Shroud of Memory: Unfair?

[IoNonSoEVero]

It doesn't factor into the main story, however, it does have a major effect. HK-55 was a major story companion for everyone in KOTFE until he died. Because they've boxed his revival into this bonus chapter, he can't be brought back for everyone or incorporated into the story as a core character again at this time. That *does* affect everyone, and it's a shame, because he's an entertaining character.

 

Even if they were to retcon that chapter and find a way to write him back into the story for everyone - for instance, a backup memory chip for HK-55 is miraculously discovered somewhere - there would still be people who would be unhappy because others would get to play wth HK-55 again.

 

I just hope BW has learned their lesson in terms of not tying the fate of a major story companion/character into a chapter that is inaccessible to most players.

Edited September 20, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[Transcendent]

Gotta love all the have-nots that think they're lawyers digging for anything... ANYTHING in the wording of advertisements and the ToS agreement and making absolutely silly comparisons to other things to justify getting stuffs again.

 

"Oh, they never said 'we will never make this available again' in the advertisement, which means I should have it."

* They all know what the advertisement said, and they all know they missed the boat, but still won't accept it.

 

I think you're missing something important here. When they announced the subscriber rewards, they didn't do the following;

 

- They didn't announce in advance that there would be a subscriber reward involving a bonus story chapter involving The Shroud, just HK-55. The bonus rewards were not announced that far in advance, so there was absolutely no way for anyone to know what the rewards were going to be aside from an unknown. BioWare were making it up as they went along (or again, just lousy marketing).

- The also didn't announce that the HK themed rewards, would include a bonus story chapter involving The Shroud, something that was a continuation or had a relation to an existing story within the game that is free to anyone who has subscribed at any point in time. Purely that you had to subscribe between Jan 11 - Aug 1 for a chapter with (and i'll quote)

 

Choose to be a continuous Subscriber from January 11 to August 1 and unlock a special bonus chapter where you PLAY AS HK-55, undertaking a special personal mission as the iconic Droid.

 

Don’t miss your chance to unlock this exciting bonus chapter!

 

So it really is a case of bad marketing. If these threads keep popping up, it's caused purely from backlash over an awful marketing team working for BioWare Austin, who quite simply don't know how to do their jobs.

 

That's why we're seeing these threads, not because x y z player is being entitled or anything else, it's because the criteria for obtaining the bonus story chapter simply wasn't announced in advance, and they were not forthcoming about the bonus story chapter and it having any relation to something else aside from a rubbish droid that got killed in KotFE due to plot reasons (which is a whole different kettle of fish about a standard trope being used in the writing side of things).

 

I see lots of players objecting, without actually looking at this properly and seeing this with rose tinted glasses just to further their own argument. I mean you don't even have to take my word for how poor the marketing was on the whole HK themed reward program, use the Wayback machine and take a look at December 2015, literally the only announced rewards was getting HK-55 back and the story chapter for being a continuous subscriber. The marketing team left Feb / Mar / April / May / June / July rewards blank, asking players to take on blind faith that the rewards program was going to be worthwhile, after BioWare had taken a massive dump on players goodwill.

 

Bad marketing is bad marketing. However you want to try to justify it.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Transcendent

[aerockyul]

I'll concede the Security Key CC's and the referral CC's, but surely the Subscriber coins aren't free. How can it be that some people paid $120 for the chapter, and yet some people get "free" CC's for Subscribing? It can't work both ways, and the other free CC's are negligible at best.

 

So either there's some other way to get free CC's, or there really aren't too many free CC's out there at all. A few hundred a month, compared to something that would doubtlessly cost thousands of CC's, were it made available.

 

That's really what most people mean when they say the game is awash in free CC's. Sub 600, key 100, whatever from referrals. Some people have been saving their CC's since launch and have thousands upon thousands of them. Some people do nothing but work that referral link or a select few get referral clicks showered on them from being Influencers. I don't think there is any other legal way to get free CC's, but there are definitely people who have thousands that they didn't actually pay for outside of their sub.

 

You're basically arguing semantics on the sub coins being "free" or not. Regardless, every sub is getting 600 CC every month simply for being a sub. Those are CC that are not being "purchased" separately through CC cards or through the website. Bioware gives them out whether you want them or use them or not.

