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How would YOU design an expansion?


Zasszz

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We have seen the 8 class stories and planet stories and it was very nice. I didnt like makeb at first but I warmed up to it. I did revan I few times but its stretching toooooo long. Ziost was short or long, depending if you did the bonus stuff or not. Kotfe had the hightest/lowest ups and downs so far and people lost if over 5min of walker experience in a very loooooong chapter in Kotet. Loved to play the emperor at the end, just didnt like the ability cooldowns or odd and useless teleport spells.

 

If I could design an expansion, first of all the story wouldnt just be about an nearly all powerfull and overwhelming enemy. Maybe just stick to the lore of the star wars universe and have just another balanced battle against our opposing faction with the usual infighting among the sitz. And we get to push people around in cutscenes, not like always the other way around. At least one new flashpoint must be involved, liked that part about rishi. Add a space mission perhaps. Make it a journey instead of moving to random places around the galaxy. And most importantly, it can be done as a group!

 

8 new class stories about the new expansion would be great. Not one fits all nonsense.

 

Your turn.

 

Edit:

I would fix a buttload of bugs that have been existing for over 4 years now with a pre-patch that includes a pre-event for the coming expansion to tune people for it.

I might be in for adding new races for players. Devaronians, voss, wookie, the orange guys with the breathing mask (mostly in jedi story)...

Edited by Zasszz
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LOL.. I sure hope you set up enough crazy arm chairs (and popcorn) for this thread... because they are going to be needed.

 

 

Just don't expect any sort of consensus. Most players cannot even agree with any consensus on what they like or dislike in an MMO.

Edited by Andryah
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Just don't expect any sort of consensus. Most players cannot even agree with any consensus on what they like or dislike in an MMO.

It would be boring if everyone would want the same. Its the diversity that makes games good for giving players the choice how they play the available content without forcing them in some way like the pvp alliance alert.

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Id make an expansion that focuses on the original companions and relationships. More importantly Lineage. We have a way in game to assign people as friends rivals or offspring but it makes zero difference. I would have an expansion expand upon that ;p Also it would enrich the current vanilla areas of the game by adding content there. I'll give you a few examples of what I envisioned.

My first toon was an Imperial Warrior - LOVED the story...When I played through some of the other stories I came across the Emperor's Wrath. How epic would it have been if the Emperor's Wrath was MY warrior character? And I then had to make choices against him etc... I don't see how this couldn't be done by using your character load and appearance ingame.

Another example for Lineage etc would involve mentoring or passing on skills to another character. So in time you would gain the ability to learn a skill from another class or specialty of the same class. This is sort of in game through heroic skills but was poorly done in my opinion. If I made a Jedi warrior and then came across my father in the story who was maybe the Emperor's Wrath and maybe I defeated him. Maybe I could learn a trait or preferably a permanent skill from them. As if I were "learning" from that character. The same could be said from mentoring a "friend" through association etc. But when you make the decisions and link a person they would need to be permanent etc. I personally would have loved for characters to age and grow to a point where they would even die. If you allowed your character to die maybe they could pass on more knowledge to an Alt through association and allow the next of kin to be even stronger. This could allow a lot of customization and replayability.

 

Another idea would be to add a "Galactic: Expansion." It would focus on Galactic Starfighter and Galactic Strongholds. It would add more for guilds and community play. On the Starfighter front it would incorporate GSF into the conquest theme. Conquest would be revamped. Housing would no longer give conquest bonuses. Conquest should be a fight for a specific planet at any 1 time and it should be fought on 2 fronts: space and planetary. Planetary combat would be more "like" open world pvp that would be instanced and accessible for all. So my example here would be imagine the Conquest planet of the week is Hoth. You que up for GSF:Conquest solo or grouped. You fight over/on that planet. Same GSF rules and modes you just collect points for your guild in this mode. As for planetary fighting imagine a star wars Hoth themed Alterac Valley from WoW. If you haven't played it you have a map themed like the planet you fight for in this case Hoth. Its instanced and contains landmarks and bosses you would fight against and defend for eventually making it to the final base/boss and winning the map. All the while facing opposite faction harassment or defenses similar to the current Warzone Voidstar. Except this concept would be much more open and involved offering more strategy and small group skirmish. More akin to possibly even Dark Age of Camelot styled rvr.

