Bio Experiment. Run a swtor version between 2.0 and 3.0 and parallel to 5.0

[Totemdancer]

Ok, I know this weird idea, but the more I thought about it, the less weird it got.

 

First off let me start by saying this isn't about what is technically possible or about moving people from dead servers to others. It's just a thought bubble on what might happen to the game if they were to do this.

 

So currently a large amount, if not most of the games population isn't happy with 5.0. Especially the original people who played before "story time".

We've lost a lot of the old guard since the game took the story only direction and nearly the remainder of them since 5.0 came out.

 

So here's the idea. Run the game in parallel with an earlier version and see what happens. There are currently way to many servers for the game, especially with people leaving in droves. (FYI, not suggesting merges or anything here, just available space with servers). Eventually they will want to shut some.

But instead of doing that straight away, they could use a couple to run an older version on.

 

Imagine if you could go back to between 2.0 and 3.0 when the game still had some challenge in it, before the dark times... before the dumbing down, before level sync and OP companions.

 

How many people would actually want to play on those older versions of the game. Would it bring back any of the old players who left because of the changes. It wouldn't have new operations or flash points and most of the issues we used to QQ about back then would still be in the game.

 

It would be an interesting experiment for Bio to run. They could see if it brought people back, they could see if people preferred the old system of doing things, they could see if people preferred the game to be a bit more challenging.

 

We all know that when a game gets shut down, the die hard fans want emulators or third party servers to go play on. Even WoW has fans who prefer vanilla and there are lots of pop up vanilla servers around for those people.

This would be an opportunity for Bioware to skip that stage and setup their own before the game completely dies. They could still make money from subs.

 

If the experiment was in favour of the older style of the game, they would know which direction to take the current version.

[GalacticKegger]

Wishful thinking unfortunately. If they won't even commit the resources to expand and update the current game like other MMO devs do ... Edited February 23, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Rebamcfan]

I started playing pre 3.0 and things were different back then. Some things were definetely more challenging than others (for me, the leveling felt bit hard from time to times but it was manageable) but there were good times: The Flashpoints which you could run at specific level, that was so much fun to get to a group in same level as you and to be able to merge your abilities together in order to solve problems and enemies in same level as you.

Oh and the Comms/crystals, definetely loved those, made gearing for the rest of game easy when you could just buy mods/enchancements etc with alternative currency, instead of using credits. And of course you could buy endgame gear with them, something that I enjoyed enormously. I'm not much of an Operations player but I still liked how you could buy gear almost similar to that you gained in Operations. It made running FPs and other things fun too, when you cold collect comms/crystals for gear and other things.

Wishing you best of luck OP, the idea sounds good and fun

[midianlord]

It'll never happen even if technically possible and/or financially feasible.

 

Because to do so would first require that they admit they got it quite badly wrong...And BioWare can never, ever do wrong, because they're BioWare.

^That's^ what doomed this game from the start.

[Asheris]

It'll never happen even if technically possible and/or financially feasible.

 

Because to do so would first require that they admit they got it quite badly wrong...And BioWare can never, ever do wrong, because they're BioWare.

^That's^ what doomed this game from the start.

 

Seriously, did you see any big developer admit they got it wrong? Activision? Blizzard? Obsidian? Anyone?

 

Besides, what makes you think they did? It's a MMO, it's a dying breed that was overhyped for a few years and now people look up to other genres. Look around, all MMO's forums are full of "doomsday" threads, does it mean the devs did something wrong? Maybe, but 90% of the playerbase doesn't even go near forums and the complaining 5% just come here to vent while the other 5% just hangs out here, rolling their eyes on threads like these

[DarthWoad]

Besides, what makes you think they did? It's a MMO, it's a dying breed that was overhyped for a few years and now people look up to other genres

 

I have a different viewpoint on this. Maybe it's just because MMO's are becoming dull, with all these themepark rides and microtransations putting people off. The companies only seem to care about money now, more so than making a decent game...this game is a perfect example of that.

 

If SWG were to somehow come back with SWTOR graphics I'm sure the game would be more popular than this.

[midianlord]

Seriously, did you see any big developer admit they got it wrong? Activision? Blizzard? Obsidian? Anyone?

 

Besides, what makes you think they did? It's a MMO, it's a dying breed that was overhyped for a few years and now people look up to other genres. Look around, all MMO's forums are full of "doomsday" threads, does it mean the devs did something wrong? Maybe, but 90% of the playerbase doesn't even go near forums and the complaining 5% just come here to vent while the other 5% just hangs out here, rolling their eyes on threads like these

 

CCP Games did in 2011 during the Incarna débacle. Not without heavy cost --as in, 1 : 5 staff had to be axed eventually-- but the cost would have been far higher if they hadn't, and everyone bloody well knew it.

