Galactic Command Gearing Roadmap - Coming This Week

[MeNaCe-NZ]

OK, first - I'm not clear on why I should be un-subbing. Because I am recommending a change that is outside the scope of what you suspect is possible?

 

Why?

 

I fall squarely into the camp of "slowly getting better" = becoming a different level of suck. IMO, it still sucks, and the direction they are going - "tuning" and "monitoring" - will not get them to "good". It will keep them in suck.

 

Game sucks in your eyes...

 

My entire point is that there is no sufficient improvement possible. I think I've been as clear as can be on this.

 

And it can't get better via improvement? So why bother playing? Just unsub. Why hang around something that ucks and can't manage to unsuck?

 

And aren't you the same guy that posted the "Worst business model" thread?

 

Sure was and I still stand behind that view of 2016. Since 5.2 though they've shown they are listening to what we want - positive change. Tweaks to GC remain to be seen - as it stands CURRENTLY it's still not good enough but I'm not going to sit there and say "no, they can't fix it, it sucks" before they've even continued down that path.

 

It comes back to the point of if you truly feel that way - why stick around? Come back when it's more to your liking or never if it never gets that way. Vote with your wallet otherwise you are just supporting the metrics that encourage 5.0 - the only reason we're probably getting any head way is from those that DID unsub. If no one did that and we had 2015/2016 numbers for December/Jan I doubt we'd be seeing any changes at all. It would still be holiday mode.

Certainly less communication. So if it sucks so much, help sway the statistics - you even get a n unsub message to send they are FAR more likely to pay attention to than the repeated forum negativity that is so easily ignored.

 

Scale PvP gear acquisition back you say? You believe - honestly - that's what needs to happen? I just stopped laughing so let me ask you this - how do you define "time investment in Operations?" Like a clock? That'll go over great - people afk'ing in Ops is exactly what this game needs.

 

AFKing? What are you honestly talking about? Quite simply it's metrics to dictate how long people are spending in operations and how long play wise it is taking them to earn their gear ( including the RNG gear drops on the first 4 bosses ). You then have a rough "time to gear" ratio that you can change the unassembled component drop rate by.

 

That's just one idea, it took me all of a few second to think of that one. No in depth thought required. Where are you ideas? Oh right - it can't be improved .

 

But you don't mean that, do you? You mean bosses killed. Ahh, I gotcha. Here's the problem though. Killed by who? PuGs? Have you PuG'ed ToS lately? EC? What about groups that are trying to kill harder stuff? Groups just getting back into NM that struggle for a night on a boss? Or should you scale it to groups that can Farm HM's and a lot of NM stuff, leaving everyone in the dust? As I said in an earlier unrelated post the number of players doing Ops is debatable, but the size of the skill gap is not. So - anyone behind who you aim it at gets the shaft. Anyone in front has such a massive advantage it's not funny.

 

Why are you trying to compare rate of gear acquisition with difficulty or accessibility to raiding? As it stands there is a massive disparity between how fast you can get gear via raiding vs how fast you can gear in PVP. This ( few second worth of thinking ) idea is to bring that more in line ( it's not even close right now ).

 

Would everyone be on the same page? Of course not, but there are alternative means to get the gear be it GC or PVP and if the tweaks keep reducing the time investment required to have to get that gear then the system improves.

 

 

Your other idea - removing gear from PvP altogether.... I'm not sure how that's any less farfetched than putting loot back on bosses and bringing back PvP commendations.

 

Why? You think there is more chance of them bringing back expertise? Lol. One of the only really decent changes in this whole 5.x cycle so far is the removal of expertise. They just didn't go far enough.

Short of removing gearing of course is just a global bolster so everyone is on the same page and again removing gear drops from PVP as they are now.

 

Same thing more or less as removing gear being needed in PVP just probably easier to achieve technically.

 

Regardless though - now you're just screwing Ops players.

 

How? They wouldn't need gear if they wanted to PVP and if you don't need gear to PVP you remove the gear drops they just added of course since it wouldn't be needed for that type of content any more.

 

And forget about the fact that it does not in any way touch my point (which you seem to be ignoring) that a common system for PvP and Operations gearing cannot be equitable.

 

Pretty sure that's exactly what I touched on - you just want to pretend I didn't. Infact your whole "disparity" spiel was disparity between different type of operation players and their ability - not between operations and PVP time investment to gear earned which was the point I made in the first place.

