Server Merge Discussion Thread

[casirabit]

I sometimes think harassment is crossing the line of griefing and trolling. So sometimes I think you have to accept a certain degree of griefing and trolling because it's part of the MMO experience, like a flock of birds crapping on your car and somehow missing every other car around you is a part of life; **** just happens, and sometimes it actually does fall from the sky. Sometimes the Jawa jokes just happen in General Chat.

 

The jawa jokes don't bother me actually. It is the other type of griefing and trolls thatt do. I have patience up to a point and when they cross the line that is when it is enough. Sure you going to have some because there are some people out there that live to grief and troll but there is point where it has gone too far.

 

And nope not going to put in my signature but Ebon Hawk has a healthy population. I am on most every night and there is people on playing and the population is doing great. Last night I was doing heroics on Balmorra and winded up grouping up with people just to get the heroics that did not have instances done and there were 3 instances on Balmorra. 2 pve and 1 pvp. The interesting thing is most of the time people are willing to group up even for heroics and people are friendly and respectful, something I did not find on Harbinger when I went to check it out.

 

While there are some servers that need merged, Ebon Hawk isn't one that does.

[Icykill_]

"Johnny, we merged servers and you have to change your name, despite the fact that you have had it for 5 years, but here, have a title. "

 

 

What happens to those players who have two "names"? I know that having two "names" lessens the chance of two separate players having the same name, but I use the same names across several servers. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

Just an idea.. nothing more.. that's what's this thread should be about, ideas and ways to improve possible hurdles instead of all the bickering backwards and forwards

[Icykill_]

https://www.jedichurch.org/

 

This isn't a joke, this is a real life church and real people, they list Jedi as their religion on official government census and other legal forms.

 

Insaneeeeeeeeeeee

 

😉 I know.. that's why I was serious

[Icykill_]

So why is it okay for /ignore to block players out of PvE group finder groups, but not PvP group finder groups? Doesn't seem all that fair to me. It should block both or neither. There's positives and negatives to both options, I'd just like to see some consistency.

 

Off track for one quick sec to respond by asking, why is it that pve guys can remove a player from their group before they start, but pvp guys can't?

One of my biggest gripes is popping with pvp bots and not being able to remove the, before the match starts.

[MasterVidnyl]

Hello, I don't post often but I read a lot of these threads. I have been playing since closed server testing (Founder and all that). I was a Tarro Blood original server toon. I love this game and I play every aspect.

 

I am for mass server mergers. I agrees with RPers that they will need their own server. I want to be able to play my story and group Content. Regularly I have to wait quite long to pop vFP, GSF and even PvP at times. Current server is a shadow Lands.

 

Shout out to Keith and Musco: the last few months have been a huge improvement in communication. I deeply appreciate the effort since April. Thank you for your work.

 

Mtfbwy,

Vidnyl

[EzioMessi]

Off track for one quick sec to respond by asking, why is it that pve guys can remove a player from their group before they start, but pvp guys can't?

One of my biggest gripes is popping with pvp bots and not being able to remove the, before the match starts.

 

Don't even bother with the "before they start" qualifier. Even after starting, we can't kick anyone except AFKers. Dealing one hit of damage cancels the autokick, why?????? It's not like AFKing is the only valid reason to kick players.... like I've tried kicking an idiot on my server who randomly just gives up nodes to the other team because he finds it funny and "wants to see if the other node guard can survive a 2v1". Can't kick him. And Bioware's empty customer service is also incapable of taking any decent action against him.

 

It's infantilizing. "Oh we trust the PvErs to be grownup and use their vote to kick responsibly, but we don't trust you filthy PvPers for it", even though PvErs use it just as irresponsibly as PvPers do sometimes.

[AscendingSky]

Agree with this. No amount of this is acceptable. There should be a zero tolerance policy with this. At this point I am thinking there are one or two reasons people don't want to leave the RP servers separate

 

1) They feel that somehow this would reduce the pool of players that queue through Groupfinder or use LFG in chat thus reducing the rate of "pops" for those systems.

2) They are afraid that the people who don't want to move to megaservers would move to the RP servers with the same effect.

 

There is absolutely no reason why the RP servers cannot stay separate. As has been stated many times What is the reason these servers can't remain separate? We see a lot of posts that say I don't understand why they should be separate but nobody ever states a reason why they should be merged other than effectively "just because"

 

All they care about is getting slightly faster pops for themselves. That's it. That's the only possible reason why they would continue to insist that Ebon Hawk (AKA the second highest populated server in the NA region!) for some reason needs to be merged with either all the other East Coast servers or all the other NA servers period. That's the only possible reason they can justify to themselves making noise about how allegedly there are just too few RPers to justify their own server, by willfully ignoring the existence of Ebon Hawk (again, the second highest populated server in the NA region!) as well as refusing to read or acknowledge all the posts people have made repeatedly explaining how RP instances on a megaserver would not work.

