SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[Voxtrot]

This is my point, the only thing that makes mmo basics mmo basics are games x,y,z, copying either feature a,b, and or c from mmo h even if they arent 100% needed at launch and not including features a,b and or c doesnt make an mmo unplayable. I will agree that there are some features id love to have in game but by no means do i think that the lack of them make the game unplayable. Actually I will agree, but the only feature so far that is a 100% needed like tomorrow feature is combat text/log. I can manage the AH it may not be....hell it may not be close to good but i CAN find what i am looking for. Not being able to sort vendor items is a PITA but i still can find what want. So far no lag, and responsive fun combat and great engaging story all my mmo pleasant surprises because i havent seen them in ALOT of mmos in the past.

 

The point is that playing the game should be enjoyable, not a chore. Anything that makes the game chore-like (aka a badly implemented AH) is bad design by default. And you definitely do not want things that are basic to playing the game to be badly implemented in the first month of release.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Voxtrot

[Forsbacka]

WoW has terrible world PvP and instanced PvP.

 

And yeah, WoW seems packed since everyone is sitting in same city and queueing for instances. That's all you do there, instance, capital, instance, capital (chat in guild chat while in capital). Huge MMO.... right.

 

Actually WoW PvP wasnt that bad. On some servers was some world PvP and instacned PvP, arenas and BG set bar on highest level on MMORPGs in balance and how t worked. So far on full PvP server i havent seen a single republic player while leveling. Instanced PvP is worse than any game ive seen and ive seen a lot in past 37 years. Abilities aint working cause of stupid delay and fights are based on whos combat system is buggin more. There aint any decent raid frmaes, you cant see whos targeting who and you have to tab or click on nameplates. I cant see any PvP oriented player playing PvP in this game seriously sicne its so bad, although there aint any serious PvP system in this game at all, no ladders, no rankings, nothing.

[ZoiN]

"Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget" "Bigger Budget"

 

SHUT UP WITH THAT CRAP!

..... most of that Budget went into the Amazing voice actors if you remove that cost then its probably had less money than WoW or any other mmo at design + wow had once again 7 years of 10,000-ish players play £10, $15, etc etc to fund their game Swtor has most of those At launch and removed the useless **** wow failed at.

 

There's quite a lot of bad voice actors in this game imo.

There are the good ones, but a lot of the bad ones as well >_<

Edited December 29, 2011 by ZoiN

[Absolvus]

As for my T.V. analogy if it has a dead pixel or two i CAN return it for a new one if u don't understand that i suggest going back to school

 

Like I said, depends on the manufacturer and the warranty. Some specify that you can have ie. 1 non-bright dead pixel and not be able to return it. Again you are misinformed if you think all cases lead to replacement.

[Doomsaga]

Like I said, depends on the manufacturer and the warranty. Some specify that you can have ie. 1 non-bright dead pixel and not be able to return it. Again you are misinformed if you think all cases lead to replacement.

 

ok its like goin to mcdonalds and buying a burger and you get it without any meat

[Absolvus]

The point is that playing the game should be enjoyable, not a chore. Anything that makes the game chore-like (aka a badly implemented AH) is bad design by default. And you definitely do not want things that are basic to playing the game to be badly implemented in the first month of release.

 

GTN works. Everything is inside the category it is supposed to be and thus quite easily found. Just needs to be searchable and it's already semi-decent. Not saying they shouldn't improve it, just that you can find everything you need easily.

 

I haven't had any real problems with it. Stuff seems to sell too. Now it's not WoW AH with auctioneer but I really didn't expect it to be that.

[CyberData]

No, not really. Seems like the other 5% is saying "these things will come in time."

 

And they will. I *promise* you the dev team KNOWS what features we're all clamoring for, but they're not Gods. They don't just snap their fingers and the code magically writes itself, integrates itself into their existing code with no flaws, or troubleshoot itself when it accidentally brakes something totally unrelated to the feature or crashes the server.

 

These things TAKE time. If you're complaining that the game is missing features from another game then that was on you as an intelligent consumer to read up and ensure said feature WAS in game at the time of purchase.

 

I want an LFG system, but NOT cross server LFG.

 

I want bracketed PvP so I don't get insta-gibbed by Lv50's. But I understand that at launch, while everyone is leveling...this isn't a HUGE concern.

 

I want some area in the game w/ an incentive to world pvp

 

I want a scaleable UI so my buttons don't have to be half an inch wide....

