Week by week effect of changes (get your metrics here)

[Gyronamics]

Lets watch some metrics as gathered by you, the players, playing and using Starparse in your PVE content.

 

You can go here: http://ixparse.com/stats/?boss=&metric=Toons

 

And over the last 16 weeks it reports what Starparse, the #1 parsing program used in the game has seen.

 

Hover over the bars and look at the numbers.

 

Ones to focus on are Commandos and Gunslingers at the moment.

 

The most played class is Commando by far, in the last 16 weeks there were up to 17,000 reports a week. But last week it was 6,000.

 

Gunslingers are the second biggest class, much less than Commandos and just ahead of Sentinels, last 16 weeks recorded up to 8,000 reports a week. But last week it was 4,000.

 

Up to 25,000 between those two dropped to 10,000. That's up to 15,000 reports from Commandos and Gunslingers which didn't happen last week.

 

To put that in perspective, Commandos and Gunslingers together make up half the PVE dps reports on Starparse and up to 3/5 of them didn't bother last week.

 

So what's the backstory?

 

Gunslingers got a nerf to two specs as did Commandos whose most popular spec (93%) was crushed to the bottom of dps output with resources made considerably worse.

 

Did those numbers appear on other classes instead?

 

No.

 

The highest recorded report for players on starparse in the last 16 weeks was 84,000, last week it was 50,000.

 

That's more than the 15,000 lost from Commandos and Gunslingers but it could be a knock on effect of half the active PVE dps characters losing a huge chunk of activity resulting in many others not raiding for lack of bodies in the group.

 

Can be more than just that. Maybe they're rerolling, maybe it's apathy kicking in and losing enjoyment or maybe they got off their keyboards and went to enjoy the healthy fresh air for summer.

 

But mostly, for certain, it's the classes being made worse and driving people away from them.

 

Vanguards did get a damage buff, as did DPS Sages, this actually meant nothing to their week by week numbers but it might be a tiny rise hidden by a normal summer drop off.

 

We can keep tracking this over the coming weeks and see if the numbers recover or if they don't.

 

Reasonably safe to say this hurt PVE a lot.

 

Enjoy your metrics.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Gyronamics

[exfell]

Very interesting data and nice to see the follow up. Looks like those two classes are not as badly overrepresented among dps as they used to be. Merc is still a bit but way too soon to tell and there are of course many factors that go into what classes are played in ops. Edited July 23, 2017 by exfell

[masterceil]

As a Data Analyst for a Fortune 20 company, that link gave me a serious data-stiffy

 

The low participation rate last week is bothersome, but I'm hoping that it really is, as mentioned before, due to summer activities or people learning new classes. Hoping that some of that is also from people throwing temporary tantrums in protest of 5.3, and will get back into it. I wish there was more than 16 weeks' data there - I'd be interested in seeing NiM participation levels before and after they took away the per-boss tokens...

 

Also interesting is the lack of love for Explosive Conflict, and how much love Scum and Villainy gets. I'd like to know whether the boss count is relevant (SnV being 75% more rewarding in tokens/mats than EC), or if it's just the fights (mechanics in EC aren't necessarily 'harder' than those in SnV, but they are certainly different from most other operations). I personally love EC, specifically because of those different mechanics. Almost everyone I know hates the operation (mostly due to the difficult grind as they progged it), but now I see that seems to be a universal truth...

 

Before anyone points out the apparent uptick in Assault Specialist as though it accounts for the drop-off in Gunnery, the actual number of contributions from that spec is also on a five-week downward trend - from about 10,016 in Week 25 to 703 in Week 29. More Gunnery Commandos have dropped off than AS Commandos, but both specs really are seeing a reduction in players.