 

It's a fundamentally selfish and obstinate point of view to dismiss all evidence and rational arguments against your position because you only care about your own experience and not those of others. It drives me up the wall because the RP scene on TOR is the ONLY reason I stuck with this game through the two and a half years of PvE content drought, and now these people who are only concerned about getting more LFG fodder want to kill the RP scene in this game by subjecting us to the Harbinger's levels of toxicity and harassment. No, that is not acceptable.

Edited June 10, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Ratajack]

Off track for one quick sec to respond by asking, why is it that pve guys can remove a player from their group before they start, but pvp guys can't?

One of my biggest gripes is popping with pvp bots and not being able to remove the, before the match starts.

 

While I do not PVP, I agree. Just as I think that the ignore list should prevent you from being put into a WZ with those bots in the first place.

[FennixFox]

Regarding current server populations, is this a problem that affects every server right now, or is there a server out there where the population is fine and the folks that play exclusively on it are “living the server merge dream”?

 

Let’s say BioWare merged servers, what does a successful server merge look like?

 

What are everyone’s expectations for the following post-merge?

• How long would you expect various queues to take to pop in this new environment (ranked, unranked pvp, solo vs group, GSF, Ops, FPs, Uprisings, etc)?
  
• Would you expect PvP groups to be more random and matches to be more competitive?
  
• What is your expectation for GTN and economy? Would it be improved?
  
• Are you expecting Conquest to be more competitive as a result of a merge?
  
• Are you expecting there to be plenty of guilds to choose from that are focused on the activities you like to play?
  

 

Is solving the technical logistics a requirement for BioWare doing a server merge or are there things you see as show-stoppers if they can't be resolved? For example.

• You get to keep your names.
  
• You’re given increased legacy cargo space because multiple legacies are getting merged.
  
• You get to keep decorated strongholds. If you have multiple strongholds of the same type (i.e., two Yavin IV) then you can choose which one to keep.
  
• You get to maintain your outfits.
  
• Caps for Items Stash and Legacy currencies are increased for the merge.
  

 

I'm curious to know what a successful merge looks like to everyone and the threshold of change that is required to make them worthwhile.

[DWho]

Regarding current server populations, is this a problem that affects every server right now, or is there a server out there where the population is fine and the folks that play exclusively on it are “living the server merge dream”?

 

Let’s say BioWare merged servers, what does a successful server merge look like?

 

What are everyone’s expectations for the following post-merge?

• How long would you expect various queues to take to pop in this new environment (ranked, unranked pvp, solo vs group, GSF, Ops, FPs, Uprisings, etc)?
  
• Would you expect PvP groups to be more random and matches to be more competitive?
  
• What is your expectation for GTN and economy? Would it be improved?
  
• Are you expecting Conquest to be more competitive as a result of a merge?
  
• Are you expecting there to be plenty of guilds to choose from that are focused on the activities you like to play?
  

 

Is solving the technical logistics a requirement for BioWare doing a server merge or are there things you see as show-stoppers if they can't be resolved? For example.

• You get to keep your names.
  
• You’re given increased legacy cargo space because multiple legacies are getting merged.
  
• You get to keep decorated strongholds. If you have multiple strongholds of the same type (i.e., two Yavin IV) then you can choose which one to keep.
  
• You get to maintain your outfits.
  
• Caps for Items Stash and Legacy currencies are increased for the merge.
  

 

I'm curious to know what a successful merge looks like to everyone and the threshold of change that is required to make them worthwhile.

 

I play on Jedi Covenant and my ability to participate in group content is not impacted by its population which despite comments otherwise is relatively well populated. This is based on my playstyle which is a a combination of story, PVP, and OPs. The vast majority of the group content I participate in is through my guild and I play almost exclusively in JCs primetime. This may differ from what other people see based on their playstyles and time of play. Better pop times on group content would not significantly improve my play experience. For the guild I am in, finishing in the top 10 for Conquest would go from difficult to impossible

 

An absolute showstopper is what happened with guilds last merger. Disbanding the guilds and reforming them on a new server and having to empty out the guild banks is not acceptable as I have stated before (this would also encompass having to rebuild guild ships and strongholds on the new server).

[BlackSilverRoar]

While I don't care about the alleged 'benefits' of having a mega-server, but I'm all for cross-server grouping(like some other MMO's).