 

I'm not sure how much clearer I could possibly be in this font - correct, they "should" stop trying to improve it and focus on removing it as the intended primary mechanism for Ops and PvP gearing.

 

You're making a lot of noise but I haven't seen a proposal by anyone, including you, that would be more fair.

 

So removing PVP gearing and the component system rewarding them gear for PVPing ( as they wouldn't need it ) would somehow be unfair? How? How are operations players disadvantaged to PVP players? How are PVP players disadvantaged to operations players?

 

Context bro. You're failing at trying to play semantics.

 

Not semantics at all. You wanted to imply there was an argument being made that there was "no problem" when that wasn't said at all. Don't try back out of it now. Who said or implied there was no problem?

 

The problem I am referencing is certainly being glossed over by you. If you need to reread, do so.

 

Re-read what here? You said there is a system that can't be improved. That's not the problem at all, that's your bias opinion of the current system plain and simple.

 

The fundamental idea of putting Ops and PvP gearing into the same overarching mechanism is a flawed idea. Period. I promise you, if you really want to keep on this - put up a solution with values. I will find the point of failure in under a minute.

 

Oh because ...

 

Your other idea - removing gear from PvP altogether.... I'm not sure how that's any less farfetched than putting loot back on bosses and bringing back PvP commendations

 

Is you finding the point of failure? Stating your opinion of it being far fetched is a point of failure?

 

Who said they also needed to stay in the same system as they are now? I've always been a proponent of removing PVP gearing in this game. Doing so would at least solve the problem of the current system for PVP players and then you are left with tweaks to the rate of gear acquisition to make it less horrible for PVE players be it through operations, GC or some other means.

 

I have not seen anything that makes me believe this is even remotely reality, because at the end of the day gear still requires a constant throughput of CXP.

 

Only for tokens and you don't need grind GC levels themselves anywhere near as much as before the tokens came in. Be that as it may it would be better off not having tokens at all so if someone really did want to gear they could do so without GC.

 

And you haven't defined "doing the content" in a way that is equitable for PvP and PvE players.

 

Refer the first point around getting overall equitable time between the modes in terms of gaining gear. It is not at that point yet at all, PVP is miles behind. Better solution is removing the need for PVP gearing.

 

I do not disagree the system could be tuned to be fine for one or the other. But I am saying it cannot be for both, and the best you're hitting back with is "yes it can" and some backsass. Show me an actual fix that is fair for all, with numbers, or you have nothing.

 

I need numbers to say removing PVP gearing would be better? It's sort of like common sense isn't it?

 

Failing that it's about balancing the rate at which the 2 activities can earn gear and maybe you are right, maybe it will never be balanced under a traditional mode like this that we have with operations ( just stretched out ). Maybe operations should have never been given set pieces per boss, maybe they should too have unassembled components drop so that you could truly get as close as possible to a "This many tokens takes this long through operations and this long through PVP" meaning you can get a much better rate of balance through tweaking.

 

Too quick we think "all bosses need set drops" but maybe it should have used the PVP system ( except much faster obviously ) because if it weren't an incredibly stupidly long grind with how they have it now would it be that bad?

 

It removes the issue of getting a mainhand being easier and quicker ( and possible ) through PVP because X operation players can't do HM Revan.

 

Maybe instead of a set item per end boss it's a trade in for any item you want per end boss. Set the time in PVP terms it takes you to get enough components for a similar rated item to the average length of SM/HM/NIM for the shortest operation ( KP/EV ideally for SM/HM and DF for NiM ).

 

This is just more all thinking out loud, feel free to contribute and expand beyond your "can't be done" attitude though. Or just keep being negative for the sake of being negative and paying for this game regardless of how much "suck" it has you feel.

[RswanBing]

You just used "they" and "I" in the same logical reasoning. How does that even make sense?

 

If it's "I" - which is what you've specifically said above - you are either being completely subjective to how your personal guild did things that had a "TUXs gets everything first rule" or you are coming from the view as being the only person who needed that piece. Unless you know something I don't and there are bosses guaranteed to drop enough items for everyone?

 

If not which time and we talking about here? The first run are you guaranteed? The second? Which point is GUARANTEED as you put it? How then if everyone needed that MH do you decide who gets it? I don't see how if everyone needs it any one individual can be guaranteed to get it? How does that happen?

