Theories on the Order & Traitor (Umbara spoilers)

[Dracofish]

Other than the gut-punch a twitchy Warrior might have with being betrayed a 2nd time...I can easily see most other Commanders seeing right through this...and potentially playing along. Theron was so over-the-top hamming things up that it was almost laughable.

 

And the difference between Quinn's betrayal and this "betrayal," is that Quinn was indeed trying to kill the Warrior. This was not a true betrayal. He wasn't trying to kill the Commander at all - it was all an act staged to get him inside the Order (of Zildrog). He had someone listening in and he had to play things up. He's an operative - a good one. And he had to maintain his cover story to get on the inside.

 

All this gasping surprise over a spy doing spy stuff is just...really. C'mon. If you haven't read the book/comics, do so, because they will give much needed insight to Theron's character. This shouldn't have come as a surprise at all. It's what he does. He's well known to take matters into his own hands and go off half-cocked. Did he go about things the right way? Probably not...he probably should have brought the Commander in on the know, but I can also see the argument that there was no guarantee the Commander would be able to be convincing, or would try to talk him out if it. But, again, Theron isn't well known for thinking things through all the way before just leaping to action.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Dracofish

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yeah I just got done recording the flashpoint so I went back and watched this whole part with lots of pausing and he definitely wasn't trying to kill you at the very least. I thought he was aiming at the player character the first time through but after re-watching it it looks to me like he was aiming at Lana. He aims directly at her to start with and there's one shot that goes just past her as she dives in front of the player character (I assume she thought he was going after you). The shots basically track her movement. And yeah he obviously had his blasters set to stun or whatever since it didn't seem to injure her at all.

 

And then yeah he shoots the window out and immediately after shoots right for the ray shielding controls. So it definitely seems like he was trying to help you escape and just bought time to do his little speech. During which he tells you exactly how much time you have to escape.

 

I do think he was aiming for Lana, too. He probably anticipated that her gut instinct would be to protect the Commander, so he made sure she'd be hit. If Lana had been awake during that scene, IMHO she would have simply finished Force choking him, and not given him time to finish any speeches...

 

It's for that reason - and how genuinely shocked and angry Lana is - that I really don't think she's in on whatever plot Theron has hatched. She's certainly been surprised when betrayal has happened before (Senya, Ziost).

[Thepyrethatburns]

Other than the gut-punch a twitchy Warrior might have with being betrayed a 2nd time...I can easily see most other Commanders seeing right through this...and potentially playing along. Theron was so over-the-top hamming things up that it was almost laughable.

 

And the difference between Quinn's betrayal and this "betrayal," is that Quinn was indeed trying to kill the Warrior. This was not a true betrayal. He wasn't trying to kill the Commander at all - it was all an act staged to get him inside the Order (of Zildrog). He had someone listening in and he had to play things up. He's an operative - a good one. And he had to maintain his cover story to get on the inside.

 

All this gasping surprise over a spy doing spy stuff is just...really. C'mon. If you haven't read the book/comics, do so, because they will give much needed insight to Theron's character. This shouldn't have come as a surprise at all. It's what he does. He's well known to take matters into his own hands and go off half-cocked. Did he go about things the right way? Probably not...he probably should have brought the Commander in on the know, but I can also see the argument that there was no guarantee the Commander would be able to be convincing, or would try to talk him out if it. But, again, Theron isn't well known for thinking things through all the way before just leaping to action.

 

I treat this stuff as if my Commanders haven't read Annhilation.

 

Given all the half-*** death traps and overly-dramatic dialogue that people who have been trying to kill my toons have done, this wouldn't actually stand out as acting to my Commanders. "Yup, somebody tried to kill me.....again. For some reason, I'm going to let them go despite having a 50% chance of being able to snap their neck.....again. Now they're taunting me over the radio.....again. *sigh* I guess it's time to find out what this half-baked plot is going to be." Hell, if I had to compare Quinn and Shan's betrayal, I would have been more likely to say Quinn's was the fake one. (Let's see, Quinn confronts you with two droids. Shan locks you in a speeding train where the escape route is off a speeding train into a planet with squads (plural) of soldiers trying to kill you, hostile wildlife, and a big-*** tank while Shan stays out of your reach.)

