a dark place and i don't wish to see you all throw it away. Sure there are problems but it's very difficult to accept how this community has fallen off the rails in reaction to them.

 

You used to respect bioware and the game, i know that, there isn't anything saying you can't do that again. My dislike of GC doesn't matter anymore, there just isn't any room for it and this is the way SWTOR is going and i have to accept it and work around it.

[TUXs]

While I understand your point, Keith did say they needed a few weeks to smooth things out. He did openly state that and he barely posted it and people complained their pings were high while Keith just had said they would be fixing that over the next few weeks. Do you see why the developers may not respond to this issue if they just said they needed a few weeks to sort things out with the new server database?

If Keith thinks he can fix their ping in a few weeks, great!!! He needs to come on here and state that. But we all know that unless they move the datacenter again, that's not going to happen.

[ThomasStarWars]

Well icy is in the same boat i am, or island in this case. We just resubbed before the update, and now most of the game is not playable for us. They did not disclose a big decision to move the west coast server, but let people resub/transfer around who would be logging in to much different experience without being warned.

 

Why don't they just host the datacenter in Austin.

[Ylliarus]

100% this. On principle alone I would never respond as a BW official in this thread for a very simple reason: it incentivizes 'demand' or 'timeline' posts.

 

One needs to separate substance vs. process. I expect that when Keith has something to say he will do so in an original thread / some type of statement. But he already issued a timeline for a response -- two weeks. You may not like it, but it's there.

 

Regardless, by virtue of the fact of moderation in other threads, I think it is safe to say they are aware of the issue and the sturm und drang it has incited.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Celise, agreed in full.

 

As always, Dasty and I are on the same page no response from the developers doesn't mean they are not aware of it. Trust me, with the dozen threads that were started about this they know there is a problem. But as already stated, they gave us a timeframe of two weeks to fix the issue regarding ping times in the original post about the subject. Yes, we should have been informed of it earlier, but their hands may have been tied with revealing this piece of information. Keep in mind EA looms over Bioware all the time.

[Celise]

Because that doesnt' cut costs. Because that doesn't save money.

 

You can wish and dream it might happen but nothing points to that being a possibility.

 

Fact is we know what bioware has done. They are choosing to not tell why or what they are doing to make it better for those that played on the west coast servers.

 

If bioware wants the pot of players to keep stewing then this is what what happens. It's toxic because their decisions breed it. It's toxic because their communication is no where near as transparant as they claimed it would be. It's toxic at tehir own underhandedness.

 

You cannot have missed their short comings and then their poor responses to those things and you wonder why players are toxic toward them?

 

Is this what you know to be true or what you think to be true? can you say for certain Bioware is currently without the right people for this game or are they assigned to another game temporarily before returning to full strength again for swtor?

[Lxndra]

While I understand your point, Keith did say they needed a few weeks to smooth things out. He did openly state that and he barely posted it and people complained their pings were high while Keith just had said they would be fixing that over the next few weeks. (snip)

 

No - that's not what he said. That's what optimists are reading into it. People who were gobsmacked by this have learned not to read into statements like that, which is why we would very much like a response. He said they would deal with performance issues and smooth things out. What does that even mean? Does that mean people with high pings will get lower pings in two weeks? If so, why not SAY that... because that would be a highly effective strategy to shut us all up.

 

And this "toxic" reaction people are having was nowhere near as toxic on Tuesday. This is the result of frustrated people who have been ignored on the forums for a couple days over an issue they have every right to be upset about.

[Valfuros]

Why don't they just host the datacenter in Austin.

 

That could possibly put us within just acceptable ping for pve at least, but i'm not sure tbh. Putting it all on one side of the country isn't smart even in a business only sense. Hopefully they have a different plan for Nov 8th.

[Ylliarus]

No - that's not what he said. That's what optimists are reading into it. People who were gobsmacked by this have learned not to read into statements like that, which is why we would very much like a response. He said they would deal with performance issues and smooth things out. What does that even mean? Does that mean people with high pings will get lower pings in two weeks? If so, why not SAY that... because that would be a highly effective strategy to shut us all up.

 

And this "toxic" reaction people are having was nowhere near as toxic on Tuesday. This is the result of frustrated people who have been ignored on the forums for a couple days over an issue they have every right to be upset about.

 

I understand you, I understand the frustration and anger, but the post was clear. Some people may not have received the information they desired or think they have a right to demand, but nonetheless a timeframe was given and it was said that they were going to do something about it to fix the ping times. Perhaps what they are doing they cannot reveal due to a NDA imposed by EA, has anyone considered that?

Edited October 26, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Celise]

No - that's not what he said. That's what optimists are reading into it. People who were gobsmacked by this have learned not to read into statements like that, which is why we would very much like a response. He said they would deal with performance issues and smooth things out. What does that even mean? Does that mean people with high pings will get lower pings in two weeks? If so, why not SAY that... because that would be a highly effective strategy to shut us all up.