 

He use "they" and "I" in an answer to my post, where I was saying that before 5.0, a group was sure to get a specific piece. After 5.0 a group is not sure to get anything. It wasn't the gear who was random before, only the selection of the player who gets it. That's not the same thing at all.

 

So the "they" was for the group, then he uses "I" because he was talking about himself, which makes sense you know . And completely ignoring that he was answering to something just to pretend what he says make no sense is not really glorious.

 

And I can't speak for him, but surely he talks about playing with guildies or mates, not everyone do that sure, but a lot do. It's a common thing that guildies or friends run an operation together with the goal to get gear for someone specific. Or at least it was before 5.0. So sure, not everyone does it, but as you said he was using "I", not "We".

 

I'm probably not at smart as you, but I don't really see how he could be anything else than subjective when he's sharing his own personal experience. It's subjective by definition.

Edited February 3, 2017 by RswanBing

[gabigool]

...

 

lol

 

5char

[Ambramotte]

I just stopped laughing so let me ask you this - how do you define "time investment in Operations?" Like a clock? That'll go over great - people afk'ing in Ops is exactly what this game needs.

 

But you don't mean that, do you? You mean bosses killed. Ahh, I gotcha. Here's the problem though. Killed by who? PuGs? Have you PuG'ed ToS lately? EC? What about groups that are trying to kill harder stuff? Groups just getting back into NM that struggle for a night on a boss? Or should you scale it to groups that can Farm HM's and a lot of NM stuff, leaving everyone in the dust? As I said in an earlier unrelated post the number of players doing Ops is debatable, but the size of the skill gap is not. So - anyone behind who you aim it at gets the shaft. Anyone in front has such a massive advantage it's not funny.

 

You'd have to mess with the conversion rates, but here is one option:

 

1) Average out the dmg requirements for all SM bosses

2) Average out the healing requirements for all SM bosses

3) subtract 1/3* (this ratio is one number that would need to be adjusted to find the right balance) of the value of the current CXP token you get from a boss kill

4) based on enrage timers, work out the CXP per 1,000* (or 2k or 6k or whatever) Damage so that the dps will get the 1/3 back (plus a nominal amount more so that this doesn't royally screw people playing less ideal specs)

5) repeat step 4 for heales.

6) repeat step 4 for tank dps, obviously the conversion rate for tank dps would have to be higher than the conversion rate for a dps spec doing dps

 

The ratio of CPX earned from dmg, heales, etc would have to be tweaked so that it's ideal to kill a boss within enrage timer and not sitting there wiping on a boss. However, as opposed to right now, this would still give something to players progressing on a boss. I mean sometimes you get on a team with a crap raid leader who comes up with crazy dumb strats and you sit there wiping for months on a boss. It would be nice to get cxp in that situation.

 

* these numbers would need to be adjusted to properly incentivize people to kill bosses instead of trying to manipulate the system.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Ambramotte

[TrixxieTriss]

The first set of changes will likely be next week in Game Update 5.1.1. The second set of changes a few weeks later (likely end of Feb) in 5.1.2. I am working on the final details. I am really hoping to get the post out today with all of the details, tomorrow the latest.

 

-eric

 

Eric, I think you missed your own deadline

[TUXs]

If not which time and we talking about here? The first run are you guaranteed? The second? Which point is GUARANTEED as you put it? How then if everyone needed that MH do you decide who gets it? I don't see how if everyone needs it any one individual can be guaranteed to get it? How does that happen?

The loot drop was guaranteed on EVERY run.

Edited February 3, 2017 by TUXs

[gabigool]

You'd have to mess with the conversion rates, but here is one option:

 

1) Average out the dmg requirements for all SM bosses

2) Average out the healing requirements for all SM bosses

3) subtract 1/3* (this ratio is one number that would need to be adjusted to find the right balance) of the value of the current CXP token you get from a boss kill

4) based on enrage timers, work out the CXP per 1,000* (or 2k or 6k or whatever) Damage so that the dps will get the 1/3 back (plus a nominal amount more so that this doesn't royally screw people playing less ideal specs)

5) repeat step 4 for heales.

