Dezzi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Why? Because TOR has to compete with a 7-year old WoW. Period. If BioWare wants the money that I could be spending on other, more-developed games, they have to provide features as good or better than those of the other games. So we compare games because those games exist and are readily available. Right now. With fully-fleshed features and gameplay. How does this not make sense to people? Edited January 22, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daays Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) The combat log has already been announced, don't remember exactly which post it was, you'll have to search. This is mainly backing up what I've said above. Important things will be implemented short term, but only if they fit Bioware's idea of the game. And it's Bioware implementing the stuff, not some 3d party Lua coders. And this is a very good approach to keep things even, imo. Yes you're right. Cut out your community from making your game better. Tell them you know best and that they should be obedient and just play the game. Good business model. Why? Because TOR has to compete with a 7-year old WoW. Period. If BioWare wants the money that I could be spending on other, more-developed games, they have to provide features as good or better than those of the other games. So we compare games because those games exist and are readily available. Right now. With fully-fleshed features and gameplay. How does this not make sense to people? Because people are dum Edited January 22, 2012 by daays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazirian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) And for those who don't realize SWTOR is most definitely nothing like wow, Show me where there is a defined Storyline in wow or the other MMO's its copied and show me the story line here, I've tried and played wow on several occasions. never have i come across a story line that i could tell (And if i have to look for it it isn't obvious) Have you tried reading the quest text? I know reading is hard, but... Joking aside, SWTOR does a much better job of presenting its story, but that doesn't mean that previous MMOs have lacked story. SWTOR just does it better. The problem with SWTORs emphasis on story line, is that it is finite and it runs out shortly after hitting level 50. It doesn't matter how much storyline Bioware introduce in future patches, the players will always consume that content faster than it is being produced. Which leads us to... the game play doesnt remind me at all to wow and i feel while i'm playing this that TOR is carving its own place in the Genera, i believe that there's going to be a tier of the 3 great MMO's (yes i have to include wow into this) being WoW, GW, and SW:ToR You really aren't reminded of WoW when playing SWTOR? Really? They are both hotkey themepark MMOs that focus on Raiding (Operations), Dungeons (Flashpoints), PvP (Battlegrounds / Warzones) and Daily quests at the level cap. I'm amazed anyone can deny the similarities. Edited January 22, 2012 by Jazirian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzabrad Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 People forget how WoW was when it started. OP classes, glitches everywhere, trolls saying WoW needs to be like another MMO. SWTOR will be polished over time and be a fun MMO in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 No, just compare the features WoW had 7 years ago without any xpac. We're not talking about content quantity here, but about quantity/quality of features. But the thing is most of these features are a matter of prospective. Combat Log/Parser? Addons? Cross Server Automated LFG Interface? If you read the forums you have just as much people screaming for and against. So this comparison to WoW and how SW:TOR is lacking is a matter of perspective. Not necessarily fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) No, just compare the features WoW had 7 years ago without any xpac. We're not talking about content quantity here, but about quantity/quality of features. I remember WoW seven years ago. I was impressed with Blizzard's sense of humor. Bioware has also exhibited a good sense of humor in SWTOR. TOR > WoW seven years ago. If you played then you will recall the downtime, all the glitches and bugs, the PvP was nowhere near as sophisticated as it eventually became. SWTOR cannot rightly be compared with WoW, after all the expansions and time taken to perfect its systems. The player who has to decide which to play, and who isn't yet bone tired of WoW, does have to consider current state on both games to be sure. But to trash SWTOR on that basis is illegitimate. Further, those who came to SWTOR, saw it has a superficial resemblance to WoW, and chose to play it exactly as if it were WoW in a different skin are, no surprise, all complaining that SWTOR is just WoW in a different skin and find it doesn't have the decade of development time WoW enjoys. I suggest that their perception is based upon how they approached it. They played expecting it to be WoW, and just as they would have in WoW they rushed right to the end without even enjoying the scenery. Naturally they will see what their subjective conditioning projects on SWTOR. But those of us who have been through all the MMOs that have come down the pike and realized that each game must first be appreciated as itself before it can be adequately compared approached SWTOR as SWTOR, and did not ssume it was just a clone. We are enjoying the heck out of it, and don't think it is being rightly compared to WoW. Our objections are drowned out by the slanderous 'fanbois' epethet, and our views, suggestions, and objections aren't even being considered. It is a sad commentary on what our internet gaming culture has become, like cyber fanatics that cannot openly even consider alternate viewpoints. Edited January 22, 2012 by Gleneagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarh Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) without even enjoying the scenery i'm enjoyed scenario except any group-based (can't find any ppl) and i'm still fast-lvld up to 50lvl what i'm supposed to do now? i play wow something like four+ years, yup i'm get tired from same game and want to try something new, now i'm here, when i was