 

Again, very interesting data, and thanks for the link : )

Edited July 23, 2017 by masterceil

[ottffsse]

As a Data Analyst for a Fortune 20 company, that link gave me a serious data-stiffy

 

The low participation rate last week is bothersome, but I'm hoping that it really is, as mentioned before, due to summer activities or people learning new classes. Hoping that some of that is also from people throwing temporary tantrums in protest of 5.3, and will get back into it. I wish there was more than 16 weeks' data there - I'd be interested in seeing NiM participation levels before and after they took away the per-boss tokens...

 

Also interesting is the lack of love for Explosive Conflict, and how much love Scum and Villainy gets. I'd like to know whether the boss count is relevant (SnV being 75% more rewarding in tokens/mats than EC), or if it's just the fights (mechanics in EC aren't necessarily 'harder' than those in SnV, but they are certainly different from most other operations). I personally love EC, specifically because of those different mechanics. Almost everyone I know hates the operation (mostly due to the difficult grind as they progged it), but now I see that seems to be a universal truth...

 

Before anyone points out the apparent uptick in Assault Specialist as though it accounts for the drop-off in Gunnery, the actual number of contributions from that spec is also on a five-week downward trend - from about 10,016 in Week 25 to 703 in Week 29. More Gunnery Commandos have dropped off than AS Commandos, but both specs really are seeing a reduction in players.

 

Again, very interesting data, and thanks for the link : )

 

It will only get worse on serious hm/nim raids as serious #s nerfs will outweigh the very slight/insignificant buffs which has been the trend and I expect to continue under "rebalancing". Quite frankly though NiM ready players are very few in the game because overall PvE content untill the introduction of Vet Mode/MM Story chapters was so easy that it degraded players skill/and did not teach new players how to play their class ie, you let your god comp do everything for you. It got so bad that any new players never learned their classes to even do SM ops consistently as even those became easier-but suddenly there is no "god comp" to do the op for you.

248 gear combined with a few classes (which are now all getting nerfed patch after patch) made the challenging content more accessible to more players,whether this is good or bad I don't judge-this is simply matter of fact. At least it made raids a bit more common.

So yeah, now they will be leaving for greener pastures as gearing alts in 242/248 gear is just a grinding chore that most players cannot be bothered with especially as you have to expect more nerfs to other specs are still to come-they'd actually want to the challenging raids and not grind for gear a second or third time.

 

 

And yes SnV is 6 ez mode bosses before Styrak in vet mode. EC has Firebrand+Stormcaller as second boss which is an actual dps check in hm, and one of the hardest in NiM.

[Tsillah]

And yes SnV is 6 ez mode bosses before Styrak in vet mode. EC has Firebrand+Stormcaller as second boss which is an actual dps check in hm, and one of the hardest in NiM.

 

You're not wrong. We had a go at EC HM a couple of nights ago. Granted we're not the top guild or anything like that but I'd say we're a typical average raiding guild that does SM for laughs and cleared almost all bosses in HM (except the last couple in Rav and Revan) and also did a decent amount of NiM raiding.

 

So Firebrand and Stormcaller with DPS in mostly 242-248 gear really couldn't get this boss down. It was kinda late and so we weren't all that sharp but still the difference was very noticeable where in the past we could beat the enrage and suddenly now with better gear we couldn't get close to it.

 

I'm sure the more hardcore guilds can probably manage but I think the group of people who can just got a lot smaller. As a healer I have to say it was very doable, even though it's my sage healer. The only issue really was the DPS numbers.

 

Styrak will be an issue also so we're holding off on that one as well.

 

I have to say that I don't mind there being bosses that are difficult to beat and really can take a lot out of your group but I have to wonder if this was the right decision overall. Time will tell I guess.

 

In the end there is a minimum amount of damage you need to do and further away that is from what a hardcore guild can do the more leeway there is for less hardcore raiders. Closing that gap could challenge people or it could make them avoid certain ops or boss fights. Wondering what BW is going for here.

[Gyronamics]

Yes it increases difficulty with such a large section of PVE dps losing output.

 

What I see as being poisonous about it is that they are making actually ancient content less attractive while still being exceptionally slow to release new PVE content.