 

If he's a good operative, he'll know that he's a dead man walking (although, given how crappy the agent story was, "good" is a relative term). Even without the Alliance and it's resources, 50% of commanders have an army of Sith Assassins at their beck and call. The other 50% are able to call up Republic SIS and say "If Shan isn't dead in a week, I'm throwing my support behind the Empire. Make it happen." A good operative finds a way to let a lifeline know that "Yeah, this is all a ruse" . Even if it isn't the Commander, some form of backup that will be able to let the Commander know (time/condition-release messge on a droid for example). Given that the whole "I was right" mail speaks volumes of someone who has their head up their own ***, I imagine that the whole thing is going to be "Malavai Quinn" all over where you aren't allowed to kill/kick him in the end and you have to let him back into the alliance with little to no reasonable justification.

 

Maybe I'll be surprised but I don't see the writers being able to write a plausible way to get a reasonable commander (who doesn't have mystical access to novels/comics) to see the upcoming "I'm cornered so I'll spill the true details of what I've been doing" scene with Theron as anything else but a last-ditch attempt to save his own hide.

[fishpeople]

I think this 'Order' will be an alliance of people our characters have pissed off on their journeys.

[Swingkittie]

This is interesting reading but no one has mentioned the other person out to destroy and take over the galaxy, Revan.

 

Sure, we thought he put his bad side back in the container, but things happen. It doesn't necessarily need to be Revan, but the mask the guy was wearing was "The Mask of Revan", I'm pretty sure of it. Therefore, it must be one of his followers and there must be a really good reason for Theron to be joining "The Order of Revan".

 

This was a great read. A lot of thought was put into the possibilities. However, I also was thinking the revanites or Revan because of how the person was dressed but also this thought occurred to me. When Theron was captured by Revan his implants could have been tampered with. Also he escaped really easy and we never knew how. Plus Revan didn't even seemed shocked that he got free, like he expected it.

[Thepyrethatburns]

That's another of the issues that bothers me with the argument "The Commander should be able to see through this". Presumably, "The Order" is monitoring what's going on in the train compartment which is why Theron went off on his spiel. If the Order can't see through this, why would the Commander be able to?

 

Frankly, that would have made for a much more amusing ending to the flashpoint.

 

Theron gets back to the shuttle and fails to start it. As he is trying to start the shuttle engines, the Order calls the shuttle. "We were watching that and we noticed that, not only did you hesitate and nod towards the commander while Beniko was watching, you shot her with a stun bolt so, instead of a smoking hole in her stomach, she was knocked out for a minute. You then shot out one of the windows giving them an easy escape route while ranting just long enough for Beniko to get up and be physically able to escape.

 

As such, we kinda feel like you're not doing this in good faith so we used the shuttle's Onstar to kill the engines. We'll release the lock when the Commander and/or Lana have the aforementioned smoking hole in their body. So either get to shooting or you better figure out how you're going to talk down a pissed off Sith Lord before she does silly things to your soft parts. And, if we're wrong and it's two pissed-off Sith Lords.....Hell, I'd turn that gun on myself"

 

It just feels like, if we're to believe that the Commander can see this, it's hard to believe that any half-wit who was monitoring this couldn't figure it out themselves especially if they're using it as a loyalty test. (I don't really blame Bioware for this. Star Wars has always dipped into the terrible end of the writing spectrum when it comes to espionage.)

 

In the end, I stand by my interpretation. In the Commander's eyes, Theron is a dead man walking.

[Kryswyn]

If the order has Shan bugged to listen in, it's quite possible they only have audio, and no visual. If they only have audio, it will sound fairly convincing to the Order as they listen.

 

But the Commander got the audio and visual version, and I think there's a lot of Commanders out there that are feeling very confused and blindsided right now. I know my LS Smuggler sure is.

[Dracofish]

I treat this stuff as if my Commanders haven't read Annhilation.

