Tears Everywhere...did they let classes go too long without balance?

[DocGamer]

I can't help but ask myself if the devs let everyone play too long without balancing classes.

 

Now so many players have committed to their class (God knows how ****** it would be to have to grind up another toon to 300).

 

Now the big nasty nerf hammer comes for your class.

 

Many PvP'ers are complaining about the component grind and many PvE'ers are complaining about having to PVP for the fastest upgrades to 248.

 

Lots of folks are talking about Command crates being full of poo...

 

Did they wait too long....?

 

Is the +- 5% system the right mix, or does this just support FoTM jumpers rolling a melee toon from command 0 to 300?

 

Am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

I personally believe the game is going to shut down here in 5 months if they don't get their **** together and go back to splitting PVP and PVE so both camps have a chance to progress their respective progression path separately... but then again I wear a tinfoil hat before opening the blinds.

 

WhiteKnights/Naysayers/Nerfherders are encouraged to post their point of view here to enlighten us PLEBS.

[Lundorff]

Now so many players have committed to their class (God knows how ****** it would be to have to grind up another toon to 300).

 

As I have said before, getting level 300 is piss easy. It just requires a bit of PVE focus.

 

 

Many PvP'ers are complaining about the component grind and many PvE'ers are complaining about having to PVP for the fastest upgrades to 248.

 

Getting BiS is the real issue.

 

 

I personally believe the game is going to shut down here in 5 months if they don't get their **** together

 

In 5 months? No, definitely not.

 

 

go back to splitting PVP and PVE so both camps have a chance to progress their respective progression path separately...

 

I have asked the directly here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9341173

[Gretzel_Eis]

I personally believe the game is going to shut down here in 5 months if they don't get their **** together and go back to splitting PVP and PVE so both camps have a chance to progress their respective progression path separately... but then again I wear a tinfoil hat before opening the blinds.

 

WhiteKnights/Naysayers/Nerfherders are encouraged to post their point of view here to enlighten us PLEBS.

 

TOR will stay around as long as its the sole Star Wars MMO (and that's the only reason its survived so far). Rift has like some hundreds on at a time and Trion still wastes its money maintaining those servers.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Gretzel_Eis

[Stncold]

I personally believe the game is going to shut down here in 5 months if they don't get their **** together and go back to splitting PVP and PVE so both camps have a chance to progress their respective progression path separately... but then again I wear a tinfoil hat before opening the blinds.

 

WhiteKnights/Naysayers/Nerfherders are encouraged to post their point of view here to enlighten us PLEBS.

 

5 months? It's probably the third or fourth most populated MMO on the market right now. It's not going anywhere soon and like Gretzel said as long as it's the only SW mmo out there right now. There likely won't be another for a long while either since EA has exclusive rights to Star Wars games and they don't seem interested in dealing with MMO's anymore. Not to mention publishers as a whole are starting to stray away from MMO's because all the big money is in mobile.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Stncold

[Glower]

(God knows how ****** it would be to have to grind up another toon to 300).

 

They can sell *ingame* cheap GC catch-up's like Blizzard do in WoW (for example when you reach 30 artifact power you can buy 25 for your alts or when you reach 40 artifact power/i.e. maximum power... you can buy 40 for your alts). But it is way to smart for these stubborn devs.

[Missandei]

I tried to return to the game...

Though PvP is a complete mess nowadays.

Healing is out of control. Even 1 healer can spoil the objective play in regs. 2 healers make nearly all WZ but Huttball stalemates. People running around for 15 minutes not able to kill anything.

In Quesh Huttball when operative/scoundrell makes a roll my game client just losing track of it. Showing his position everywhere but not where it really is. Makes chasing the ball carrier pointless.

 

And the best of all is Mercs.. Ranged(!) DPS(!) calss is not only making top DPS in the game but can easily facetank several opponents at once.

Well i never liked the Mercs myself though i had 2 at lvl 65. Have jumped in this bandwagon myself and lol.. Doing the top damage in most of regs. And my gear is mix 208-230 now.

It just so wrong. The PvP is so FUBAR-ed that i have real doubts about any "class balance department" existence.

