Tank Corner

[cyrusramsey]

Ok. I've tried hard to explain this to you. You refuse to read the words. We do need to let this go.

 

I WAS NOT COMPARING MM FPs/NiM OPs TO COLORS.

 

I was attempting to explain reasoning through association. I was breaking down the sentence you were having trouble with and attempting to explain it using association with two different subjects. I only have the English language to explain this.

 

Forget the color thing please. I was wrong. I made the matter worse. Please forget anything about colors.

 

 

 

 

 

So let's go back to the original sentence for everybody else to see.

 

 

 

Let's break down this ^ original sentence you had a problem with.

 

In the above sentence what word exactly tells you that I'm comparing HM FPs to Operations? Is it the word "or?"

 

I honestly hope the moderators are reading this. I'm trying to be as nice to you as possible but I actually think you're trolling....To everyone else, I'm so so sorry about this. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here. Am I feeding a troll? It truly feels like it.

 

Now I'm talking MM FP or MM/NiM Ops, not vet mode or story mode.

 

I think the bit that he tripped over (since I did as well, but chose not to engage) was that you single out 'MM' while ignoring 'vet' and 'story', when veteran operations are (well, for the most part) quite a bit harder than master mode flashpoints.

 

Now you didn't specify FPs or ops regarding "not vet mode or story mode", but the implication seemed to be that you only wanted to talk about the most difficult content "Now I'm talking MM FP or MM/NiM Ops", and not about the easier content "not vet mode or story mode", when, as said, veteran ops are, for the most part, harder than master mode flashpoints.

 

Now I'm not sure how important all of this is, but I think perhaps you phrased that sentence a bit unfortunately.

[RagnarAugustus]

This has been happening for a while with all the classes, not just tanks. People do not know how to gear, or play their class. And God forbid if you say anything, their response is always, "I will be fine."

.

 

It's always been an issue, but the issue of people not knowing their classes seemed to balloon as the original 12x XP where people shot up to max level in a record amount of time without learning how to play their class. This naturally translated into PUG FP and OPs wipes.

[JattaGin]

A good tank must run around like a chicken with their head gone "touching" all npc mobs to gain all aggro. Remember your healer will take damage from any mob that is not "touched" by the tank or dps. A new tank doesn't understand this and thinks the bubble will be enough to protect the healer (don't bubble the healer. You're just making their job harder. Yes harder because now the highest dps will be stealing aggro from you thus forcing the healer to heal that dps more).

 

No wonder you don't find any good tanks in this game.

[Anniahilus]

Apologize if this got answered earlier in the thread. I've been out of SWTOR for about 2 years, just came back. I enjoy PT Tanking. Am I just not getting it or does a lot of the tank gear with low Endurance values? I have begun working through the process of command and upgrading gear, but man, it seems like if I have gear value the same as my GF who is a healer, and she's beating me by 5k - 10k Hitpoints. I understand that defense (avoidance), shield & absorb (mitigation), but it seems odd that equal gearing has tanks on the low end. Like I said, I may be doing something wrong. Just curious if I'm missing something.

[Kaldron_Fell]

Oops, sorry for the wall of text

 

I've been a hardcore DPS guy for a long time now. I take my role seriously, which means always taking everything serious as far as mechanics go and never underestimating the task at hand. I try to contribute in any way I can to make life easier for everyone. I peel properly, I CC, offheal and revive where required and useful without neglecting my main task, killing the enemy as quickly as possible.

 

Now, as it happens, there is a shortage of tanks everywhere so I thought the time had come to get my feet wet and try something new. So I made a immo jug, did lots of solo content with my companion set to DPS (just as someone suggested earlier, to learn to take care of myself and to learn to get and keep aggro) and all that, and when I got to level 70, I got myself some real nice tank gear. Actual tank gear, with shield and absorb in proper proportions, proper relics and of course a shield generator.

 

So then at first I did some veteran FPs, and that seemed like an entirely futile exercise because nobody cares that you want to learn to tank in a vet, it's just rush rush rush and to hell with everyone else. So I started doing HM FPs with my guildies, and that seemed easy enough. So I tanked a few ops, and that seemed easy enough.