 

Given all the half-*** death traps and overly-dramatic dialogue that people who have been trying to kill my toons have done, this wouldn't actually stand out as acting to my Commanders. "Yup, somebody tried to kill me.....again. For some reason, I'm going to let them go despite having a 50% chance of being able to snap their neck.....again. Now they're taunting me over the radio.....again. *sigh* I guess it's time to find out what this half-baked plot is going to be." Hell, if I had to compare Quinn and Shan's betrayal, I would have been more likely to say Quinn's was the fake one. (Let's see, Quinn confronts you with two droids. Shan locks you in a speeding train where the escape route is off a speeding train into a planet with squads (plural) of soldiers trying to kill you, hostile wildlife, and a big-*** tank while Shan stays out of your reach.)

 

If he's a good operative, he'll know that he's a dead man walking (although, given how crappy the agent story was, "good" is a relative term). Even without the Alliance and it's resources, 50% of commanders have an army of Sith Assassins at their beck and call. The other 50% are able to call up Republic SIS and say "If Shan isn't dead in a week, I'm throwing my support behind the Empire. Make it happen." A good operative finds a way to let a lifeline know that "Yeah, this is all a ruse" . Even if it isn't the Commander, some form of backup that will be able to let the Commander know (time/condition-release messge on a droid for example). Given that the whole "I was right" mail speaks volumes of someone who has their head up their own ***, I imagine that the whole thing is going to be "Malavai Quinn" all over where you aren't allowed to kill/kick him in the end and you have to let him back into the alliance with little to no reasonable justification.

 

Maybe I'll be surprised but I don't see the writers being able to write a plausible way to get a reasonable commander (who doesn't have mystical access to novels/comics) to see the upcoming "I'm cornered so I'll spill the true details of what I've been doing" scene with Theron as anything else but a last-ditch attempt to save his own hide.

 

The Commander may not have access to 'Annihilation' and 'The Lost Suns,' but he/she has known Theron for years at this point (not counting 5 years in carbonite, I'd add up like 2 prior and 3ish after, so maybe a total of 5ish). I would hope there would be at least a little knowledge as to what sort of man is sleeping with him/her and/or is one of his/her top confidantes.

 

Granted, my one main Sith is a Darth Nox, so she doesn't have a prior betrayal under her belt (not counting Zash). But, after an initial broken-hearted reaction, I think the wheels would start turning and she'd start to put two and two together. She was able to forgive Arcann, after all, and that guy had tried to outright kill her for years (and now apparently has one hella crush if his letters are any judge). Theron better watch his back while he's away, because Arcann's just been waiting for his chance!

[Dracofish]

That's another of the issues that bothers me with the argument "The Commander should be able to see through this". Presumably, "The Order" is monitoring what's going on in the train compartment which is why Theron went off on his spiel. If the Order can't see through this, why would the Commander be able to?

 

Frankly, that would have made for a much more amusing ending to the flashpoint.

 

Theron gets back to the shuttle and fails to start it. As he is trying to start the shuttle engines, the Order calls the shuttle. "We were watching that and we noticed that, not only did you hesitate and nod towards the commander while Beniko was watching, you shot her with a stun bolt so, instead of a smoking hole in her stomach, she was knocked out for a minute. You then shot out one of the windows giving them an easy escape route while ranting just long enough for Beniko to get up and be physically able to escape.

 

As such, we kinda feel like you're not doing this in good faith so we used the shuttle's Onstar to kill the engines. We'll release the lock when the Commander and/or Lana have the aforementioned smoking hole in their body. So either get to shooting or you better figure out how you're going to talk down a pissed off Sith Lord before she does silly things to your soft parts. And, if we're wrong and it's two pissed-off Sith Lords.....Hell, I'd turn that gun on myself"

 

It just feels like, if we're to believe that the Commander can see this, it's hard to believe that any half-wit who was monitoring this couldn't figure it out themselves especially if they're using it as a loyalty test. (I don't really blame Bioware for this. Star Wars has always dipped into the terrible end of the writing spectrum when it comes to espionage.)

 

In the end, I stand by my interpretation. In the Commander's eyes, Theron is a dead man walking.

 

This would all make perfect sense if the peepers were getting both audio and video, but I think we're assuming here that they only got audio.

 

Theron was doing and saying two completely different things, so I would say he knew he could be convincing to the Order of Creepy Mask People over audio, while hopefully giving the Commander enough meat to bite on that all was not as it seems.

[light_senshi]

Theron specifically refers to "The Order" on Ziost when talking to Saresh.