 

The metrics we have for the recorded time period say a huge number of characters for the crippled classes vanished from raiding of late, morale loss due to degraded performance is what my money is on and there is nothing with even an illusion of positivity to be seen in the future.

 

Where in all this is the incentive to get good and recruit to beat up old bosses YET AGAIN.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Gyronamics

[merovejec]

Thank you HW!!

 

Great to see such facts! I never realized we can push on the Devs this way! If possible keep us updated, its good material for discussion here!

 

As you said there can be A LOT of other reasons for those numbers, but im definitely sure that it has a lot to do with the changes.

[Khiriath]

As a Data Analyst for a Fortune 20 company, that link gave me a serious data-stiffy

 

The low participation rate last week is bothersome, but I'm hoping that it really is, as mentioned before, due to summer activities or people learning new classes. Hoping that some of that is also from people throwing temporary tantrums in protest of 5.3, and will get back into it. I wish there was more than 16 weeks' data there - I'd be interested in seeing NiM participation levels before and after they took away the per-boss tokens...

 

Also interesting is the lack of love for Explosive Conflict, and how much love Scum and Villainy gets. I'd like to know whether the boss count is relevant (SnV being 75% more rewarding in tokens/mats than EC), or if it's just the fights (mechanics in EC aren't necessarily 'harder' than those in SnV, but they are certainly different from most other operations). I personally love EC, specifically because of those different mechanics. Almost everyone I know hates the operation (mostly due to the difficult grind as they progged it), but now I see that seems to be a universal truth...

 

Before anyone points out the apparent uptick in Assault Specialist as though it accounts for the drop-off in Gunnery, the actual number of contributions from that spec is also on a five-week downward trend - from about 10,016 in Week 25 to 703 in Week 29. More Gunnery Commandos have dropped off than AS Commandos, but both specs really are seeing a reduction in players.

 

Again, very interesting data, and thanks for the link : )

 

Let me give those numbers some more context.

 

Here are the max DPS output(assuming you don't win the RNG lottery with crit but what could be on average expected) of all classes post 5.2. Note it hasn't been adjusted down yet for the various nerfs:

https://torcommunity.com/guides/miscellaneous/class-rankings

 

Here some helpful people have done the math to figure out the DPS checks for every NiM boss:

http://yourcompanion.clanwebsite.com/372356/topic/50-nightmare-checks-jpq

 

Note that say NiM Styrak requires over 9k sustained DPS. That is with the various mechanics that reduce your DPS like the Kell Dragon spin. Even before the nerfs there were several classes that could only get over 9k DPS in full 248 gear and with a perfect rotation devoid of human error on a dummy without limiting mechanics.

 

For those classes to be able to clear content they will realistically need full 248 gear and a very expensive consumable known as Crystal of Nightmare Fury.

 

I would like to point out that the recommended gear for NiM is 236, but let's be honest most classes can't put out the necessary DPS in 236.

 

Starparse gathers its metrics from people using it for raid parses(not solo parases). So we are talking serious raid groups trying to clear content. That drop off in numbers isn't about "tantrums" it's about non-viability. With upcoming balance nerfs I don't think there will be any class that can reliably put out the numbers needed to clear NiM content even in full 248 gear without the use of Crystal of Nightmare Fury, which is an insanely expensive consumable. Even then many classes, probably roughly 1/3 simply will not be viable.

 

So if you are using Starparse in raid mode, and you are it's target audience, you probably won't be back for weeks or months if the reason you left was that your class was nerfed(merc/mando, Sniper/GS for example). The reason being that you have to level something else, and grind all the way back to full 248 gear simply to be viable in HM and NiM content. Me personally I was maining a merc for the prog team I was leading. I've pretty much thrown in the towel for prog raiding this expac. My char is simply not viable, which means wipes, which means really high repair bills. Or I can put the prog team on pause until I can get a replacement(better wait until after 5.4 to make sure the problem won't be repeated). That really isn't much of a solution either. So nope, I'm out until 6.0. Lots more like me.