 

And this "toxic" reaction people are having was nowhere near as toxic on Tuesday. This is the result of frustrated people who have been ignored on the forums for a couple days over an issue they have every right to be upset about.

 

Thing is people read between things and see what they want to see and react, but what if they are ignoring what is said on the surface instead?

 

Improving the performance and smooth things is reducing the lag and making it consistent. If the APAC players give Bioware a chance to try first and see what comes of it, then we will know where we all stand. There isn't anything wrong by trying and waiting it out.

[Ylliarus]

Thing is people read between things and see what they want to see and react, but what if they are ignoring what is said on the surface instead?

 

Improving the performance and smooth things is reducing the lag and making it consistent. If the APAC players give Bioware a chance to try first and see what comes of it, then we will know where we all stand. There isn't anything wrong by trying and waiting it out.

 

Basically my first reaction, they stated two weeks, thus we should give them two weeks. If the ping times aren't fixed by then, then people have a right to politely remark of this and let their dissatisfaction be known.

[Celise]

Basically my first reaction, they stated two weeks, thus we should give them two weeks. If the ping times aren't fixed by then, then people have a right to politely remark of this and let their dissatisfaction be known.

 

yes i agree with this.

[Icykill_]

I know, the developers have indeed made some wrong decisions in my opinion, one of those decisions being that they didn't tell us about the moving and removal of the west coast server database. Yet if we want our opinion and voices to be heard, we have to remain civil because no one will listen to insults and toxic wording. For example there is a thread called "whos the retard that took away westcoast servers". If I were the devs I wouldn't even read or touch it, secondly, I'd have it removed and deleted because the title is plain insulting. Yet if there are sensible discussions with negative opinions being politely expressed, I would read that and see it as feedback to use (if I were a dev).

 

Past experiences over the years seem to show the only time player responses are taken seriously is when there is over whelming rage like we have now... did the title of that other thread go to far?.. yes I think it did... but I can see where the outburst came from...

 

You would cringe if you saw half the stuff I write and then delete or reword to try and be more diplomatic... even though that title they used is wrong... it was also a refreshingly honest emotion... and I can tell you I thought close to the same thing when I found out...

LOL... you should have seen the first title of my thread and first draft of my post... It was so radioactive... I think it might have melted the forum server if I’d posted it... I know they would never have allow me to post again 😳

People are only reacting this way and are so emotional because they care... if they didn’t... they would just say F you Bioware and leave with not post or comment...

 

I hate trolling as much as anyone... especially the professional hobby trolls who know just how far they can go to bait you and make you lose your s**t and get you banned... we’ve all been on the receiving end of them...

I understand everyone is welcome to an opinion and to post... but there are some people standing around this fuel ladden combustible disaster and throwing matches at it to see it burn people... they don’t care if it hurts...

People are hurting over this and emotions are high... a little common decency from some of those match throwers and white knights might help alleviate some of the tenesion and rage...

 

We shouldn’t be fighting each other... we should all have a united front to show Bioware how major this problem is...

I think I can speak for the APAC community in thanking all those supporting posts from our fellow players in EU and the US... I am really grateful for those posts and its so great to see such a response from those who it doesn’t even affect... thank you guys from the bottom of my heart... it means a lot to know you are behind us too.

[Lxndra]

I(snip) a timeframe was given and it was said that they were going to do something about it to fix the ping times.(snip)

 

Please reread his statement. He never said he was going to fix the ping times. He said they were going to address performance issues and smooth out any kinks.

 

So... is the new increase ping considered a performance issue? Or is it only the spikes that are considered a performance issue? Or is none of this considered a performance issue and they're more concerned about something else? What is considered a "kink?" The entire game being unplayable by the continent of Australia? Is that a "kink?"

 

No - he was vague. I would assume he was deliberately vague, but giving the benefit of the doubt perhaps he didn't understand his words were ambiguous. Hence, the request (some made more politely than others, I grant you) for a response.

[kodrac]

Over the past few months this forum has lost some of it's good standing.

 

Wait, what? This forum has been dog eat dog since it's inception.

[SolarSaenz]

100% this. On principle alone I would never respond as a BW official in this thread for a very simple reason: it incentivizes 'demand' or 'timeline' posts.

 

One needs to separate substance vs. process. I expect that when Keith has something to say he will do so in an original thread / some type of statement. But he already issued a timeline for a response -- two weeks. You may not like it, but it's there.

 

Regardless, by virtue of the fact of moderation in other threads, I think it is safe to say they are aware of the issue and the sturm und drang it has incited.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Celise, agreed in full.

 

That is just bad customer service and bad PR. You can make an argument that F2Pers don't "deserve" a response since they are not truly customers, maybe it's a stretch but kinda still works for preferred. But, for the subscribers, if I am a paying customer, and for no apparent given reason, the product or service I am receiving is downgraded, as a paying customer I do have a right to at least an explanation of why the change in service or product quality.

