Ylliarus Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) Read.......the......eula....... Then we talk again..... If you ignore this hint all of your gibbling is just nonsense Alright, I read it and I admit, there is a passage that does say that EA or Bioware cannot guarantuee that the game will be playable all the time, day and night and everywhere (mind you, not being able to guarantuee doesn't equal having no rights). Happy? The APAC players aren't! Naturally it's easier for you and me since we are not affected by the datacenter move, so we just look at all of it from afar. You say they just have to suck it up, I have an entirely different perspective. The EULA is what it is, a declining gamer population also. To counter a declining gamer population I'd really want to see Bioware adressing the issue of the higher ping times in some form or way that will satisfy the APAC players. Naturally they don't have to, but I think it would be smart to do it. What that solution would be I don't know and I don't even dare to ponder what that could be, but I am confident something can be done (not about the laws of physics naturally). Edited October 26, 2017 by Ylliarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holanos Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) Alright, I read it and I admit, there is a passage that does say that EA or Bioware cannot guarantuee that the game will be playable all the time, day and night and everywhere. Happy? The APAC players aren't! Naturally it's easier for you and me since we are not affected by the datacenter move, so we just look at all of it from afar. You say they just have to suck it up, I have an entirely different perspective. The EULA is what it is, a declining gamer population also. To counter a declining gamer population I'd really want to see Bioware adressing the issue of the higher ping times in some form or way that will satisfy the APAC players. What that solution would be I don't know and I don't even dare to ponder what that could be, but I am confident something can be done (not about the laws of physics naturally). And they WILL adress to it....but not because they are forced to but out of good will..... And complain posts like this will not make the race towards a solution faster or helps them to find a solution in any way.....so why start a thread like this? Edited October 26, 2017 by Holanos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) And they WILL adress to it....but not because they are forced to but out of good will..... And complain posts like this will not make the race towards a solution faster or helps them to find a solution in any way.....so why start one? Dude... I didn't start this thread... I just engaged in a discussion that was already going on... Also, "not because they are forced to" is a matter of perspective. If they want to stop a declining gamer population one might as well state that they'd be forced to come up with a solution. Not by their EULA or anything, but by their goals for this game. Edited October 26, 2017 by Ylliarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holanos Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Dude... I didn't start this thread... I just engaged in a discussion that was already going on... I know this......but you are constantly "defending" the non-existing "rights" of the "poor 300 ping players"...... So you keep this alive and up.......this is not helpful at all either..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 So you keep this alive and up.......this is not helpful at all either..... So are you by continuing to post and argue with Yllia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holanos Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 So are you by continuing to post and argue with Yllia. yeah i'm not better in any way..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Wait, what? This forum has been dog eat dog since it's inception. Yes and no. It's definitely not been in a great place for quite a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) I know this......but you are constantly "defending" the non-existing "rights" of the "poor 300 ping players"...... So you keep this alive and up.......this is not helpful at all either..... Yes, I am one of the people who keeps this alive as it is an issue that has to be in the developer's line of sight, in my opinion. You are not experiencing any issues, which is all fine and good and I am happy for you. But have you had a 300+ ping? Have you tried gaming with such a high ping? From what I read and heard people are not able to properly play warzones without heavy lag or normal PvE content for that matter. That doesn't sound like the game is functioning properly for them, right? If you are bothered by the fact someone is standing up for people who face an issue that they don't, then you have the option of putting me on ignore. You are not obligated to respond to me, of course. Edited October 26, 2017 by Ylliarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJWyler Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) I know but please, please, please understand I am not talking about speeding up the speed of light or defy the laws of physics... I was thinking about a datacenter closer to the APAC region or links to the old ones, maybe Bioware will reconsider and seal a contract with such a center. I don't know what they can do, but I just can't believe they'll sacrifice the entirety of the APAC region just to have one datacenter in the US. They originally had at least three APAC servers years ago. Those closed due to lack of a playerbase in that region to keep them viable. Presumably, one of the reasons to consolidate in Virginia, is much of the same. They are not going to reverse course on something like this and suddenly open up a new server farm in the APAC region when it is simply not sustainable. I have to agree. I'm sickened over the decision, but, it is what it is, and it will not change. APAC players can take it or leave it...Bioware made their decision knowing full well what impact it would have on you. I have never experienced anything like this ever before and I don't know how to feel...a struggling game intentionally making it literally impossible for a chunk of their customers to play...I just do not get it at all. I stay up late and play with plenty of APAC players...I'm going to miss them all and I am sick thinking that they're being forced from the game. Well, for me, it's not that much different from a dev making design and mechanics decisions and changes in a game that removes someone's ability to enjoy said game as they had before. Obviously this is slightly different in that it is more of an actual physical problem playing the game, but the end result is the same. Someone feels like the game just pushed them away, and the devs don't care about them. Unfortunately, that happens far to often in the industry, and I have experienced it enough to accept it as it happens (doesn't make me any less aggravated when it happens, but I end up coming to grips with