[Dracofish]

Theron specifically refers to "The Order" on Ziost when talking to Saresh.

 

That "Order" is the Jedi Order. There are many "Orders" in the game, and unfortunately it can be tough to keep them all straight.

 

We know -

The Jedi Order

The Order of Revan

The Order of Zildrog

 

I think in the case of Umbara and the Uprisings (that Theron is trying to infiltrate), we're looking at the Order of Zildrog.

[krakadyla]

I think this 'Order' will be an alliance of people our characters have pissed off on their journeys.

 

That would be awesome. Alliance Commander vs Hutt Cartel, Czerka Corp, Hoth pirates and House Rist! Although it's probably just cult of Zildrog or something. Would be not so bad -- they were established before and it's better than "SUDDENLY, the mysterious Order out of NOWHERE!" -- if only they weren't established as Scorpio's schutta. And for, e.g., the part-Colicoid, part-construct by way of ancient Rakatan machine, part-retirement community for cranky old Sith ghosts abomination of a Commander to be protected from Scorpio's little schutta is...insulting.

[Thepyrethatburns]

The Commander may not have access to 'Annihilation' and 'The Lost Suns,' but he/she has known Theron for years at this point (not counting 5 years in carbonite, I'd add up like 2 prior and 3ish after, so maybe a total of 5ish). I would hope there would be at least a little knowledge as to what sort of man is sleeping with him/her and/or is one of his/her top confidantes.

 

Granted, my one main Sith is a Darth Nox, so she doesn't have a prior betrayal under her belt (not counting Zash). But, after an initial broken-hearted reaction, I think the wheels would start turning and she'd start to put two and two together. She was able to forgive Arcann, after all, and that guy had tried to outright kill her for years (and now apparently has one hella crush if his letters are any judge). Theron better watch his back while he's away, because Arcann's just been waiting for his chance!

 

That seems like a lot. I kinda saw the stuff before as maybe a year and the stuff afterwards as a year and a half but, regardless, you're right. It's been a few years. Still, he/she evidently didn't see this coming so I imagine that they'd be questioning how much they ever really knew of Theron. As my SW said in her "He was a good ally and a good friend" reply, she is heartbroken as well and, given how soon she made that announcement after the Crisis, she's also processing that. (Unlike my Inquisitor, she's around a Dark 2. Not someone to betray but not a moustache-twirling Villain) I will grant you that it is possible that Bioware will write a convincing scenario where a character will be given a reasonable scenario to forgive and to rebuild trust. My SW brought Malavai back into her camp after all with nothing but a warning not to do it a second time. However, Malavai had the post-class story event and 5 years of demonstrated loyalty along with her having years to cool down (no pun intended) over what happened.

 

I don't see Bioware giving Theron that much time and evidence to be able to convince the Commander that he was not really betraying her after all.

 

This would all make perfect sense if the peepers were getting both audio and video, but I think we're assuming here that they only got audio. [/Quote]

 

Even with only audio (which seems really unlikely when the whole thing is a loyalty test), it wouldn't be that hard to piece together that Lana got shot yet was perfectly fine a moment later. This is to say nothing of any after-action reports, reports from Umbaran soldiers screaming about the two homicidal Sith Lords sweeping through their troops. Also, if we are to presume that Alliance headquarters is bugged so well that Theron couldn't possibly have even hinted to the Commander what was happening, we can presume that, until the base is completely swept, The Order is going to realize that Lana didn't suffer any dehabilitating effects from being shot. (If you include the Romance/Light Side letters, then that wouldn't help either. If the Commander could read them, somebody else would be able to as well.)

 

Even if they were so dumb that they couldn't piece it together, that still doesn't really negate my point. A traitor who isn't getting results isn't somebody you take into the organization. They're an expendable pawn until they get results. If they die, who cares? Your organization isn't actually losing a member, just an applicant. An applicant who evidently can't get the job done. As such, the "Shuttle Onstar" scenario still applies. Until Theron is getting results that result in targets being eliminated, there's no reason that they would take him into an organization even if there wasn't any suspicion on the part of the Order.

 

I suppose all this is part of the problem with doing Plot Twists.