6) repeat step 4 for tank dps, obviously the conversion rate for tank dps would have to be higher than the conversion rate for a dps spec doing dps

 

The ratio of CPX earned from dmg, heales, etc would have to be tweaked so that it's ideal to kill a boss within enrage timer and not sitting there wiping on a boss. However, as opposed to right now, this would still give something to players progressing on a boss. I mean sometimes you get on a team with a crap raid leader who comes up with crazy dumb strats and you sit there wiping for months on a boss. It would be nice to get cxp in that situation.

 

* these numbers would need to be adjusted to properly incentivize people to kill bosses instead of trying to manipulate the system.

 

I think you'd see a lot of NM Nefra farming

[Foznic]

It's very simple to me. My highest command rank character is currently rank 69. I still don't have my first set bonus. If I had a two headed assassin I would because I have received 2 headpieces. Your system is broken, it shouldn't be possible for it to take over 2 months just to get your first set bonus of the lowest tier gear. At that rate It will take over a year to get a full bonus. I have been a subscriber since pre-launch and am so frustrated that I will likely not renew my sub anyways but I've already determined that if I make it to tier 2 before I get a single set bonus I will uninstall the game and not look back. The sickening thing is you IGNORED the feedback from the test server expressing that the RNG system was broken and chose to subject the entire community to this failure. Now, here's my suggestion for alleviating the worst element of the RNG system. Clearly the set bonus pieces are the most desirable components in the crates. Would it be too hard to create a system that monitors drops and increases the odds of a set bonus piece dropping with each successive unsuccessful drop. Of course the routine could reset with a successful drop. Thereby preventing subscribers from opening crate after crate with nothing but crap to show for it.

[fabsus]

hello.

 

i just wanted to share some thoughts.

 

 

to increase the crate-rate, i would cut the needed cxp by xx%

and give the crates retroactive to the players. this will help you,

not the change every quest, every bonus quest, every npc, for

an higher income. just the retroactive crates could be a problem.

but i think, that it is possible, to get the real grinded cxp, also over

rank 300, isn't it?

 

this is the best way i think, because it would be worth playing with

these character until the change and you can level up the alts, too.

also for newer players, it would be nice, to start leveling faster.

 

on the other side you need to increase the income, by changing every

quest, every npc, every cxp token, every bonus quest and check out,

if everything works fine, with all the possible bonuses.

 

 

personally the actual system is okay, but always could be improved.

at first i would change the pvp components to a legacy currency and

raise the cap for commando tokens and components so you could

collect some with one alt and use them on another, without changing

many items through the vendors. so you can focus on a single character

or use them on many alts, as you want.

 

next thing is, that we have some improvements for operations players and

pvp players. but what about all the other ones? i know many people not willing

to play both. they like running flashpoints, are just playing story or doing uprisings.

they don't get any reward, exept cxp. imo it would be okay, to think about a rate

of components, for completing the missions. this includes planetmissions, too.

maybe 1 component each mission, 2 for each bonus mission , 5 for the planetmission.

and a higher rate for flashpoints and uprisings.

 

i think, the low rates in pvp are set, to keep out the pve-only players. some pve

players see themself forced, to play pvp, to upgrade from 236 to 242, because

they are not able to play mm-operations. so they would get another possibility

what they like more and not ruining the pvp matches, with their awol-behavior.

also that way you could increase the components a bit, for the pvp-only players,

with less time.

 

 

another thing i would mention, is your rough timetable. there you could think,

that your releases are calculated by a 60day (gtc) set. one operation boss

within 2 years is "not that much". we all hoped, that you would bring us more,

maybe some 8player-uprisings, with a 1tank-setup. i'm looking forward to this

new "operation", but you should really take a look to other games. i'm okay with

it, to do a payment update, if content is okay, like SoR or so.

or maybe do an extra operation pack. just with some operations, that you could

decide if you want it, or not. i don't know, just some fast thoughts.

 

 

but what i really like, is you improvement of communication.

[Wayshuba]

That's certainly true for many people but not for all.

 

Take Wayshuba .. he has blatantly said he will be gone when he unsubs and will not return.

 

Thus all his anti game posts seem to be nothing more than to fan the flames, wind the crowd up.

 

Whilst I get your point I still maintain many could endeavour to be more constructive and then the few who are here purely to fire up the crowd should just be ignored for the most part.

 

That is true, I did say that and it will happen come 2/14. However, I don't post to fan the flames. I post because when the devs are sitting there wondering why subs are dropping off like a bad habit it is useful for them to know WHY people are leaving the game.