 

I know some people here act like spoiled children throwing a temper tantrum, but paying customer still need to be treated as such. BW/EA doesn't have to, nor is it needed or realistically expected of them, respond to every single paying customer in the APAC region. But, I feel they do need to give a public explain why they decided to not have a west coast server.

 

Keep in mind, BW doesn't exist as a charity organization. No. We are in a business relationship with them, a sub category of software as a service business. That software as service just happens to be PC gaming. but, never the less, they should always be professional and try to treat their customers with respect.

And, customer-business relationships are a two way street. Maybe some people act like spoiled children, but I also see BW hold their customer in contempt.

 

If I at my job acted with the same level of contempt to my company's customers the way BW acted towards us, I'd have been let go a long time ago.

If you honestly don't know what I'm talking about when I say "I also see BW hold their customer in contempt", I'm sure there is no shortage of players who will fill you in.

 

TL;DR: some people act like whiny children, but that doesn't relieve BW/EA of the duty of trying to deliver good customer service and good customer relations.

Edited October 26, 2017 by SolarSaenz

[kodrac]

The vague "we'll work out the kinks" is not reassuring to people who were misled regarding the server merges and are now finding the game frustrating at best (WC - do some pvp or WBs and feel like you're running through molasses) and unplayable (APAC) at worst... because "this won't effect your gameplay" is blatantly untrue. It *has* affected our gameplay, significantly.

 

This is a great response and explanation, but it doesn't get traction because there's no drama or mud slinging involved. I'm reposting in hopes this is the message that comes across.

[TUXs]

You don't "sort out" latency caused by physical distance. Your ignorance of physics is tiring.

Well, unless they can figure out quantum entanglement in two weeks...which would be really cool!

[DWho]

Why don't they just host the datacenter in Austin.

 

Mostly because they didn't have one there. They had datacenters on the West coast and East coast so those were the logical places to consolidate to. Placing one in Austin would have twice the cost (at least) of moving only one datacenter. It really sucks for the APAC people that the East coast datacenter was chosen but there was likely a cost incentive to choose it over the West coast center. The total number of players on the servers probably played into it (along with expected shifts in population as a result of the mergers) and with the understanding that the change for people on the West coast would not be significant (no different than East coast players currently playing on Harbinger for better pop times).

[DWho]

Well, unless they can figure out quantum entanglement in two weeks...which would be really cool!

 

Data networks do adjust to traffic over time as they optimize themselves. There is some reason to believe that pings from the West coast will improve and will probably settle somewhere in the 75-100 ms range.

[TUXs]

Data networks do adjust to traffic over time as they optimize themselves. There is some reason to believe that pings from the West coast will improve and will probably settle somewhere in the 75-100 ms range.

Clearly I was joking...

[Jdast]

That is just bad customer service and bad PR. You can make an argument that F2Pers don't "deserve" a response since they are not truly customers, maybe it's a stretch but kinda still works for preferred. But, for the subscribers, if I am a paying customer, and for no apparent given reason, the product or service I am receiving is downgraded, as a paying customer I do have a right to at least an explanation of why the change in service or product quality.

 

I know some people here act like spoiled children throwing a temper tantrum, but paying customer still need to be treated as such. BW/EA doesn't have to, nor is it needed or realistically expected of them, respond to every single paying customer in the APAC region. But, I feel they do need to give a public explain why they decided to not have a west coast server.

 

Keep in mind, BW doesn't exist as a charity organization. No. We are in a business relationship with them, a sub category of software as a service business. That software as service just happens to be PC gaming. but, never the less, they should always be professional and try to treat their customers with respect.

And, customer-business relationships are a two way street. Maybe some people act like spoiled children, but I also see BW hold their customer in contempt.

 

If I at my job acted with the same level of contempt to my company's customers the way BW acted towards us, I'd have been let go a long time ago.

If you honestly don't know what I'm talking about when I say "I also see BW hold their customer in contempt", I'm sure there is no shortage of players who will fill you in.

 

TL;DR: some people act like whiny children, but that doesn't relieve BW/EA of the duty of trying to deliver good customer service and good customer relations.

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said per se and we all have the right to react accordingly as individuals -- whether that means canceling a sub, leaving the game entirely, etc.

 

But for whatever reason, he said he needs two weeks to address performance issues and work out the kinks. I agree that is vague and for many unsatisfying. Maybe it's he doesn't know the answers and has to wait until he gets a full report from his tech guys, I have no idea. But if he truly doesn't know the answer yet, what can he realistically and reasonably say?

 

What I do know, though, is that he opens up Pandora's Box if he starts replying to "you have until the end of the day" and "I demand" type threads. Then every single thread will have Keith's first name in the title with a demanding timeline, with the cumulative result that this forum sinks further into the abyss.

 

Regardless of the PR aspect, APAC players in particular have a right to be concerned. Whether 'Keith lied, my Jedi died' is true or not is irrelevant at the end of the day. Ultimately, regardless of spin and PR, if performance issues keep APAC players from being able to reliably play the game then they will (and should) leave.

 

Dasty

Edited October 26, 2017 by Jdast