 

(*If I absolute have to, I'm not totally opposed to mega-servers, granted toons' names keeping criteria stays the same as before and my guilds and I lose NO items, unlocks or achievements in the transfer.)

 

This game has become a shell of what it was and while I can sympathize, it has to be a two-way street. Don't screw old customers over because they're gone til 6.0 or you'll never get them back, in regards to their venerable toons' names. 5.0 was considered a dud among some (however the 5.0 chapters were great, unlike its predecessor) and while you didn't impress everybody with it, that doesn't mean they won't consider returning later on, granted they like your product/next expansion and its system.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Willjb

[Foambreaker]

Just a thought, really just a twinkling of a thought regarding the possible loss of names..

 

We now have a system in place that allows a space between a name to essentially have two names, ie, Captain Kirk.

 

What if people who clash with and only have "one" name are offered the option to have two names?

It they already have a second name exactly the same, then add a possible a third space so they could have three. This would mean they could even do, James T Kirk.. of course Bio would need to change the name system to allow single letters. This could even be seen as a special reward.

The system would determine who logged in first and took advantage of the name change. If they do, then the second person with that name loses the option to change the name because they already have the name they wanted to protect.

Of course if there are more than 2 servers merged it might mean 2-4 people with the same name. In that case there would be a need for some other option, not sure what.

 

Another possibility is a special title that even shows up in chat so people can distinguish between people.

 

Remember this is just a brain fart and not fully fleshed out. I'm sure there are flaws, but also ways to make it better.

Please don't attack it out of hand or me for suggesting it.

 

I'll try to refine it and think of some other ideas. Maybe some of you guys could too. It might actually be fun and take away from some of the tension currently happening here.

 

This could be fine, however every time we decide that some new feature will make server merges palatable we add to the cost of fixing up the merge code.

 

XServer queues are totally the way to go, either group by coast or by region. People cry about ping, but that is not a real issue because the problem is the same for merge. Possibly even worse because a full server will have more inherent lag.

[belro]

This could prove very very very interesteing,i hope it works out for the better of the game.

[Savej]

This could be fine, however every time we decide that some new feature will make server merges palatable we add to the cost of fixing up the merge code.

 

XServer queues are totally the way to go, either group by coast or by region. People cry about ping, but that is not a real issue because the problem is the same for merge. Possibly even worse because a full server will have more inherent lag.

 

x-server adds the most to the "programming cost" per Bioware. BW originally said this game would have X-Server. They added a note to one of the first PvP UI screens for ranked 8s saying roughly:: "X-Server will be part of the first official season and it will happen soon". Then, many months later, BW said they were doing "megaservers" instead because they were easier. Considering that the merge code already exists and is proven to work, it has to be easier to modify that to make it work with things like Outfits, guild ships, housing,etc which should only be about putting the assets into an importable format and making sure the import code doesn't allow duping and can handle conflicts and overflows to things like banks. The current transfer system already handles things like merging achievements and unlocked decorations so I don't see the real issue unless it's just that BW staff is really that anemic.

[NuSeC]

Really dude? I mean really?

 

The point is that while BW made a statement years ago that cross server had "significant" issues to overcome, their ACTIONS at the time of the previous server merges, as well as their "silence" on the subject of server merges and the indefinite extension of the 90 CC transfer sale, would seem to indicate that there are also "significant" issues with smooth and seamless merges.

Well it certainly does not indicate when the time comes... they are going to pull cross server out of thin air.

 

 

Anyone who was here at the time knows how those previous server merges went down, and how much of a nightmare they were, and that was without all the additional personal and guild assets now in play. We have seen no indication that BW is any more capable of merging servers without the loss of personal or guilds assets now than they were at the time of the previous server merges. In fact, as I pointed out, all signs from BW would seem to indicate the opposite.

 

This is essentially you rambling again repeating your first paragraph.

 

I'm not saying that the BW statement regarding cross server queuing is invalid, but to hold that statement up as "gospel" that cross server will never happen, yet in the same breath ignore all the signs and indications that server merges will not be any less of a nightmare now, citing a mystical "what if" as your reasoning is illogical, to say the least.

How many cross server attempts have been made on live VS how many mergers? Proof is in the pudding as far as how they handle server population. Not once but TWICE.

 

What is illogical is you thinking they are going to use cross server to fix population issues when you should know that is not the track record.

 

Having done two mergers in the past does not necessarily mean that they are closer to a "smooth and seamless" server merge in which no one loses anything and no one is negatively impacted than they are to cross server queuing.