 

Your reference to what I said about me and the guild moving on also contained two points of feedback for the devs on fixing what is wrong. If you look at my post history prior to saying I was moving on, with the announcement of the 5.0 GC System, I gave constructive feedback on the system. It just so happens, that that feedback aligned with quite a few in the community.

 

But when a dev says give us feedback, and as players we can see the feedback aligning, it is even more frustrating when they act like that feedback doesn't exist. When a good portion of customers tell them no end game gear RNG and Ben responds with something as insulting as "RNG is exciting", it just makes you want to cancel you sub more. It makes people despise the game even more when the devs seem determined to implement something that upsets so many paying customers. It makes absolutely not the slightest bit of common sense for a business (any business) to do something that intentionally damages their product and drives away revenue. It's not like SWTOR has SO many paying customers that they can afford the luxury of losing half their paying player base over it.

 

Like many, I have (had) a lot of time and investment in the game. To see it come down to this is, quite frankly, is upsetting. I would rather stay in SWTOR, but to be honest, it seems the devs don't want us to. And, NO, as a paying customer from month to month I am not just going to shut up and take what they throw at us when it destroys enjoyment in the game. I have personally witnessed, in the period of two-three weeks, this GC System destroy our entire guild in the game. That, is 100% BWAs fault. We would have been fine, even with the older content, if they had simply updated the current gearing stats and kept the old mechanism.

 

One last thing, all these changes that are being implemented are not because of those supporting the **** they threw in with the GC System - it is the drop off in subs and going back and finally reading the complaints that has them making "fixes" to the system. So for those that stay, your welcome.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Wayshuba

[LordAppius]

Eric if i were you deep down i would hae realized by now that you are trying to compensate for the crap work you did untill you ppl started streaming, for years communitcation was horrible, now you make announcements of announcements. You have zero fault to the "content" that is developed but you are part of the reason why this shi* systemcalled command crate was launched! You are out of touch with the community, you and the "Ma-lah-Veeeeehh" guy! Charles is the personification of a headless checkin at this stage:rak_04:

[RswanBing]

One last thing, all these changes that are being implemented are not because of those supporting the **** they threw in with the GC System - it is the drop off in subs and going back and finally reading the complaints that has them making "fixes" to the system. So for those that stay, your welcome.

 

I agree, without the many "complaining people" ( I'm one of them ), I really doubt they would have fixed anything. Maybe some little changes, but nothing like what they're planning now. If everyone was silent or happy, they would have no reason at all to do anything. They don't want to change the system, they're forced to, by complaints and unsubs, without these, they would keep things going as they were.

 

I've seen a lot of people saying "If you don't like it, just leave and don't stay here complaining" and I disagree, you don't improve a game only with positive critics, negative ones are at least as much as important.

 

I'm the kind of player who had no plan at all to leave this game not so long ago. I never really bother complaining on forums or anywhere before 5.0 or 5.0 annoucement maybe, I have never be that upset by dev's behaviour before.

 

As others I think, I'm not happy to leave, I still like this game or parts of it at least, I just refuse to pay anything for that team anymore while they've take players for fools SO MANY TIMES.

 

But I'm not Attila the Hun, I don't want everything to burn behind me because I'm leaving, I'm actually hoping they will at some point open their eyes and make things better for those who stays.

Edited February 3, 2017 by RswanBing

[Wayshuba]

I agree, without the many "complaining people" ( I'm one of them ), I really doubt they would have fixed anything. Maybe some little changes, but nothing like what they're planning now. If everyone was silent or happy, they would have no reason at all to do anything. They don't want to change the system, they're forced to, by complaints and unsubs, without these, they would keep things going as they were.

 

I've seen a lot of people saying "If you don't like it, just leave and don't stay here complaining" and I disagree, you don't improve a game only with positive critics, negative ones are at least as much as important.

 

I'm the kind of player who had no plan at all to leave this game not so long ago. I never really bother complaining on forums or anywhere before 5.0 or 5.0 annoucement maybe, I have never be that upset by dev's behaviour before.

 

As others I think, I'm not happy to leave, I still like this game or parts of it at least, I just refuse to pay anything for that team anymore while they've take players for fools SO MANY TIMES.

 

But I'm not Attila the Hun, I don't want everything to burn behind me because I'm leaving, I'm actually hoping they will at some point open their eyes and make things better for those who stays.