 

I want performance enchancements to the engine so it scales better and performs better on my laptop

 

I want cross-server warzones so I don't have to wait 20 minutes per match.

 

I want a combat log.

 

I want more mini games. Pazzack, Pod Racing....etc. A *reason* to enter a cantina and sit and take in the atmosphere. It doesn't all have to be about leveling up and phat lewts.

 

I want space combat to be more than a high definition iphone app.

 

I want more "civilian" cloth options. Shirts, shoes, pants, tops, dresses,...etc so players that WANT to roleplay have more tools to do so.

 

I want Chat Bubbles so I can visually contextualize when someone near me is speaking to me. So many times I killed the chat window in disgust to general, or a spoiler or whatever only to find some guy 4 feet away was asking me if I wanted to group for the quest mobs we both needed.

 

I want.

 

BUT! I'm not naive enough to expect EVERY feature I personally want to be in the game at launch. If you're that type of person, you need to hold off on this game for a few months/years and NEVER buy a launch mmo again. Because it's pretty obvious that at launch...no everything is gonna be in place.

 

There's NO WAY Blizzard could have made WoW @ deadline with all the awesome features they have now. It took TIME to develop, test, re-develop, re-test, implement, debug, balance tweak, perfect each feature. To now hold this team to such an unrealistic expectation is pretty much admittance that you know absolutely nothing about game development.

[Absolvus]

Actually WoW PvP wasnt that bad. On some servers was some world PvP and instacned PvP, arenas and BG set bar on highest level on MMORPGs in balance and how t worked. So far on full PvP server i havent seen a single republic player while leveling. Instanced PvP is worse than any game ive seen and ive seen a lot in past 37 years. Abilities aint working cause of stupid delay and fights are based on whos combat system is buggin more. There aint any decent raid frmaes, you cant see whos targeting who and you have to tab or click on nameplates. I cant see any PvP oriented player playing PvP in this game seriously sicne its so bad, although there aint any serious PvP system in this game at all, no ladders, no rankings, nothing.

 

WoW world PvP was fun until they implemented BG's. After that it was only occasionally fun when the World Bosses were in the game. They got rid of those too since apparently that was too much too and removed all incentive from it.

 

BG´s itself are mostly horrid. Most fun I have had is WSG with premade vs. premade but that too was actually stupid since it was not optimal for grinding honor ranks... And there are few 7 year old BG's in that game, they have added only few in later years and we are talking about 7 year old game!

 

Arena's are kinda good idea for formalized competitive PvP though. Team balance again being never-ending imbalance with monthly cookie cutter teams.

 

About other players, I don't know what level you are and note that if you are like me 40+ that most other players aren't. There are world PvP areas ie. in Tatooine but I'd bet most people are more intent on leveling atm. Depends on the server though and the faction balance. Seems most aggressive PvP kids flocked on Empire (evil is cool!!!11) and now moan that there are not enough aggressive republic PvP kids..

[Gunryu]

And they will. I *promise* you the dev team KNOWS what features we're all clamoring for, but they're not Gods. They don't just snap their fingers and the code magically writes itself, integrates itself into their existing code with no flaws, or troubleshoot itself when it accidentally brakes something totally unrelated to the feature or crashes the server.[/Quote]

 

Could have put it in the game before release, like we have been saying over and over and over they had 7 YEARS to see what people like and want.

[Overtone]

SWTOR is competing against 2011 WoW, not 2004 Wow.

 

That is pretty much it right there.

[Flyjedi]

I am sure this was said several times...

 

Because Bioware wants WoW players to spend their money here. Don't even pretend for a second they don't. Even if they didn't, they had all of the knowledge Blizzard learned over that 7 years, and should have used it. I could go on and on about the missing features and everything else that people are talking about elsewhere, but that should answer your question.

[Drakinor]

I don't think you're being any less naive of the way business work than you're foisting onto these two posters here when you disagree with paying customers reporting that a product they paid top dollar for didn't meet their full expectations upon getting it home and getting good look under the hood.

 

From a budget perspective, this game was given the largest budget in MMO history. Some people expected that would translate into a game that felt like the most MMO they'd ever gotten at release. Many people don't feel that way. I for one wish they'd spent more on the MMO part, and am voicing that here. That doesn't make me ignorant of how development works, nor does it make me objectively right. It's a forum for discussion.