 

People got the chapter for spending $120 to enjoy the entire game. They did not pay $120 for a chapter, that would have been ludicrous of them and no one would have forked over that much money for a 30-minute chapter with no connection to the main story.

 

But it makes sense to assign that as the value for the chapter if people missed the boat on it but want to get it later. It would simply be outrageous if they gave it away for anything less. The condition was to be subbed during that period of time. If they want to give it out again, the same condition (at the very least) should be applied or they really would tick off even the most mild-mannered of the subs who followed the criteria to get it.

[aerockyul]

The bonus chapter ISN'T a major story line. NOR was there ANY lack of information about it during it's WHOLE window. It was right there on the SWTOR homepage and for a long~ while! Also, no shortage of talk about it in in-game chat, I had seen. Because Johnny doesn't like to read or make the most miniscule effort to stay informed, shouldn't penalize the rest of us. Yeah, I get it: it's the best chapter ever because you can't have it NOW. Rather than just a small side story, albeit your rants and trying to blow it WAY~ out of proportion.

 

Whether you agree with the OP or not, he's hardly ranting or blowing things WAY out of proportion. The ranting is coming more from the other side of the fence...

[BlackSilverRoar]

Gotta love all the have-nots that think they're lawyers digging for anything... ANYTHING in the wording of advertisements and the ToS agreement and making absolutely silly comparisons to other things to justify getting stuffs again.

 

"Oh, they never said 'we will never make this available again' in the advertisement, which means I should have it."

* They all know what the advertisement said, and they all know they missed the boat, but still won't accept it.

 

"This <item> was in the game 4 years ago and it came back."

* An existing mount that was removed and brought back is not the same thing as a time-limited promotion to subscribe.

 

Really ridiculous and desperate grasping at straws. I wish they'd just delete these threads as soon as they pop up.

^pretty much sums it up.

[CyberDirectorFre]

The bonus chapter ISN'T a major story line.

 

Not the bonus chapter itself, no, but the Shroud storyline is (and the bonus chapter wraps that up). It's not a main storyline, but as far as side stories go, it's about as major as they come. Not only is there a long quest chain involved with it (the entirety of the Macrobinocular storyline), it comes up a few times in the post-basegame Agent's storyline. The amount of time that you have to put into it makes it the longest side storyline that I can think of (along with the Seeker Droid stuff, which is about the same length). It's pretty big.

 

NOR was there ANY lack of information about it during it's WHOLE window. It was right there on the SWTOR homepage and for a long~ while! Also, no shortage of talk about it in in-game chat, I had seen.

 

I'm not the only person in this thread to say that there was never any information that the bonus chapter involved the Shroud before the cut off point that you had to be subscribed. You're the only person I recall that says otherwise. Is everyone else wrong?

 

Because Johnny doesn't like to read or make the most miniscule effort to stay informed, shouldn't penalize the rest of us.

 

There simply wasn't any way to be informed. You must be right, though; many, many people were simply ignorant fools, who don't like to read. Yep. Anyone new to the game? Just someone who doesn't like to read, someone who can't bother staying informed, idiots, all of them.

 

Also, what's with this "Johnny" thing? This thread is literally the first time I've ever seen anyone referring to someone as a hypothetical person named Johnny, and you're the second to do it. It's a little bizarre, honestly. "Because someone doesn't like to read", and "Because you don't like to read" both make a lot more sense. Speaking about someone as a hypothetical person, in the third person, is utterly strange.

 

Yeah, I get it: it's the best chapter ever because you can't have it NOW.

 

That has nothing to do with it. I consider the ending of any story to be equally important as I find this chapter. Whether or not I have access to it is irrelevant.

 

Rather than just a small side story, albeit your rants and trying to blow it WAY~ out of proportion.

 

I hardly think I'm ranting, nor am I blowing anything out of proportion. Is it that strange of an opinion to hold, that locking the end of a story in a subscription bonus is unfair? More so considering there was no warning that it would be. More unfair to new players, too.

[Paulsutherland]

They could always bring it back for everyone else - might even attract a few players back to the game. Edited September 20, 2017 by Paulsutherland

[YlliyaXor]

Honestly the worst part is that people can still start the Shroud quest,,they removed the Makeb dailies, made the Ilum and Belsavis dailies a one time only quest, they could just delete this quest from the game and end any complaints from new players.