 

Do you find it coincidental that two MMOs that got off to very bad starts (FFXIV and ESO), actually listened to the complaints and responded by fixing them (FFXIV with ARR and ESO with One Tamriel) and suddenly those titles not only turned around, they are growing?

[DanNV]

That is true, I did say that and it will happen come 2/14. However, I don't post to fan the flames. I post because when the devs are sitting there wondering why subs are dropping off like a bad habit it is useful for them to know WHY people are leaving the game.

 

Your reference to what I said about me and the guild moving on also contained two points of feedback for the devs on fixing what is wrong. If you look at my post history prior to saying I was moving on, with the announcement of the 5.0 GC System, I gave constructive feedback on the system. It just so happens, that that feedback aligned with quite a few in the community.

 

But when a dev says give us feedback, and as players we can see the feedback aligning, it is even more frustrating when they act like that feedback doesn't exist. When a good portion of customers tell them no end game gear RNG and Ben responds with something as insulting as "RNG is exciting", it just makes you want to cancel you sub more. It makes people despise the game even more when the devs seem determined to implement something that upsets so many paying customers. It makes absolutely not the slightest bit of common sense for a business (any business) to do something that intentionally damages their product and drives away revenue. It's not like SWTOR has SO many paying customers that they can afford the luxury of losing half their paying player base over it.

 

Like many, I have (had) a lot of time and investment in the game. To see it come down to this is, quite frankly, is upsetting. I would rather stay in SWTOR, but to be honest, it seems the devs don't want us to. And, NO, as a paying customer from month to month I am not just going to shut up and take what they throw at us when it destroys enjoyment in the game. I have personally witnessed, in the period of two-three weeks, this GC System destroy our entire guild in the game. That, is 100% BWAs fault. We would have been find, even with the older content, if they had simply updating the current gearing mechanism.

 

One last thing, all these changes that are being implemented are not because of those supporting the **** they threw in with the GC System - it is the drop off in subs and going back and finally reading the complaints that has them making "fixes" to the system. So for those that stay, your welcome.

 

Very well said. Thank you.

 

Do you find it coincidental that two MMOs that got off to very bad starts (FFXIV and ESO), actually listened to the complaints and responded by fixing them (FFXIV with ARR and ESO with One Tamriel) and suddenly those titles not only turned around, they are growing?

 

Pretty amazing what happens when a business listens to the people who pay for their product. BW could have had a big a success if they had listened during 1.x and not just put stuff out to placate people at the guild summit. It

s really a shame. Star Wars licences should be about as close to a license to print money as you can get and BW has totally missed the boat.

Edited February 3, 2017 by DanNV

[RswanBing]

Do you find it coincidental that two MMOs that got off to very bad starts (FFXIV and ESO), actually listened to the complaints and responded by fixing them (FFXIV with ARR and ESO with One Tamriel) and suddenly those titles not only turned around, they are growing?

 

Not only they fixed things and listen more now, but these games have a clear direction. Problem with this game, imo, we have no idea were it's going, no big plans, no clear goal... They change direction every time and in the end, it just looks like a big mess.

[Quraswren]

Do you find it coincidental that two MMOs that got off to very bad starts (FFXIV and ESO), actually listened to the complaints and responded by fixing them (FFXIV with ARR and ESO with One Tamriel) and suddenly those titles not only turned around, they are growing?

 

Thats so true. You'd think bw would listen more before it all becomes more of a have to listen more like now.

 

They have this free think tank right here and of people that apparently do care about the game even amount all the frustrations. They would do well to pull a FF14 and ESO change in design and development.

[K_osss]

The first set of changes will likely be next week in Game Update 5.1.1. The second set of changes a few weeks later (likely end of Feb) in 5.1.2. I am working on the final details. I am really hoping to get the post out today with all of the details, tomorrow the latest.

 

-eric

 

Curious what you have for us Eric! It's tomorrow now

[Wayshuba]

Not only they fixed things and listen more now, but these games have a clear direction. Problem with this game, imo, we have no idea were it's going, no big plans, no clear goal... They change direction every time and in the end, it just looks like a big mess.