 

That "Order" is the Jedi Order. There are many "Orders" in the game, and unfortunately it can be tough to keep them all straight.

 

We know -

The Jedi Order

The Order of Revan

The Order of Zildrog

 

I think in the case of Umbara and the Uprisings (that Theron is trying to infiltrate), we're looking at the Order of Zildrog.

 

Actually, they're all secretly part of The First Order from Episode VII.

 

PLOT TWIST!!!

[Dracofish]

That seems like a lot. I kinda saw the stuff before as maybe a year and the stuff afterwards as a year and a half but, regardless, you're right. It's been a few years. Still, he/she evidently didn't see this coming so I imagine that they'd be questioning how much they ever really knew of Theron. As my SW said in her "He was a good ally and a good friend" reply, she is heartbroken as well and, given how soon she made that announcement after the Crisis, she's also processing that. (Unlike my Inquisitor, she's around a Dark 2. Not someone to betray but not a moustache-twirling Villain) I will grant you that it is possible that Bioware will write a convincing scenario where a character will be given a reasonable scenario to forgive and to rebuild trust. My SW brought Malavai back into her camp after all with nothing but a warning not to do it a second time. However, Malavai had the post-class story event and 5 years of demonstrated loyalty along with her having years to cool down (no pun intended) over what happened.

 

I don't see Bioware giving Theron that much time and evidence to be able to convince the Commander that he was not really betraying her after all.

 

 

I think it all depends on the type of character you're playing. My Nox is Dark 1 and she's pretty sneaky. She got heavily involved with Sith politics when she became a Dark Lord and I think she has the capacity to piece something like that together and forgive, especially given her background and how close she grew to Theron over the years. He helped her reconcile her past as a slave with her current position as one of the most powerful women in the galaxy (and as the Commander, THE most powerful woman in the galaxy). She helped him, and is still trying to help him, get over his fear of abandonment. She fell in love with an operative, a good one...one who had already killed two other members of the Dark Council (ironic). She's accepted his past and that he's kept things from her, because that's who he is. She saw how he operates first-hand on Ziost (jumping in head-first), so once she gets over the initial shock, I think she might be pretty pragmatic about it in a "wait and see" sort of deal. Giving him the benefit of the doubt at first. That's not to say that she's not going to be pissed at him. But she'll understand why he did it. Only time will tell when BioWare drops the next update.

 

Probably too much detail, haha, but my Nox has a huge backstory (she's the star of my fanfic). Also, I've always envisioned Theron as a slightly darker, more rough around the edges character than I think a lot of people tend to. Trust issues, fear of abandonment, possible codependent tendencies...likes his whiskey a little more than the next guy...loner...never had much in the way of relationships, including friendships...works better alone...puts his job before his own personal health...not to mention when he finds that special person, he falls hard. Like I'd say almost to the point of being unhealthy hard. And if he's learned that that person could be in danger? Right off the deep-end. Yeah.

 

 

Even with only audio (which seems really unlikely when the whole thing is a loyalty test), it wouldn't be that hard to piece together that Lana got shot yet was perfectly fine a moment later. This is to say nothing of any after-action reports, reports from Umbaran soldiers screaming about the two homicidal Sith Lords sweeping through their troops. Also, if we are to presume that Alliance headquarters is bugged so well that Theron couldn't possibly have even hinted to the Commander what was happening, we can presume that, until the base is completely swept, The Order is going to realize that Lana didn't suffer any dehabilitating effects from being shot. (If you include the Romance/Light Side letters, then that wouldn't help either. If the Commander could read them, somebody else would be able to as well.)

 

Even if they were so dumb that they couldn't piece it together, that still doesn't really negate my point. A traitor who isn't getting results isn't somebody you take into the organization. They're an expendable pawn until they get results. If they die, who cares? Your organization isn't actually losing a member, just an applicant. An applicant who evidently can't get the job done. As such, the "Shuttle Onstar" scenario still applies. Until Theron is getting results that result in targets being eliminated, there's no reason that they would take him into an organization even if there wasn't any suspicion on the part of the Order.

 

My assumption was that they didn't have the base bugged, that they were listening in through Theron's implants, and Lana didn't get up until he had already walked away.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Dracofish

[vadess]

If your theory is correct, then he deserves a promotion when this thing ends.