 

Now, after doing this for a while (enough to be around command rank 200) I can say it's the most boring thing I've done in a while.

 

Doing mobs is at least somewhat interesting because you can endeavor to "collect them all" and keep everything off of everyone. That is a bit of a challenge. But... tanking Tyth on SM? Could there be anything more boring and less challenging? I'll continue to do it, because without someone taking the bullet,nothing will happen. But I probably won't be enjoying it as much as DPSing. IMHO, DPSing is a lot more of a challenge, at least at the content difficulty I'm playing (HM FPs, SM OPs).

 

As DPS, I have to

• Protect the healer
  
• Stay out of stupid
  
• Consider who to attack when
  
• Consider who to interrupt when
  
• Self-heal where necessary
  
• Consider my defenses
  
• Perform the best possible rotation for maximum damage
  

 

whereas as tank, I have to

• Self-heal where necessary
  
• Consider my defenses
  
• Keep boss aggro, which is easy with threat bonus to dmg and taunts for when boss wants to swap aggro
  

 

Oh and maybe I have to decide which DPS to guard. And yeah, sometimes you may have to tank swap. But honestly, most of the time I just stand there and look pretty.

 

Or at least that is my first impression after a while. Am I completely wrong, or is tanking pretty boring?

 

 

Oh and while we're here, a pet peeve:

 

You've not tanked before but hey how hard can it be, you're the superman of DPSing, right?

You're one of those guys that read here on the forums that you can just skank tank all content in the game and that you never need tank gear, and that with dps gear you get more aggro and the bosses go down faster?

And you're further one of those that say that, if the healer is semi competent they can easily heal you through it no matter what, after all it's not NiM ops?

And if they fail to keep you alive because you're not even using a shield generator, you tell them it's all their fault and that they suck as healers?

 

If that's the case, please please stay away from the HM FP queue and please never join any PUG for any content, because all you will do is outsource your job to someone else and be a burden for everyone else. Because you don't do your job (soaking damage) you make other peoples jobs way harder. Not cool, and not fair.

 

If you're one of those experienced super tanks that laughs in NiM Raptus' face, then go ahead, you know what you're doing. If you know your healer and he's okay with it, go ahead. In every other case , just don't

 

tl;dr: tanking is boring, imho. YMMV, of course. Also, inexperienced skank tanks in PvE content HM FP or up are wrong.

[Khaleijo]

Apologize if this got answered earlier in the thread. I've been out of SWTOR for about 2 years, just came back. I enjoy PT Tanking. Am I just not getting it or does a lot of the tank gear with low Endurance values? I have begun working through the process of command and upgrading gear, but man, it seems like if I have gear value the same as my GF who is a healer, and she's beating me by 5k - 10k Hitpoints. I understand that defense (avoidance), shield & absorb (mitigation), but it seems odd that equal gearing has tanks on the low end. Like I said, I may be doing something wrong. Just curious if I'm missing something.

 

Healers and DPS don't have defensive stats on their gear, they rely only on health to survive.

Tanks on the other hand reduce the damage they get by their defensive stats before any health is taken away, so they don't really need the highest health pool. Operation tanks need enough health to survive certain spike attacks, but more health is mostly wasted and the stats usually better invested to reduce the overall damage taken.

Damage not taken doesn't have to be healed, so the healer is free to heal the group or even do some damage too.

[Zerileth]

No wonder you don't find any good tanks in this game.

 

Can you elaborate? No. Hit and run. Got it.

[cyrusramsey]

Oops, sorry for the wall of text

 

It depends..

 

There are encounters where a tank really does little more than stand there and take it. Boring? Eh, I don't mind it, I don't consider it any less boring than firing through a rotation as dps (and you know there are encounters where that's all you're doing as dps), but there are most definitely many places where a tank needs to be on their toes the entire time.

 

In the end a good tank is the foundation the rest of the group builds on. A good tank allows the rest of the group to work well, and while my lack of assertiveness makes it not the most natural role for me, I find there is little more rewarding than providing a smooth experience for my group, regardless of whether they're guildies or randoms.

 

I like the variation and play all roles, but just meant to throw in another point of view, as to me DPS will always be the most dull role.

[Zerileth]

The OP is a troll, but the worst kind ....

