Class Changes: Virulence Sniper/ Dirty Fighting Gunslinger

[Silense]

So... we destroy two other class spec's in game and give a NERF Feather Tickle to Snipers/Slingers?

 

I have ONE Sniper and she is fun to play, but not heavily used. Appears this forum is not melting in a nuke fallout shelter so I'm going to assume the Snipers/Slingers are "meh okay" with a mild nerfing.

 

can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. The nerfs will amount to a serious dps loss, enough that I wont play viru on any nim last boss anymore

[FerkWork]

FeelsRangedMan

[DenariusJay]

So... we destroy two other class spec's in game and give a NERF Feather Tickle to Snipers/Slingers?

 

I have ONE Sniper and she is fun to play, but not heavily used. Appears this forum is not melting in a nuke fallout shelter so I'm going to assume the Snipers/Slingers are "meh okay" with a mild nerfing.

 

25% dmg reduction to your biggest hitter is no tickle feather nerf. The overall dps loss is pretty significant and not far off from what arsenal got.

 

I think the reason you don't see a meltdown is because snipers generally are deeper level players then Merc/sorc re-rollers. Most of the tears from arsenal and sorc heal nerfs are from re-rollers, whos soul interest in playing the class is because they are OP, not because they like the class. Most of the sniper players play sniper because they actually like the class, its intricate and fun to play and with or without buffs they tend to stick around and still excel.

[azamba]

 

Owww boo freaking hoo!!

 

Yours is not the only class being heavily nerfed! I'm afraid IO will receive a similar if not worst hammer yet... and we were doing even less than Sniper Virulence already...so who do you think will get the worst end result (numbers on parse)???

Prepare yourselves, the End is Nigh!!

 

In a more serious note...I agree with most people that all these changes SHOULD be tested on PTS first by us real players before going live. It would be the right thing to do, to see for real the consequences of these changes.

However, I don't think it will happen. I'm sure the Devs are working with a tight schedule already and I don't think they will postpone this Update any longer than they have to. Which is funny, because rushing things now will only create the need for more patches later. Well, some things never change.

Edited June 23, 2017 by azamba

[kvandertulip]

I am pretty confident that these changes make Virulence the single worst spec to play in pvp. Cull was the only ability that gets kills. Nerfing it by that much removes any burst the spec has, and is going to make killing anything a near impossible feat.

[paucisverbis]

It seems to be a rather unfortunate nerf for us who main and/or love playing Virulence/Dirty Fighting, but we will have to see how it plays out in actual operations. I still can't understand how this spec can be classified under the "quasi-sustained damage" category, other than perhaps because of the "bursty" nature of cull, which is now greatly nerfed to say the least. Regardless, I will keep playing Sniper/Gunslinger. Class doesn't make the player; player makes the class. Edited June 24, 2017 by paucisverbis

[kvandertulip]

I still can't understand how this spec can be classified under the "quasi-sustained damage" category, other than perhaps because of the "bursty" nature of cull, which is now greatly nerfed to say the least.

 

That's the thing. These changes remove any burst Virulence has. It will be a 100% sustained dps if these changes go into effect. Removing Weakening Blast triggering from Cull is a very thoughtless change that totally neuters this spec.

[TheThingie]

• Wounding Shots deals 25% less damage
  
• Hemorrhaging Blast deals 11% more damage, costs 5 energy, and is no longer triggered by weapon damage from Wounding Shots
  

 

Doesn't doing this make it much LESS bursty, as in, Virulence should no longer be between Sustained and Burst Ranged DPS? Would this make it much more Sustained, and should be modified in that way, instead of having its own little extra dps cut for being "Quasi-Sustained"?

[Senpai_noob]

Hah whoops. I had Virulence Assassin instead of Sniper and spelled Fighting wrong. TGIF, amirite? It has been fixed.

 

-eric

 

Are you ever gonna fix ranked pvp just like you fixed the title?

[Jamtas]

Any chance snipers can get their cleanse back?

[THAT_EPIC_GUY]

Every nerf thread is just a plethora of people commenting the nerf is too severe.

 

People have done rough math; as have I. These changes bring it down a lot but everything's going down which in my opinion is good (content is way too easy right now due to overgearing). It's still ahead of MM but MM is expanding its niche which is important imo. As far as overall meta, we haven't seen IO changes and we haven't seen madness changes, those specs will likely end up in a similar place.

 

The major flaw in this balance roll out though is that it is 2-part. Anything not getting touched in 5.3 is going to be in a pretty strong place with the exception of a couple specs which aren't great now but will relatively become more appealing. This in particular extends to non-sorc healers and marauders. The general theme of these changes are good but because these three classes/roles have been left out in this round, we can expect to see a pretty broken meta centered around these (and perhaps operative dps too) until 5.4 at the very least.