 

Just making PvE Story complete and leaving this game for another year.

Devs are clueless here.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Missandei

[Aaroneus]

too long without balance? this game has been like this since release; a balance patch once a year, twice if we're lucky. that's mmo pvp for you. if you expect anything better then you're playing the wrong genre.

[Severith]

too long without balance? this game has been like this since release; a balance patch once a year, twice if we're lucky. that's mmo pvp for you. if you expect anything better then you're playing the wrong genre.

 

ESO comes out with a patch every month to a month and a half, and it almost always has smaller balancing tweeks for classes and abilities. That should be how it's done, that should be the mmo standard for balancing. Huge sweeping buffs and nerfs and then nothing for 6-7 months alienates the customer base.

[jedcjedcjedc]

I personally believe the game is going to shut down here in 5 months if they don't get their **** together and go back to splitting PVP and PVE so both camps have a chance to progress their respective progression path separately... but then again I wear a tinfoil hat before opening the blinds.

You know how long people have been saying this for? A lot longer than 5 months.

[stoopicus]

You know how long people have been saying this for? A lot longer than 5 months.

 

Yeah, this game is a total cash cow, despite its problems. Which is great, because other than the endgame this is a great game. And it used to be pretty solid at the endgame, too.

[Icykill_]

I can't help but ask myself if the devs let everyone play too long without balancing classes.

 

Now so many players have committed to their class (God knows how ****** it would be to have to grind up another toon to 300).

 

Now the big nasty nerf hammer comes for your class.

 

Many PvP'ers are complaining about the component grind and many PvE'ers are complaining about having to PVP for the fastest upgrades to 248.

 

Lots of folks are talking about Command crates being full of poo...

 

Did they wait too long....?

 

Is the +- 5% system the right mix, or does this just support FoTM jumpers rolling a melee toon from command 0 to 300?

 

Am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

I personally believe the game is going to shut down here in 5 months if they don't get their **** together and go back to splitting PVP and PVE so both camps have a chance to progress their respective progression path separately... but then again I wear a tinfoil hat before opening the blinds.

 

WhiteKnights/Naysayers/Nerfherders are encouraged to post their point of view here to enlighten us PLEBS.

 

It's the CXP grind that's going to really piss those people off..

Did they wait too long, sure, but not for your reason.

[Nyla]

Yes it's too long but everything takes too long to do for the devs with SWTOR.

 

EA suits still don't understand that focusing on one thing for a while then forgetting about for 6 months or years is not the way to go for a MMO.

They must deal with Story, group PvE, PvP, crafting... all the time, there should be updates in all areas more often.

 

When you don't do that, old players leave, the area that was left to rot get bad reputation, potential new players heard about it and play something else.

 

EA never understood, people left after launch, complaining about the sub and the game. So EA gave us F2P like the problem was really the price and fired too early the people that could fix the real problem: the game.

If you make a MMO and it doesn't perform as you want, fix the game and fast, leaving a small team with not enough ressources to deal with all the problems is just the way to a slow decline until death.

[Stellarcrusade]

The OP touches on a great point. If it were not for the broken command system nerfs wouldn't be so bad. But since it takes 2000 years to get 1 character to BiS, it is completely unfair and irresponsible to nerf classes. It may not be too bad nerfing a spec of a class if that class has another spec that is still viable and if we would make it so that when a class switches specs the set bonuses switch also. But we do not have that.

What is even worse, and devestating? Nerfing the last viable spec on a class like they are doing for Sorcs. 5.0 eliminated all DPS from sorcs, and now 5.3 will eliminate the last spec. Are they really that out of touch to think that people will simply do 1 of the following:

1.) Delete the character and begin playing another character that has viable specs left - spend another 2000 years in the failed Command system.

or

2.) Actually play a crappy class in PvP and be a complete doormat. Accept the role of having a negative effect on the outcome of a warzone.

 

Yeah, umm, neither of those will happen. People will just move on to other games and stay out of PvP, no other option really. Great job.