 

The logical solution would be to make a proper ending but we all know that will never happen.

 

Also why do all accounts show the Shroud of Memory chapter in the Ui? Accounts that aren't eligible shouldn't have it in their UI.

[orangenee]

Honestly the worst part is that people can still start the Shroud quest,,they removed the Makeb dailies, made the Ilum and Belsavis dailies a one time only quest, they could just delete this quest from the game and end any complaints from new players.

 

The logical solution would be to make a proper ending but we all know that will never happen.

 

Also why do all accounts show the Shroud of Memory chapter in the Ui? Accounts that aren't eligible shouldn't have it in their UI.

 

This. Which my badself has suggested many times already would kill the thing dead.

 

Nobody runs around with HK-55 anyway so nobody would think anything is up. Does anybody mention Shae Vizla and that other guy? Nope, because they were a little more subtle.

Edited September 20, 2017 by orangenee

[SteveTheCynic]

Full stop. It isn't. It is Bioware's sole decision to make every subscriber reward about HK-55.

If the players had said something else, it would have been that other thing, and we'd be arguing/complaining about that instead of HK-55. But the fact that it is *HK-55* rather than something else is *our* fault.

 

(Also, if the players on the stream had, as they did, said "HK-55", and they'd done something else, how do you think that would have gone over? Not well, I think.)

[Threjyan]

i think everybody should have acess to the chapter.

 

i was sub for the whole period and i got acess to it, and i think its a very good chapter to be locked out for new players, or people that didnt qualify back then

 

it was released when, last year?2 years? i think enough time has passed to release it to everybody.

 

the only thing its the acess to it - to be fair, i would say: give the same conditions that were presented to subs back then - sub for x amount of time to get acess to it.

 

other then that i have no problems in people having acess to it.

 

ps: prolly it will become like an section x thingie - people can buy it directly from cartel market.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Threjyan

[orangenee]

Just to clarify, I believe "Johnny" is akin to John Doe/Jane Doe. Just a generic name in lieu of a proper one where ID can't be found.

 

Johnny is just a bit more "street".

[DeVanagloris]

Actually, not true.

 

You have to expand your thinking and analysis a bit.

 

As has been pointed out by multiple people in this thread, and every other "I want xyz subscriber perk" threads ---> it is used as a marketing incentive to keep more players subscribed during the doldrum months between expacs. That generates more revenue.

 

It is precisely the exclusivity statements that maximize players on the edge of unsubbing to remain subbed. REVENUE otherwise lost.

 

As soon as you undercut the exclusivity statement.... players will never believe them again nor sub to get an incentive.. they will just wait it out and complain later and demand it be made available. That harms the studios bottom line, and as a result indirectly harms the player base who rely on the studio to keep the game moving forward. It also harms shareholders, and frankly I'm not sure they could get past their outside auditors if they were earning revenue from claims that they reversed themselves on later on.... that is likely to get a lot of scrutiny from outside auditors in this Sarbanes-Oxley era of financial accountability.

While i get what you are saying, and probably you are right, one could argue that they failed to deliver so many tines before and they broke so many promises or outright lied to us so many times, that breaking one more wont have any effect on the game.

 

Let's be clear, the toxicity, frustration and dissapointment runs rampant, in the forums, the ingame chat or even external sites such as Dulfy. This is the result of the dev team failing real hard, several times and on several aspects of the game. If we factor everything in, i'd say making this chapter available will make more people happy than not. And im sure a good bunch of us would prefer this chapter instead of another 'Umbara'.

Edited September 20, 2017 by DeVanagloris

[Adrian_T]

Just to clarify, I believe "Johnny" is akin to John Doe/Jane Doe. Just a generic name in lieu of a proper one where ID can't be found.

 

Johnny is just a bit more "street".

 

I think it's intended to cast the anti-exclusivity side as entitled children throwing a tantrum, as in "Little Johnny".