Galactic Strongholds would be updated as well and include more social aspected gameplay. A good example is by introducing a system to "flag or tag" your stronghold for various "activities." I would introduce a housing event that took place monthly similar to the other events. It would have all the npc flair that something like bounty week currently has. It would include various social activities that would focus on a fun factor. A few ideas for improving the social activities would be different types of parties such as : game night, big game hunt and main event brawl.

Game night includes a new ingame trading card game that could only be played in strongholds. Upon entering a stronghold flagged as "Game Night" you would be given a pack of digital trading cards to help you play in the event. You would sit at a table (interactive decoration) and play with others to win cool prizes during the event or unlock prizes through achievement. Id make the poker / sabacc tables interactive and work in similar fashion. Slot Machines would award cards for this game etc. Big Game Hunt would be a party formed to hunt ingame mobs for decorations related to the event. These mobs would range from raid bosses to rare pve spawns and upon finishing the hunt everyone in party would receive the decorations among other rewards. Main Event Brawl would be pvp oriented and more or less be duels sanctioned within a stronghold. More than likely rewards would just be related to completing various tasks related to pvp while in a housing zone such as dueling x number of times, winning x number of duels etc. We could even take it as far as not being able to use styles or weapons and equiping oversized boxing gloves etc for the brawl. Maybe even automatically have a character who zones into the house have them on and a new bar pops up with preset skills and goofy taunts only useable from that bar. I dunno but it would be funny to watch and that's kind of the point. People could observe and be entertained. You could have last man standing challenge etc. i dunno~

The main purpose of the event would be to socialize with others who are into decorating/housing and allowing more fun ways to use the strongholds. And most importantly showcase your stronghold ;p I'd also find a way to vote if you "liked" a stronghold and at the end of the event you would get bonus rewards based on how many "likes" you got. These rewards would be strictly cosmetic and housing / decoration related.

 

Anyway - just a few ideas before i head out to the super bowl party ;p fun thread. the bottom line here is that if we can envision it then it could be a reality in game. Whether or not BW would use any resources to give the player base what it wants is something totally different.

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I think I would have combined elements of all 3 expansions. I would have kept the Eternal Empire as an enemy, except for 2 details:

 

 

 

1/ I would not have made Valkorion the Sith Emperor. He either would have been a powerful Force user on his own, or flat out removed the family element and made him the Emperor with a new army and underlings insttead of kids.

2/ I would have had the story play out as defending the galaxy rather than having Zakuul conquer and your character leading a rebellion.

 

 

 

 

I would have had at least 2 faction-specific stories like RotHC, but ideally one story for every class. Each class would have a different role to play in the defeat of Zakuul. Then one final chapter/Flashpoint/Operation for all classes/factions in which you confront the Big Bad once and for all.

 

I like the way SoR intertwined Flashpoints and Operations into the story, and I definitely would've kept that element. Some could've been faction specific like Incursion and Assault, some could be all-encompassing like Blood Hunt and Rakata.

 

Chapters.... I'm on the fence about. Cutscene-wise it plays really well, it adds a dramatic element to the story telling. But gameplay-wise it's irrelevant if you release all content at once, which I would do.

 

I like variety so I'd have things like the dreaded walker segments, but implemented WAY better. I'd maybe make them optional.

 

I'd leave companions alone but add in new side missions for each of them, kind of the way Alliance Alerts play out, just to have some element of sidequesting.

Edited by eriksarcasm
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The way FF14 does. Tons of content.

 

FF14's last expansion for example:

 

New raids, new dungeons, new mini games, new main story, new side quests(FF14 has signature side quests with storylines that have been going for awhile), new pvp modes and maps, ten new levels, new gear/gear tokens, new areas(massive maps to explore with new dalies), flying, new mounts, new glamour, new housing, new hunts and much more I'll probably remember after I post this.

 

I'd like SWTOR expansions to be big and competitive with other AAA MMO expansions. I'd like to be hyped about a SWTOR expansion. Most of all I'd like it to cater to all play styles so there's no more "story players vs op players vs pvp players" fighting for content.