 

Well, I was wrong for posting in somewhat of a bad mood, I'll admit that. While I can see your point of view as it is written constructively, and intelligently, I see alot of people who just seem to put their views into "Well WoW........" and that is not constructive, utterly annoying, and in all honesty makes them look like either trolls or idiots. I honestly have no problem with people disagreeing with me, or having opinions different than mine, BUT, if they cant voice it into an intelligent discussion I lose all respect. I get it some people have issues with the graphics, the PvP, the VO, the story etc. And that is 100% fine but as soon as you say "Oh, Well WoW has all these raids and battlegrounds, and arenas and etc" you just labeled yourself an idiot. Besides this game is brand new, I have launched my fair share of MMO's and they always have these complaints at launch, even the almighty WoW.

 

In time this game will add new features, improve on existing features, etc. Bear with the birth, get through the growing pains and boom youll have the game you really want. But to expect ANY MMO to be everything you want out of the box is only setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Reecelol]

Everything is Compared to the King

Happened Before WoW

Happened to WoW

and will happen after WoW

 

Funny thing is if TOR gets the crown everything will be compared to that, and be called TOR Clones

 

but it wont so thats one less thing to worry about

[Voxtrot]

GTN works. Everything is inside the category it is supposed to be and thus quite easily found. Just needs to be searchable and it's already semi-decent. Not saying they shouldn't improve it, just that you can find everything you need easily.

 

It works, but not well. The filters are not specific enough and the lack of a search function makes it grating at best to use the AH. Not mention that not every world has an AH on it, therefore you are stuck going back to the IF or wherever just to buy crap. It is one of the least elegant GTNs I have seen.

[Haristo]

People compare because they want SWTOR to be the best game it can be, and SWTOR is competing against 2011 WoW, not 2004 Wow.

 

but 2004 WoW is better than 2011 WoW...

 

I mean you can't compare the amount of content since it's SEVEN YEARS OLD. 2004 WoW had pretty much what SWTOR had right now... but at least it was good ****, awesome instances and great gameplay mechanics that has all been pissed on over the years with crappy patches. the best example being the actual ****** talent tree system.

 

what does SWTOR really and I mean... REALLY, lacks... Day/Night System and a LFG mechanic, which IMO should be similar to what Burning Crusade Had because it forced social interractions which is exactly what BioWare wants, while being a lobby for all who wanted to do something grouped. and for the Day/Night system... well... it may arrive later, but I think it must come. I can't wait to see

in the Old Republic.

[CyberData]

Could have put it in the game before release, like we have been saying over and over and over they had 7 YEARS to see what people like and want.

 

Again, you don't seem to have a fundamental grasp on how game design, coding, implementation, deadlines or budgeting work.

 

It's not as simple as "This is a good feature!" [pushes button] [Feature magically appears in-game]

 

There ARE time constraints. Things DO run over budget/over time and have to get priority over cool, but relatively minor features. Things they wanted to add to the game DID get cut and put on hold for post-launch development due to those time/budget constraints.

 

If you can't fathom how this all equates to having to wait post-launch for those features then you have unrealistic expectations.

[kanezfan]

Basically what you are saying is that you would be perfectly fine with buying a Ford Model T today because it compares just fine to a 1911 car and you're OK with giving it a hundred years to catch up to today's cars.

 

How do you defend that? You don't. I'm not saying this game doesn't have the potential to be great, but right now it isn't and as soon as the newness and shiny wears off, it will lose players, lots of players. Unless they pull a huge rabbit out of their hat. They shouldn't have released it for another year probably.

[thekent]

Bioware made some obvious mistakes and refused to learn from other MMO's.

WOW is a popular game how ever Blizzard made a lot of mistakes.

 

Just some things that have nothing to do with WOW at all.

 

Bioware released a game

 

- With a horrible UI that can't be modified.

 

- No Anti aliasing or High res textures

 

- Memory leaks

 

- Broken PVE bosses/loot

 

- Tons of minor bugs like Sith corruption/getting stuck

 

- Tons of crashes

 

- No combat log

 

- No macro's while stating they will add them so basically in six years they could not add a macro system.

 

- No options like mouse over healing/ putting auto camera off.

 

- Delay on instant casts which is game breaking.

 

 

 

Now some things Bioware could have learned from WOW

 

 

- Add on community made wow popular, controlling this community is needed.

 

- If you can't deliver a proper UI let the modding community do it ,less work and happy costumers.

 

- What a hot key based MMO needs (actually you can learn this from EQ).

 

- That wasting recourses on a in game voice chat is pointless

 

- How proper phasing should be done

 

- Mini games aren't appreciated when you don't fix glaring issues .