[masterceil]

To be honest, I kind of think they should re-run the same promotion. We're in the midst of another content drought right now, and obviously this chapter has a lot of fans. I wouldn't be opposed to them:

• Announcing during 6 October Cantina that a new expansion is set to drop next summer
  
• Promising to finish Gods from the Machine and wrapping up the post-KotET storyline in the meantime
  
• Requiring players to be continuously subscribed from 1 November to 1 May to unlock "Shroud of Memory" - unlocking HK-55 and Z0-0M and wrapping up the Shroud storyline in the process
  
• Giving the original qualifying accounts who currently have the chapter et al six months' worth of CCs or equivalent value (I'd even taken the low end of 30k... or four HCs, or six random Platinum items, or my choice of 2-4 Platinum items or Gold armour sets, etc... Some worthy reward.)

 

Original recipients get more rewards - maybe even better ones if they also stay subbed through the second run - and people get another well advertised shot at the conclusion of the Shroud storyline.

[Transcendent]

AND THEN THIS WAHFEST OF A THREAD WAS DEAD - THE SHROUD WASN'T ADVERTISED, THINK AGAIN AND SIT AND SPIN v

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/972016/game-update-4.7.1-shroud-memory

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20151231225039/www.swtor.com/fallen-empire

 

I'll just leave this here. It wasn't advertised, not until long after eligibility had passed.

 

Anyway.

 

Changing the tone of the discussion for one moment. I paid for the RotHC expansion and SoR expansion, does that also now mean that no other player can have access to those after the fact?

 

Well?

[kodrac]

Changing the tone of the discussion for one moment. I paid for the RotHC expansion and SoR expansion, does that also now mean that no other player can have access to those after the fact?

 

Well?

 

Devils' advocate... The expansions weren't limited time, and I believe they're now considered a bonus for subscribing. But the perks for pre-ordering were limited time and you still can not obtain them, i.e. Hutt holo-trainer.

[TyonYlle]

To be honest, I kind of think they should re-run the same promotion. We're in the midst of another content drought right now, and obviously this chapter has a lot of fans. I wouldn't be opposed to them:

• Announcing during 6 October Cantina that a new expansion is set to drop next summer
  
• Promising to finish Gods from the Machine and wrapping up the post-KotET storyline in the meantime
  
• Requiring players to be continuously subscribed from 1 November to 1 May to unlock "Shroud of Memory" - unlocking HK-55 and Z0-0M and wrapping up the Shroud storyline in the process
  
• Giving the original qualifying accounts who currently have the chapter et al six months' worth of CCs or equivalent value (I'd even taken the low end of 30k... or four HCs, or six random Platinum items, or my choice of 2-4 Platinum items or Gold armour sets, etc... Some worthy reward.)

 

Original recipients get more rewards - maybe even better ones if they also stay subbed through the second run - and people get another well advertised shot at the conclusion of the Shroud storyline.

Quoted for reasonable suggestion

[bdatt]

The chapter (due to being content, not aesthetics) should now be available to everybody, or to nobody (i.e. removed from the game entirely). Much like the Chevin event, or original Rakghoul event, apparently one-time events that cannot be replayed just because you happen to have been around when they were available.

[Paulsutherland]

If they do a new 'Bonus Chapter' for subs maybe they'll release this one for everyone if a new one were to come out?

[Qouivandes]

In third grade Ms [name redacted] made a deal with the entire class. if, by Christmas break we had zero marks on the board we would get something special; but we had to have zero marks starting the next day up until the day just before we left for break. some of the kids in class scoffed at the idea and knocked themselves out of the running within the first week. others simply decided that it was just too much hassle and went about their own business. even others joked that there wasn't anything special and it was just a ploy to keep us behaved.

 

so we make it to Christmas break, all but four of us were out of the running. our special gift was a $15 dollar gift card to Toys R Us and a movie pass at Cinema City 8. Now, today, that doesn't seem like much, but back then it was a lot. Ms [name redacted] could have easily been in the hole for 450 for the cards and 75 for the movie passes. well, you wouldn't believe the storm it created. she had intentions of doing the same every two semesters, but students with one mark had their parents calling and complaining. there were even students in other classes complaining that they didn't have the gift cards because they were good all year and it shouldn't matter that they weren't in the class, too. i couldn't count the number of times i heard, "if i knew it was going to be that ...i would have been good."