 

Here is some more data. The top ten Lightening sorcs can potentially put out enough dps that with game mechanics they could still clear NiM Styrak in 248 gear(though I've heard that they were using an exploit):

http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard/sorcerer/lightning/2500000/all/live/1/

 

No one in the madness category can do so, which is really bad:

http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard/sorcerer/madness/2500000/all/live/1/

 

I'm guessing I could go through all the classes listed shallow end of the DPS pool here

https://torcommunity.com/guides/miscellaneous/class-rankings

and find the same result. There may be some 1%ers in their various classes that can hit the necessary numbers. What about the other 99% of paying players though?

 

I write these posts because I want BW to realize that they have a broken system where some classes, some very popular classes, simply are not viable for endgame content and work to fix that.

 

I'm not asking for buffs, or even my own favorite classes, PT and Guardian for those who wonder, to be boosted up to be the highest parsing classes. I simply want them to balance PvE so that all classes are viable for all content at the recommended gear ratings. I shouldn't have to have two tiers above recommended rating to simply be viable in certain content. I certainly shouldn't be able to be 2 tiers above recommended rating and not be viable for certain content.

 

For me the drop rate of tier 4 gear from crates is only part of a bigger problem. That balance in this game simply doesn't exist in any rational form. PvE is a total mess and only gettig worse with the "balancing" nerfs that instead of balancing things only made greater disparities and sunk more classes into the not viable for all content category. PvP is also a mess, so playing that to get 242 and 248 gear is frustrating at best, especiall with the drop rates.

 

Ideally here is what I would like to see happen that I think would be the best for both PvE and PvP:

1) Nerf ops bosses so that they can be realistically cleared by all classes in the recommended gear. Taking into account actual DPS drop offs resulting from mechanics.

 

2) Make unassembled components act like WZ coms did in 4.0. Namely a base number gained for participation, more for a win, and additional ones earned for WZ medals gained. There is no reason that someone who is actually trying and earns 20 medals should get the same amount as the guy who goes AFK in stealth in a corner somewhere. Nevermind when the AFKer says he'll guard objective, but allows it to be captured because he really just wants the WZ to end earlier. Also make them legacy transferrable, just as WZ coms were.

 

3) Actually balance the classes and as much as possible do away with the FOTM class. Make that balance not just about theoretical DPS output but what actually happens in game mechanics.

 

4) Return to the 1.0&2.0 system of abilities having different PvE and PvP characteristics so that PvE and PvP can be balanced separately once again.

 

That is my personal wish list(and recommendations). To be honest even if BW were to do those things, I don't think or expect that they would get it right straight away, but the attempt with necessary tweaks over time to get it right(not ignoring problems for 6+ mos) would make me and I think a lot of other people very happy campers

[Transcendent]

morale loss due to degraded performance is what my money is on

 

I would also point out that simply re-rolling another DPS class that is enjoyable is also a factor. Players like myself simply prefer ranged classes, which have all taken a hit. Equally said, gearing them back up is way too much of a grind with GC.

[merovejec]

Starparse gathers its metrics from people using it for raid parses(not solo parases). So we are talking serious raid groups trying to clear content. That drop off in numbers isn't about "tantrums" it's about non-viability. With upcoming balance nerfs I don't think there will be any class that can reliably put out the numbers needed to clear NiM content even in full 248 gear without the use of Crystal of Nightmare Fury, which is an insanely expensive consumable. Even then many classes, probably roughly 1/3 simply will not be viable.

 

Well they cannot expect us to buy that Crystal in order to raid NiMs! I mean it should have helped casuals do NiMs, not make them vital for it. It was good for sales runs for example.

 

I write these posts because I want BW to realize that they have a broken system where some classes, some very popular classes, simply are not viable for endgame content and work to fix that.

