SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[Twilight_Rain]

One has 7 years worth of stuff, one has stuff comparable to the other game's first release... Both charging the same price... which one would you put your money in?

 

This is a 3rd grade math problem lol. OK Einsteins... what's the answer?

[Loekii]

Quoting your meaningless, and unsubstantiated, prognostications would be a pointless exercies, other then to point out how silly you are.

 

You hate the game, yet here you are, spewing hate and condescension at other forum members.

 

I see where you insulted the poster, but I do not see where you have disproved what he said.

 

So does that mean you cannot disprove what he said, and are just mad so you insulted him instead?

[BushidoRaven]

Quoting your meaningless, and unsubstantiated, prognostications would be a pointless exercies, other then to point out how silly you are.

 

You hate the game, yet here you are, spewing hate and condescention at other forum members.

 

http://www.swtorarena.com/index.php?app=statistics

 

Sorry data mining Swtor's servers says otherwise. If you can't quite clearly see over the long haul swtor's customer base is falling off regardless.

 

I'll put this in wow terms. Think of this declination curve as a DOT. In math terms -xxxx amount of dmg/ time.

 

It's a small number but by using a linear regression model you can easily assert that a line sloping from left to right shows a small linear decrease over T. T meaning time.

 

So your DOT is ticking Swtor. Fix the bugs please, then we can talk about subscription renewals.

[TonyIommi]

http://kotaku.com/361780/wow-killer-would-cost-a-billion Look at who said the quote. This guy speaks gaming to the industry. With a release like this on Bioware's part you think the there customer's are gonna wholeheartedly wait out for 3-6 months for bioware to fix itself?

 

Quoting bobby kotick is a joke. He is playing a very shrewd PR game. If Kotick is that short sighted than I feel extremely sorry for the industry. Discouraging companies from starting up and making new mmos is the last thing anyone wants in this industry and Kotick knows this. Blizzard wants fresh meat, not regular every day scrubs who whine and complain on forums like this one. The want new people to come and play their game so they can expand their market, that's one of the thigns that SWTOR does. Kotick is either EXTREMELY short sighted or playing a PR game.

[Barathos]

Because iPad 7 is completely brand new, but it doesn't have all the features that Android 1 had, and it doesn't have the features that iPad 7 should have either. It's just incomplete. Yet, they put it on sell anyway.

 

Clear ?

 

Silence with this analogy. It might actually make sense to people.

[Halbe]

http://www.swtorarena.com/index.php?app=statistics

 

Sorry data mining Swtor's servers says otherwise. If you can't quite clearly see over the long haul swtor's customer base is falling off regardless.

 

I'll put this in wow terms. Think of this declination curve as a DOT. In math terms -xxxx amount of dmg/ time.

 

It's a small number but by using a linear regression model you can easily assert that a line sloping from left to right shows a small linear decrease over T. T meaning time.

 

So your DOT is ticking Swtor. Fix the bugs please, then we can talk about subscription renewals.

 

If you do not understand the information, or how the information was obtained, don't post this.

 

Quick Hint: It doesn't mean, or even represent, what you think it does.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Halbe

[dembonez]

If you do not understand the information, or how the information was obtained, don't post this.

 

Quick Hint: It doesn't mean, or even represent, what you think it does.

 

 

Just for arguments sake... what does it mean?

[Halbe]

Just for arguments sake... what does it mean?

 

It's basically an average of the population "STATUS", not the population themselves.

 

The creator of the site has posted multiple times on this forum the same thing, "They don't have the population numbers."

 

What they do is weight each option, Down = 0, Light = 1, Standard = 2, Heavy = 3, Very Heavy = 4, Full = 5, and then create an average based on this.

 

Now, the graph people always site is the graph with the Y-axis having 800, 600, ect.. and it's called a population graph. It isn't (as far as I've seen), what you actually think.

 

It's basically the same thing, just with the different axis.

 

Now, the biggest issue with this is if the server caps change (as they have already).

 

Say a server had 2200 players and was considered Heavy (the line is 2000 players). But now Bioware changed it. The new line is 2500.

 

But the servers population actually went up to 2400. It's still Standard now, and reduced teh average of all the servers, even though the population increased.

 

It's a good site. People just misuse or misunderstand the information.

[Havokk]

People say wow has so many fetures and swtor is bad because it does not have them... wow has had 7 years to improve upon its self.