Edited by Radzkie
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Most of all I'd like it to cater to all play styles so there's no more "story players vs op players vs pvp players" fighting for content.

But those are necessarily the main groups in MMOs. You can be all of the above, two of the above or just one of them. You seem to imply that there is a way to unite them in some way. Please elaborate.

Edited by Zasszz
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1-2 new ops

2-3 new flash points

1-2 new pvp maps

1 new daily area

one planet worth of class story content (that's like 2-4 quests per class)

 

all incorporated on a new planet or new area of an existing planet.

 

something new. (strongholds, space combat for example)

 

mid cycle content patch that add onto the basic stuff. another ops, flash point etc.

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But those are necessarily the main groups in MMOs. You can be all of the above, two of the above or just one of them. You seem to imply that there is a way to unite them in some way. Please elaborate.

 

I am all of the above so I know that. ;P

 

You can "unite" them all by not ignoring one of the groups for two+ years. By making content for all of the groups consistently.

Edited by Radzkie
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I think I would have combined elements of all 3 expansions. I would have kept the Eternal Empire as an enemy, except for 2 details:

 

 

 

1/ I would not have made Valkorion the Sith Emperor. He either would have been a powerful Force user on his own, or flat out removed the family element and made him the Emperor with a new army and underlings insttead of kids.

2/ I would have had the story play out as defending the galaxy rather than having Zakuul conquer and your character leading a rebellion.

 

 

 

 

I would have had at least 2 faction-specific stories like RotHC, but ideally one story for every class. Each class would have a different role to play in the defeat of Zakuul. Then one final chapter/Flashpoint/Operation for all classes/factions in which you confront the Big Bad once and for all.

 

I like the way SoR intertwined Flashpoints and Operations into the story, and I definitely would've kept that element. Some could've been faction specific like Incursion and Assault, some could be all-encompassing like Blood Hunt and Rakata.

 

Chapters.... I'm on the fence about. Cutscene-wise it plays really well, it adds a dramatic element to the story telling. But gameplay-wise it's irrelevant if you release all content at once, which I would do.

 

I like variety so I'd have things like the dreaded walker segments, but implemented WAY better. I'd maybe make them optional.

 

I'd leave companions alone but add in new side missions for each of them, kind of the way Alliance Alerts play out, just to have some element of sidequesting.

 

I'd have done THIS exactly! :eek::D

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This is what I'd do...class-specific dailies/weeklies. I'd create an expansion that focuses on unique new class-based special events like the bounty hunter event.

 

Contraband smuggling for smugglers. Military operations for troopers. Jedi extermination for warriors. Political assassinations for imperial agents. Dark council missions for inquisitors. Padawan training for Jedi Knights. Diplomacy missions for consulars.

 

This is the kind of "expanding" that SWTOR needs, in my opinion. Repeatable MMO content that allows us to play our toons IN CHARACTER by tackling activities specifically connected to class lore.

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1-2 new ops

2-3 new flash points

1-2 new pvp maps

1 new daily area

one planet worth of class story content (that's like 2-4 quests per class)

 

all incorporated on a new planet or new area of an existing planet.

 

something new. (strongholds, space combat for example)

 

mid cycle content patch that add onto the basic stuff. another ops, flash point etc.

 

I would agree with this. Unfortunately its hard to say what we would do because we dont know what their budget is. Since we have not had a true expansion which cost $ on top of your subscription I dont think we will see this type of expansion again. I think we will continue to see the same amount of content we did see the past two years. I wouldnt really count on anything more.

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I would not try to design an expansion in the classic MMO sense. Between the developer resources available, and a pricing scheme where the price of an expansion is: free with subscription, I don't think a classic type expansion is even remotely viable.

 

The challenge is for SWTOR is to retain, regain, or recruit players on a very small and strained developer resource base. They can do all of the standard MMO features, but at a slow trickle, and the quality is solidly mediocre, except for story content, which is modestly above average.

 

Viewing story content as the core product, the only place where there's any hope of really differentiating from competitors:

 

Aim for 1.5 to 2 story chapters every 3 months as a release rate.

