SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[youwillburn]

That's a terrible analogy and you know it.

 

You discredit how long WoW has on SWToR because, why? It's a huge reason (not to mention no competition at the time WoW launched).

 

There is only a finite of time a development company has.

 

You pick out what you want, do that well, put in as much as possible before the money dries up, and then launch.

 

It's how MMO's work. Having an extra 7 years for more content, bug fixes, new features, is enourmous.

 

If you think the next game is going to launch with all the good features from EQ onward, with Voice Overs as well, think again. They'll do the same thing SWTOR did. They'll launch with as much as possible, and then hope they can patch fast enough to keep up.

 

Hey Dr. MMO. News flash, the average gamer don't give 2 ***** about all that. Here's two games, one has tons of features and no bugs, one has less features and tons of bugs, I wonder which they're going to choose.

 

Devs better deal with it, get on WoW of 2011's level or lose half you subs when the free month ends.

[lucasomega]

This had 10x WoW's budget.

 

WoW ~ 63 million

 

SWTOR ~ not 630 million

[monegames]

That's a terrible analogy and you know it.

 

You discredit how long WoW has on SWToR because, why? It's a huge reason (not to mention no competition at the time WoW launched).

 

There is only a finite of time a development company has.

 

You pick out what you want, do that well, put in as much as possible before the money dries up, and then launch.

 

It's how MMO's work. Having an extra 7 years for more content, bug fixes, new features, is enourmous.

 

If you think the next game is going to launch with all the good features from EQ onward, with Voice Overs as well, think again. They'll do the same thing SWTOR did. They'll launch with as much as possible, and then hope they can patch fast enough to keep up.

 

no they will almost certainly be able to port over most of the features that they already have in wow into "Titan" or have new features to replace them.

[DarkeGBF]

People say wow has so many fetures and swtor is bad because it does not have them... wow has had 7 years to improve upon its self. Give Swtor a chance and time to put in the things your ******* complaining about.... ¬.¬

 

WoW was not the first MMO nore was it original all WoW did was take the MMO template and improve upon it by removing things that were annoying (e.g crafting had a chance to fail) it did this with games Such as Ever Quest and so on.

 

SWTOR has done the same it has take the MMO TEMPLATE not copyed wow but taken the MMO TEMPLATE Which all MMO's use and removed useless stuff, ADDED its own stuff and improved upon existing stuff.

 

People need to remember WoW its self is a quoat un quoat "Clone" of the MMO's that came before it.

 

My final point. Who cares if it borrowed things from other games, it happens all the time in everything. just shut up, get on with the game and stop comparing it to WoW; an MMO thats long out lived its greatness WoW "died" along time ago and is just clinging onto life and dragging its self out to long. Its 7 gosh darn years old, its had its time at the top and has set a good standard for MMO's to go by and people should accept the fact its long out lived its awesomenes.

 

This post is so full of stupid I don't even know where to begin.

[CaptainHagbard]

WoW was _directly_ up against the sequel to the then-giant of MMOs. There was "no competition" because WoW was amazingly better.

 

That's debateable. WoW was easier and more accessible. Even then it was more "Fast Food" than EQ ever would become and it was the first really hyped MMO. But better? That's at least questionable.

 

WoW is not going to stop innovating, so SW:ToR is going to remain well behind the 8-ball until Titan drops and makes all this moot.

 

If by innovating, you mean implementing more get-stuff-quick-schemes like the cross-server-dungeon-finder, you might be right.

 

I played WoW from the beginning, I was there when they brought the warzones and you actually had to ride to the entrance to participate. I really loved that about MMOs: You needed to travel to places to get things done. I know that most WoW-players today want the quick and easy way, otherwise they would have quit the game, but that doesn't mean everyone likes it that way.

[Halbe]

Because it has to compete with what exists NOW. They had plenty of time to look at the past MMO experiences of plenty of "failed" AAA titles. This applies to every company that creates an MMO today, not just BW.

