Opening up weapon types for classes

[Xienive]

TL;DR - At bottom

 

This is something that has been discussed multiple times in the past, but essentially it just wasn't something that was going to happen. The game is ever changing though, and it's different now than it was then. Personally, I think it's time to open up weapon types for classes. This doesn't mean every class should be able to use any weapon, for obvious feasibility issues, but allowing at least 2 or 3 choices per class would allow for greater character customization and more variety to make each class more fun.

 

-Uniqueness of Classes-

It's been criticized that the current weapon system makes classes unique, and that opening up weapon types would take away from that. While that certainly may have been true a long time ago, it isn't anymore. Why? Because we are at a point with CM armor now, that you can already make any class in the game look like any class you want to. BH's don't have to wear mando and heavy armor, and sages can choose to wear mando and heavy armor if they want. So essentially allowing a class to use a different weapon does no more damage to uniqueness than CM armor already has. Commando is already really close to being able to fully use rifles, and sniper basically can already without much of a noticeable difference. It hasn't been a problem in any way.

 

-The Animation Problem-

The other big problem that has been stated is that it would be too hard to add animations. For some classes and some weapons yes, but for many options, no it wouldn't be a problem. Many animations are already in the game, and would fit on multiple classes. For example if a Merc could use a rifle, simply add the full auto animation when they use unload. Instead of power shot, snipe would work fine as many companions and NPC's use the animation as a non sniper. Also many class animations (tracer missile, force lightning, etc.) don't rely on the weapon for the animation. Basically utilize all current animations and just paste them on abilities when necessary.

 

-Who can use what?-

This is just my opinion, and I'd be open to more ideas. But as I mentioned, obviously, it would be too much for every class to be able to use everything. However a few options would be nice and and I believe the ones I list would be possible without many new animations, or perhaps any new ones at all. Also these are suggestions for EXTRA equips, of course the standard normal ones would still be available. So you wouldn't have to use these if you preferred your current weapon.

 

• Guard/Jugg - Double bladed lightsaber
  
• Sent/Marauder - Double bladed lightaber
  
• Shadow/Sin - Single bladed lightsaber
  
• Sage/Sorc - Extra focus in main hand for stats, but no visible weapon
  
• Scoundrel - Rifle
  
• Operative - Pistol
  
• Gunslinger - Single pistol/Sniper rifle
  
• Sniper - Dual pistols (Sure this may not make sense with the name, but the animations are there and it already doesn't make sense that pistols have the same ranges as sniper rifles, so whatever)
  
• Vanguard - Pistol/Techstaff (Vanguard now has only the basic attack that actually uses the rifle, so allowing them to equip a melee weapon would require nothing but a standard attack animation, and would make sense from a functional standpoint. Other attacks beside basic could come out of a wrist launcher)
  
• Powertech - Rifle/Vibroblade (Same reasoning as Vanguard)
  
• Commando - Rifle (full functionality) Dual pistols
  
• Mercenary - Rifle/Assault Cannon? (Not totally sure about the cannon but currently no Imperial players can use it and I think Merc could pull it off best.)
  

 

Another thing to note is that every class doesn't have to receive new weapon options all at once. They could gradually incorporate new weapon choices for 1 or 2 classes at a time until everybody was upgraded. Additionally this would be good from a CM standpoint (which I know they love) because now more weapons are able to be used by more classes, so there is a greater demand for things like double bladed lightsabers, sniper rifles and assault cannons that usually have low value and low demand due to restrictions. In other words they would be able to make more sales on direct weapon purchases and people may buy more packs to try and get weapons they wouldn't have been able to get before.

 

TL;DR - Being restricted to 1 weapon type is a dated idea, doesn't add anything unique in the current status of an adaptive armor game, and animations already in game could be used to allow classes to equip new weapons. Adding more weapon choices increases customization and possible CM sales. Win for everybody.

 

If you actually read everything, what are your thoughts? What suggestions would you make? If you are truly supportive of not allowing classes to equip new weapon types, why is that? What disadvantages are there? Would love to hear people's thoughts in the current point of the game in contrast to when this was talked about a while ago.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Xienive

[Eshvara]

This seems like a good thread for the suggestion box.