Here you go again... cross server is not what they have done... it has been said repeatedly how difficult it would be to implement... so much so, that mergers are the preferred method of dealing with population issues. as exampled twice. Why are you not understanding this?

 

Saying "IF" the issues of the previous merge were solved does not magically make those problems go away and does not magically make them solved. They still exist and cannot just be ignored in the "hopes" that they might be solved.

And again... *if* is a hypothetical outcome we would all want... you constantly arguing against a winning hypothetical is astonishingly goofy.

 

People are saying what they want to see in the next merger (if it happens) and you are all like *but that is not what happened the last time* really? WE KNOW THIS... that is the entire reason people bring up the issues. You pointing the issues out over and over is tiresome to say the least. Almost as if you either do not comprehend the comments or are just an argumentative person. People know what the issues are with mergers in the past.

[Ratajack]

Really dude? I mean really?

 

 

Well it certainly does not indicate when the time comes... they are going to pull cross server out of thin air.

 

Don't you mean IF the time comes. Unless I missed it, BW has NOT said the time will come for server merges.

 

In fact, BW has practically bent over backwards to avoid server merges.

 

 

How many cross server attempts have been made on live VS how many mergers? Proof is in the pudding as far as how they handle server population. Not once but TWICE.

 

What is illogical is you thinking they are going to use cross server to fix population issues when you should know that is not the track record.

 

 

Here you go again... cross server is not what they have done... it has been said repeatedly how difficult it would be to implement... so much so, that mergers are the preferred method of dealing with population issues. as exampled twice. Why are you not understanding this?

 

Where did I say that I was in favor of cross server queuing or was arguing for it?

 

For the record, I am against cross server queuing due to the lack of behavioral accountability that accompanies any type of cross server technology.

 

I simply recognize it as an option.

 

 

And again... *if* is a hypothetical outcome we would all want... you constantly arguing against a winning hypothetical is astonishingly goofy.

 

People are saying what they want to see in the next merger (if it happens) and you are all like *but that is not what happened the last time* really? WE KNOW THIS... that is the entire reason people bring up the issues. You pointing the issues out over and over is tiresome to say the least. Almost as if you either do not comprehend the comments or are just an argumentative person. People know what the issues are with mergers in the past.

 

People are pretending that everything will be sunshine and roses IF BW merges servers, and we do NOT know that is the case.

 

The only thing we KNOW is what happened in the past, and we have no reason to believe that things will be different in the future.

 

Fortunately, since many claim that IF BW merges servers, people want to see those merges occur perfectly and seamlessly, without all the problems that occurred in the past, there is no reason not to keep those issues and past problems at the forefront. It even makes sense to do so, as it can only help to ensure that something does not slip through the cracks. I will continue to keep those issues at the forefront, no matter how many might wish those problems would just go away.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Ratajack

[Foambreaker]

x-server adds the most to the "programming cost" per Bioware. BW originally said this game would have X-Server. They added a note to one of the first PvP UI screens for ranked 8s saying roughly:: "X-Server will be part of the first official season and it will happen soon". Then, many months later, BW said they were doing "megaservers" instead because they were easier. Considering that the merge code already exists and is proven to work, it has to be easier to modify that to make it work with things like Outfits, guild ships, housing,etc which should only be about putting the assets into an importable format and making sure the import code doesn't allow duping and can handle conflicts and overflows to things like banks. The current transfer system already handles things like merging achievements and unlocked decorations so I don't see the real issue unless it's just that BW staff is really that anemic.

 

I never indicated one would cost more than the other, only that adding features adds cost.

 

It is really pointless to discuss specifics because the engineers will estimate and that will be that

[Foambreaker]

"How many cross server attempts have been made on live VS how many mergers? Proof is in the pudding as far as how they handle server population. Not once but TWICE. "

 

How many sets of PvP gear with Expertise did they produce?

 

Just Sayin

[AscendingSky]

I sometimes think harassment is crossing the line of griefing and trolling. So sometimes I think you have to accept a certain degree of griefing and trolling because it's part of the MMO experience, like a flock of birds crapping on your car and somehow missing every other car around you is a part of life; **** just happens, and sometimes it actually does fall from the sky. Sometimes the Jawa jokes just happen in General Chat.

 

We are not talking about the kriffing Jawa game. We are talking about things like--using examples that I have personally experienced on more than one occasion--how players of female toons engaged in RP are repeatedly harassed in whispers with offers of credits to RP out sex with other players, or are ripped into for 'obviously' being slags/prostitutes/etc., both in game and in real life. Or being accused of being 'fake gamer girls' just trying to get male players to give them credits/items. Or getting accused of having teeth in their lady parts. Stuff like that. Which is just scratching the surface regarding the kinds of grief RPers have already received on their own servers, even before the RP server designation was removed.