 

Actually, a lot of what you said is good input. Thanks for contributing. I don't understand the personal attacks. But whatever makes you feel better.

[CheeryCola]

I mostly pug tank MM FPs so i suppose that means i don’t see other tanks tanking really

 

I can talk about MY life as a pug tank tho!

 

I don’t really like Ops everyone seems to take them so seriously and you don’t really need a tank in most Vets so tbh i feel like ppl groan when they see a tank pop up in GF . But that’s ok I’m happy just derping about in MM FPs . (Tho qs are RLY slow on TRE just now tho. Even for a tank :/)

 

Things that put me off tanking is people saying nothing in chat except obv “skip” which they pretty much always say after they’ve spent most of the FP doing nothing or standing in ttly the wrong place . It takes about 2 secs to say hello and thanks

 

But most annoying is people pulling stuff or telling me how to tank. I know the pulls RLY well so when someone (its MOSTLY a merc ) decides to show off and pull groups before me it just slows things down :/ I have to use my cds to save the healer who usually gets the aggro so it takes longer to kill all of them in that pull and then the NEXT pull takes longer bcos my carbonise is on cd or i can’t use grapple :/

 

I know people wld rage at this but id like to see deeps lose their def cds in FPs especially reflects. Its just weird deeps having reflects (or taunt!). I think that way people might appreciate tanks and healers a bit more and be a bit more patient with them learning stuff

 

I know it won’t happen tho

[TUXs]

Mand you really need to come join our server & guild!!

He's on it and in it (Pub side).

[CaptRogue]

He's on it and in it (Pub side).

 

Oh! *face palm* I got him confused with another one from EU server I was talking too! lol *blonde moment but not blonde*

Glad to see Mand got an invite!! lol

[ThrakhathSpawn]

I mostly pug tank MM FPs so i suppose that means i don’t see other tanks tanking really

 

I can talk about MY life as a pug tank tho!

 

I don’t really like Ops everyone seems to take them so seriously and you don’t really need a tank in most Vets so tbh i feel like ppl groan when they see a tank pop up in GF . But that’s ok I’m happy just derping about in MM FPs . (Tho qs are RLY slow on TRE just now tho. Even for a tank :/)

 

Things that put me off tanking is people saying nothing in chat except obv “skip” which they pretty much always say after they’ve spent most of the FP doing nothing or standing in ttly the wrong place . It takes about 2 secs to say hello and thanks

 

But most annoying is people pulling stuff or telling me how to tank. I know the pulls RLY well so when someone (its MOSTLY a merc ) decides to show off and pull groups before me it just slows things down :/ I have to use my cds to save the healer who usually gets the aggro so it takes longer to kill all of them in that pull and then the NEXT pull takes longer bcos my carbonise is on cd or i can’t use grapple :/

 

I know people wld rage at this but id like to see deeps lose their def cds in FPs especially reflects. Its just weird deeps having reflects (or taunt!). I think that way people might appreciate tanks and healers a bit more and be a bit more patient with them learning stuff

 

I know it won’t happen tho

 

You know, when it comes to trash, a good pair of DPS can trash the mob in the length of their DCD. If instead of freaking out, you work with it, you'll be clearing faster.

 

I am very good at all roles, and I see not using some of the reflects and DCD's that DPS have on trash as a waste. I love it when I can get a good DPS that understands this; and can mange their positioning and mob positioning as they do it.

[CheeryCola]

You know, when it comes to trash, a good pair of DPS can trash the mob in the length of their DCD. If instead of freaking out, you work with it, you'll be clearing faster.

 

I am very good at all roles, and I see not using some of the reflects and DCD's that DPS have on trash as a waste. I love it when I can get a good DPS that understands this; and can mange their positioning and mob positioning as they do it.

 

so cool, I love it when guys who are very good at everything take time to explain stuff to me

 

but all i was ACTUALLY saying was some of the stuff in the game makes ppl not value tanks so much so the FP tanks there are get kind of cheesed off bcos they don't feel needed

 

if deeps get to play at being tank I want a mega 1 shot kill skill so I can play at being deeps

[Dmnqwk]

I have a bit of tanking experience, having taken up the mantle of tanking throughout various games for the last 15 years (The 5 years before that I was healing-focused) an I think too many tanks are given the short end of the stick when it comes down to it.