 

Sit design, engineering, and story staff down, and work on story structure from a mechanical point of view. As a matter of resources the story has to converge at certain nodes, and the amount of cutscene and voice acting for divergence between nodes can't get out of hand, but if well organized it would probably be able to get more than 2 significant storylines out of story content. It'd be nice to get 6 to 8, but 3 to 4 should be a minimum. Cinematic storytelling is all very well, but a game is interactive, and calls for more of a choose your own adventure approach than a single straight line narrative. It's a place where doing better is probably within reason, and as the game's "magnet content," it's fairly important. In particular, look at having story be "wider" with more parallel tracks in some places (preferably with fairly light voice, cutscene, and choices-that-matterTM) and "narrower" with fewer parallel tracks (but more voice, cutscene, and important choices), in other places. Or in other words, use developmentally "cheap" story content to give players a sense of choice and agency in the storyline, and hang the expensive cosmetic bits around the "nodes" where the story has to converge in order to keep the game design manageable.

 

I'd also make an effort if feasible, to flesh out companion participation in main line story content, at least as far as regaining the companions that haven't come back yet.

 

With a base output of story content, the next major issue I'd look at is dealing with endgame player retention. In this area I'd look at the impression players have of indefinite content droughts in some areas, and increasing long term replay value for content that's going to dribble out very, very slowly.

 

I'd communicate with the players, and outline a rotation of endgame content production. The idea being that every 2 to 3 months an area of endgame content gets some sort of output. The output realistically might not be all that much. For example, a single Ops boss for one 2 month period, a 4 v. 4 PvP arena or light class balance pass the next, fixing major GSF bugs the next period, then a flashpoint, then a small daily area or set of quests. The point being to let players know that their favorite areas of content will get attention in turn, to give them some idea of when that turn will be, and to stick to delivering varied content over the course of a year.

 

In terms of design, I'd be asking the designers to think not just about what makes content fun to play through on the first few successful playthroughs, but also to consider how to keep it interesting on 200th or 400th playthrough. If the development resources are only enough to do 1/4 to 1/2 op per year, then that op content needs to have a lot more longevity than past ops have had, if at all possible. The same for other categories of endgame content.

 

PvE in SWTOR has traditionally been very predictable, but it doesn't strictly have to be. A boss could run to choose one of three weapons, each of which makes the encounter significantly different. An encounter could be any of several bosses, and which boss you draw could affect the next encounter in some way. Unforeseen consequences in terms of impossibly difficult, buggy, or near exploit level ease are more likely if you approach PvE design this way, but compared to one static Op in three years, it's probably the lesser evil.

 

What's outlined above is probably stretching SWTOR's development resources to the breaking point if not past, but on top of that I'd work on some revision of GC so that gearing doesn't feel like an extended punishment.

 

Ideally, as the endgame content installments came out participating in the most recent batch of content gives some reward for other areas of the game. So if a player who really wanted a batch of PvP content sees that the current batch is Ops content, at the very least there's some reward from doing that Ops content that will be useful for them when the next batch of PvP content hits. Of course, this will bring whines about "forced to do content I hate," but if they're in the Ops for that reward instead of logged out and playing solitaire, then there's a certain lack of credibility both on the forced and on the hate.

 

On the whole, not all that different than what Bioware currently seems to be trying to do, but with better communication, actually delivering varied endgame content instead of merely suggesting that it might eventually happen, and more effort put into game design to make story content more engaging and give endgame content more longevity in terms of numbers of playthroughs before becoming stale.

 

Not wildly impressive, but if you have limited resources you have limited resources and can only try to make the best of them.

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I would not try to design an expansion in the classic MMO sense. Between the developer resources available, and a pricing scheme where the price of an expansion is: free with subscription, I don't think a classic type expansion is even remotely viable.

 

The challenge is for SWTOR is to retain, regain, or recruit players on a very small and strained developer resource base. They can do all of the standard MMO features, but at a slow trickle, and the quality is solidly mediocre, except for story content, which is modestly above average.

 

Viewing story content as the core product, the only place where there's any hope of really differentiating from competitors:

 

Aim for 1.5 to 2 story chapters every 3 months as a release rate.