 

That aside, I don't think weapons should change, it removes class identity.

The only thing I do want is for an imp class to be able to use the assault cannon. There is no reason why it should be a rep only weapon.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Eshvara

[SerraShar]

If you are truly supportive of not allowing classes to equip new weapon types, why is that?

 

Because I like a class to be unique . If every class could Tank , what's the point of making so many ? It cheapen them .

 

What disadvantages are there?

Beside the confusion it would create at first ? Dude..why aren't you Tanking!!!! you got a double bladed lightsaber..you are Tank assassin no ? no ?!?! *Kick*....

 

In other words they would be able to make more sales on direct weapon purchases and people may buy more packs to try and get weapons they wouldn't have been able to get before.

why would you encourage them , when they clearly aren't putting those ''sales'' back in the game . I mean , I get the idea you are taunting them with more dinero....

 

and Last , they didn't bother make a new animation for that Knight of Zaakul weapon (Someone correct me if you got one . Do you use it like the Knight of Zaakul do ?) , so I don't see this happening .

[SerraShar]

This seems like a good thread for the suggestion box.

 

That aside, I don't think weapons should change, it removes class identity.

The only thing I do want is for an imp class to be able to use the assault cannon. There is no reason why it should be a rep only weapon.

 

Repb got them Abs *flex flex* so they can handle it!

[Xienive]

Because I like a class to be unique . If every class could Tank , what's the point of making so many ? It cheapen them .

 

 

Beside the confusion it would create at first ? Dude..why aren't you Tanking!!!! you got a double bladed lightsaber..you are Tank assassin no ? no ?!?! *Kick*....

 

 

why would you encourage them , when they clearly aren't putting those ''sales'' back in the game . I mean , I get the idea you are taunting them with more dinero....

 

and Last , they didn't bother make a new animation for that Knight of Zaakul weapon (Someone correct me if you got one . Do you use it like the Knight of Zaakul do ?) , so I don't see this happening .

 

Don't recall saying every class should be able to do every role, just equip different weapons. Nothing would change but visuals. Also there are already class symbols you can put above any character which instantly identifies what class they are. Not confusing. Pretty much every other MMO ever allows classes to use a variety of weapons and it doesn't cause confusion.

 

I really can't understand how weapons make classes unique when adaptive armor already totally eliminates unique appearances for each class. It just doesn't exist anymore. It's more common to see a character not dressed like their class than somebody who actually looks like what they are.

 

While I don't like the CM sales, I've just accepted that it's what the game is about now. So rather than try and fight a battle that can't be won, I'd prefer to just make the best of it.

[SerraShar]

I really can't understand how weapons make classes unique when adaptive armor already totally eliminates unique appearances for each class. It just doesn't exist anymore. It's more common to see a character not dressed like their class than somebody who actually looks like what they are.

weapon make class unique , because weapon has special abilitie for said weapon . You can't backstab with one Lightsaber or go stealthy . Can you now ?

 

They would have to change stuff around .

 

while I agree with you for armor . It isn't true though . Every damn Trooper I see look like a real Trooper lol

 

Adaptive armor doesn't take away what you are supposed to be . Then you also forgot the cutscene issue . Would a Jugg holding 2 blades would appear proprely in cutscene ? I heard that if you change Lana crystal , it won't show up .

 

But I stand by my point . One things I hate in others MMO (Like Guild Wars 2) is that any specie can be ANY CLASS . it's sooo Boring . That's one thing I loved about baldur's Gates 2 SOA . I could be this class and be restricted . A thief won't throwing around spell just to look good . A Druid won't start wearing a Paladin Shield just cose it look awesome .

 

well you get the idea...

[Xienive]

weapon make class unique , because weapon has special abilitie for said weapon . You can't backstab with one Lightsaber or go stealthy . Can you now ?

 

They would have to change stuff around .

 

while I agree with you for armor . It isn't true though . Every damn Trooper I see look like a real Trooper lol

 

Adaptive armor doesn't take away what you are supposed to be . Then you also forgot the cutscene issue . Would a Jugg holding 2 blades would appear proprely in cutscene ? I heard that if you change Lana crystal , it won't show up .