 

on topic, its now past the, "it ends a story line" to now, "we didn't know what it was about until after the fact." at one point, i was about to start conceding to encouraging opening the chapter. its just in my nature, i suppose. that was until the, "well they didn't tell us what it was going to be about the shroud." they shoudnt have had to tell you. if you were actually interested you would have ensured that you met the criteria.

 

you know, (generalized version of you) didnt care about the chapter when it was being offered. some of you, sure, may be you weren't even here for the incentive, but some of you were here and most likely (and not all of you...I dont read minds) just blew it off. Howe many posts were there laughing about that stupid robot and how the studio must think they are idiots to keep subbed all that time for, what most likely, is a fluff piece of work. it got even worse when they started with all the HK themed items.

 

a small bit of personal background that was included in the other thread. i spent two weeks in the hospital both in April and in June during that incentive time. I had my wife ensure that the sub was paid because i was genuinely interested in doing the story as a droid. one of my favorite times KotOR II was playing as the droid. anyway, to top it off, literally all of last summer was spent fixing my computer. i had no clue what the story was going to be about and i didnt really care. and the funny part is that i did it for the first time a few weeks ago because, like a *******, i was missreading the quest notes and didnt think i actually could do it until i finished chapter 16. That is an even longer story for another time.

 

point being, 2012-2017 has seen me in the hosptial 6 effin times. On top of that, I work a lot of hours and get limited play time during the week if any at all with the bulk of my time being on the weekends. hell, ive wasted about an hour today just typing this up. Sure, i missed the 3rd anniversary rewards (and you have no idea how much i would like those paintings). Hell, had they not mailed the 1st year anniv gifts i would have missed those, too, as i was in a coma for most of November that year. I didnt even get back home unit a few days before christmas and then my eyesite was so bad i honestly felt bad PvPing because i couldnt see anyone...sigh...anyway, I missed pre-ordering SoR. I missed many things in this game simply because i was unable to get into the game. So if you want to call me a Have so be it, but the fact is that the chapter was an incentive...regardless of the story...and you missed out on it by choice, happenstance, or absence, but you still missed out on it just the same.

 

so, its after lunch, and we just got back and i tossed the idea to some folks at work and their thoughts, outside of laughter, were to open up the bonus chapter, but no HK55 or Zoom companion or the "the guy with the tumors" on his head that folks can pay for. create a second bonus chapter for those who met the criteria originally that will allow us to play as Zoom, but under the guise of the Shroud that takes place just before the events of the now current bonus chapter. maybe how we got HK55. nothing that will have the 3rd graders upset, but reward (yes, i said that word) those that made the effort when so many people where ditching the game to only come back after chapter 16 was released.

 

tl;dr run a cover split pattern with alpha at delta 3 and bravo at delta 1. shogun...you take point. shogun:THERES NO TIME MAN! Symbolite: BOOM!

[BlackSilverRoar]

Just to clarify, I believe "Johnny" is akin to John Doe/Jane Doe. Just a generic name in lieu of a proper one where ID can't be found.

 

Johnny is just a bit more "street".

 

Yeah, that perhaps, and the noobs never read other threads [like this] concerning them: Johnny-come-latelies, and how this WHOLE argument has already LONG~ been debunked and shot out through an airlock. The only thing they're displaying, is their profound ignorance and desperation.

[CrazyCT]

To be honest, I kind of think they should re-run the same promotion. ...snippy snips...

[*]Requiring players to be continuously subscribed from 1 November to 1 May to unlock "Shroud of Memory" - unlocking HK-55 and Z0-0M and wrapping up the Shroud storyline in the process......more snips

 

And what happens when the people come on 2 weeks after that one, and WAH about missing THAT deadline?

[BlackSilverRoar]

Quoted for reasonable suggestion

 

^OMG, IKR. It was WELL advertised. Throughout all the WAH threads about this that have been shot out through an airlock, none of them have tried to skew how well advertised the bonus mission was in order to get their grubby hands on it. For shame; YOU'RE NOT FOOLING ANYBODY. GJ noobs [sarcasm on].

[Transcendent]

if you were actually interested you would have ensured that you met the criteria.

 

In HK-55? Nope. In The Shroud? Yes.

 

I mean it's nice you used paragraphs and even included a bit of backstory to your life, but it isn't relevant aside from adding to your opinion.