 

I'm not asking for buffs, or even my own favorite classes, PT and Guardian for those who wonder, to be boosted up to be the highest parsing classes. I simply want them to balance PvE so that all classes are viable for all content at the recommended gear ratings. I shouldn't have to have two tiers above recommended rating to simply be viable in certain content. I certainly shouldn't be able to be 2 tiers above recommended rating and not be viable for certain content.

 

The "breaking" of the game and specs is indeed an issue. If you remember what they did with Pyro and Plasmatech back in SoR, they made the spec completely useless and still didnt fix it properly. This happened now with Merc/Mando but with both dps specs.

 

The scaling of the operations has also been terrible overall, while some bosses were easier some were way harder (Raptus 100k attacks). This was a real issue when there was little you could have done but stacked endurance and hoped the healers will keep you topped off for the BIG hit. It kinda works now, but isnt perfect. The operations have been designed for the abilities and gear that was "at their time". In other MMOs you move on and can solo old opses, new ones have new stuff for new abilities and gear levels. We keep on playing the same old stuff so its messed up (not to mention the reflect abilities).

 

 

 

For me the drop rate of tier 4 gear from crates is only part of a bigger problem. That balance in this game simply doesn't exist in any rational form. PvE is a total mess and only gettig worse with the "balancing" nerfs that instead of balancing things only made greater disparities and sunk more classes into the not viable for all content category. PvP is also a mess, so playing that to get 242 and 248 gear is frustrating at best, especiall with the drop rates.

 

I wouldnt go into the gearing issue. For raiders its no problem to gear a person pretty quick by getting him all the 242s and have him do PVP or GSF (thats way better imho). Its fine the way its setup now, well maybe adjust the NiM drops a bit.

[Khiriath]

I wouldnt go into the gearing issue. For raiders its no problem to gear a person pretty quick by getting him all the 242s and have him do PVP or GSF (thats way better imho). Its fine the way its setup now, well maybe adjust the NiM drops a bit.

I agree with you on this mostly. If the balancing was done correctly than 242 gear would be more than adequate and easily enough accessible if a raid group wanted to power gear one of their members. The problem is that the balancing is so messed up that most classes absolutely need full 248 which is still a grind, a serious grind in PvP. Many classes need full 248 and a Crystal of Nightmare Fury, and there are classes that even with full 248 and expensive consumable still simply can't get the output numbers.

 

The gearing issue and GC thing is an issue only because PvE balance is such a shambles. Fix PvE balance and I think the complaints about GC will evaporate. I know mine would.

[merovejec]

I agree with you on this mostly. If the balancing was done correctly than 242 gear would be more than adequate and easily enough accessible if a raid group wanted to power gear one of their members. The problem is that the balancing is so messed up that most classes absolutely need full 248 which is still a grind, a serious grind in PvP. Many classes need full 248 and a Crystal of Nightmare Fury, and there are classes that even with full 248 and expensive consumable still simply can't get the output numbers.

 

The gearing issue and GC thing is an issue only because PvE balance is such a shambles. Fix PvE balance and I think the complaints about GC will evaporate. I know mine would.

 

If u play it smart u can have 1000 components in 1 week and im talking about 3-4 nights only. You need all PvP weeklies and dailies as well as GSF. That way u get 3-4 pieces to 248 per week. Its not totaly fast but its better than the Hammerstation farm.

[Eloi_BG]

Didn't read all but adding a comment. Numbers show a bit how I've been feeling. A month in 5.0 I joined a brand new ops group, that went through a lot of iterations and only stabilized around March or April or something. We progressed slowly as people learned NiM fights, finally killed them and then put them on farm. We aren't close to beating every Apex boss, but had fun progressing through content.

 

Now all this progress is thrown away (I don't mind it for a new expansion, but this isn't the case). A lot of tight DPS checks we beat every time (but were close to enrage/wiping) will become walls we gotta work a lot to get through again (most the group doesn't have time to farm 248 gear, pretty much long in to raid and that's all). I mean we might not be as good as you want NiM players to be, but hell the game has been like this for more than 6 months, and we legit beat the bosses and want to keep doing it (also I never even considered using crystals cause of NiM fury cause why is this even a thing).