 

If you're not a long-time RPer on this game, you haven't had to deal with the kinds of harassment, griefing, and trolling RPers have to see every damn day, so your opinions on whether RPers are harassed or not are completely ignorant and invalid. Stop trying to tell us the problem doesn't exist when we know better. I don't try to speak for the ranked PvPers' experience in the game because I've never engaged in it, so don't you try to speak for the RPers' experience if you aren't one.

Edited June 10, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Ratajack]

I never indicated one would cost more than the other, only that adding features adds cost.

 

It is really pointless to discuss specifics because the engineers will estimate and that will be that

 

We also cannot forget that when BW made that statement, we did not have all the guild and personal assets that we now have and that must also be considered.

 

When factoring in all the issues that now exist, the results might be different. Only BW can know the answer to that question.

[Savej]

...

The only thing we KNOW is what happened in the past, and we have no reason to believe that things will be different in the future.

...

 

Past merges, which I absolutely was here for, went very well for me. I heard -some- complaints on forums (as there always are about anything - ppl complain about 2x xp) but I also heard lots of praise on forums, in general chat, in guilds and in group activities. Merges (and f2p) absolutely saved the game.

[Ratajack]

Past merges, which I absolutely was here for, went very well for me. I heard -some- complaints on forums (as there always are about anything - ppl complain about 2x xp) but I also heard lots of praise on forums, in general chat, in guilds and in group activities. Merges (and f2p) absolutely saved the game.

 

I'm glad things went well for you, but your experience was vastly different than mine.

 

It took us months to even get our guild banks reinstated and we lost everything that we had in those banks.

 

Unfortunately, we are small guilds and with the limited number of character slots available at that time, we lacked the personal storage space to hold all the contents of the guild banks, and were unable to remove everything in the guild banks.

[AscendingSky]

Past merges, which I absolutely was here for, went very well for me. I heard -some- complaints on forums (as there always are about anything - ppl complain about 2x xp) but I also heard lots of praise on forums, in general chat, in guilds and in group activities. Merges (and f2p) absolutely saved the game.

 

Are you willing to personally compensate every player who loses outfit tabs, character names, guild names, stronghold unlocks, legacy bank tabs, guild bank tabs, guild strongholds, flagships, flagship expansions, and all guild donated decorations if server merges happen? Both in credits AND the real world money spent on these items? If not, stop pushing for it until EAWare can guarantee character and guild assets will be 100% absolutely guaranteed no exceptions transferred. Give that amount of consideration to your fellow players (and EAWare's paying customers).

 

I went through the server merges too. None of the guilds I was in at the time EVER got compensation for the guild bank tabs they purchased. They were told they would, and then EAWare stopped responding to the guild leaders about it. And this was back before we had so much to lose in terms of guild assets! So maybe you had a good experience, but other people had bad ones. Don't discount all the people who had bad experiences just because you had a good one.

Edited June 10, 2017 by AscendingSky

[DWho]

I'm glad things went well for you, but your experience was vastly different than mine.

 

It took us months to even get our guild banks reinstated and we lost everything that we had in those banks.

 

Unfortunately, we are small guilds and with the limited number of character slots available at that time, we lacked the personal storage space to hold all the contents of the guild banks, and were unable to remove everything in the guild banks.

 

I can echo this point as it happened to us as well. It took 2 months to get the guild bank tabs back. Fortunately as a small relatively new guild we were able to withdraw all the assets (which we did as a precaution since we had not heard they would transfer) and didn't lose them but they filled up slots on characters that whole time and thus were not easily available to the guild. Now we have 7 guild bank tabs that are virtually completely filled (over 600 items), a lot of it being Cartel Market stuff people have contributed from packs to the guild. As a character I had to rename 3 of the 5 toons I had at that time. I now have over 30 toons.

[BlackSilverRoar]

I'm glad things went well for you, but your experience was vastly different than mine.

 

It took us months to even get our guild banks reinstated and we lost everything that we had in those banks.

 

Unfortunately, we are small guilds and with the limited number of character slots available at that time, we lacked the personal storage space to hold all the contents of the guild banks, and were unable to remove everything in the guild banks.

 

< also didn't have a fond server merge experience; lost everything in the Guild banks, among other things. My guilds take server merging optimists with a bag of salt.

 

My guilds' Ships and Strongholds are loaded palaces, decorations-wise, so yeah, that would be a gamebreaker to lose all our guilds decos.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Willjb