 

WoW charged 14.99 when it came out. That is not the same as saying they could charge 14.99 today with the exact same material. Swtor is charging 14.99 for the same content (2004), more or less (minus the voice over). When prices are the same... people will, and should, make a comparison. I do it with everything I buy. So do you. I do not care who "YOU" is. We all do it.

 

Things are not static. Just because WoW did it years ago does not mean everything from here to freaking eternity can do the same thing as WoW year-0 when they start out. I want good games. I do not want game after game that blows it because they think that WOW-2004 is the starting point to launch every single MMO.

 

Then why do players leave WoW? What's the motivation?

 

Why did players leave EQ? The one thing WoW did was make the game more casual friendly. At launch, it had less content than EQ, but it made it more friendly and quest driven.

 

What did SWToR do? Made it more story driven (a similar concept).

 

Online games are not you're typical product. It's entertainment. You pay for fun.

 

WoW had nothing innovative over EQ. It made it easier. It made it more casual. It made it more fun, yet didn't have half the content EQ had.

 

So why did it work?

[Andryah]

Hey Dr. MMO. News flash, the average gamer don't give 2 ***** about all that. Here's two games, one has tons of features and no bugs, one has less features and tons of bugs, I wonder which they're going to choose.

 

Devs better deal with it, get on WoW of 2011's level or lose half you subs when the free month ends.

 

ooo.. a lecture, complete with prognostications.

 

so when are you /quiting?

 

Or have you already?

 

Are you suggesting that WoW is bug free?? Really?? Seriously?

[lucasomega]

This post is so full of stupid I don't even know where to begin.

 

You began by making this comment that didn't add to the discussion.

[Halbe]

no they will almost certainly be able to port over most of the features that they already have in wow into "Titan" or have new features to replace them.

 

And what features are you speaking of?

[youwillburn]

Then why do players leave WoW? What's the motivation?

 

Why did players leave EQ? The one thing WoW did was make the game more casual friendly. At launch, it had less content than EQ, but it made it more friendly and quest driven.

 

What did SWToR do? Made it more story driven (a similar concept).

 

Online games are not you're typical product. It's entertainment. You pay for fun.

 

WoW had nothing innovative over EQ. It made it easier. It made it more casual. It made it more fun, yet didn't have half the content EQ had.

 

So why did it work?

 

Are you really asking?

[obZeNx]

So 7 years of innovation in WoW means that SWTOR needs 7 years since they couldn't be like "OH HEY THATS A REALLY *********** GOOD IDEA, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE THIS IN MY GAME LOL"

 

This AH is worse than any game I've ever played, and I've played a ton of korean f2p mmo's made in like 2000.

[youwillburn]

ooo.. a lecture, complete with prognostications.

 

so when are you /quiting?

 

Or have you already?

 

Are you suggesting that WoW is bug free?? Really?? Seriously?

 

Hey genius good job dodging the rest of my post to focus on the 2 words I said on bugs. Biodrones gonna drone. like I said

 

 

Devs better deal with it, get on WoW of 2011's level or lose half you subs when the free month ends.

 

Oh wait, that already happened.

[Halbe]

Are you really asking?

 

Because the context of the question was based on how much content was in at launch.

 

A new game vs. a mature game.

 

I know the answer. It was rhetorical. But it was to prove a point.

 

Content and Features <> Fun.

[X-rapture]

WoW really has little impact on my view as of this point. Sure WoW sets the standard for MMO equilibrium but if you want a reason to be mad at SW:TOR look no further than RIFT. If nothing else, Trion proved that launches can be very smooth with tons of content, little to no bugs, lots of communication and several patches a week to fine tune PvP and PvE balance.

 

I loved the leveling experience as much as any Star Wars geek. I watched every cut scene, did every bonus mission and was genuinely interested in the fate of my character. Imagine my surprise when i realized this game is literally broken at level 50.

[krookie]

ooo.. a lecture, complete with prognostications.

 

so when are you /quiting?