 

Myself, and many that I've talked to, will work for 1 class BiS, no more. That means we were hoping to play 1 class, you are about to take it away. Game over. I know i'll never do PvP again, that's a given.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Stellarcrusade

[DocGamer]

The OP touches on a great point. If it were not for the broken command system nerfs wouldn't be so bad. But since it takes 2000 years to get 1 character to BiS, it is completely unfair and irresponsible to nerf classes. It may not be too bad nerfing a spec of a class if that class has another spec that is still viable and if we would make it so that when a class switches specs the set bonuses switch also. But we do not have that.

What is even worse, and devestating? Nerfing the last viable spec on a class like they are doing for Sorcs. 5.0 eliminated all DPS from sorcs, and now 5.3 will eliminate the last spec. Are they really that out of touch to think that people will simply do 1 of the following:

1.) Delete the character and begin playing another character that has viable specs left - spend another 2000 hours in the failed Command system.

or

2.) Actually play a crappy class in PvP and be a complete doormat. Accept the role of having a negative effect on the outcome of a warzone.

 

Yeah, umm, neither of those will happen. People will just move on to other games and stay out of PvP, no other option really. Great job.

 

Myself, and many that I've talked to, will work for 1 class BiS, no more. That means we were hoping to play 1 class, you are about to take it away. Game over. I know i'll never do PvP again, that's a given.

 

You make a valid point here. On the old system folks were not so committed, but given the new system's grind length, changing over to a new spec for the average player is a daunting task, due to the time constraint.

 

Now we have seen a lot of "White Knights" here defending their kingdom by saying ...ohhh it's soo easy to level up...etc etc...

 

but the average 10hr a week player knows the truth! It's easy if your playing the game 30hrs a week.

 

But then again, if your playing the game that much...then just about any change is not going to be an issue to you because your known as an "All day player" and I know from experience that there are a lot of those in this game.

 

So the NEXT question is: SHOULD THE DEVS HAVE/WILL MOVE THE LOWER CLASSES UP TO THE LEVEL OF THE TOP CLASSES INSTEAD OF NERFING THE TOP?

[frosttj]

They're clearly in oops our bad mode right now. This whole new "open dialog push", explaining that they're listening to feedback and etc etc etc. This fiasco of a system was so easy to see that it sucked from just reading the datamined stuff. Everyone KNEW how good some classes were going to be and how bad the command system was going to be. So clearly they didn't take into consideration the feedback they got from the PTS players pre 5.0.

 

I imagine the conversations for the new content development cycle goes a little something like this: How can we continue to recycle the 5-6 year old content...and that's why we have planet sync and galactic command.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

You make a valid point here. On the old system folks were not so committed, but given the new system's grind length, changing over to a new spec for the average player is a daunting task, due to the time constraint.

 

Now we have seen a lot of "White Knights" here defending their kingdom by saying ...ohhh it's soo easy to level up...etc etc...

 

but the average 10hr a week player knows the truth! It's easy if your playing the game 30hrs a week.

 

But then again, if your playing the game that much...then just about any change is not going to be an issue to you because your known as an "All day player" and I know from experience that there are a lot of those in this game.

 

So the NEXT question is: SHOULD THE DEVS HAVE/WILL MOVE THE LOWER CLASSES UP TO THE LEVEL OF THE TOP CLASSES INSTEAD OF NERFING THE TOP?

 

While I recognize not everyone has the same free time as everyone else, and that those with limited time progress slower, people who have more time to put into it and do so should progress faster. It's not like they are getting a special deal or anything, they are earning thier progression, they are doing the same things everyone else has to progress. That some people have less time than others, shouldn't mean that everyone else has to hold up and wait for the to catch up. Real life's demands effect everyone, but perhaps not to the same extent of course, we have to work with what we have though. They can't base a system of gearing on the needs of people with limited time.

 

You're right, there are plently of "all day players", but they aren't doing anything wrong, they aren't holding anyone else back. Like anything else in life, the more you put into things, the more you get out of them. Someone with limited time has to recognize that they are not going to be able to keep pace with players with more time. People that put in three times the time as someone else, should reap three times the reward.

[merovejec]

Yes there are some good points here, mainly the one saying that it takes ages to grind to rank 300, although as a PVPer rank 181 should be enough as you have chances of getting 242s which you can upgrade instantly as you should have loads of components from PVPing.