 

A promotion... a wedding ring....

 

I just hope they don't expect us to wait another 6 months for 5.5. I can already sense the waves of Theron fans preparing for battle if this turned traitor scenario is legit.

 

I think that ship has sailed... Just a matter of how many people will join our ranks before the end.

[TikkyLightmaker]

That "Order" is the Jedi Order. There are many "Orders" in the game, and unfortunately it can be tough to keep them all straight.

 

We know -

The Jedi Order

The Order of Revan

The Order of Zildrog

 

I think in the case of Umbara and the Uprisings (that Theron is trying to infiltrate), we're looking at the Order of Zildrog.

 

It's actually Heralds of Zildrog. But i still think you're right. That person at the end just gives me that vibe. They changed their name, maybe? Or maybe some of us are putting too much emphasis on the term "The Order" and it's just "the order" (as in: the order of The Heralds of Zildrog).

 

I'm probably just overthinking things. Again.

[JamaicanCastle]

I had a thought on Theron's motivations while reading this thread: what if he's sincere about what he says, but still wants to be on your side, or is unsure of his loyalties?

 

Think about it. One of the things he emphasizes is how he feels burned by all the groups he's joined in the past hoping to do good: the Jedi, the Republic, the Alliance. It doesn't seem likely that he'd go pin all his hopes on this new "order" no matter who they profess to be. He's older and wiser now. He'll help them, but he'll also string them along and prepare to cut them loose if they're a problem.

 

Add to that the extremely dramatic way he makes his point, and the fact that (if you ask him) he admits he considered just talking to you about his concerns but was worried he wouldn't get anywhere - maybe this is his way of forcing the issue? He's giving you the opportunity to prove that you're better than he thinks. If you do that, he's in a position to help you take down the order - and if that means his life in retribution, at least it was well spent. If you prove that, in extremis, you don't uphold the morals Theron's looking for, he helps break your Alliance down with a whole heart.

[vadess]

Interesting Quotes from the Uprisings

Hmmmm... Interesting words Theron says to the Commander during the "Divided We Fall" Uprising:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIxv9yYUQAAsT45.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIxv9yOUMAA6AUP.jpg

 

Reading that... I guess Theron's betrayal isn't 100% out of left field.

 

From the Landing Party

I surrender to Tyth? So is Tyth also the god of death? Interesting to read more about Tyth's lore in terms of his place in Zakuulan Mythology: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIx2IVGUEAEamza.jpg

 

A new star fortress? Why and where would the Order build a new Star Fortress- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIx2OuFVYAIhfn9.jpg

Edited September 3, 2017 by vadess
Edit: MOre screenshots

[kukumburr]

Interesting Quotes from the Uprisings

Hmmmm... Interesting words Theron says to the Commander during the "Divided We Fall" Uprising:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIxv9yYUQAAsT45.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIxv9yOUMAA6AUP.jpg

 

Reading that... I guess Theron's betrayal isn't 100% out of left field.

 

From the Landing Party

I surrender to Tyth? So is Tyth also the god of death? Interesting to read more about Tyth's lore in terms of his place in Zakuulan Mythology: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIx2IVGUEAEamza.jpg

 

A new star fortress? Why and where would the Order build a new Star Fortress- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIx2OuFVYAIhfn9.jpg

 

 

Some of the dialogue in the uprisings does apparently change with whether you're light/dark (or maybe it's tied directly to the become empress/be peacekeeper choice I'm not sure). That first thing Theron says about being ruthless doesn't happen for me on my lightside character. In fact he doesn't say anything at all after killing the boss, but if you look at the dialogue trees on torcommunity it looks like he's supposed to say "Appreciate you taking out Kallin and those rogue security agents, Commander. I consider it a personal favor. This one hit close to home." instead of the line about you sometimes being ruthless.

 

But yeah it's interesting to see how little he seems to care for the Republic now. Although I'm not sure how involved he was with the uprisings (if at all). He did say on Umbara he started working against the Alliance right after you defeated Valkorion, which means he could have been part of organizing them. Maybe doing slicing for them. In that case I'm not sure how much you can trust anything he says since he may already be putting on a performance.