[azamba]

Every nerf thread is just a plethora of people commenting the nerf is too severe.

 

People have done rough math; as have I. These changes bring it down a lot but everything's going down which in my opinion is good (content is way too easy right now due to overgearing). It's still ahead of MM but MM is expanding its niche which is important imo. As far as overall meta, we haven't seen IO changes and we haven't seen madness changes, those specs will likely end up in a similar place.

 

The major flaw in this balance roll out though is that it is 2-part. Anything not getting touched in 5.3 is going to be in a pretty strong place with the exception of a couple specs which aren't great now but will relatively become more appealing. This in particular extends to non-sorc healers and marauders. The general theme of these changes are good but because these three classes/roles have been left out in this round, we can expect to see a pretty broken meta centered around these (and perhaps operative dps too) until 5.4 at the very least.

 

Exactly! And this is a big deal at the moment. The right thing to do would be to change/nerf ALL classes at the same time (same patch), but just after 1 month on PTS to really test it out.

But the way things are they will not be using PTS, and will leave a few classes out of the nerf hammer for 5.3, which will create another problem for the next couple of months...that is, considering that all those nerfs will be on point with the current content...if not, more problems to solve, more patches...

Edited June 24, 2017 by azamba

[paucisverbis]

Every nerf thread is just a plethora of people commenting the nerf is too severe.

 

[T]hese changes bring it down a lot but everything's going down which in my opinion is good (content is way too easy right now due to overgearing).

 

The major flaw in this balance roll out though is that it is 2-part. Anything not getting touched in 5.3 is going to be in a pretty strong place with the exception of a couple specs which aren't great now but will relatively become more appealing. This in particular extends to non-sorc healers and marauders. The general theme of these changes are good but because these three classes/roles have been left out in this round, we can expect to see a pretty broken meta centered around these (and perhaps operative dps too) until 5.4 at the very least.

 

I agree with what Mac wrote above (and quoted here). I will always oppose unreasonable nerfing (and buffing), but any change in general that challenges/pushes players to be a better player with his/her class/spec, situational judgment and selection of abilities is a good thing.

Edited June 24, 2017 by paucisverbis

[Hoppinswtor]

This is dumb.

 

I understand you have a target dps and want to lower the spec's overall dps output on a dummy. That's fine. Do it, whatever, idgaf. Why completely nerf the ONE burst window that this spec has? What purpose does that serve? Why not just lower the dmg of all the moves by a little bit? TTK is already absurdly high in pvp as it is. Players should be PUNISHED for eating an entire cull channel. Why not make pvp a little bit cerebral again? 3.0 was amazing because you actually died if you screwed up (and likewise, things actually died if you set up your burst correctly).

 

You are completely changing the dynamic of the spec and the rotation and effectively cutting the balls off its killing power.

 

Fire your staff and hire me. Kthx.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Hoppinswtor

[ivanhedgehog]

Ya... these changes will be putting viru at about the same single target capability as lightning... which is not good at all.

 

makes me ask the question, will the devs be adjusting boss HP down or enrage timers up? Or are they fine with less successful hm/nim participation?

[ivanhedgehog]

I think most of the playerbase realized that arsenal was in dire need of a DPS nerf and so are it's defensives, in particular as the spec is so easy to play.

 

Sure I doubt many are happy with the nerf to Virulence but it still viable in bossfights imo and it's hardly the end of the world. The aspect of being forced to swap around between specs is just something positive for a class, it is stupid when only once spec is viable for all bossfights, as it has been prior

 

Edit: Another important note, there is a context of DPS as well, as in requirements in PvE bossfights and for that, Viru is still viable as the DPS requirements overall are low and as we constantly get even better gear despite no buffs to nightmare content. As in, people are crying over a reduction of numbers, despite the numbers still being more than sufficient to clear all content.

ok, lets see them prove it. Lets see the devs livestream them clearing a NIM DP with 2 lightning sorcs, a vir sniper, a arsenal merc and 2 sorc healers. after the nerfs of course. Let us see them do it and we should feel a lot better about their balance campaign.

[ivanhedgehog]

ok so here it's a stupid nerf. you're killing the spec with these changes.

 

weakening blast costing energy ?? cull 25% damage nerf

 

you're not playing this game...

 

i bet for the death of engineering soon, seeing this.

 

any pve boys arguing it's a nerf because of PvP??

 

Thats where both playstyles have it wrong. It is a nerf to bring it to an arbitrary point that comes from their pointy heads, not pvp or pve. They decided where each class should be and they dont give a crap if they are viable in pve or pvp. Look at the abortion that is sorcs. In 9 months or a year they will ask why no one plays them, and wonder where they all went. pvpers will complain that they have no heals and pveers will complain that no one does hm/nim except a few guild groups.