 

If then your toon gets nerfed there is no point of playing it and to imagine you have to repeat the grind over on another toon....

 

Fact is though people should play what they like and many people keep playing their class, even with nerfs, which is something I admire about people. There are a few DPS sorcs on TRE that do ranked, like last time we got our butts kicked by a team with 2 dps sorcs and I had 3 mandos on my team (yeah sure rellores that couldnt play, but still).

 

Still for a person like me (that plays all parts of the game) the gearing is awesome now as I get loads of components with GSF and ranked, then upgrade the 242s i get from ops!

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Yes there are some good points here, mainly the one saying that it takes ages to grind to rank 300, although as a PVPer rank 181 should be enough as you have chances of getting 242s which you can upgrade instantly as you should have loads of components from PVPing.

 

If then your toon gets nerfed there is no point of playing it and to imagine you have to repeat the grind over on another toon....

 

Fact is though people should play what they like and many people keep playing their class, even with nerfs, which is something I admire about people. There are a few DPS sorcs on TRE that do ranked, like last time we got our butts kicked by a team with 2 dps sorcs and I had 3 mandos on my team (yeah sure rellores that couldnt play, but still).

 

Still for a person like me (that plays all parts of the game) the gearing is awesome now as I get loads of components with GSF and ranked, then upgrade the 242s i get from ops!

 

There are alot of people that stay 'true' to the classes they love come hell or high water through nerfs and low performance lulls, they remain. We hear a lot about rerollers and I'm sure there a a ton of them, but I have to say, I've never seen a class with players so unwaveringly committed to it as much as Sorcs. People love their sorcs like crazy heh. I can relate, that's how I feel about Marauders. We keep being told about the downfalls of the sorc class, and I don't doubt there are, but you could never tell it if you PVP on the Shadowlands. Sorcs are everywhere. Sometimes there are more sorcs than any other class believe it or not, and I'm not only talking about sorc healers, I'm talking DPS sorcs. People love their sorcs.

 

Say what you will about Sorcs and their place among the classes, it won't matter to people who main Sorcs. They're not going anywhere. They will stick to their class no matter what it's state, and they will impress you at times.

 

Sorcs may not love their present state in the game, but they ain't going no where. Perhaps that is their greatest unseen strength, sheer perseverance.

Edited June 27, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Elusive_Thing]

There are alot of people that stay 'true' to the classes they love come hell or high water through nerfs and low performance lulls, they remain. We hear a lot about rerollers and I'm sure there a a ton of them, but I have to say, I've never seen a class with players so unwaveringly committed to it as much as Sorcs. People love their sorcs like crazy heh. I can relate, that's how I feel about Marauders. We keep being told about the downfalls of the sorc class, and I don't doubt there are, but you could never tell it if you PVP on the Shadowlands. Sorcs are everywhere. Sometimes there are more sorcs than any other class believe it or not, and I'm not only talking about sorc healers, I'm talking DPS sorcs. People love their sorcs.

 

Say what you will about Sorcs and their place among the classes, it won't matter to people who main Sorcs. They're not going anywhere. They will stick to their class no matter what it's state, and they will impress you at times.

 

Sorcs may not love their present state in the game, but they ain't going no where. Perhaps that is their greatest unseen strength, sheer perseverance.

A lot of rerollers will undoubtedly change to something else. For this expansion I have played Assassin and Sorc virtually exclusively and they've been my mains for years, so I doubt the forthcoming changes are going to alter that pattern a whole lot. Both of my mains are either fully geared (Sin) or are one or two items from full BiS (Sorc and the Sage alt), so I've been contemplating alting a bit more anyway. I don't enjoy the other classes as much so I think my PvP will be more like 85%-90% Sin/Sorc as opposed to 95%. Not quite sure when I started playing, but it was around 1.2 or 1.3 patch, so I've seen both of the classes go their ups and downs. While the Sorc healer nerfs seem a bit excessive, I am not abandoning a class I really enjoy just because I need to tryhard more. As you said, through hell and high water...

