Why do companions have to come back as lesser versions?

[CloudCastle]

I've been taking various alts through Yavin, and I'm finding myself feeling very sad because for the first time in many months I got to hear Corso and Quinn giving commentary as I ran around. I have refused to get back the "new" Quinn from Iokath, and this is one of the reasons. I am dreading the time when Corso comes back because my smuggler is my main and I always do content with her. I don't want an inferior Corso back. I want the one I have now. Does that mean I will have to stop playing my main through story once he makes his return?

 

For those who don't know what I am talking about, the "new" returned companions are not the same as the old versions. They are missing features that used to be standard. Such as:

 

1) All their companion chatter as you pass across certain landscape points has been erased.

2) Their mouths no longer move when they talk to you outside of cut scenes (clicking on them or giving them gifts.) They are like freaky zombie ventriloquists now.

3) They no longer comment or gain influence on any vanilla content, even things like bonus series quests. (I get class story and companion quests, but everything else as well? I can still do this content with characters who have completed KOTFE and KOTET, and companions from the terminal still work, so why not the new ones?)

4) For some of them, their customization faces no longer work in cut scenes. (Elara and Quinn.)

 

I know some of these changes will probably never be reverted (letting companions use their old weapons or have their unique skills back.) But others are baffling to me and just seem like cutting corners because someone couldn't be bothered. It's like a brand removing your favorite product from the store, then finally bringing it back, only to do so with a key ingredient now missing.

 

I'm getting so a large part of me is no longer looking forward to companion returns. I don't want inferior versions to replace my current ones. I enjoy my old Scourge, Corso, Quinn, and Vector. I'm thinking I may opt to not exchange them at all. But that means I must also hold back on new story content altogether on my favorite characters. I'm not sure why I should bother slogging through KOTFE and KOTET with yet another character when my main motivation - getting companions back - is starting to wain.

 

Why did you give us lesser versions of our companions and can this be changed?

 

If not, can future companion returns be separated from the story somehow, like their own mini quests, so that players can still get the main story content without being forced to swap these new companions for the old ones?

Edited September 10, 2017 by CloudCastle

[MayhemofChaonus]

Agreed, I liked the commentary companions provided while exploring environments, it added some depth to them, made them feel more real and independent.

[OldVengeance]

I agree. I don't know why some of them came back this way. At the VERY least they should have their mouths moving again. It's not like haven't given us back some companions that do this. The main cast (Lana, Theron, Koth, Senya, Arcann) all move their mouths, and so do the "inhuman" companions, such as Qyzen.

 

Even the ventriloquist companions move their mouths to speak when first summoned, but no other time. I really think they should rectify this in the future. I don't know if it's fixable for the ones that are already back, but why can't they bring back any future companions with proper ambient dialogue?

Edited September 10, 2017 by OldVengeance

[MikeCobalt]

Its exactly cutting corners. They gave the terminal because we wanted the companions back earlier, not what they planned. Any companion from the Terminal is an Inferior (Lesser) version of what the game totted so much originally. After seeing how Malavie and Elara were treated I'm somewhat leery about what they'll do with the rest as they *Filter back in. It really seems they've been *Resisting these reunions for a very long time Despite what so many players have asked for repeatedly.

[Eshvara]

It's probably because they are available for everyone, they changed so much. Some companions say stuff about the planet like you say, and as they are republic or imp only. I guess it interfered somehow.

When you're on taris doing a planet story with Aric on republic but then suddenly to it on imp, would he still comment on Taris and would what he's saying be suitable? (Example)

 

My guess anyway.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Eshvara

[Arlanon]

Their Space Mission commentary is gone too

[Lammia]

It's probably because they are available for everyone, they changed so much. Some companions say stuff about the planet like you say, and as they are republic or imp only. I guess it interfered somehow.

When you're on taris doing a planet story with Aric on republic but then suddenly to it on imp, would he still comment on Taris and would what he's saying be suitable? (Example)

 

My guess anyway.

 

I am not so sure.

 

Take Quinn. When you give him gifts, he has plenty (as they all) reactions, depending on the gift's value. But all but one contain "my lord" in them. So all classes had that modified to one of his replies without it, regardless of the gift's value. He says the same "thank you".

 

The original lines (with "my lord" in them) were kept for Sith warrior (obviously), and to my pleasant surprise, for Sith Inquisitor too!

 

So it is possible to adapt it, instead of making them all silent. They just chose not to.

[grania]

Hi cloudcastle, I'm not surprised to come back from a break and it's still like this but I support it being fixed/changed, regardless. It makes me crazy when I think about it.

[CloudCastle]

It's probably because they are available for everyone, they changed so much. Some companions say stuff about the planet like you say, and as they are republic or imp only. I guess it interfered somehow.