 

1) Tanking every mob.

Too many DPS whine and moan that they are taking damage in a majority of games. A tank should be using the health pool of every single player, not just their own, to maintain control over the situation. If a healer can get more throughput by using AoE heals and/or HoTs with a return in excess of the increased damage taken by a DPS against a tank, then surely it would make sense to pick up the majority of the mobs and/or the ones causing the real damage? Apparently not in most people's cases which is why tanks face a lot of abuse.

 

2) Interrupt.

If a good tank is a 1 in a million, then a good dps is far rarer than that. We're not just talking how much damage they put out per second, but their ability to remember their primary role in any group setting is to ensure victory. And victory comes with a price, often in the form of having to interrupt, or CC, or attack a single target instead of AoEing/Dotting everything.

 

3) Tanks control the speed

Why does a tank control the speed? They don't. It's a fallacy to believe a single person can control the entire group's speed. It's a team effort, and unless you actually don't require the team (in most online games there comes a point when you can solo group content, meaning you don't need to wait for everybody) you need to work together. Communication is often limited, so when a healer needs a minute they often don't ask for one, and struggle to keep up causing a new tank (who has worse gear, or limited experience using cooldowns) to die and then get blamed for "not waiting on the healer!" When you get into this situation, don't spread blame if someone makes a mistake, encouragement is the only way people will want to keep tanking (or healing, or even playing!)

 

When it comes to online games, very few are built to make tanking any easier or more difficult than the others so the rarity of tanks will usually come down to two things: 1) how cool it is to be something else, and 2) how much abuse they suffer from the community. In Swtor, tanks use the same weapons, have the same flashy moves as DPS so it's fair to say the effect of number 1 is minor, so if finding tanks in Swtor is difficult it is more likely down to point 2, the abuse they suffer. So try to remember giving tanks abuse isn't necessary, unless they are being rude people. And even then, just ignore them and move on.

[nyrkverse]

 

 

1) Tanking every mob.

Too many DPS whine and moan that they are taking damage in a majority of games. A tank should be using the health pool of every single player, not just their own, to maintain control over the situation. If a healer can get more throughput by using AoE heals and/or HoTs with a return in excess of the increased damage taken by a DPS against a tank, then surely it would make sense to pick up the majority of the mobs and/or the ones causing the real damage? Apparently not in most people's cases which is why tanks face a lot of abuse.

 

I think the moaning dps are, for the most part, a product of not following kill order + not using dcd because most mobs in a trash pull are not a danger to a dps that does, assuming there's a tank that still controls the situation so you're not swarmed by everything in sight if you dare to AoE/dot spread. Then you get a tank that goes to the other extreme, believing his job is to focus the big gold thing only, leaving all the weaklings alone and expecting guard to magically shield the healer from any harm and things become interesting. Or the tank that wonders "who mass taunted?" "I believe it's called 'suppressive fire'" .

 

When it comes to online games, very few are built to make tanking any easier or more difficult than the others so the rarity of tanks will usually come down to two things: 1) how cool it is to be something else, and 2) how much abuse they suffer from the community. In Swtor, tanks use the same weapons, have the same flashy moves as DPS so it's fair to say the effect of number 1 is minor, so if finding tanks in Swtor is difficult it is more likely down to point 2, the abuse they suffer. So try to remember giving tanks abuse isn't necessary, unless they are being rude people. And even then, just ignore them and move on.

 

Well there's also this thing where you keep hearing how dps is the easier role (not really) so better for a new player/player new to a certain content, how leveling as a tank is slower (not true), how a tank will be expected to know everything and "be the leader" (somewhat true but because people expectations are simpy unreasonable sometimes). Many myths or exaggerations that put off people. On the abuse front I'd say healers generally have it worse.

[KendraP]

I main tank guardians, and have experience on all three tanking classes. Been playing since pre 2.0.

 

First, the trend to content being less trinity oriented (i.e. solo and tactical (story and vet)) flashpoints means tanks can no longer learn the way i did. That is, by doing the story mode FP. I am not complaining entirely, because due to the declining population, queues started taking forever. That said, the easiest place to learn tanking now is either hard mode flashpoints or story mode operations, both of which used to be considered more experienced content.