 

(There's a EuroGamer interview with CCP head H. Veigurr Péterrsen (Sp? I probably butchered that ) where he flat out admits that they bit off way more than they could chew, and fell in love with "Awesome" at the cost of EVE-Online's development-cadence, and their fan-base's goodwill...I haven't a link off-hand, but I'm sure Google will be your friend if you care to look.)

 

Real MMOs are not even remotely a dying breed, they've just stagnated because all the intellectually-imprisoned craven little money grubbers who own the big ones are still convinced they can un-seat WoW...by blindly copying WoW. And then they wonder why after less then six months, everybody's gone --back to WoW, or EVE, or FF XIV, typically-- and they have to go F2P. Then they go F2P which prolongs the agony for a bit, until all the pitiful little wallet-warriors realise that they really ain't getting a Hell of a lot for all their money, and they're no longer feeling so instantly gratified...

 

Everything that all these contemptibly shallow, un-creative, smugly mediocre ultra-casual-pandering, legalised RMT-grubbing games have done in the last 8-odd years is absolute anathaema to a real MMORPG.

 

I got news for you:

 

The last real MMORPGs were either EVE Online, early WoW, or maybe Final Fantasy XI. Maybe the SW: Gemu project if you count that as a real MMORPG (hey, it's functional!).

 

What we've had since are not real MMORPGs, but they keep re-visiting the same, tired old tropes without any of the immersive depth and community-fostering through interdependence that the old-school games still have.

 

The themepark/on-rails all-solo kiddie-mode MMO has had its time --and good flippin' riddance, say I-- but proper, deep virtual universes that require interdependence, perseverance, and commitment?

 

Those are poised to come back, massively (<--- Oh, look: Pun!) I think, and soon.

[mmmbuddah]

Seriously, did you see any big developer admit they got it wrong? Activision? Blizzard? Obsidian? Anyone?

 

Besides, what makes you think they did? It's a MMO, it's a dying breed that was overhyped for a few years and now people look up to other genres. Look around, all MMO's forums are full of "doomsday" threads, does it mean the devs did something wrong? Maybe, but 90% of the playerbase doesn't even go near forums and the complaining 5% just come here to vent while the other 5% just hangs out here, rolling their eyes on threads like these

 

Square Enix did. That is why they shut down FF14 for a year or so and remade it. Which is why it is one of the most popular and successful mmos atm.

[Totemdancer]

Seriously, did you see any big developer admit they got it wrong? Activision? Blizzard? Obsidian? Anyone?

 

Besides, what makes you think they did? It's a MMO, it's a dying breed that was overhyped for a few years and now people look up to other genres. Look around, all MMO's forums are full of "doomsday" threads, does it mean the devs did something wrong? Maybe, but 90% of the playerbase doesn't even go near forums and the complaining 5% just come here to vent while the other 5% just hangs out here, rolling their eyes on threads like these

 

I'm actually playing Star Citizen which will end up being what swtor should have been when it's finally had all the modules completed.

[midianlord]

Here's one I've very high hopes on.

 

No cash-shop, no insta-gratifiction kiddies allowed.

 

https://pantheonmmo.com/

[Clarian]

I know which version I would play (hint: not 5.x).

 

Just getting away from the stupid DvL pop-ups would be reason enough to go back to 3.x!

[ImmortalLowlife]

Back to a time when I had to use a companion I hated (stares at Quinn) because I needed a healer? When I had to play every stinking planetary quest just to be high enough in lvl to leave the planet & continue my story? When I had to deal with "ARRRRRRSPACEBARRRRRR!" because I've never done this FP, and I enjoy the cutscenes in FP's? Back when it took me and my limited play time OVER A YEAR to get a character to lvl 50?

 

 

Nahhhh.....I'm good where I'm at now.

 

If y'all want that, then by all means.... enjoy. But I'd rather run solo FP's with GodBot, level by playing class stories & the planetary quest I actually enjoyed, use the companion I like instead of the companion I need, and deal with Command Crate RGN (which doesn't affect me because I don't care about endgame anyway) than go back.

[Totemdancer]

Here's one I've very high hopes on.

 

No cash-shop, no insta-gratifiction kiddies allowed.

 

https://pantheonmmo.com/

 

It looks good, but I couldn't find a release date for it.

 

One thing I did like was this FAQ and answer to it.

Question -16.1 Many games struggle to create unique classes because of the balancing issues that PvP creates. How do you prevent PvP from affecting PvE?

Answer - The issue with balance and PvP vs PvE is not one that is that difficult to solve but it does require planning: you just use different formulas and data - you don't cross your streams. That way, if we need to make Paladins in PvE more powerful, we can do that without disrupting PvP balance. And vice versa.