 

We lost a lot of DPS in 5.3 (sniper and merc) and heals (sorc) and looks like we'll lose more DPS (operative and mara) in 5.4. This is very frustrating as a group, and this is why "why nerf and not buff" thing doesn't work when your classes have been in the same state for more than 6 months.

 

On a side note, I know it shouldn't, but the lost DPS is making us wipe a lot on Tyth at like 2-4% and taking us a lot more time to kill it that it used to, and it's very frustrating as a new boss came out and we can't play it as much as we should be able to.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Eloi_BG

[TUXs]

Gyro, AMAZING work at perfectly describing the issue...you never cease to amaze me with all the effort you put into your analysis. THANK YOU for all you do. You're the one person I wish these Devs would listen to.

[Thruine]

A few possibilities are they will be buffing the melee classes to offset this loss. I'd be in favor of that (like melee better myself) since it has more going against it than ranged. Not heard of any plans but who knows.

 

Or they will be nerfing the bosses due to inability of making them any tougher than they currently can. Either the mechanics will decrease or health. Again, not heard of any plans.

 

And last, they mean to ensure that content is cleared with the appropriate gear. Gone will be the days of clearing content in starting tiers. Perhaps make the gear grind mandatory as opposed to it just helping a few classes. Maybe create a progression which I rather like in games. Of course, not heard of any plans and gear will need to be addressed.

 

None of which are bad choices as long as one is made. Not sure I see the logic in decreasing players' ability just to make things they were already doing harder. It doesn't bring in players and only drives away those you have. But, who knows. Once all the balance patches planned are finished, we'll probably have more information. So far I would definitely think the dev team is down to bare bones if having to do this over the course of time.

 

I can promise that just making it more difficult just for difficulties sake doesn't make a happy player. That happened in my last game and major reason I left. Hate to see it repeated (like the determination to make PvE and PvP balance as a whole). It does work or improve things.

[Transcendent]

A few possibilities are they will be buffing the melee classes to offset this loss.

 

Good for PvE, bad for PvP.

[Decidion]

...This is very frustrating as a group, and this is why "why nerf and not buff" thing doesn't work when your classes have been in the same state for more than 6 months

 

I've noticed this is BioWare's typical approach, which is very detrimental to the game. They put out class changes without adequate testing and when they do nerf a class, it seems always a significant nerf. Whereas when they "buff" a class, it is with very timid (mostly ineffective) buffs.

 

Ultimately, the problem lies in not spending enough time testing changes before rolling them out. They are using the paying player base as their test bed (a situation that exists in most MMO's, but faaaar more in this game than any other I have seen), and that aggravates people. And then by the time they actually get to the balance levels they want, BOOOM, another expansion and a bunch of unbalanced classes again.

 

As a business owner myself, I can tell you, its not the game, its not the software, its not the limitations in mechanics...its just very poor decision making and allocation of resources by Management. The lack of business common sense by senior BioWare management astounds me (and is probably the reason for the recent spat of departures).

[Gyronamics]

The Sage healer numbers are significant too.

 

From a peak of almost 20,000 healer reports, 10,000 (50%) of those were Sages

 

In the previous week the total was 12,000 and 4800 (40%) Sage healers.

 

Again a large reduction in capability is the primary suspect for not just the loss of players but the loss of % of the whole.

 

Remember this does not mean more players are playing the other healers, they are not, their numbers are down also but there was a larger % loss for Sages.

[TUXs]

The Sage healer numbers are significant too.

 

From a peak of almost 20,000 healer reports, 10,000 (50%) of those were Sages

 

In the previous week the total was 12,000 and 4800 (40%) Sage healers.

 

Again a large reduction in capability is the primary suspect for not just the loss of players but the loss of % of the whole.

 

Remember this does not mean more players are playing the other healers, they are not, their numbers are down also but there was a larger % loss for Sages.