 

But I stand by my point . One things I hate in others MMO (Like Guild Wars 2) is that any specie can be ANY CLASS . it's sooo Boring . That's one thing I loved about baldur's Gates 2 SOA . I could be this class and be restricted . A thief won't throwing around spell just to look good . A Druid won't start wearing a Paladin Shield just cose it look awesome .

 

well you get the idea...

 

Actually one lightsaber would be technically more convenient for sneaking around because it's less weight and size to carry. You only stab with one end of the lightsaber, so there's no reason you couldn't stab somebody with a single blade. The riposte animation would actually fit perfect as an example of how it would work just fine.

 

Any species can be any class in this game though. How would a bounty hunter with a rifle not look good, or not make sense? A sith Juggernaut with a double bladed saber and black armor looks a lot more like a Sith than one who has 1 lightsaber and a pink bikini on.

 

I'm not sure if you read my whole post though since I never suggested Juggs being able to use 2 sabers, nor all classes being able to use all weapons. I still had restrictions, just 1 or 2 extra options (that still made sense mostly). Most cutscenes only utilize one lightsaber, even on Marauders, but if they did happen to use both then the animation for both is already in the game for Marauder. So that animation would just need to be applied to Jugg for the cutscene. But even then classes like Agent and Trooper just pull a pistol out often rather than their normal weapon, so that's not a big deal anyway.

 

I understand your opinion, and I appreciate it being presented in a reasonable way and not a flame way. But I still can't help to think that it would only make characters more unique since you can personalize them your own way even more so than you already can.

[Ejied]

This seems like a good thread for the suggestion box.

 

That aside, I don't think weapons should change, it removes class identity.

The only thing I do want is for an imp class to be able to use the assault cannon. There is no reason why it should be a rep only weapon.

 

I disagree. By opening up weapons to any class, they wouldn't feel so cookie cutter. I'd love to customize my Jedi further by how they train/use a lightsaber. Double bladed on my Sentinal please.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Ejied

[ProKsnNwk]

I like the uniqueness of every class having their own thing.

I wouldn't mind though for Adv. Class to be able to go between their own class weapons to chnge their Main Class.

Example:

Sith Inquisitor can either equip Double Bladed Lightsaber to change his role to Assassin or just normal Lightsaber to change to Sorcerer.

Do the same with other Classes.

 

I mean with this grindy and RNG equipment fest, it\s hard to gear ALTs and annoying at times, so they need to fix the gear reward system or enable Adv. Class change.

and Main classes have same main story lines, so it could be bit boring leveling same class again.

I think that would be cool even if they fix the gear system, makes it bit more fun.

Edited December 30, 2016 by ProKsnNwk

[Vember]

I have always wanted to play Marauder with a saberstaff

[TUXs]

Weapons should absolutely be cosmetic at this point. Melee would need to be restricted to melee, sabers to force users, ranged to ranged classes, but it's silly not to have them be cosmetic - and before anyone complains about animations, nobody cares. Use whatever you want, let me use what I want.

[Anzel]

Weapons should absolutely be cosmetic at this point. Melee would need to be restricted to melee, sabers to force users, ranged to ranged classes, but it's silly not to have them be cosmetic - and before anyone complains about animations, nobody cares. Use whatever you want, let me use what I want.

 

I agree completely Tux. Weapons should be cosmetic. I like the idea of my Merc using a heavy weapon or blaster rifle. Although, I have no idea how they would map animations of different weapons to the appropriate skills, etc. That would be a little bit tricky but they spent a fair amount of time on the "New Pack Opening Experience" so I'm sure someone could figure it out.

[TUXs]

I agree completely Tux. Weapons should be cosmetic. I like the idea of my Merc using a heavy weapon or blaster rifle. Although, I have no idea how they would map animations of different weapons to the appropriate skills, etc. That would be a little bit tricky but they spent a fair amount of time on the "New Pack Opening Experience" so I'm sure someone could figure it out.

Ha I see what you did there lol

[Andryah]

If you actually read everything, what are your thoughts? What suggestions would you make? If you are truly supportive of not allowing classes to equip new weapon types, why is that? What disadvantages are there? Would love to hear people's thoughts in the current point of the game in contrast to when this was talked about a while ago.