 

What a simple idea

Gee... I wonder why the Bio guys haven't worked this out even though we've been saying it for 5 years

[TUXs]

We hardly have the players to support 5.X...running anything parallel to it would kill the game.

[GalacticKegger]

What a simple idea

Gee... I wonder why the Bio guys haven't worked this out even though we've been saying it for 5 years

They have barricaded themselves behind bullet proof glass (which took up most of their new content development funds) and are satisfied with doing just enough to save their jobs at this point. The only commitments BWA ever followed through on that were more than half-assed were while George Smith, Daniel Erickson and Dallas Dickinson were on watch. BWA's passion for this game essentially left when they got walked, and their yes men replacements are incompetent talking heads.

 

God I wish they would just stop with all the deception already, officially rebrand this game as a KOTOR III RPG and let Disney find a MMORPG developer who actually (a) knows what they are doing, and (b) cares.

Edited February 23, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Totemdancer]

We hardly have the players to support 5.X...running anything parallel to it would kill the game.

 

This is true and it kind of touches on something I hinted at. The way the game is going with people leaving, it won't be long till they are looking to shut it down. To be honest I'm not sure they can come back in any significant way from 5.0.

They lost what little remaining faith the legacy players had and have even gone about alienating the new players.

They would have to do something spectacular to right the game, but it would cost time and money of which they have little to none.

Once they shut down, those die hard fans will want a third party version or server to get their swtor fix. What I'm suggesting is an experiment to see if people prefer this system or the old one.

Since I posted this thread I've been talking to some old guild friends who have left and they said if Bioware were to setup a pre3.0 server they would come back.

I know Bioware will never do it for the reason you said, but if they did, they may actually make some extra money before they finally close the game and then they could even keep the old server version running with no support or updates and people could just sub if they wanted to play.

[GalacticKegger]

This is true and it kind of touches on something I hinted at. The way the game is going with people leaving, it won't be long till they are looking to shut it down. To be honest I'm not sure they can come back in any significant way from 5.0.

They lost what little remaining faith the legacy players had and have even gone about alienating the new players.

They would have to do something spectacular to right the game, but it would cost time and money of which they have little to none.

Once they shut down, those die hard fans will want a third party version or server to get their swtor fix. What I'm suggesting is an experiment to see if people prefer this system or the old one.

Since I posted this thread I've been talking to some old guild friends who have left and they said if Bioware were to setup a pre3.0 server they would come back.

I know Bioware will never do it for the reason you said, but if they did, they may actually make some extra money before they finally close the game and then they could even keep the old server version running with no support or updates and people could just sub if they wanted to play.

ooo ... ooo ... ooo ... ooo ... </no bones> .... the old system! Pre-Shadow of Revan (2.10) if you please. Edited February 23, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Andryah]

Got to let it go man. MMOs evolve over time. Sometimes in a way some players like, sometimes not. The industry is riddled with players upset about the changes made in an MMO... and has been like that for more then 15 years now.

 

If you cannot let it go, and adapt.. it's probably time to take a break. A lot of people took a break from this game in the past, and came back and found the game both refreshing, and fun again.

 

If this is about fixating on GC yet again.... you are being redundant.

[Storm-Cutter]

 

Real MMOs are not even remotely a dying breed, they've just stagnated because all the intellectually-imprisoned craven little money grubbers who own the big ones are still convinced they can un-seat WoW...by blindly copying WoW. And then they wonder why after less then six months, everybody's gone --back to WoW, or EVE, or FF XIV, typically-- and they have to go F2P. Then they go F2P which prolongs the agony for a bit, until all the pitiful little wallet-warriors realise that they really ain't getting a Hell of a lot for all their money, and they're no longer feeling so instantly gratified....

 

Millennials killed off traditional MMOs - and a fair bit of traditional gaming. - Since on their phones and tablets they can chuck money at power-up, hints, EZ mode, cosmetic flairs and the rest, they no longer appreciate the old-school pillars of gaming , namely: Balance, storytelling, exploration, group content, player-vs-player, shoot-'em up, flying by the seat of your pants, making choices over gear, teamwork and the like.

 

But I agree, splitting the population isn't going to help either, without the technical headaches that'd go with it. - And a sub is a sub, whether it is in current game or a carbon-copy of a previous revision. No extra money either way, even if the studio had a years dev time to throw at it.

[Andryah]

Millennials killed off traditional MMOs - and a fair bit of traditional gaming. - Since on their phones and tablets they can chuck money at power-up, hints, EZ mode, cosmetic flairs and the rest, they no longer appreciate the old-school pillars of gaming , namely: Balance, storytelling, exploration, group content, player-vs-player, shoot-'em up, flying by the seat of your pants, making choices over gear, teamwork and the like.

 

^^ There is a lot of truth to this.