When you're on taris doing a planet story with Aric on republic but then suddenly to it on imp, would he still comment on Taris and would what he's saying be suitable? (Example)

 

My guess anyway.

 

I'm starting to wish they had never gone to such lengths to make companions open to everyone. I don't think I have a single character who is using another class's companion actually. I really just want to get my old ones back. We also have so many new ones now that if you want to make your crew bigger you can. But why would any of my characters want Kaliyo? (for example) I started training up Vette a little bit on my gunslinger because the thought of two Twi'lek gunslingers fighting side by side was cool, but honestly I have just sooo many companions on that character that I have a hard time caring about them all.

 

I would much rather have fewer, full functioning companions than a whole armada of cookie-cutter companions missing old features.

 

I am not so sure.

 

Take Quinn. When you give him gifts, he has plenty (as they all) reactions, depending on the gift's value. But all but one contain "my lord" in them. So all classes had that modified to one of his replies without it, regardless of the gift's value. He says the same "thank you".

 

The original lines (with "my lord" in them) were kept for Sith warrior (obviously), and to my pleasant surprise, for Sith Inquisitor too!

 

So it is possible to adapt it, instead of making them all silent. They just chose not to.

 

I'm guessing that it was much less work to sift through his companion gift lines and than to redo all his landscape comments. However, they could have simply given SW's their perfectly functioning old Quinn back, and removed the problematic comments from any other classes that have him.

 

Hi cloudcastle, I'm not surprised to come back from a break and it's still like this but I support it being fixed/changed, regardless. It makes me crazy when I think about it.

 

Good to see you grania! I'm still here although I'm playing less than I used to. Hoping that Keith will gradually make his way over to our side (story stuff) and work his magic on our issues at some point. KOTFE and KOTET really threw a wrench in things and not for the better, IMO.

[Damask_Rose]

The only characters I've started on KotFE have been either insta-60s or rushed DvLs. Given the state of companions I have zero motivation to take any other characters through.

 

My pet peeve with the new versions of old companions is that many of them (haven't checked which ones) have their armor baked on. So instead of having your companion in his/her skivvies when they aren't wearing armor they are in default armor. Master Ranos is the same. Covert armor doesn't work so you have to give them a full set of armor even if you don't want to or the default armor peeks through.

[CloudCastle]

The only characters I've started on KotFE have been either insta-60s or rushed DvLs. Given the state of companions I have zero motivation to take any other characters through.

 

My pet peeve with the new versions of old companions is that many of them (haven't checked which ones) have their armor baked on. So instead of having your companion in his/her skivvies when they aren't wearing armor they are in default armor. Master Ranos is the same. Covert armor doesn't work so you have to give them a full set of armor even if you don't want to or the default armor peeks through.

 

Wait really? I wonder who this is affecting. I actually have my Master Ranos in a consular outfit that has one bare shoulder and that one shows skin and works fine at least.

 

Here it is. It's this one:

 

Remnant Dreadguard Consular

[Transcendent]

I know some of these changes will probably never be reverted (letting companions use their old weapons or have their unique skills back.)

 

At the very least, both HK-51 and Treek should be reverted to the original versions. Both required effort to obtain, either through a quest chain or through stumping up the CC or credits (at the time it was a lot of credits, pre-inflation).

 

I do miss HK-51 having his assassinate ability, I curse Ben Irving every single time I use HK-51 now. 4.0 in terms of companions was an unmitigated mess.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Transcendent

[Electricdawn]

I must agree. I hate, what BW did to the companions. They're all the same now. I miss Blizz using a rocket launcher! And there's so much more.

[JediAkemi]

I got Kira back from the terminal and she's still her old self. She has her Yavin IV chat at the very least. She and T7 still gain influence from Battle of Ilum and False Emperor (except they're already maxxed so that doesn't matter any more).

 

I wish Sergeant Rusk could still use cannons after KotFE

[CloudCastle]

I got Kira back from the terminal and she's still her old self. She has her Yavin IV chat at the very least. She and T7 still gain influence from Battle of Ilum and False Emperor (except they're already maxxed so that doesn't matter any more).

 

I wish Sergeant Rusk could still use cannons after KotFE

 

Yeah, if you get your companion back from the terminal you are getting your "old" companion back. My Corso and Quinn are from the terminal and they are the same as they always were. Once they appear in the story though, you're in trouble. You can't do the story content without replacing your old companion for the new one.

 

I'd really like a way to avoid this.

[Electricdawn]

Ok, I've got to ask a very stupid question now: What terminal are you guys referring to? I've seen people with old companions that should not be available, and I've always asked myself how they did it. Edited September 10, 2017 by Electricdawn

[Asmodesu]

Ok, I've got to ask a very stupid question now: What terminal are you guys referring to? I've seen people with old companions that should not be available, and I've always asked myself how they did it.