I hope Bioware does something FAST about this...they took the 100% wrong approach to balance.

[analyis]

The metrics are kind. I have never experienced the mass exodus of guildies until this nerf. 90% of our long term players left to another mmo because of this and another 8% left this weekend. What's bothersome is these are all HM/NiM raiders that were playing since beta. I normally defend the devs but this was a huge misstep. I hope the game can recover.

[mhobin]

I hope Bioware does something FAST about this...they took the 100% wrong approach to balance.

 

PVE players are unhappy with the DPS nerfs effecting their content. PvP players are unhappy because all we wanted was utility balances. At least they brought the two communities together....

[dscount]

I hope Bioware does something FAST about this...they took the 100% wrong approach to balance.

 

I agree! I've said over the years many times they have some balance bean counter that is pale white in the back room with a very broken abacus. I'm sticking to my guns on that one. If they are using simulated target dummy statistics to show theory of output then they are doing it wrong.

 

This data confirms my experience with my Sage/Sorc healers. My healing class is now more sluggish, I'm out of force a little quicker and I'm constantly waiting for GCD to cast. My HPS and eHPS is horrible now and folks are asking me to pick up my heals a bit more. (REALLY?)

 

BIGGEST complaint - i don't see ANY BOSS being nerfed or tuned down to address the nerfing across the board of most classes.

 

I'm sorry - but when you game is in the crapper and you have people barely playing it and leave in mass... you need to BEEF up your game to be more fun (Achievable) and less grindy (CXP).

[HuaRya]

Gyro, AMAZING work at perfectly describing the issue...you never cease to amaze me with all the effort you put into your analysis. THANK YOU for all you do. You're the one person I wish these Devs would listen to.

 

Certainly deserves Cartel Coins for his analysis as they probably no longer have paid staffers to track these kinds of metrics.

 

Reminds me of a Poem........

First they came for the F2P'ers, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a F2P'er.

 

Then they came for the Ranked PVP'ers, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Ranked PVP'er.

 

Then they came for the PVE Raiders, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a PVE Raider.

 

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[Eloi_BG]

The actual changes are far from perfect, but the logic behind them is somewhat good (again, talking about pure DPS/HPS output and not defensive and utilities). I don't agree with the 5% gap, and I'm pretty sure I don't agree with the number they are aiming for (too low for PVE). However, if all those changes happened two weeks into 5.0 (like the MM/Engi/AP nerfs in 4.0), it would not have been as bad. You can slightly tweak numbers 6 months into an expansion, but there is nothing small about what happened. You can't remove 1000 DPS on some specs without breaking PVE progression. This is way too late to change numbers this much.

[TUXs]

I agree! I've said over the years many times they have some balance bean counter that is pale white in the back room with a very broken abacus. I'm sticking to my guns on that one. If they are using simulated target dummy statistics to show theory of output then they are doing it wrong.

 

This data confirms my experience with my Sage/Sorc healers. My healing class is now more sluggish, I'm out of force a little quicker and I'm constantly waiting for GCD to cast. My HPS and eHPS is horrible now and folks are asking me to pick up my heals a bit more. (REALLY?)

 

BIGGEST complaint - i don't see ANY BOSS being nerfed or tuned down to address the nerfing across the board of most classes.

 

I'm sorry - but when you game is in the crapper and you have people barely playing it and leave in mass... you need to BEEF up your game to be more fun (Achievable) and less grindy (CXP).

Exactly!!! They've made it more difficult for everyone, without making anything more fun for anyone. Double CXP reminded me of just how much I loath the CXP grind too...the road to 300 is far too long and double CXP needs to be the standard, not the exception.

 

They've taken what little content some of us tried to do (NiM Ops), and reduced the number of players who can do it even more. They have GOT to address this. Limiting NiM Ops to 1% of the players, only on specific classes, is disastrous. The nerf round was too much, no matter what their "metrics" said and despite whatever the hell their goal was...unless their goal was to damage the game further, in which case they succeeded.