 

Sit design, engineering, and story staff down, and work on story structure from a mechanical point of view. As a matter of resources the story has to converge at certain nodes, and the amount of cutscene and voice acting for divergence between nodes can't get out of hand, but if well organized it would probably be able to get more than 2 significant storylines out of story content. It'd be nice to get 6 to 8, but 3 to 4 should be a minimum. Cinematic storytelling is all very well, but a game is interactive, and calls for more of a choose your own adventure approach than a single straight line narrative. It's a place where doing better is probably within reason, and as the game's "magnet content," it's fairly important. In particular, look at having story be "wider" with more parallel tracks in some places (preferably with fairly light voice, cutscene, and choices-that-matterTM) and "narrower" with fewer parallel tracks (but more voice, cutscene, and important choices), in other places. Or in other words, use developmentally "cheap" story content to give players a sense of choice and agency in the storyline, and hang the expensive cosmetic bits around the "nodes" where the story has to converge in order to keep the game design manageable.

 

I'd also make an effort if feasible, to flesh out companion participation in main line story content, at least as far as regaining the companions that haven't come back yet.

 

With a base output of story content, the next major issue I'd look at is dealing with endgame player retention. In this area I'd look at the impression players have of indefinite content droughts in some areas, and increasing long term replay value for content that's going to dribble out very, very slowly.

 

I'd communicate with the players, and outline a rotation of endgame content production. The idea being that every 2 to 3 months an area of endgame content gets some sort of output. The output realistically might not be all that much. For example, a single Ops boss for one 2 month period, a 4 v. 4 PvP arena or light class balance pass the next, fixing major GSF bugs the next period, then a flashpoint, then a small daily area or set of quests. The point being to let players know that their favorite areas of content will get attention in turn, to give them some idea of when that turn will be, and to stick to delivering varied content over the course of a year.

 

In terms of design, I'd be asking the designers to think not just about what makes content fun to play through on the first few successful playthroughs, but also to consider how to keep it interesting on 200th or 400th playthrough. If the development resources are only enough to do 1/4 to 1/2 op per year, then that op content needs to have a lot more longevity than past ops have had, if at all possible. The same for other categories of endgame content.

 

PvE in SWTOR has traditionally been very predictable, but it doesn't strictly have to be. A boss could run to choose one of three weapons, each of which makes the encounter significantly different. An encounter could be any of several bosses, and which boss you draw could affect the next encounter in some way. Unforeseen consequences in terms of impossibly difficult, buggy, or near exploit level ease are more likely if you approach PvE design this way, but compared to one static Op in three years, it's probably the lesser evil.

 

What's outlined above is probably stretching SWTOR's development resources to the breaking point if not past, but on top of that I'd work on some revision of GC so that gearing doesn't feel like an extended punishment.

 

Ideally, as the endgame content installments came out participating in the most recent batch of content gives some reward for other areas of the game. So if a player who really wanted a batch of PvP content sees that the current batch is Ops content, at the very least there's some reward from doing that Ops content that will be useful for them when the next batch of PvP content hits. Of course, this will bring whines about "forced to do content I hate," but if they're in the Ops for that reward instead of logged out and playing solitaire, then there's a certain lack of credibility both on the forced and on the hate.

 

On the whole, not all that different than what Bioware currently seems to be trying to do, but with better communication, actually delivering varied endgame content instead of merely suggesting that it might eventually happen, and more effort put into game design to make story content more engaging and give endgame content more longevity in terms of numbers of playthroughs before becoming stale.

 

Not wildly impressive, but if you have limited resources you have limited resources and can only try to make the best of them.

 

Very well thought out. I especially like the part in bold.

 

I'd have done THIS exactly! :eek::D

 

Thanks! ^5

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Maximum amount of content as quickly as possible:

 

- I'd reskin 4 Ops. Use bosses from EC and Uprisings for the templates, use existing maps but reskin everything and change player pathing to make it feel "new"

- I'd reskin 4 WZ's using the same philosophy. If it was indoors, make it outdoors. If they were turrets, make them shields. If it was day, make it night.

- I'd reskin GSF maps. Makeb would be easy to convert and keep it feeling "new". DM maps just need new 'stuff' to fly around.

 

No story...just end game activities.

Edited by TUXs
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But those are necessarily the main groups in MMOs. You can be all of the above, two of the above or just one of them. You seem to imply that there is a way to unite them in some way. Please elaborate.