done with story quest's i saw what? i'm not YOU i play both, i can compare, i didn't like what i see simple thing single-server pvp warzones aka bg, wut? really? BW wasn't able foresee problem here? really? oh my… part of the game is completely non-existent in case of faction-inbalanced server or underpopulated… hey fanboi what can youuu answeerr? anyone? no? Edited January 22, 2012 by navarh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelich Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 It's the same as saying that a new automobile producing company can be selling friggin' horses instead of cars. And people should be buying them. I'd be fine with this line of thinking if the company charged less for their product since it doesn't live up to modern standards. But nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Companions = Gods and Heroes Online way back in 2006. Group instances while leveing that are not Dungeons/FP = A group instance IS a dungeon. Single Player instances - which is *********** amazing = LotRO and DDO both have solo player instances. Commendations for each planent, so that they don't fail like wow did and have to worry about converting them to a different type = Yeah, instead you wind up with a bunch of worthless leftover tokens to be spent on worthless boxes/cases. Huttball - best PVP area ever, too bad Imp get it so often cuz no one plays Rep lol. I could go on, but you get the idea. WoW failed in so many areas that SWTOR has excelled. /tooshort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 WoW failed in so many areas that SWTOR has excelled. I almost spit my drink out at this part, it's such a ridiculous thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offended Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 SW:TOR = ... the game was designed on an engine that has never been used as an MMO engine before. Also by a company that has never produced an MMO before so there's bound to be bugs. The Hero Engine was written specifically to be a quick and easy platform to design MMO's around. http://www.heroengine.com/herocloud/tech-features/ BUILD ANY KIND OF ONLINE GAME You may think of HeroEngine with MMO-RPGs in mind, but now the engine architecture allows you to build any type of online game – from the hardcore to the casual, shooters, strategy games – almost anything you can imagine. You get complete control over all server and client dynamics because only HeroEngine’s scripting language is optimized for online games! just for kicks, http://www.heroengine.com/heroengine/game-systems/ MMO FOUNDATION FRAMEWORKTM Your MMO is unique, so no generic systems will do. But don’t worry, HeroEngine provides a rich set of core MMO building blocks. Use these to build your vision. Everything can be customized and extended! Character Manager and Creation core systems. Area States System and GUI Editor Object and game states: store complex objects with states. Supports serialization, persisting and restoring. Logon, Chat, and Movement building blocks. Conceptual spec system to define game play specifications. (Items, Creatures, NPC’s, Quests, etc.) Fully extensible. Server / Client data synchronization. Full GUI elements. Fully Extensible. FX system for creating visual effects such as spell or weapon effects. Stack-Based Finite State Machine for implementing your creature AI. You are right though, in that swtor was designed by a company that never had experience with MMO's before. but then, so did Blizzard. Blizzard didn't buy an existing MMO engine either, they used an engine that was never designed or thought of to be an MMO engine and created warcraft with it, that created the new template and standards to which every MMo after it still has yet to obtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offended Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I almost spit my drink out at this part, it's such a ridiculous thing to say. Ive been trying to think at anything that swtor has over warcraft. Can't think of anything beyond Lightsabers. O wait, http://www.wowhead.com/item=31336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHirogen Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The Hero Engine was written specifically to be a quick and easy platform to design MMO's around. http://www.heroengine.com/herocloud/tech-features/ just for kicks, http://www.heroengine.com/heroengine/game-systems/ You are right though, in that swtor was designed by a company that never had experience with MMO's before. but then, so did Blizzard. Blizzard didn't buy an existing MMO engine either, they used an engine that was never designed or thought of to be an MMO engine and created warcraft with it, that created the new template and standards to which every MMo after it still has yet to obtain. Except blizzard made their engine and knows how it works and modified and rebuild almost all of it. Hero and BW is not even close, which makes you wonder if they lack that personell skill and needs to hire and get better development resources. But they managed to do a decent job with U3 engine, why not use that? Or their own engine they had before, something seems out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enbee Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 SWTOR is competing against 2011 WoW, not 2004 Wow. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 because it had 7 years to do research and development. A game released after it, should have an idea based on whats already done of what should be included an a next gen mmo. As it stands, swtor is like WoW when it launched. Not how WoW is today. Which is the problem. The problem with this statement is that some of the ways Blizzard does stuff is actually patented. They'd need to work around the patent which takes a lot of time. Blizzard has had 7 years to make a very unique game, there is no way to implement a quarter of the stuff they have in a brand new game at launch. Not only would NOT be cost effective, it could possibly result in a lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadanta Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So how many of you would buy a new cell phone, if the only thing it had was the ability to call somebody. No other features came with the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xQuicksilverx Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) This