 

And all the whining and gnashing of teeth by some over the direction MMOs are taking to try to stay relevant in a changing player base... are wasted energy.

 

But I agree, splitting the population isn't going to help either, without the technical headaches that'd go with it. - And a sub is a sub, whether it is in current game or a carbon-copy of a previous revision. No extra money either way, even if the studio had a years dev time to throw at it.

 

Yep. The suggested experiment here is not only fallacy, but it is disingenuous as it's real purpose is to try to demonstrate the studio=wrong and player=right through a coerced experiment. This too is wasted energy.

[Quraswren]

Here's one I've very high hopes on.

 

No cash-shop, no insta-gratifiction kiddies allowed.

 

https://pantheonmmo.com/

 

Looks interesting but it's well over a year away it seems. From the FAQ, They want to test each phase for nearly a year each and there not even in Pre-alpha yet. They would still have Alpha and then beta to go.

 

That games is a ways off unless something changes but it does look interesting.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Quraswren

[Totemdancer]

ooo ... ooo ... ooo ... ooo ... </no bones> .... the old system! Pre-Shadow of Revan (2.10) if you please.

 

Yes, I agree

[Totemdancer]

Looks interesting but it's well over a year away it seems. They want to test each phase for nearly a year and there not even in Pre-alpha yet. They would still have Alpha and then beta to go.

 

That games is a ways off unless something changes but it does look interesting.

 

Star Citizen is still technically in Alpha too, but they finish a module and move on to another part of the game. What they finish is pretty good and I dare say even better than some of the "finished" parts of Swtor, it definitely has less bugs in the parts they finish

I was completely blown away when I saw it and what the vision is for the game. It's basically everything this game should have been,

Check out the link - https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/getting-started

[Andryah]

Star Citizen is still technically in Alpha too, but they finish a module and move on to another part of the game. What they finish is pretty good and I dare say even better than some of the "finished" parts of Swtor, it definitely has less bugs in the parts they finish

I was completely blown away when I saw it and what the vision is for the game. It's basically everything this game should have been,

Check out the link - https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/getting-started

 

Star Citizen has more in common with EVE Online then with SWTOR. It is a first-person space combat, mining, exploration, and trading based game.

 

SWTOR is a character based ground game MMO, and always has been. Star Citizen is all about being space bound. Very different.

 

While I think Star Citizen is interesting, I have genuine concerns about it. These concerns are centered around Chris Roberts himself. It feels like Richard Garriot all over again. While he made a name for himself in the 80s and 90s, while working for other studios, his actual track record since going "freelance" multiple times since then is horrible. Star Citizen has been in development for more then 5 years and is still in alpha. It is under funded, and most funding is on the backs of players via crowd funding, which is likely the reasons for slow development.

 

It is a very tenuous time for Star Citizen and Cloud Imperium Games studio. A lot of independent MMOs get to this point and then crumble as they head through beta and toward release. The industry is littered with MMOs that followed the indy-path and failed to ever launch successfully. There is absolutely no doubt that Star Citizen is a labor of love fro Crhis Roberts, but again.. the industry is littered with corpses of "labors of love".

 

I am not trying to discourage players interested in Star Citizen. I my self am interested in it. But I do encourage people to be objectively cautious toward this particular MMO. Personally, I will wait until it actually releases before making any effort to embrace it. Too many horror stories over the years with indy-studio MMO productions.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Andryah

[Totemdancer]

Star Citizen has more in common with EVE Online then with SWTOR. It is a first-person space combat, mining, exploration, and trading based game.

 

SWTOR is a character based ground game MMO, and always has been. Star Citizen is all about being space bound. Very different.

 

While I think Star Citizen is interesting, I have genuine concerns about it. These concerns are centered around Chris Roberts himself. It feels like Richard Garriot all over again. While he made a name for himself in the 80s and 90s, while working for other studios, his actual track record since going "freelance" multiple times since then is horrible. Star Citizen has been in development for more then 5 years and is still in alpha. It is under funded, and most funding is on the backs of players via crowd funding, which is likely the reasons for slow development.

 

It is a very tenuous time for Star Citizen and Cloud Imperium Games studio. A lot of independent MMOs get to this point and then crumble as they head through beta and toward release. The industry is littered with MMOs that followed the indy-path and failed to ever launch successfully. There is absolutely no doubt that Star Citizen is a labor of love fro Crhis Roberts, but again.. the industry is littered with corpses of "labors of love".

 

I am not trying to discourage players interested in Star Citizen. I my self am interested in it. But I do encourage people to be objectively cautious toward this particular MMO. Personally, I will wait until it actually releases before making any effort to embrace it. Too many horror stories over the years with indy-studio MMO productions.

 

Guess you didn't do your research about the game. You better go back and look at what has been added, what will be added and what the direction is.

Plus, Chris is a legend in his own undies.