 

I'm fine with weapon restrictions by class. This is both common and fairly normal in MMOs... though there are a few that have broadened weapon choices for classes over time.

 

This is NOT something I want to see the studio spending resources on... there are much more important things they need to address.

 

I think you fail to realize that some weapons simply would not work well with class animations (and weapon storage)as they currently exist... so a lot of rework would be required by the studio to make your fantasy come true.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Andryah

[Anduhar]

I don't think opening up weapon types is necessary at all and it may actually do more harm than good. The ability for specific classes to only use specific weapons is quite common in MMOs for a reason. Specific weapons are a fundamental part of class fantasy and this connection between class and weapon type arguably creates a fantasy for the specific weapon type as well. When you see a double bladed saber you immediately know what class that is and subsequently you associate the saber with that class. A double bladed saber isn't just a lightsaber, its a lightsaber specifically for a stealthy assassin. You can say the same for other weapons as well, two 1h sabers, assault cannons, etc. Allowing classes to use weapons that were previously exclusive to other classes does in fact take something away from the fantasy of those previous classes.

 

Also, many class abilities were designed with specific weapons in mind. Everything from certain ability names to the animations of those abilities are either thematically dependent on specific weapons or outright require them in order to use the ability. A decent amount of development time would have to be spent on dealing with these issues. This is development time that could be spent on creating new content and other more constructive projects for the game.

 

Regardless of how anyone feels about this issue, I think we should all admit that it is very controversial and if something like this were to be implemented there would be a lot of unhappy people. The question is, are you ok with the devs spending development time on something that isn't necessary at all and that you know a lot of people will be unhappy with? Why not just add more weapons of existing types but with more unique looks to them?

 

 

EDIT:

It's been criticized that the current weapon system makes classes unique, and that opening up weapon types would take away from that. While that certainly may have been true a long time ago, it isn't anymore. Why? Because we are at a point with CM armor now, that you can already make any class in the game look like any class you want to. BH's don't have to wear mando and heavy armor, and sages can choose to wear mando and heavy armor if they want. So essentially allowing a class to use a different weapon does no more damage to uniqueness than CM armor already has.

 

I want to point out that just because we have the ability to use armor that looks like it belongs to another class doesn't mean we should go all the way and do the same for weapons. This is a slippery slope fallacy. And armor doesn't even have the same animation requirements as weapons or affect ability usage in any way.

 

And you have to realize that even though we have this ability to use all this fancy armor, the majority of the time you still see people using armor that fits the fantasy for their class. You rarely see Troopers or Agents running around in full Jedi robes. The exceptions are when people use combinations of armor from different "themes" and/or dye them to look like it fits the class they're playing. If you want the class you're playing to legitimately look like a different class then why not just play a different class?

Edited December 30, 2016 by Anduhar

[KorbanShepard]

I have always wanted to play Marauder with a saberstaff

 

Yes! This so much. I hate that Kira Carson is able to have a double bladed light saber and still do the force leap.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Guys, don't forget that in vanila until 4.0 our companions (Jaesa, Kira etc) were able to wield dual-bladed and single sabers. their animations varied or remained the same but fit nonetheless.

 

Also 5.0 introduced force pike and a saberstaff that one could take from NPC and use as a single-handed lightsaber. Good few of the old animations changed (Shatter/Plasma Brand most notably as well as leap) to accomodate it so it is likely that some work was done on it before launch and remains are in the code. All they have to do is just several animations for different abilities. It's actually quite simple given that there already are some.

[Anduhar]

Guys, don't forget that in vanila until 4.0 our companions (Jaesa, Kira etc) were able to wield dual-bladed and single sabers. their animations varied or remained the same but fit nonetheless.

 

Keep in mind, companions don't have that many abilities. And as far as animations are concerned, they can probably swap out animations depending on the weapon a companion has equipped because they probably already have those animations for other companions that use those weapon types for the same ability. I imagine that would be easy to do since they homogenized the companion classes.

 

As far as class fantasy is concerned, companions aren't necessary defined by what class they are, we can change their class whenever we want. Companions are primarily defined by their character and who they are rather than what class they are. The fantasy integrity of player classes is more important to maintain and weapon types play a large role in that.