is kind of an ignorant topic if you think about it. This is just buissness. World of Warcraft is SwTOR TOP competition. That is why it is always being compared to it. Apply this logic to any other product.. lets say for simplicities sake.. Mops.Now say Ive used the same old mop for years, and its gotten the job done, but Im looking for a newer mop to replace it. Now I would expect this new mop to be capable of doing everything the mop Im replacing can do. And if one of the new mops representatives told me that "this is a new brand of mop, you can't compare it to your old one" I would find that to be a very sad excuse. Again.. I wish I could have come up with a better product than mops.. I was gonna use ******s.. same logic applies.. Anyways, I understand the concept that a new game needs time to get on its feet.. however I also understand that if bioware plans on competing with World of Warcraft, they are going to have to offer the same things that WoW can. And I don't mean pandas and snore-fest raids, Im referring to the other things that people have come to think of as 'standard' in an mmo, such as 3rd party mods, more adequate testing before major patches are launched, and some kind of group finder. Of course.. all of these things "are coming". Edited January 22, 2012 by xQuicksilverx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Apply this logic to any other product.. lets say for simplicities sake.. Mops. Now say Ive used the same old mop for years, and its gotten the job done, but Im looking for a newer mop to replace it. Now I would expect this new mop to be capable of doing everything the mop Im replacing can do. And if one of the new mops representatives told me that "this is a new brand of mop, you can't compare it to your old one" I would find that to be a very sad excuse. In my personal opinion, you can't compare WoW to SWTOR. This is because the games themselves, while remaining in the same genre, are fundamentally different. This is a game on a far larger scale and offers things different from WoW. Granted, yes, a more customized UI would be nice. There are certain touches that can be worked into both, but overall you cannot expect them to be doing the same things. They are two DIFFERENT games. Not to mention, as I've stated above, Blizzard has patents on some things. That means Bioware needs to work around the patent which could take a while and can be very costly. I honestly think people need to stop saying, "WoW has this, why can't SWTOR have it?" If you want what WoW has, you should play WoW. If you want something a little different and just as fun, SWTOR is great for that. I personally play this game and love it because it so UNLIKE WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarh Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 while remaining in the same genre, are fundamentally different. explain i'm asking because i'm 100% missed that fundamental different part… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTuloJr Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 This game doesn't even have a combat log. Which is an error log. 7 years behind! Maybe in 2013 we will see one! It did during most of beta. No idea why they removed it. The dev's have stated that 1) they don't mind theorycrafting and 2) they'll reinstate the combat log sometime in the future. As to why it's compared to WoW... it's compared to it because the developers compared it to WoW continuously throughout its six YEARS of development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brosephiine Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 explain i'm asking because i'm 100% missed that fundamental different part… Both games are MMOs and function the way MMOs are expected to function, but that's where the likeness ends. There is absolutely nothing imo that makes this game anything like WoW when you play it. The classes are different, the playstyle is different, the groups are different, the dungeons are different, graphics are different, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSair Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Why do you compare your girlfriend to her mom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullfisk Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Fact of the matter is, this is a wow competitor. It doesnt matter if you think its fair to compare it to wow or not, that is what people is going to do, and they will find that swtor is not coming out ahead. If this game had come out at the same time as wow in 2004, we could compare it to the 2004 wow. But it didnt. It came out in 2011, and its going to be compared to the 2011 wow. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enako Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 noone is 'comparing'. most of the crowd blabbering about swtor this, wow that has been either initiated to mmo gaming with wow, or grew up with wow, therefore they IDENTIFY with wow. because they are accustomed to wow, they expect it is 'good' and 'standard' and 'the way things should be'. not to mention the irritation of something challenging what they identify with - its like swtor is attacking THEM instead of wow because they are identifying themselves with it. and a good deal of them also think subconsciously that swtor will damage wow by attracting gamers, therefore breaking their guilds, communities and whatnot. and actually we have seen a number of such examples in discussions here - people leaving wow guilds and coming here part by part, and others vocally expressing their irritation with that. ............... they will get used to it with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarh Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) that swtor will damage wow by attracting gamers in my guild it's like 1-2ppl and they didn't impressed at all wow solved major problem like single-server pvp warzones (bg) that ain't work and now give me reason to not copy that? any? queue like 30+min (quit cuz can't waste so much time) sorry what? *different because different* look different yes at quest feel different yes at level cap it's CTRL+C say hello to me Edited January 22, 2012 by navarh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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