Stating how to do it is the easy part. You set a theme for your expansion. That theme is developed by the lore and art teams. For example compare the environments and behaviors seen on Rishi, Yavin IV, pre/post Ziost, Zakuul, Iokath, etc. The output of those teams are used by the story and design teams to develop a storyline and group content.

 

Yes it's a lot of work. There is no cheap or easy way to do this. Themeparks thrive on timely content releases. Contrary to the common self appointed defender claim that "it's impossible to develop content fast enough" there are several non-WoW MMO's that do indeed meet or exceed their players' appetites.

 

To partially answer the question you posed in the OP: I'd first ensure that I was properly funded. If despite my best efforts that bucket was unreasonably small then I would tell the playerbase and hand in my resignation.

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Contrary to the common self appointed defender claim that "it's impossible to develop content fast enough" there are several non-WoW MMO's that do indeed meet or exceed their players' appetites.

 

Name them please, and substantiate why.

 

Keep in mind.. one persons "meet" or "exceed" =/= another persons... so this will be a uphill challenge for you. :)

 

If everyone played the same way, at the same pace, and with the same expectations, you would have a good point here. But as you can see.. your baseline for measuring (the people playing) is not a simple equation to meet.

 

See.. some players never run out of things to do in an MMO.. even if the pace of new content is lacking by commercial norms and standards. Others can and will binge consume and discard quickly in the absence of more piles to binge on. And of course there is a full range of players in between. MMOs are the antithesis of "one size fits all".

 

It is the bingers that cannot be satisfied, ever.. no matter the MMO. They rotate through an ongoing series of virtual infatuations of one MMO after another... always discarding and verbally trashing the last "girlfriend" in favor of the new one. I call these players the "serial MMO infatuators" and they are free to play as they like, but they are generally disruptive to some degree because they also think everyone should play their way. In my guild.. we in fact have ways to screen for this trait and we deny memberships over it, because we have found over time that they are disruptive to guild stability and growth. And I am sure they can find other suitable guilds with like minded people for a few months until they all binge on the salt block of dissatisfaction and /group_rage_quit.

Edited by Andryah
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Been back for a few months now, but only just yesterday got around to my first playthrough of Shadow Of Revan. Not anywhere near done yet, but Rishi is a nice example of an expansion, at least so far. Big, proper place, with unique look. Some new mechanics involved as well (the salvage reclamation droid missions AKA "the Claw!" for example) and right now a decent addition to my character's story which is a departure, but not handled in a way that seems out of character or detracting from the earlier game.

 

Of course, as a founder, there are other past expansions I have seen become just a standard, if in some cases kind of ignored, part of the game. Strongholds are a huge thing for me, and upon returning to actively playing game really appreciated it. On the other hand there's Galactic Starfighter, which I've made use of once or twice maybe. But not every new thing is going to be a hit with every person. People have been craving a racing aspect to the game for ages now, so I'd try and find room for Swoop Racing, even just as KOTOR did it, where you race single player, and compare times with other players. Leave real-time, potentially disastrous multiplayer racing for the eventual Pod-Race expansion.

 

Whilst we're at it with things from KOTOR...Pazak. Heck, given these two, I guess I'd do something like an expansion to Coruscant, or Nar Shadda, or maybe a new area similar to the two, where we can gamble and race and slip credits into the holographic garters of alien dancing girls. "wanna buy some Death Sticks?"

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Maximum amount of content as quickly as possible:

 

- I'd reskin 4 Ops. Use bosses from EC and Uprisings for the templates, use existing maps but reskin everything and change player pathing to make it feel "new"

- I'd reskin 4 WZ's using the same philosophy. If it was indoors, make it outdoors. If they were turrets, make them shields. If it was day, make it night.

- I'd reskin GSF maps. Makeb would be easy to convert and keep it feeling "new". DM maps just need new 'stuff' to fly around.

 

No story...just end game activities.

Interesting view, though guess it would need a couple of tweaking to make them more interesting and well that would not be a Xpack.

 

Still in regards of quick wins I'd suggest publishing the existing OP with a 4 players mode and at some point a 2 player or even single player mode. Releasing one or two per month as appetizer.

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