 

Or have you already?

 

Are you suggesting that WoW is bug free?? Really?? Seriously?

 

I don't get this argument. Since WoW has bugs, does that mean that it's OK for every other game to have bugs?

 

Who cares about WoW? SWTOR is in poor shape and WoW has nothing to do with it. Just because WoW had or has bugs or had a terrible launch (which it didn't on most servers except for the overpopulated ones) does it excuse BioWare from releasing SWTOR in this state? Does it excuse them from ignoring the beta testers? I was in one of the first testing squadrons: Hutta 01, back in August of 2010, and the issues that we commented on are still in the game now!

Edited January 21, 2012 by krookie

[Zorvan]

Massively Multiplayer Games are not First Person Shooters. Generally speaking they have a much vaster life time and thusly changes are implemented over time. It would be more apt to compare it to Fallout and then all the fallout expansions that got added.

 

They bought the license for Heroengine in 2006/07. That means at least 5 years of development.

 

That means they could have looked over, seen WoW 2007, started developing while still watching the mmo space as a whole for new stuff to add in as they went.

 

But they didn't. They couldn't even bother with what WoW was at 3 years of development.

 

And a game is a game. Whether mmo or singleplayer, you aim to make a modern game for the time you release it. You don't aim to release an 8 year old game as new.

[Andryah]

 

Oh wait, that already happened.

 

you guiting =/= half the population quiting.

 

Grossly misplaced sense of importance you are running there, IMO.

[youwillburn]

Because the context of the question was based on how much content was in at launch.

 

A new game vs. a mature game.

 

I know the answer. It was rhetorical. But it was to prove a point.

 

Content and Features <> Fun.

 

 

No what you don't realize is, WoW was a total fluke. It had nothing to do with content or features. It was them being at the right place at the right time. But for some reason all MMO devs think WoW got popular because of their magic MMO forumla so they just straight rip it off. The problem is, unless your game is sooo much more superior in everyway possible, you're going to fail, because you aren't at the right place at the right time. This game is arguably worse than WoW on content, balance and a bunch of other stuff, of course it's never going to compete.

[youwillburn]

you guiting =/= half the population quiting.

 

Grossly misplaced sense of importance you are running there, IMO.

 

Hmm lets see, 2 mil sold. Half is 1mil. You think they have 1 mil subs? You can quote me when the numbers come out.

 

 

once again

 

 

Biodrones gonna drone.

[dembonez]

Then why do players leave WoW? What's the motivation?

 

Why did players leave EQ? The one thing WoW did was make the game more casual friendly. At launch, it had less content than EQ, but it made it more friendly and quest driven.

 

What did SWToR do? Made it more story driven (a similar concept).

 

Online games are not you're typical product. It's entertainment. You pay for fun.

 

WoW had nothing innovative over EQ. It made it easier. It made it more casual. It made it more fun, yet didn't have half the content EQ had.

 

So why did it work?

 

I am not knocking them for their story at all. I even mentioned it. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WOW. That was just emphasis, not "yelling." I care what Swtor did for my enjoyment, not what other companies did and then what BW did in comparison. Everything has a base, whether Blizzard set that base or not, I don't care. There is a minimum standard in terms of features (not content, but features) that people look for.

 

I enjoy games, WoW included. I will not throw it under the bus to garner favor. I enjoy plenty of games. I exist NOW, the games I play, exist NOW. I do not care what a different company did long ago. I care how the games I buy provide me with the things I expect NOW. I will readily admit that there is a market, no matter how small, for certain non-features. It is a question of what a game is supposed to be and what it is not I guess.

[Halbe]

No what you don't realize is, WoW was a total fluke. It had nothing to do with content or features. It was them being at the right place at the right time. But for some reason all MMO devs think WoW got popular because of their magic MMO forumla so they just straight rip it off. The problem is, unless your game is sooo much more superior in everyway possible, you're going to fail, because you aren't at the right place at the right time. This game is arguably worse than WoW on content, balance and a bunch of other stuff, of course it's never going to compete.