 

And actually I just noticed the dialogue from Lana in Landing Party is also different if you're lightside/peacekeeper. This is what she said for me:

https://i.imgur.com/jOAvF5i.png

https://i.imgur.com/eFCl9v5.png

[Asmodesu]

I think it's tied to light/dark alignment. Solely guess that because my LS V eternal empress thingy person got the light versions from Lana in Landing Party.

[Avatardragon]

I treat this stuff as if my Commanders haven't read Annhilation.

 

Maybe I'll be surprised but I don't see the writers being able to write a plausible way to get a reasonable commander (who doesn't have mystical access to novels/comics) to see the upcoming "I'm cornered so I'll spill the true details of what I've been doing" scene with Theron as anything else but a last-ditch attempt to save his own hide.

 

Koete/Kotfe and Iokath span over a reasonable amount of time. I'd say that is enough time for the Commander to get to know Theron/his exploits and things he has done through the years and know his personality and behaviours. Even if he doesn't tell them specifically, I'm sure there are people with stories about him that would be filtered down. We as the player only know as much as we research, but you can't tell me your character would go that many months/years not actually talking to their companions and getting to know them. That's just my take on it though.

[vadess]

Some of the dialogue in the uprisings does apparently change with whether you're light/dark (or maybe it's tied directly to the become empress/be peacekeeper choice I'm not sure). That first thing Theron says about being ruthless doesn't happen for me on my lightside character. In fact he doesn't say anything at all after killing the boss, but if you look at the dialogue trees on torcommunity it looks like he's supposed to say "Appreciate you taking out Kallin and those rogue security agents, Commander. I consider it a personal favor. This one hit close to home." instead of the line about you sometimes being ruthless.

 

But yeah it's interesting to see how little he seems to care for the Republic now. Although I'm not sure how involved he was with the uprisings (if at all). He did say on Umbara he started working against the Alliance right after you defeated Valkorion, which means he could have been part of organizing them. Maybe doing slicing for them. In that case I'm not sure how much you can trust anything he says since he may already be putting on a performance.

 

And actually I just noticed the dialogue from Lana in Landing Party is also different if you're lightside/peacekeeper. This is what she said for me:

https://i.imgur.com/jOAvF5i.png

https://i.imgur.com/eFCl9v5.png

 

Hmmm... That means soemone in my group was Emperor, because my main picked peace keeper.

[Kataret]

A lot of people originally hoped that the traitor would actually be different depending upon player choices/affiliation. That obviously didn't happen, but BioWare could still be going down another path where our choices mattered. What if this widely speculated "Infiltration" theory is true, but only for Light side characters? Meaning, if you spent enough time in the last two expansions making "evil" decisions (never helping the people of Zakuul; killing your companions; and perhaps most effective, declaring yourself a dictator), then the betrayal would be sincere. Theron sees the Commander as another Arcann and Vaylin and must now join this new faction to depose of our character, who, from Theron's perspective, is the villain of the story. But for Light siders, the infiltration holds true and he has been doing all this to take down the Order from the inside, opening up a very easy way to bring him back into the Alliance for those characters (though only after a punch in the gut ). Edited September 7, 2017 by Kataret

[Asmodesu]

A lot of people originally hoped that the traitor would actually be different depending upon player choices/affiliation. That obviously didn't happen, but BioWare could still be going down another path where our choices mattered. What if this widely speculated "Infiltration" theory is true, but only for Light side characters? Meaning, if you spent enough time in the last two expansions making "evil" decisions (never helping the people of Zakuul; killing your companions; and perhaps most effective, declaring yourself a dictator), then the betrayal would be sincere. Theron sees the Commander as another Arcann and Vaylin and must now join this new faction to depose of our character, who, from Theron's perspective, is the villain of the story. But for Light siders, the infiltration holds true and he has been doing all this to take down the Order from the inside, opening up a very easy way to bring him back into the Alliance for those characters (after a punch in the gut, though ).

 

I like this, then it would make both theories (real betrayal vs infiltrator) make more sense. Since one only does not make sense with certain character choice branches.

[OldVengeance]

That could work. Although it does seem he's still regretful even with a Dark Side Emperor Outlander.