[SilverStarSeaker]

Inb4 the pve'ers start crying that this is because of pvp too.

[Lahandra]

I think the reason you don't see a meltdown is because snipers generally are deeper level players then Merc/sorc re-rollers. Most of the tears from arsenal and sorc heal nerfs are from re-rollers, whos soul interest in playing the class is because they are OP, not because they like the class. Most of the sniper players play sniper because they actually like the class, its intricate and fun to play and with or without buffs they tend to stick around and still excel.

 

Someone gets it......^^^^^^.....

[scardera]

i dont even play a sniper and i find those nerf stupid. bioware want to kill this game Edited June 24, 2017 by scardera

[Tyristles]

25% reduction on cull's weapon damage

Weakening blast costs energie and will not be triggered from the damage of cull

 

I think we can say that's a massiv nerf for Virulence/ Dirty fighting in PvE endcontent.

 

A little reduction on cull's weapon damage like 12% in exchange for a little boost on lethal shot (4%) would have been ok, but not so much.

And they really want to add an energie cost on Weakening Blast? Has anyone from Bioware ever played this spec ?

 

RIP Virulence/Dirty Fighting as we know it right now

Edited June 24, 2017 by Tyristles

[Lahandra]

And they really want to add an energie cost on Weakening Blast? Has anyone from Bioware ever played this spec ?

 

RIP Virulence/Dirty Fighting

 

Do you honestly have energy issues with the way it is now??? It's pretty easy to manage and the output is OP. Heck, you can dumb it down to a 2 cull rotation and still pull decent numbers with zero energy concerns.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Lahandra

[ngyongyi]

Do you honestly have energy issues with the way it is now??? It's pretty easy to manage and the output is OP. Heck, you can dumb it down to a 2 cull rotation and still pull decent numbers with zero energy concerns.

 

Do you activate a skill, then wait 0.5-1.0 sec before activating the next one after the GCD is up? If so, then yeah, there's absolutely no energy issues. Or do you use rifle shot a lot? Then, yeah no energy issues.

 

His main idea was that it's manageable now, with the occasional rifle shot (roll on dummy) and use of other energy cooldowns, but with the 5 energy cost on weakening blast, it will cause a cascading negative effect in the rotation.

[RikuvonDrake]

I think one of the key factors that players overlook is that at the moment, Virulence DPS output is much more than enough to clear all Nightmare content, as in every-single-boss, there is simply no issue. With the nerfs, be it 800 or 900 as players with Google spreadsheets earlier commented, that will still be plenty enough to clear content. Think about it for a second, as 5.0 was released we were sitting with around 230-234 gear when all Nightmare was cleared, now we have 246/248, the difference in stats is huge.

 

I would argue that despite the nerfs, Virulence is still plenty enough for all Storymode, Hardmode as well as for most Nightmare content, in addition, this promotes the usage of other specs which, let's be honest, is exactly what Snipers need. You don't want one spec to rule them all.

 

Crying about reduced numbers is fine, but don't translate that into saying you won't be able to clear nightmare, because despite the average DPS being reduced, it's still enough to clear the DPS checks currently ingame.

Edited June 24, 2017 by RikuvonDrake

[Lahandra]

Do you activate a skill, then wait 0.5-1.0 sec before activating the next one after the GCD is up? If so, then yeah, there's absolutely no energy issues. Or do you use rifle shot a lot? Then, yeah no energy issues.

 

No..... I play the spec in NiM ops, and pull my weight just fine with the appropriate APM. Is rifle shot substituted to conserve energy in a 3 cull??? Sure, it's a requirement of the spec.... lol..... But that's no different than the use of rapid shots in an I/O rotation..... Again, the energy management isn't hard at all ATM if you're playing the spec smart. Which in turn, will be exactly how you have to play it post nerf........ The point stands, that you can dumb it down and play a 2 cull with absolutely no thinking about energy and still pull higher numbers than a lightning sorc or even MM sniper. So no, adding energy cost to WB isn't the end of the world. And this certainly isn't the "end" of vir snipers...... It's just turning into another "the sky is falling" thread.... just like the mercs..... just like the sorcs.......

 

His main idea was that it's manageable now, with the occasional rifle shot (roll on dummy) and use of other energy cooldowns, but with the 5 energy cost on weakening blast, it will cause a cascading negative effect in the rotation.

 

Firstly, you don't do much rolling on an op's boss...... smh...... And secondly, if you're having terrible energy issues now, then yeah, it's going to be a problem, but you certainly shouldn't be having those energy issues now. It might actually cause, GOD FORBID, a change in the rotation.......

Edited June 24, 2017 by Lahandra