 

The reason we complain is that TOR's developers have had those seven years to watch WoW and AoC and LOTRO and all the other games. We hope the programmers have learnt from the mistakes and triumphs of what those other games have done.

 

A game released to day should be better than all other games today; not better than how some game was seven years ago.

 

Some of the mechanics I see in TOR make me wonder if the programmers ever actually played another MMOG.

[TonyIommi]

http://www.swtorarena.com/index.php?app=statistics

 

Sorry data mining Swtor's servers says otherwise. If you can't quite clearly see over the long haul swtor's customer base is falling off regardless.

 

I'll put this in wow terms. Think of this declination curve as a DOT. In math terms -xxxx amount of dmg/ time.

 

It's a small number but by using a linear regression model you can easily assert that a line sloping from left to right shows a small linear decrease over T. T meaning time.

 

So your DOT is ticking Swtor. Fix the bugs please, then we can talk about subscription renewals.

 

I'll quote the guy who actually runs the website with those graphs

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1564827#post1564827

 

Yet again I want to post my clarification on graphics;

 

quick info on this; (as I'm the developer of that tool), the generated charts DOES NOT represent user subscriptions.

 

Instead the tool reads http://www.swtor.com/server-status and generate charts for server-loads based on given population field on the page.

 

So basically a total value of 800 (in y axis) for a total of 215 server means = 800 / 215 = 3.7 = ~ Heavy population in average.

 

Where as a value of 600 (in y axis) for a total of 215 server means = 800 / 215 = 2.7 = Standard population.

0 -> offline

1 - 2 -> light

2 - 3-> standard

3 - 4 -> heavy

4 - 5 -> very heavy

5+ -> full

 

So yet again, the game did not lost active subscribers last two weeks but instead average population of servers dropped down - which is a good thing (meaning less queues if any).

 

In MMO launches, heavy populations are always expected and over time they normalize - which is already the case for SWTOR -- and those charts actually represent that.

 

Can anybody with a post in first page of the thread can paste this explanation? So people can get an understanding of the charts before commenting on the OP's erroneous interpretation of them.

 

Here is an FAQ on the tool as well! http://www.swtorarena.com/topic/210-...tics-tool-faq/

 

I'm tired of educating you people. Do some research.

[dembonez]

It's basically an average of the population "STATUS", not the population themselves.

 

The creator of the site has posted multiple times on this forum the same thing, "They don't have the population numbers."

 

What they do is weight each option, Down = 0, Light = 1, Standard = 2, Heavy = 3, Very Heavy = 4, Full = 5, and then create an average based on this.

 

Now, the graph people always site is the graph with the Y-axis having 800, 600, ect.. and it's called a population graph. It isn't (as far as I've seen), what you actually think.

 

It's basically the same thing, just with the different axis.

 

Now, the biggest issue with this is if the server caps change (as they have already).

 

Say a server had 2200 players and was considered Heavy (the line is 2000 players). But now Bioware changed it. The new line is 2500.

 

But the servers population actually went up to 2400. It's still Standard now, and reduced teh average of all the servers, even though the population increased.

 

It's a good site. People just misuse or misunderstand the information.

 

That sounds like your numbers versus theirs. Not knocking what you said, you sound like you have put thought in to it. The issue is their numbers show a downward trend and you are claiming that that is incorrect. You are asking me to accept some things I cannot (not that I do not want to). Numbers mean everything without something being applied to them. I will agree that once BW releases numbers we can have an argument but as long as sites like this, that take information from what is available exists, it is the best information we have.

 

When we see some math that backs up your assertions I am all ears. Seriously. I do not care how it ends up one way or another. I love watching these types of arguments. Once the server cap is changed we should see a different trend right?

[TonyIommi]

That sounds like your numbers versus theirs. Not knocking what you said, you sound like you have put thought in to it. The issue is their numbers show a downward trend and you are claiming that that is incorrect. You are asking me to accept some things I cannot (not that I do not want to). Numbers mean everything without something being applied to them. I will agree that once BW releases numbers we can have an argument but as long as sites like this, that take information from what is available exists, it is the best information we have.

 

When we see some math that backs up your assertions I am all ears. Seriously. I do not care how it ends up one way or another. I love watching these types of arguments. Once the server cap is changed we should see a different trend right?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1564827#post1564827

 

That actual creator of that website who mantains and runs it and is responsible for its creation and analysis of the data. Educate yourself.