[KorbanShepard]

Keep in mind, companions don't have that many abilities. And as far as animations are concerned, they can probably swap out animations depending on the weapon a companion has equipped because they probably already have those animations for other companions that use those weapon types for the same ability. I imagine that would be easy to do since they homogenized the companion classes.

 

As far as class fantasy is concerned, companions aren't necessary defined by what class they are, we can change their class whenever we want. Companions are primarily defined by their character and who they are rather than what class they are. The fantasy integrity of player classes is more important to maintain and weapon types play a large role in that.

 

I'm sorry, but when I read that, I just see people scared of change. How does it matter in the grand scheme of things? There are symbols above players to indicate their classes, so that's not needed. There's some reasonable flexibility in the animations, so that's not needed. As far as time taken to redo things by the dev team... I'm certain we can find things that they've done that are far more foolish and time sucking.

 

It's really not that big of a deal as some of the folks in this thread are making it out to be and in every MMO BB I've ever seen, the moment somebody offers a suggestion for a change, somebody gets all upset and starts offering psuedo-logical reasons of why it can' t be so as opposed to considering how it could.

[Fireswraith]

Only class you could validly do this on is the Sorc/Sage seeing as they have all but one kind of useful melee ability (that probably most don't bother specing for anyway) so their weapon really is just for show.

[TalonVII]

I think there are certain classes that should have specific weapons. Examples:

 

Sin/Shadow: Double bladed saber

Sniper: sniper rifle

Commando: AC(though personally I always thought the AC should of gone to the VG but what do I know)

 

I think they should open up the following classes to the following weapons:

Operative:blaster pistols(why an operative would lug around a rifle is beyond me)

Vanguard: Techblade with an offhand being a new Ion gun for ranged attacks.

Power tech: Techstaff, and then ofcourse the off hand gauntlet for attacks

Guard/Jugg: Light club(light saber but instead of the 1.5 meter blade we all know, they get a 3 meter long blade like a Greatsword)

Sorcerer: Light whip. Look up Lumiya or lightwhip on wookiepedia, but since sorcs don't have many atttacks, this could easily fit in with the strike with a whip and use the force as your power.

Sage: Shield Gauntlet. Look at wookiepedia for it. It's a small sheild on the wrist to block blaster and saber attacks. As sages are peaceful and mostly use the force in this game anyways, this could be a solution to the useless saber while they fight.

 

Rather than just a free for all on weapons, how bout we bring more weapons in for classes.

[Xienive]

I don't think opening up weapon types is necessary at all and it may actually do more harm than good. The ability for specific classes to only use specific weapons is quite common in MMOs for a reason. Specific weapons are a fundamental part of class fantasy and this connection between class and weapon type arguably creates a fantasy for the specific weapon type as well. When you see a double bladed saber you immediately know what class that is and subsequently you associate the saber with that class. A double bladed saber isn't just a lightsaber, its a lightsaber specifically for a stealthy assassin. You can say the same for other weapons as well, two 1h sabers, assault cannons, etc. Allowing classes to use weapons that were previously exclusive to other classes does in fact take something away from the fantasy of those previous classes.

 

Also, many class abilities were designed with specific weapons in mind. Everything from certain ability names to the animations of those abilities are either thematically dependent on specific weapons or outright require them in order to use the ability. A decent amount of development time would have to be spent on dealing with these issues. This is development time that could be spent on creating new content and other more constructive projects for the game.

 

Regardless of how anyone feels about this issue, I think we should all admit that it is very controversial and if something like this were to be implemented there would be a lot of unhappy people. The question is, are you ok with the devs spending development time on something that isn't necessary at all and that you know a lot of people will be unhappy with? Why not just add more weapons of existing types but with more unique looks to them?

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

I want to point out that just because we have the ability to use armor that looks like it belongs to another class doesn't mean we should go all the way and do the same for weapons. This is a slippery slope fallacy. And armor doesn't even have the same animation requirements as weapons or affect ability usage in any way.