 

Here is something to cry about. I will first admit that I do not play ESO (yet). But compare the livestream and discussions we have had with ESO recently:

 

They have a MAJOR update going live on Monday with the housing update. Before that even hits, they drop a bomb about a big expansion coming in June. Then, to top matters off, they also take about what the annual content cycle will be from now on - content related DLC (non-group stuff) in Q1 and Q4, group related DLC in Q3 and an expansion in Q2. Most importantly, that is going to be the delivery schedule every year. They drop a new Trial (their version of a raid which is 12-person) in the expansion and another one in Q3.

 

But the most telling thing. Look at the team from BW on a livestream as they feed a bunch of half-truths to their customers with little to no passion (especially the last livestream), then watch the livestream from ZeniMax this week on with the announcements I mention above. You can see the difference in passion and commitment to their respective games. ZeniMax team looks excited to discuss what they are doing (or, and you can tell from the examples given that they actually play their own game).

 

Anyway... you get the point.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Wayshuba

[BelenUmeria]

Curious what you have for us Eric! It's tomorrow now

 

The post is up. Feel free to go read it. The changes just make it faster. It does not fix anything.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The loot drop was guaranteed on EVERY run.

 

Ah the loot drop was yes but you weren't guaranteed to get an item. Unless your guild somehow personally always guaranteed you the item you needed even though others might have also needed it?

[gabigool]

Ah the loot drop was yes but you weren't guaranteed to get an item. Unless your guild somehow personally always guaranteed you the item you needed even though others might have also needed it?

 

If you were on a team, your team got the piece. Guaranteed.

 

Unless you're particularly selfish, that's all that needed to happen.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

That is true, I did say that and it will happen come 2/14. However, I don't post to fan the flames. I post because when the devs are sitting there wondering why subs are dropping off like a bad habit it is useful for them to know WHY people are leaving the game.

 

You've done nothing but shoot down every positive step they've taken since they tried.

For example- we know there resources are limited yet when they announce new content that people have been asking for it's "no not good enough, FF14 does way more!" rather than some sort of constructive feedback.

 

They mention they wanted to put out a boss earlier rather than have us til near the year end for a full operations and you and others instantly turned that into tin foil hat "no they're stringing everyone along" which implies they are somehow doing it on purpose and could very well put out a full operation in by April but would rather not.

 

Or am I being unfair and I've mixed you up for someone else?

 

Your reference to what I said about me and the guild moving on also contained two points of feedback for the devs on fixing what is wrong. If you look at my post history prior to saying I was moving on, with the announcement of the 5.0 GC System, I gave constructive feedback on the system. It just so happens, that that feedback aligned with quite a few in the community.

 

Hey I'm not saying everything you've given back has been overly negative for the sake of being negative but a lot of it has indeed been so and at this stage it just comes across as you wanting to paint the game in a bad light rather than working to put forward ideas to "make it better" - this of course lines up nicely for a person who has no interest in ever returning. Take your pot shots and move on.

 

But when a dev says give us feedback, and as players we can see the feedback aligning, it is even more frustrating when they act like that feedback doesn't exist. When a good portion of customers tell them no end game gear RNG and Ben responds with something as insulting as "RNG is exciting", it just makes you want to cancel you sub more.

 

I was in the same boat up until 5.2 was announced. It was how incredibly negative some people were over 5.2 that set me off. Not everyone has to love it but the examples above just have me thinknig to myself "Wow, thesep oeple are going to hate on anything Eric says at this stage, they just want to watch the world burn".

 

5.2 for me is an example of Devs listening and starting to take steps to what we want. It might not seem like a lot but it's steps in the right direction. Who is to say that each numbered addition ( OP BOSS ) won't also come with as much content as the rest of 5.2? If that were the case it would make this year pretty good all round compared to last year.

 

It makes people despise the game even more when the devs seem determined to implement something that upsets so many paying customers. It makes absolutely not the slightest bit of common sense for a business (any business) to do something that intentionally damages their product and drives away revenue. It's not like SWTOR has SO many paying customers that they can afford the luxury of losing half their paying player base over it.

 

No one is arguing GC is good right now. It could be - we know they are working to improve it so all we can do is offer feedback on what we see them say and how they can improve it.

 

I see some good ideas out there and some silly ones ( like give everyone 230 set bonus straight away because we had that in 4.x right? ) but then there are people that just poo poo everything over and over, repeating the same stuff over and over and not really offering up any ideas at all. Don't they realise these are the people the devs ignore because it's not really feedback at all?