 

In the commander's quarters on Odessan, a room between the smuggler place and military place, there's a holo-terminal thing you can sue to summon non-returned (or killed) companions back. They're the "old/original? version so that they don't mess with their story returns I suppose.

[Jagaimee]

Ok, I've got to ask a very stupid question now: What terminal are you guys referring to? I've seen people with old companions, that should not be available and I've always asked myself, how they did it.

 

In the Alliance headquarters on Odessen, there's a room near Hylo's smuggler den. That's the commander's room, evidently. There's a large terminal with a map of the galaxy floating over it off to the right side within that room. It's not lit up, nor does it light up when you mouse over it, but you can interact with it and retrieve your companions that way.

 

I was going through Yavin IV last night, doing dailies, and my warrior had Vette with her. I was excited to finally hear Vette's comments on the world - I had Quinn last time - and then realized I wouldn't hear anything. Vette was gotten back through the story. Sure enough, I heard nothing. Vette was silent save for battle cries in combat. That was really, really disappointing... I don't understand why they can't just return companions as they are in vanilla, and cut out class/alignment-specific lines for other classes. (For instance, Vette might say "Don't get any twisted ideas in that Sithy head of yours" to Warriors and Inquisitors only, but that line would be absent for everybody else.) Probably it has something to do with coding and how it'd break the whole darn game... *sigh* Disappointing all the same.

[Electricdawn]

Thank you! I'll give that a try.

[Storm-Cutter]

coz it's cheap.

Coming soon to SWTOR: Plain Jane from the planet Vanilla-bland.

 

Apparently it was too hard for special snowflakes to survive without a constant heal companion topping up their hit points, so everyone had to have flexible-role companions.

 

See in the old days there was no-one in game to ask for help, no forums to consult, and the internet hadn't been invented.

 

[phalczen]

Because from a database/computer code perspective they are not the same companion. Musco explained this for the interview he did for corellian run radio episode 192 on Aug 30th. They aren't the same companions from a program perspective hence they don't react the same way. That's probably why their commentary is gone from the on rails space missions, why they don't show back up in your GSF hangar when you get them back through the story, and germane to the OP, why they don't comment on the original planets anymore.

 

There is at least a partial explanation though. Five years had passed, and so the planets have changed too, not just the ones held hostage by Star Fortresses. They may not have the same things to say, the same peanut gallery commentary as before.

 

Regardless, it's not like KOTFE is alone in breaking the immersion. When Sarah's leaves Taris to move up the political scene in Coruscant, and then Imperial Taris events occur and the imps make a big push to force the republic to regret ever trying to restore Taris... none of that is ever accounted for whenever you return even before KOTFE. "Governor" Saresh's hologram is still asking me to "work together" with her on Taris even though she'd become Chancellor, invaded Ziost, and even after I killed her for trying to steal my Alliance.

[OldVengeance]

Their Space Mission commentary is gone too

 

That too. It'd be nice to have them back on my ship.

[JediAkemi]

Yeah, this is a large part of why no more of my alts are going through KotFE.

[Deewe]

Would have needed to include parameters to check whether the companions are originally from the class storyline or granted through the new chapters.

 

So they went the cheap way

[CloudCastle]

Because from a database/computer code perspective they are not the same companion.

 

Yeah, this does seem to be what's going on. But the question remains, why was this necessary, and can it be changed? It's like they went to great effort to make the companions more alike, perhaps so it would be easier to plug them all into the same three roles, and so that every class could have them. In exchange however, we gave up companion uniqueness, not only in their skills, but in their dialogue and other game mechanic functions. I don't mind all my companions being any role. There's some convenience to that for sure. But did it have to come with all these other package deal stuff? Did HK have to lose his assassinate? Lord Scourge his lightning punch? I mean, they kept Holiday on Tharan, which tells me it can be done. Did companions have to lose all their planet dialog stuff? Why did they take away the ability for customizations to work in the latest content and why hasn't that been fixed yet?

 

I get the impression that someone decided that these things weren't important, maybe they even thought they were merely "cosmetic." But these "cosmetic" features were what made the companions come alive. Without these things they seem more and more like robots with companion skins thrown on. It's not the same.

 

If my Corso comes back and doesn't use the customization that I gave him - the one I have been using since 2011 - I'm not going to be happy. I'd rather keep my old Corso, the one who is recognizable to me, who still talks to me sometimes, the one whose mouth actually moves. But that means that in return I have to give up the ability to ever do new story content on that character again. And that character is my main. That's not the kind of decision a player should ever be asked to make.