 

Second, many of the experienced tanks have basically stopped pugging all that much. I joined a guild circa 3.x and haven't really run solo since. I do still pug occasionally, but rarely will it be both tanks and both healers.

 

Finally, I would hypothesize that people simply don't enjoy tanking as much as dps. That was, after all, the point behind making tactical/solo FP.

[BobbyWilkerson]

Also for the left-handed issue... is it wrong if, as a left-handed I play like any right-handed person ?

I must say that I've always played like that, so it never bothered me one bit. ^^'

What ever feels best for you I prefer the extra room arrow keys give me around my fingers so I don't fumble that much. But many games I'll never play because remapping all the keys seems to be too hard for devs these days

[RudeDog]

God you can't be serious.

 

Why would you class HM FPs and NiM Ops as colours and HM Operations for example not? What are the criteria for that? I bet you can't even explain it. That's why you're dancing around it.

 

Your example makes no sense unless you can explain why HM FPs and NiM ops are classed as colours by you. To me HM FPs and NiM Ops are like comparing blue and black and not red and blue. They are not both in the same colour spectrum.

 

Your reading comprehension is horrible and you are derailing this thread, please stop.

[Storm-Cutter]

There are ( were) several very good tanks in my guilds.

Thing is, a good tank with a good team tends to stay there - Considering all the shenanigans, pain, toxicity and agro that other people in PuGs throw about, mostly directed at tanks, means they tend to play only with people they know and can trust.

 

A lot of the time, a tank's mistakes are very obvious. - Whereas a missed heal, cleanse, or DPs action usually goes by unnoticed.

 

In addition, since PvP tanks tend to gear for DPS, it means the pure damage mitigation tanks are even thinner on the ground, since few people have the stomach for grinding two separate sets of top-rated gear.

 

In short, if you PuG a lot and find a good tank, befriend them, for they are both rare and valuable.

[MagicTerror]

I feel the same way you do kind of, about the challenge of tanking. I've always found it very entertaining but it is challenging. The few tanks that are actually really good at their role often try to end up doing everything the hardest and most complicated way for themselves because they don't trust the rest of the group to learn/adapt or pull their own weight, and in story ops they often usurp whatever help the co-tank can offer to eat a little damage.

 

Sometimes in groups they have to, because very few in the dps community seem to know a reasonable rule for basic Big Boss/small trash pulls: The Tank focuses on the toughest enemy, while the dps gather the weaker ones with their attacks. In MM flashpoints like Mandalorian Raiders, not adhering to this is a problem. The ideal way to deal with the first and last boss is to have the tank take only the main enemy, while the dps EACH take one of the lesser beasts/turrets, rather than focus one and risk the other gaining heal aggro. If the tank's forced to take all three, it's impossible and counterproductive in the first boss, and on Varad/Turrets it risks other members taking a lot of missile and flame aoe in the middle of moving to get a little direct damage into the enemy that needs threat. The ideal way for any boss ensures that responsibilities are split across all non-heal players so no one has to go that above and beyond what is expected of them.

[MandFlurry]

Well there you go. Coming from someone who mains a tank. (I have 6, 3 imp mirrors.)

You need to get in & tank those FP's. Gear you a tank, LEARN how to tank properly, augment, rotation/utilities needed for different fights. Then come back & tell everyone what they need to do to tank "correctly". lol

 

 

 

I never touch every mob in a FP or Ops, irregardless of SM or MM.

For Ops, you have an off tank to help you grab aggro. If one of the tanks are a new player, then that person should be told what to do/how to do it. Very simple.

If it's a FP, I will group taunt, but I don't spam through every mob making sure I hit them before choosing one to take down.

I also do protect the healer, in fact if you don't protect the healer, some will ask for a guard. (It's there to protect them also.) If a DPS is repeatedly stealing aggro from me, then they will get the guard, but that's rare.

In general regards to tanking it's fine to guard a healer first until a first few pulls to see what happens.

 

 

No, it's never been the favored class of either MMO I've played. Tanks & healers are always rare, tank more so. It will stay that way because the class can be more stressing to manage than just DPS.