 

Like many, I have (had) a lot of time and investment in the game. To see it come down to this is, quite frankly, is upsetting. I would rather stay in SWTOR, but to be honest, it seems the devs don't want us to. And, NO, as a paying customer from month to month I am not just going to shut up and take what they throw at us when it destroys enjoyment in the game. I have personally witnessed, in the period of two-three weeks, this GC System destroy our entire guild in the game. That, is 100% BWAs fault. We would have been fine, even with the older content, if they had simply updated the current gearing stats and kept the old mechanism.

 

The thing is you've already shown yourself to be a "cut your nose off to spite your face" person because no matter what you've said you won't come back. Thus there is no pleasing you. You've tkaen some moral stance and that's your call but it can't be all about enjoyment based on that. 5.2 might be super fun and worth a months sub but you won't ever know because you aren't coming back thus there is no pleasing you so why would the devs listen to you at all? They will focus on those they can retain or get back.

 

One last thing, all these changes that are being implemented are not because of those supporting the **** they threw in with the GC System - it is the drop off in subs and going back and finally reading the complaints that has them making "fixes" to the system. So for those that stay, your welcome.

 

Yes the vote with their wallet people who I admire because they actually did stop paying to make their protest ( or they just weren't having fun mostly ) as opposed to others here who keep paying and keep whinging ( whinging isn't not liking the system, it's the incessant complaining without offering up REASONABLE solutions or ideas - basically being overly negative ).

Now whilst you seem to be part of the later part of that statement at least you are supporting your views with action in stopping paying ( unlike those others who I just fail to understand why they bother ) - just not sure why you aren't off enjoying another game and it's community instead of purposely trying to bring this one down since you "aren't returning" - you are literally wasting your time.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Do you find it coincidental that two MMOs that got off to very bad starts (FFXIV and ESO), actually listened to the complaints and responded by fixing them (FFXIV with ARR and ESO with One Tamriel) and suddenly those titles not only turned around, they are growing?

 

I find the ESO business model interesting and wonder if it could work here ... well I don't really because EA aren't ever going to reinvest the profits this game makes back into this game on the par that Square or Bethesda would ( I'm assuming here Zenimax being the BWA and Bethesda being the EA ).

 

Those games have that advantage, not having such a massive publishing house behind them so they really can focus on their products and put tons of investment into them. EA seem happy to just keep this game ticking along making modest profits.

 

All assumption there - this game could be making a loss now or more profit than we could possibly dream of as Eric, James and Ben might actually work for peanuts.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Here is something to cry about. I will first admit that I do not play ESO (yet). But compare the livestream and discussions we have had with ESO recently:

 

They have a MAJOR update going live on Monday with the housing update. Before that even hits, they drop a bomb about a big expansion coming in June. Then, to top matters off, they also take about what the annual content cycle will be from now on - content related DLC (non-group stuff) in Q1 and Q4, group related DLC in Q3 and an expansion in Q2. Most importantly, that is going to be the delivery schedule every year. They drop a new Trial (their version of a raid which is 12-person) in the expansion and another one in Q3.

 

But the most telling thing. Look at the team from BW on a livestream as they feed a bunch of half-truths to their customers with little to no passion (especially the last livestream), then watch the livestream from ZeniMax this week on with the announcements I mention above. You can see the difference in passion and commitment to their respective games. ZeniMax team looks excited to discuss what they are doing (or, and you can tell from the examples given that they actually play their own game).

 

Anyway... you get the point.

 

Lets get some perspective here though.

 

That expansion costs money though, $40 in fact.

You have to pay for the base game. If you want perks you have to pay a monthly subscription fee - you don't have to of course and their ... sort of F2P model is certainly better than here.

DLC's aren't free either - you get them with your monthly fee and if that lapses you have spend crown to get them ( which you would be smart to have saved from your monthly fee ).

 

Why are they more enthusiastic? I imagine if I were at the helm of this game ( and I'm still not convinced by a long shot the right people are, I'm still incredibly suspicious of what we don't know about 5.2 ) and had tons of money thrown at me to develop the game with I'd be excited too.

 

You can only use what you are given to work with.

Edited February 3, 2017 by MeNaCe-NZ

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If you were on a team, your team got the piece. Guaranteed.

 

Unless you're particularly selfish, that's all that needed to happen.

 

We = Team

I = not the whole team.

 

How can one person get exactly the piece they are after if there are 8 other people that might need it?