 

I love you.

 

I've said it before. Look when EQ was big. Look at the percentage of homes with high speed internet.

 

Look at the time that WoW launched. Look at how that percentage increased around that time.

 

Lack of competition. Huge population increase.

[BushidoRaven]

WoW really has little impact on my view as of this point. Sure WoW sets the standard for MMO equilibrium but if you want a reason to be mad at SW:TOR look no further than RIFT. If nothing else, Trion proved that launches can be very smooth with tons of content, little to no bugs, lots of communication and several patches a week to fine tune PvP and PvE balance.

 

I loved the leveling experience as much as any Star Wars geek. I watched every cut scene, did every bonus mission and was genuinely interested in the fate of my character. Imagine my surprise when i realized this game is literally broken at level 50.

 

I have to agree. Wow set a standard, whether critics, fanboys, or haters agree or disagree regardless. WE ALL PLAYED WOW. It was great. We expected better then wow with swtor and instead got vanilla wow. Rift unfortunately proved literally launches can go amazing. The beta for rift was a blast. The beta for swtor was horrible. FPS issues. Lag. Disconnects. All the same problems we see everywhere today are the same problems we saw in beta. If rift can do it and get it right, then why did swtor do so horribly? It is 2012, and Bioware was a noob unfortunately at mmo's. Client's that stick through the dark age of imperial oppression are give founder's medals. Woohoo a title. Just imagine when they have an expansion. You gonna work through the same bugs they have now. PVP alone not to include illum is a sad and pitiful joke. I want Bioware to do better.

 

http://kotaku.com/361780/wow-killer-would-cost-a-billion Look at who said the quote. This guy speaks gaming to the industry. With a release like this on Bioware's part you think the there customer's are gonna wholeheartedly wait out for 3-6 months for bioware to fix itself?

 

The armor sets alone speak of an extreme lack of care.

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2011/12/swtor-level-50-gear-screenshots.html

 

You can say the same thing about wow. Extreme lack of care eventually and wow became a bore. The armor sets were all the same there too.

 

The argument goes both ways.

Edited January 21, 2012 by BushidoRaven

[Andryah]

Hmm lets see, 2 mil sold. Half is 1mil. You think they have 1 mil subs? You can quote me when the numbers come out

 

Quoting your meaningless, and unsubstantiated, prognostications would be a pointless exercies, other then to point out how silly you are.

 

You hate the game, yet here you are, spewing hate and condescension at other forum members.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Andryah

[Loekii]

People say wow has so many fetures and swtor is bad because it does not have them... wow has had 7 years to improve upon its self. Give Swtor a chance and time to put in the things your ******* complaining about.... ¬.¬

 

The same reason why Nvidia cannot use that excuse to release a graphics card of 2005 quality in 2012.

 

 

The level of quality of products improves year after year, because they build upon existing innovation and improvements.

 

Yesterday's Advanced Features, are tomorrows Standard features and eventually next weeks out dated features.

 

 

It is 2012, so you launch a product that can compete with products that currently exist in the 2012 market --- not the 2004 market.

[TonyIommi]

They bought the license for Heroengine in 2006/07. That means at least 5 years of development.

 

That means they could have looked over, seen WoW 2007, started developing while still watching the mmo space as a whole for new stuff to add in as they went.

 

But they didn't. They couldn't even bother with what WoW was at 3 years of development.

 

And a game is a game. Whether mmo or singleplayer, you aim to make a modern game for the time you release it. You don't aim to release an 8 year old game as new.

 

Yes they bought a licence for an engine. Then effectively reworked and finished it. False comparison is still false. It would be MUCH better to compare it to Rift which is only about a year old. Rift did indeed have more feature and polish but I'm not to worried about swtor. They're listening to people and adding the features as they go. If that is not sufficient enough for you well goodbye? It becomes a useless futile and unprofitable experience to debate with you.