It also doesn't help new tanks with players with attitudes like you, who think they know it all & bash the new tank, instead of helping them.

 

 

Yes, players like you who think they're the "god of the game" who's "time is more important than a wipe or two".

Get off your high horse mate & help a new player out instead of bashing them.

 

 

 

^True, in most senses. But good tanks still pug when the guild is busy/doesn't need a tank or not on at the time they're playing.

 

Words of wisdom from CptRogue

 

I definitely need to learn better at Tanking more so than healing. I mean i usually Pvp and healing can be very hard especially if no one cares to heal you or Tank/ Guard for you. Everyone targets the healer first rightfully so, if they want to win.

 

Tanking i should probably learn more doing Flashpoints, and i don't want to join a guild, ever, but a good guild could help me learn to tank better at the same time.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm supposed to make as may people or npc's attack me with Mind control abilities and such right?

 

In Pvp i'm always in and out but i do try and take damage more so now, because that is supposed to be my job, but i'm sure i have a lot more to learn.

Edited December 6, 2018 by MandFlurry

[Kamylle]

This response is a little long winded. If you don't to read it, I understand. It's no skin off my back. If you do read it, thank you for the time you used to read my post.

 

As a main tank, all I can speak for is myself. I almost never tank for random group finder. It's not that I can't, I don't want to. There are a lot of issues related to group finder. And the problem lies in with the random players we come across. I say "we" because 95% of time I play with my girlfriend. Who, funnily enough, mains a healer. We have been paired together in dungeons and operations since forever ago in this and other games. So we witness firsthand the experiences of what happens in a random group with random people.

 

As far as guarding the other players, I don't. I tend to guard my healer. And people give me crap for it because they think I want to guard my girlfriend. That is not the case. I guard my healer because there is no cause to guard someone else. The DPS in general group finder tends to be to low. Low enough that they almost never pull off of me. In fact, my healer tends to pull off of me more than the dps does. Now, that does not mean I don't guard anyone at all. As a tank, I watch what is going on with the group. If I see someone starting to or getting close to or successfully pulling off of me, I will guard them. I understand that guarding is not for the damage reduction but for the treat reduction. And that is just for FP. In ops it's a lot more ever-changing on what goes on.

 

A good tank does not need to run around the battle field "touching" every single mob. A good tank uses all of their tools properly to control the battle field from their position. I don't need to run around the place grabbing everything. I, as well as other tanks I have seen/taught, know how to grab everything from one position. We use our skill sets to do it. Now, does this mean we never run around everywhere? Of course not. This is the problem with random group finder and why it becomes hard for good tanks. No one focuses. I place marks on enemies for a reason. I place markers on the floor for a reason. Standing where I place the markers is most likely the best spot. I don't mark things for my health. I mark them so we focus and I can have better control. Things die a lot faster when the group works as a group. But I really can't fault them for not knowing how to group. Look at the direction the game went. It's a single player game with some multiplayer elements. I mean, story mode fp gives you a super god robot that can practically do the whole dungeon by itself while you go and make a sandwich.

 

All three tanking classes and their mirrors also all require their own little finesses to play them. Some people just don't understand this. Tanking is not just about shooting the biggest enemy. It takes practice. Which is why you find the newbs in gf. They want to learn how to tank. But the problem rests with the rest of the group. How can someone who is new to a tank or even a healer, learn how to properly fill their roll when the whole group runs off and pulls everything or skip everything or continuously use those healing nods in the case of the healer who is trying to learn how to heal? They never get the chance. They tend to be lucky when my girlfriend and I are in group with them since we tend to slow down and take it easy. If the third person gets stupid, we kick them and we take our time running through the flashpoint and teach them or give them some tips. This extends to all roles, not just tanking.

 

So yes, good tanks and healers are hard to find in FP. Like some one said in an earlier response, they tend to find a guild and stick with them there or just not bother with the random group finder. And to be honest, I don't blame them at all. People tend to blame them, but never stop to look at how the rest of the group reacts to the new person or how the game has changed in terms of allowing new people to properly fill their roll.

 

As a side note, as I write this, my girlfriend is screaming in the background about those healing nodes. They have essentially replaced the need for a healer in most content. "New healers never have a chance to *********** learn how to heal, which is why they have no clue on how to heal in harder content and how they don't know what half their abilities even do or are."