it a lot faster). Yes, I am one of the people who keeps this alive as it is an issue that has to be in the developer's line of sight, in my opinion. You are not experiencing any issues, which is all fine and good and I am happy for you. But have you had a 300+ ping? Have you tried gaming with such a high ping? Let me answer this in part. Yes. Not this particular game as I am fortunate enough to be on the East Coast (though in the past, I have been struck with many a performance issue in this game nonetheless). However, I have played a lot of games in my time - many with decent connections; others not so much. However, in those cases where the latter prevailed I made a choice - either to continue to play if the high ping was not so onerous as to make playing unenjoyable, or not to play at all. Never once did I demand that the devs or publisher of the game restructure their server farm so that I could play with a lower ping. Edited October 26, 2017 by BJWyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Yes and no. It's definitely not been in a great place for quite a while now. No it hasn't but for the past while I fully get gamers problems with bioware. I get why it's not a great place. bioware hasn't done much to make it a great place and when you consistently make your limited forum goers feel the way bioware make them feel. Well, this is what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holanos Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) Yes, I am one of the people who keeps this alive as it is an issue that has to be in the developer's line of sight, in my opinion. You are not experiencing any issues, which is all fine and good and I am happy for you. But have you had a 300+ ping? Have you tried gaming with such a high ping? From what I read and heard people are not able to properly play warzones without heavy lag or normal PvE content for that matter. That doesn't sound like the game is functioning properly for them, right? If you are bothered by the fact someone is standing up for people who face an issue that they don't, then you have the option of putting me on ignore. You are not obligated to respond to me, of course. It's no issue.....you can play...maybe not as conviniend as before but you can.... I stated this multiple times now...you pay for the right to log-in not for the quality of your connection....so where do you see your "right" in demanding a better one? The game works,you can log-in so there is no "issue".... Many people demanded a merge and forget the fact that Physic is no "solvable issue"....:-) And again...300 is no "heavy lag" this is totally normal for many games with centralized servers... "Heavy lag" begins at 10k......300 is nothing.... Edited October 27, 2017 by Holanos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 SNIP... And again...300 is no "heavy lag" this is totally normal for many games with centralized servers... "Heavy lag" begins at 10k......300 is nothing.... In combination with the engine swtor uses that simply doesn't work. In a well optimized game sure, you might can get away with the hiccups 300 ping might give but you combine that with the engine swtor is using and it just gets worse and thats just the ability delay. With this engine, I wouldn't play swtor with a 300 ping. Especially so if it was anything like PVP or OPS. Sure you can do it but the fun and entertainment would be sucked right out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 In combination with the engine swtor uses that simply doesn't work. In a well optimized game sure, you might can get away with the hiccups 300 ping might give but you combine that with the engine swtor is using and it just gets worse and thats just the ability delay. With this engine, I wouldn't play swtor with a 300 ping. Especially so if it was anything like PVP or OPS. Sure you can do it but the fun and entertainment would be sucked right out of it. Multiple people have tried to relay this but sadly the poster in question has dismissed this and claims without providing proof of their claims the game is playable at 300+ ping, while people who said it's unplayable did provide proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holanos Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Multiple people have tried to relay this but sadly the poster in question has dismissed this and claims without providing proof of their claims the game is playable at 300+ ping, while people who said it's unplayable did provide proof. Because those people are just claimimng their non-existing "rights to demand a not broken game to be "repaired"" This is nonsense and has to be ignored by BW.... The merge was demanded and now some people raged because of their unconvinience....that's all.... Nothing more behind this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Because those people are just claimimng their non-existing "rights to demand a not broken game to be "repaired"" This is nonsense and has to be ignored by BW.... The merge was demanded and now some people raged because of their unconvinience....that's all.... Nothing more behind this..... You just love to repeat that no one has any right to anything, do you? Do you like the concept of not having any rights that much? I really have no desire to debate any further with you because it is evident we are both on very opposite sides and none of us will budge an inch. Let's just agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Because those people are just claimimng their non-existing "rights to demand a not broken game to be "repaired"" This is nonsense and has to be ignored by BW.... The merge was demanded and now some people raged because of their unconvinience....that's all.... Nothing more behind this..... So I'm going to just take a guess here that you are NOT playing on the NA servers nor are you impacted negatively by the recent changes. What happens when they merge Europe servers to NA? You going to say the same thing then or be just as pissed off as users are in this thread? I'm pissed - I'm not on the west coast, but impacted negatively by this unannounced change to move everything even further from my location (Increasing both my latency - which on East Coast servers SUCKED to start with as well my patience for this game). SUB loss will happen and I'm sure that was a factor, but money was ultimately the reason. Game slides further into maintenance mode the virtual servers hosting both new regions are on the same hardware and can be quickly load balanced at little cost impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 And they WILL adress to it....but not because they are forced to but out of good will..... And complain posts like this will not make the race towards a solution faster or helps them to find a solution in any way.....so why start a thread like this? When EA management watches their declining earnings, I can guarantee you they will be forced to address it. EA isnt at all shy when it comes to money. Also, EULA is only valid as long as it does not violate EU(in europe) law. If they are told to address it by a judge, they will address it or shut down EU operations. EULAs are not some magical get out of jail card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 When EA management watches their declining earnings, I can guarantee you they will be forced to address it. EA isnt at all shy when it comes to money. Also, EULA is only valid as long as it does not violate EU(in europe) law. If they are told to address it by a judge, they will address it or shut down EU operations. EULAs are not some magical get out of jail card. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 You just love to repeat that no one has any right to anything, do you? Do you like the concept of not having any rights that much? I really have no desire to debate any further with you because it is evident we are both on very opposite sides and none of us will budge an inch. Let's just agree to disagree. He is trolling you. No one demanded that the datacenters be combined and he knows that perfectly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 It's no issue.....you can play...maybe not as conviniend as before but you can.... I stated this multiple times now...you pay for the right to log-in not for the quality of your connection....so where do you see your "right" in demanding a better one? The game works,you can log-in so there is no "issue".... Many people demanded a merge and forget the fact that Physic is no "solvable issue"....:-) And again...300 is no "heavy lag" this is totally normal for many games with centralized servers... "Heavy lag" begins at 10k......300 is nothing.... We'll be sure to remind you of these posts when EA inevitably merges all the EU servers into the East Coast data center as well. I'm sure you'll be defending them still when YOUR ping goes up because of thousands of miles more distance between you and your server, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holanos Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) You just love to repeat that no one has any right to anything, do you? Do you like the concept of not having any rights that much? I really have no desire to debate any further with you because it is evident we are both on very opposite sides and none of us will budge an inch. Let's just agree to disagree. It's not important if i like it or not....it is as it is....and you kicking your red shoes 3 times to be back in kansas will change nothing dorothy..... Simply understand this sole fact.... Edited October 27, 2017 by Holanos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 He is trolling you. No one demanded that the datacenters be combined and he knows that perfectly well. Agreed ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 It's not important if i like it or not....it is as it is....and you kicking your red shoes 3 times to be back in kansas will change nothing dorothy..... Simply understand this sole fact.... The only facts we are getting is you don’t live in the US or APAC and it doesn’t affect you.... and the continued posts to antagonise us are for no reason but some sort of pleasure at seeing other people suffer or be upset... So seeing as none of this affects you personally... how about stop making the problem worse by continuing to throw fuel on the fire,.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyAnn Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) sigh The pot calling the kettle black... they have to do something to solve this issue as they can't leave it unresolved, is that so difficult to understand? Whether that means making links to old datacenters or reconsidering and sealing contracts with other datacenters closer to the APAC region, I DON'T KNOW. But it is evident they have to come up with a solution to this issue. They have come up with a solution to this issue: Combine all datacenters in the US to the one on the east coast. So you're saying a datacenter closer to the APAC region would not work? Which is a solution I proposed? Did I ever say they have to magically change to laws of physics? NO. But there has to be a solution, closer to the APAC region, links to the old datacenters, I DON'T KNOW. But they have to do something. Unless you don't want something to be done and just complain they moved datacenters? They are not going to put a new data canter closer to the APAC region or they would have kept the one they already had. ...but I just can't believe they'll sacrifice the entirety of the APAC region just to have one datacenter in the US. Except they just did that very thing. Look, I appreciate that you are trying to find a silver lining here, but there just isn't one. Any adjusting that Bioware does over the next two weeks to the "performance" of the game for people will likely only affect those who didn't rely on those adjustments to play at all, and none of them will make the game playable for APAC and Oceanic folks simply due to the fact that putting the servers on the East Coast sets the minimum ping levels in stone. And it is stone that makes it impossible to not have a single red bar or red X 100% of the time. Unplayable. It might improve performance for people in California, if they stick around for two weeks to see and every single one of their friends/family/guildmates hasn't already fled the sinking ship that is SWTOR. There are a lot of people who have no sympathy for those in the situation, having paid for sub time that they now cannot use because all they are capable of doing in the game is logging in and lagging badly enough to render the game unplayable as they stand still on the fleet. But I tend to ignore those people, and you should too. Optimism and hopefulness will not reverse the course of this business decision. APAC players have been considered an acceptable loss when looking at the bottom line. It hastens the end of this game to lose even more players, but I'm pretty sure they are doing the preparations for that day already anyway, and this is probably just part of that. Edited to add: The optimism and hopefulness that Bioware would do something that benefits the players in these situations has been sapped from most of us - particularly those of us who have been here since Beta and seen it happen time and time again. That's the main reason you don't see a lot of it here on the forums, it has been wrung out of most of us by continued situations just like this one. Edited October 28, 2017 by PennyAnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holanos Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) It's not worth the time PennyAnn They are absolutely convinced that this is some kind of conspiration ...a BW/EA plot to hinder them to play.... Nothing you say will convince them of the opposite.... This is how this works....neitherless what you say THEY are the victims and furthermore they are surronded by enemies... And IF you put their nose on the facts,saying that their "rights" are just an illusion you are a troll.....or hate americans.... Edited October 28, 2017 by Holanos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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