[Stellarcrusade]

A lot of rerollers will undoubtedly change to something else. For this expansion I have played Assassin and Sorc virtually exclusively and they've been my mains for years, so I doubt the forthcoming changes are going to alter that pattern a whole lot. Both of my mains are either fully geared (Sin) or are one or two items from full BiS (Sorc and the Sage alt), so I've been contemplating alting a bit more anyway. I don't enjoy the other classes as much so I think my PvP will be more like 85%-90% Sin/Sorc as opposed to 95%. Not quite sure when I started playing, but it was around 1.2 or 1.3 patch, so I've seen both of the classes go their ups and downs. While the Sorc healer nerfs seem a bit excessive, I am not abandoning a class I really enjoy just because I need to tryhard more. As you said, through hell and high water...

 

CXP prevents rerolling. People will just be done with it.

[Elusive_Thing]

CXP prevents rerolling. People will just be done with it.

I've got an extensive collection of extra 246 and 248 mods. I've used those to gear my Sniper and PT to a decent already. After grinding this much with two toons, I've got enough to get by. Others might find it more difficult, of course.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

A lot of rerollers will undoubtedly change to something else. For this expansion I have played Assassin and Sorc virtually exclusively and they've been my mains for years, so I doubt the forthcoming changes are going to alter that pattern a whole lot. Both of my mains are either fully geared (Sin) or are one or two items from full BiS (Sorc and the Sage alt), so I've been contemplating alting a bit more anyway. I don't enjoy the other classes as much so I think my PvP will be more like 85%-90% Sin/Sorc as opposed to 95%. Not quite sure when I started playing, but it was around 1.2 or 1.3 patch, so I've seen both of the classes go their ups and downs. While the Sorc healer nerfs seem a bit excessive, I am not abandoning a class I really enjoy just because I need to tryhard more. As you said, through hell and high water...

 

Yeah, alot of em will just reroll, the only thing that will tempter that some is the fact that it such a pain in the azz to start all over again with all the command leveling and grinding for gear. That will likely cause some people to just say screw and still with what they got.

 

I wasn't thrilled when 5.0 dropped. Carnage marauder DPS got lower, they dropped from 2nd place in 4.0 to 8th place in 5.0. But I love the class and it didn't even enter my mind to consider rerolling a Merc or a Sniper. People definately have their preferences. Sorcs, they may care that they low on the totem pole of course, but they just wont relent. They love their Sorcs like crazy.

 

Even now though, I still some DPS sorcs doing well in Regs, and I can't believe how many sorcs I still see going at it in WZs.

 

I guess when you are the low guy on the totem pole, there's only one direction can still go. Up the totem pole! I think if the nerfs to merc and sniper bring their DPS in close proximity to DPS sorcs, despite sorcs still remaining where they are [til madness buff at any rate], DPS sorcs will in effect become no worser option to choose for rDPS than Sorcs or Snipers DPS wise. In that regard things may actually improve for Sorcs. Self-healing on DPS specs matters much less in PVE because if you're doing Operations there is always gonna be one or 2 healers in the group anyways so Sorcs really may be a lot more accepted for the rDPS spots.

 

Ideal? No, not by a long shot, but if it allows for greater acceptance on teams, which DPS sorcs find little of these days, more Sorc players will be filling the ranks for those spots and that will make some of them happier I think.

 

I'm sure they'll buff their DPS some though in 5.4 or so. One can hope at any rate!

[Ruhun]

CXP prevents rerolling. People will just be done with it.

 

This hopefully mitigates the bandwagon.

[merovejec]

I've got an extensive collection of extra 246 and 248 mods. I've used those to gear my Sniper and PT to a decent already. After grinding this much with two toons, I've got enough to get by. Others might find it more difficult, of course.

 

yes my sentinel is rank 300 and im doing GSF and ranked on hit, i got excess PVP components i use to gear alts and i keep on getting 246 and 248 gear from packs, which i use for alts too!

[Stellarcrusade]

This hopefully mitigates the bandwagon.

 

Yes, it will mitigate the bandwagon because people will just quit the game. Which is better, tons of people leaving or people re-rolling like they could in 4.0 and prior?