[Zerileth]

Ew. Where'd you dig up this old thread? So much ugliness. Let it die. Let it die.

[MandFlurry]

This response is a little long winded. If you don't to read it, I understand. It's no skin off my back. If you do read it, thank you for the time you used to read my post.

 

As a main tank, all I can speak for is myself. I almost never tank for random group finder. It's not that I can't, I don't want to. There are a lot of issues related to group finder. And the problem lies in with the random players we come across. I say "we" because 95% of time I play with my girlfriend. Who, funnily enough, mains a healer. We have been paired together in dungeons and operations since forever ago in this and other games. So we witness firsthand the experiences of what happens in a random group with random people.

 

As far as guarding the other players, I don't. I tend to guard my healer. And people give me crap for it because they think I want to guard my girlfriend. That is not the case. I guard my healer because there is no cause to guard someone else. The DPS in general group finder tends to be to low. Low enough that they almost never pull off of me. In fact, my healer tends to pull off of me more than the dps does. Now, that does not mean I don't guard anyone at all. As a tank, I watch what is going on with the group. If I see someone starting to or getting close to or successfully pulling off of me, I will guard them. I understand that guarding is not for the damage reduction but for the treat reduction. And that is just for FP. In ops it's a lot more ever-changing on what goes on.

 

A good tank does not need to run around the battle field "touching" every single mob. A good tank uses all of their tools properly to control the battle field from their position. I don't need to run around the place grabbing everything. I, as well as other tanks I have seen/taught, know how to grab everything from one position. We use our skill sets to do it. Now, does this mean we never run around everywhere? Of course not. This is the problem with random group finder and why it becomes hard for good tanks. No one focuses. I place marks on enemies for a reason. I place markers on the floor for a reason. Standing where I place the markers is most likely the best spot. I don't mark things for my health. I mark them so we focus and I can have better control. Things die a lot faster when the group works as a group. But I really can't fault them for not knowing how to group. Look at the direction the game went. It's a single player game with some multiplayer elements. I mean, story mode fp gives you a super god robot that can practically do the whole dungeon by itself while you go and make a sandwich.

 

All three tanking classes and their mirrors also all require their own little finesses to play them. Some people just don't understand this. Tanking is not just about shooting the biggest enemy. It takes practice. Which is why you find the newbs in gf. They want to learn how to tank. But the problem rests with the rest of the group. How can someone who is new to a tank or even a healer, learn how to properly fill their roll when the whole group runs off and pulls everything or skip everything or continuously use those healing nods in the case of the healer who is trying to learn how to heal? They never get the chance. They tend to be lucky when my girlfriend and I are in group with them since we tend to slow down and take it easy. If the third person gets stupid, we kick them and we take our time running through the flashpoint and teach them or give them some tips. This extends to all roles, not just tanking.

 

So yes, good tanks and healers are hard to find in FP. Like some one said in an earlier response, they tend to find a guild and stick with them there or just not bother with the random group finder. And to be honest, I don't blame them at all. People tend to blame them, but never stop to look at how the rest of the group reacts to the new person or how the game has changed in terms of allowing new people to properly fill their roll.

 

As a side note, as I write this, my girlfriend is screaming in the background about those healing nodes. They have essentially replaced the need for a healer in most content. "New healers never have a chance to *********** learn how to heal, which is why they have no clue on how to heal in harder content and how they don't know what half their abilities even do or are."

 

Even i know that the Tank is Always supposed to Guard the Healer, but i learned that from Pvp and Ops. And the worst things about Group finder is, that you don't know who you'll be grouped with, unless you have friends or guildies with you.

 

I mean a few weeks ago i did a Veteran Fp with a group and left for about 15 seconds, well, in the 15 seconds my group left me fully behind as i had to my father out of the house, and i was left at the starting point where no one had cleared all the enemy NPC's, so i took it that a Shadow had gotten' the 3 clear of them. Anyways, whern i tried to talk with that team, after i couldn't solo all the NPC's. Not 1 person would aknowledge me. So i was thinking what idiots are these people, and obviously we don't need each other, and i left.

 

These people can be toxic.