 

And you have to realize that even though we have this ability to use all this fancy armor, the majority of the time you still see people using armor that fits the fantasy for their class. You rarely see Troopers or Agents running around in full Jedi robes. The exceptions are when people use combinations of armor from different "themes" and/or dye them to look like it fits the class they're playing. If you want the class you're playing to legitimately look like a different class then why not just play a different class?

 

Class symbols are available as an option above nameplates. If you enable them you can immediately tell what class it is without even seeing their weapon. Weapon restrictions are common in MMO's, but it's not common to literally be able to use 1 thing and nothing else. Usually you can at least choose between a couple of different things, just not everything. That's exactly what I proposed in my OP. There would still be restrictions, you would just have 2, or in a couple of cases 3, options instead of only 1. Did you read what I originally posted about that and the animation problem?

 

EDIT: Also I'm not sure where you're playing, but I feel as if on Ebon Hawk it's very common to see people dressed like another class. I think when it comes to class identity armor is just as important, if not even more important, to distinction. Like I pointed out before, what's more sith like? A juggernaut in black armor with a double bladed lightsaber, or a juggernaut in a pink bikini with a single bladed? One is possible in game, the other is not

Edited December 31, 2016 by Xienive

[Fireswraith]

Weapons should absolutely be cosmetic at this point. Melee would need to be restricted to melee, sabers to force users, ranged to ranged classes, but it's silly not to have them be cosmetic - and before anyone complains about animations, nobody cares. Use whatever you want, let me use what I want.

 

Well, lot of people liked Tracer Missle's animation changing way back when so I wouldn't say entirely say that "nobody" cares about weapon/skill animations hehe.

 

But why be so limiting to just cosmetic? Assassin dual wielding two sabers, using voltaic slash and each weapon hits twice, doesn't seem to bad no?

[Nempo]

I think there are certain classes that should have specific weapons. Examples:

 

Sin/Shadow: Double bladed saber

Sniper: sniper rifle

Commando: AC(though personally I always thought the AC should of gone to the VG but what do I know)

 

I think they should open up the following classes to the following weapons:

Operative:blaster pistols(why an operative would lug around a rifle is beyond me)

Vanguard: Techblade with an offhand being a new Ion gun for ranged attacks.

Power tech: Techstaff, and then ofcourse the off hand gauntlet for attacks

Guard/Jugg: Light club(light saber but instead of the 1.5 meter blade we all know, they get a 3 meter long blade like a Greatsword)

Sorcerer: Light whip. Look up Lumiya or lightwhip on wookiepedia, but since sorcs don't have many atttacks, this could easily fit in with the strike with a whip and use the force as your power.

Sage: Shield Gauntlet. Look at wookiepedia for it. It's a small sheild on the wrist to block blaster and saber attacks. As sages are peaceful and mostly use the force in this game anyways, this could be a solution to the useless saber while they fight.

 

Rather than just a free for all on weapons, how bout we bring more weapons in for classes.

 

No lightwhips...those things are a monstrocity against physics man...at least a lightsaber is theoretically scientifically possible. Sorc should get the shield gauntlet as well for the exact same reasons...they never use their weapon.

Other than that...I approve totally.

 

And a Vanguard using an assault cannon would be...kinda bad. They need to get up in someone's face...the cannon is more like an artillery platform. That crap is heavy...you ain't running around charging into people's faces with that thing.

[SithKoriandr]

Because I like a class to be unique . If every class could Tank , what's the point of making so many ? It cheapen them .

 

 

Beside the confusion it would create at first ? Dude..why aren't you Tanking!!!! you got a double bladed lightsaber..you are Tank assassin no ? no ?!?! *Kick*....

 

 

why would you encourage them , when they clearly aren't putting those ''sales'' back in the game . I mean , I get the idea you are taunting them with more dinero....

 

and Last , they didn't bother make a new animation for that Knight of Zaakul weapon (Someone correct me if you got one . Do you use it like the Knight of Zaakul do ?) , so I don't see this happening .

 

Don't we have symbol's by our name that says what we are? Also, how would that cause confusion? I ask, as I don't tank with my assassin, I dps

 

It is however in their best interest to do this though, as it gives people more reasons to reroll and by armors and weapons on the CM.