[Halbe]

That sounds like your numbers versus theirs. Not knocking what you said, you sound like you have put thought in to it. The issue is their numbers show a downward trend and you are claiming that that is incorrect. You are asking me to accept some things I cannot (not that I do not want to). Numbers mean everything without something being applied to them. I will agree that once BW releases numbers we can have an argument but as long as sites like this, that take information from what is available exists, it is the best information we have.

 

When we see some math that backs up your assertions I am all ears. Seriously. I do not care how it ends up one way or another. I love watching these types of arguments. Once the server cap is changed we should see a different trend right?

 

It's not my numbers vs. theirs, it's pretty much directly from their site. See the previous page for the quote from the site's creator.

[dembonez]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1564827#post1564827

 

That actual creator of that website who mantains and runs it and is responsible for its creation and analysis of the data. Educate yourself.

 

And? What do we have to the contrary? You cannot create numbers and plug them in. Either something is a trend or it is not. As I said, when we have a different set of numbers we can see. I would say educate yourself but you do not want to. You have an agenda

[TonyIommi]

And? What do we have to the contrary? You cannot create numbers and plug them in. Either something is a trend or it is not. As I said, when we have a different set of numbers we can see. I would say educate yourself but you do not want to. You have an agenda

 

Did you actually bother to read what he posted. The trend is based of the average status of the server. The status is based on the MAXIMUM CAP OF THE SERVER. If the cap is raised then servers that were HEAVY become STANDARD, thusly instead of being 5 it becomes a 4. Educate yourself.

 

 

Yet again I want to post my clarification on graphics;

 

quick info on this; (as I'm the developer of that tool), the generated charts DOES NOT represent user subscriptions.

 

Instead the tool reads http://www.swtor.com/server-status and generate charts for server-loads based on given population field on the page.

 

So basically a total value of 800 (in y axis) for a total of 215 server means = 800 / 215 = 3.7 = ~ Heavy population in average.

 

Where as a value of 600 (in y axis) for a total of 215 server means = 800 / 215 = 2.7 = Standard population.

0 -> offline

1 - 2 -> light

2 - 3-> standard

3 - 4 -> heavy

4 - 5 -> very heavy

5+ -> full

 

So yet again, the game did not lost active subscribers last two weeks but instead average population of servers dropped down - which is a good thing (meaning less queues if any).

 

In MMO launches, heavy populations are always expected and over time they normalize - which is already the case for SWTOR -- and those charts actually represent that.

 

Can anybody with a post in first page of the thread can paste this explanation? So people can get an understanding of the charts before commenting on the OP's erroneous interpretation of them.

 

Here is an FAQ on the tool as well! http://www.swtorarena.com/topic/210-...tics-tool-faq/

 

You guys should really work for fox news or something. Even when someone is giving you the facts you dismiss it as an agenda.

Edited January 21, 2012 by TonyIommi

[dembonez]

It's not my numbers vs. theirs, it's pretty much directly from their site. See the previous page for the quote from the site's creator.

 

It is what it is. We need another set of numbers. I have no doubt that it may be different than what we see.

[TonyIommi]

It is what it is. We need another set of numbers. I have no doubt that it may be different than what we see.

 

Oh now the numbers are wrong. When the actual analysis doesn't come out in your favour we need another set of numbers. Who has an agenda now?

[dembonez]

Oh now the numbers are wrong. When the actual analysis doesn't come out in your favour we need another set of numbers. Who has an agenda now?

 

My favor? What is my favor? You seem to have something that you want to be true. I do not care. Again. This is fun argument. You are tin foil hatting on me I must be your "enemy." Numbers are numbers friend. Either they will trend one way or another. They will not magically go both.

Edited January 21, 2012 by dembonez

[GalacticKegger]

People compare TOR to WoW because WoW is (a) what they are used to and (b) the 600lb gorilla. Time in service is relevant to agents of change who understand and embrace the difference between a rookie and an 8 year veteran. Those who oppose change stand by the veteran's status quo because it's established presence seemingly provides less risk. Risk of what I have no idea.

[Zorvan]

People compare TOR to WoW because WoW is (a) what they are used to and (b) the 600lb gorilla. Time in service is relevant to agents of change who understand and embrace the difference between a rookie and an 8 year veteran. Those who oppose change stand by the veteran's status quo because it's established presence seemingly provides less risk. Risk of what I have no idea.