 

- Poor raid design will cost you subs.

 

- That costumers cares about looks, think of epic gear or character looks.

Blizzard uses ugly models and people don't like it

 

- Good technical support is important think of DX 11/ smooth FPS and such

 

- Mac support gives you a small group of loyal costumers.

 

- People like vanity stuff, like a barber/pets/achievements.

 

- Raiding keeps a MMO alive.

 

- Which Battle grounds are popular , hint Strand of the ancients is disliked.

 

- How to make combat smooth

 

- Maintenance during the EU down time is appreciated, taking servers down during peak time isn't.

 

- How to design creative quests

 

- How to design creative PVE encounters

 

 

Now you can't change all of these things mid development but some of these things are a given still they manage to do it wrong.

 

Bingo, Bioware are fighting for the same market as Blizzard are.

[Forsbacka]

Again, you don't seem to have a fundamental grasp on how game design, coding, implementation, deadlines or budgeting work.

 

It's not as simple as "This is a good feature!" [pushes button] [Feature magically appears in-game]

 

There ARE time constraints. Things DO run over budget/over time and have to get priority over cool, but relatively minor features. Things they wanted to add to the game DID get cut and put on hold for post-launch development due to those time/budget constraints.

 

If you can't fathom how this all equates to having to wait post-launch for those features then you have unrealistic expectations.

 

 

Well, what people are asking are not minor features, They are asking things that are standrad in any other game of this genre and that should be in the game from start. MMOs since WoW has shown one common thing, they all lost their momentum to break big, straight from start and im afraid that TOR will stay as small game after free month is gone cause it lacks some serious basic stuff and has very poor gameplay and graphics + tons of bugs.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Forsbacka

[Kirkkh]

Because wow is Coca Cola, this is like Shasta or something. Warcraft's buttery gameplay addicts want to play your game, but it's a stuttering mess. Reminiscent of gamers trying to play the Wii in it's launch. At this rate, it'll be gimmick waggles all-over. Ment for middle class mom's, or, well yeah middle class stereotype insert.

[Lazzerswords]

If the WoW fanboys really thought that game was as good as they claim it is then they wouldn't be here playing SWTOR, they never would've left WoW in the first place.

 

That's why I won't bother arguing with them anymore.

 

WoW sucks, that's why they're here. At the end of the day they defeat their own "point" every single time.

 

Am I on the WoW forums telling them their game sucks? No, I'm here playing SWTOR and/or discussing SWTOR on the SWTOR forums.

 

They defeated themselves just by being here.

 

Ill use your logic. Don't you love your mother? why are you playing swtor? obviously you'd be with her 24/7 right? you must not love her

[hulduet]

Because they're so much alike, yet different.

[kanezfan]

The bottom line is, for those of us who are not in love with swtor, we WANT it to succeed. We want it to be just as good and BETTER than WoW. Stop treating us like a pariah. Right now, the game is missing too many things. That's all we're saying. It plays like an old game. It needs big improvements. I'm not going to be back here to say I told you so in a year when the game is floundering, but I guarantee that if they just stay the course and act like everything will be fine just because it says Star Wars, then look what happened to SWG.

[Jahl]

Because they're morons?

 

Comparing a game that was released two weeks ago to a game that is seven years old, has had at least four paid expansions and numerous added content, bug fixes, and years of fine tuning is totally moronic. Which is why any Bioware Dev with more than three braincells is going to ignore any post that does compare the two.

 

The amount of drivel spouted on these forums by people who have played WoW is astounding.

[saethone]

Aside from the terrible spelling and grammar the OP is correct, WoW has had a much longer time to reach where it has than SWTOR has.

 

It doesn't mean that SWTOR's faults should be overlooked or brushed under the carpet by any means, but it does mean that people should have some patience.

 

People say "well if WoW has it now why can't SWTOR have it now?" The answer is simple. Time and money. WoW has had 7 years of between 1 and 10 million subscriptions funding a development team to continue to work on new features and content, and SWTOR was only even ANNOUNCED a few years ago. WoW had several years development time before release just as SWTOR had. SWTOR's launch state is ahead of WOW's launch state in many ways, and behind in few.

 

The game will catch up, they are no longer relying on investor funding and can release regular patches. The major bugs will be taken care of within the first few months. The major overhauls will come next - the UI, guilds, armory, etc. It will come - they know what we want. Now they have the resources to do it.