 

I compare it to WoW because the head honchos of EAware flat out stated WoW was their chosen model for how mmos should be made.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/bioware-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-the-old-republic/

 

"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Zorvan

[Offended]

I compare it to WoW because the head honchos of EAware flat out stated WoW was their chosen model for how mmos should be made.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/bioware-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-the-old-republic/

 

lol

"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.

 

The Co-founder of bioware called his own company dumb!

[gangbot]

It is 2012, the features of modern MMO's should have been added to this game automatically. We need to compare this to the greatest MMO ever to give bioware an idea where they are at, in order to realise where the changes need to take place whether they copy a feature or do the complete opposite.

[Bregah]

The fact that WoW is 7 years old means nothing.

 

Well, it means that Bioware had 7 years of Blizzard's failures to use as a base to design TOR around (and in many cases simply ignored the collective experience of all MMO's, with WoW being at the forefront).

 

But ultimately it doesn't matter how old either game is.

 

What matters is what the games are like NOW, as your choice (if choosing between WoW and TOR) is to play WoW as it is now, or play TOR as it is now.

 

Some leeway can be given for things such as number of raids/flashpoints/quests/etc - content, as content builds over time, and bugs will happen.

 

But basic design decisions and implementation, such as funky chat windows in TOR, completely uncustomizable UI in TOR, horrid LFG tool in TOR (worse than EQ2's was over 7 years ago), and other similar non-content things don't require gradual improvements over the years.

 

For example - Bioware was in no way required to design a 1999-era UI, and then over the coming years gradually bring it up to modern standards. They could have simply started with an aim to provide a modern UI and then given us one. Rift did. But Bioware CHOSE to include a nearly feature-less UI for some unknown (to all but them) reason.

 

Same thing can be said about dual specs and a LFD tool. I have never seen a statement from Bioware about why neither feature is included (and I don't want to turn this into a debate on the merits of either being included or not), but many people find these features incredibly useful in other games, and are surprised they are not here. The lack of either makes me think of this game as unnecessarily "old", and I suspect if both were added (or had been included at launch), more people would be happier than not. By a huge margin. I know the lonely group mobs around the TOR world would be excited by a bit of company.

[Bullsith]

Isn't this the wet dream of every WoW hating SWTOR fanboi? SWTOR killing WoW? So I guess that's why. Sadly the reality is different, much different than the delusions fanboiz have.

 

Still WoW is an old game that is about to hit a decade of flawless success. Hate them all you want, that is worth some, if not, a lot of respect.

 

So yeah, I die just a little inside thinking that a game that was given almost half a decade in development, the incredible sum of 200 million dollars to make, and in the end it does not even come close to WoW's first expansion from most perspectives.

 

But yeah, only time will determine it's fate.

[Nitewolfe]

People say wow has so many fetures and swtor is bad because it does not have them... wow has had 7 years to improve upon its self. Give Swtor a chance and time to put in the things your ******* complaining about.... ¬.¬

 

WoW was not the first MMO nore was it original all WoW did was take the MMO template and improve upon it by removing things that were annoying (e.g crafting had a chance to fail) it did this with games Such as Ever Quest and so on.

 

SWTOR has done the same it has take the MMO TEMPLATE not copyed wow but taken the MMO TEMPLATE Which all MMO's use and removed useless stuff, ADDED its own stuff and improved upon existing stuff.

 

People need to remember WoW its self is a quoat un quoat "Clone" of the MMO's that came before it.

 

My final point. Who cares if it borrowed things from other games, it happens all the time in everything. just shut up, get on with the game and stop comparing it to WoW; an MMO thats long out lived its greatness WoW "died" along time ago and is just clinging onto life and dragging its self out to long. Its 7 gosh darn years old, its had its time at the top and has set a good standard for MMO's to go by and people should accept the fact its long out lived its awesomenes.

 

Content to content no i do not expect a new game to have the amount of content a 7 year old game has.

What i do expect is for a new game to have current mmo tools and performance.

What your saying here is rca didnt have remote controls when they started making TV's so sanyo is going to be ok with out having remote controls till 7 year from now.

I know i be upset if i opened my brand new TV and there was no remote. Add to it that when i called about it i have a lot of fanboys tell me that this TV doesnt need a remote they just make you lazy anyways or told that the company is brand new and they just have not got around to adding remotes yet!

Common mmo tools of this modern age.

target of target windows

customizable UI's

lfg systems that work

appearance systems

comprehensive graphic settings that allow for both high and low end systems

Less loading screens

I am sure others could add more.