.. and the award for Worst MMO Business Model in 2016 goes to ...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You implied that the game wasn't making enough money to stay open before it went F2P, and they questioned if that was really the case... if you're going to take ''wasn't making money'' literally, it just makes you look pedantic. You also brought the point up of F2P saving the game yourself (and it's obviously a financial decision), so for someone else challenge your idea that it was a necessary decision by EA/BW isn't a strawman

 

You also assume that everyone who disagrees with you is doing so because they want to defend SWTOR's business model against you, but this is the first thing the person has said to you in this thread and they implied no such thing.

 

That's the trouble with witch hunting; you start to see things that aren't there. Might wanna take a step back...

 

https://www.engadget.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/

[DarthSpuds]

https://www.engadget.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/

 

Shhh now.

 

There's no place for the truth in the company of White Knights.

 

All The Best

[Dilemmas]

https://www.engadget.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/

 

That was an interesting read actually, thank you. But you didn't have to prove your point to me, and I think you've completely missed mine - I never suggested going F2P didn't ''save'' SWTOR, or that I agreed or disagreed with the sentiments of anyone that you replied to.

 

The point was that your accusation of strawmanning was ridiculous (I have already explained exactly why), and that your witch-hunting mentality here caused you to be unreasonable.

 

Shhh now.

 

There's no place for the truth in the company of White Knights.

 

All The Best

 

I'm hoping that wasn't meant for me in particular

[dirtykid]

The end game shouldnt be free ....but only if end game keeps getting new content.

 

This!!! This is what makes it a bad business model. You have to sub for access to end-game content, but they haven't made any end-game content since SOR except for The Odessen WZ, which isn't truly end-game since I can run that @ level 10.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

That was an interesting read actually, thank you. But you didn't have to prove your point to me, and I think you've completely missed mine - I never suggested going F2P didn't ''save'' SWTOR, or that I agreed or disagreed with the sentiments of anyone that you replied to.

 

The point was that your accusation of strawmanning was ridiculous (I have already explained exactly why), and that your witch-hunting mentality here caused you to be unreasonable.

:

 

Read the full context of the post I replied to...

 

The poster quoted my post to make their statement which is then to imply I was somehow saying the game went F2P because it made no money. I mean why bother posting it in the manner they did, quoting me, if they weren't trying to imply this?

 

My statement quite clearly stated:

 

Yet if it weren't for F2P attracting players in the first place when the game was on it's way out shortly after launch you wouldn't be here spouting this vitriol.

 

No where does this say anything about the game making money. Just that the game was effectively on it's way out until F2P came along. Thus implying I was somehow saying it wasn't making money is indeed endeavouring to create a strawman argument based on my post.

 

Perhaps I was indeed taking it quite literally but it seems a fairly silly thing to imply that I was saying "the game was making no money" when they believed the game wasn't making enough money? How do you even get that from my statement? Clearly it's not "no money" and clearly it must be "enough money to stay open" which of course will be whatever goal EA have set.

 

Here you yourself get it right:

 

You implied that the game wasn't making enough money to stay open before it went F2P

 

The poster I quoted did not and it wasn't just a slip in terminology because they actually tried to correct me by saying "wasn't the amount EA/(BW?) wanted. " So again - how do you get "no money" vs "wasn't the amount EA/(BW?) wanted." from what I posted about the game being on the way out?

[Theeko]

I can see why ESO got the Most Improved award.

 

One Tamriel is, in my opinion, the best update to any MMO I have ever played. It even trumps the Mines Of Moria for LOTRO, that ever since it launched back in 2008 I had considered the best update ever.

 

One Tamriel brings ALL content to ALL players, in any order the player wants. Add in that ESO has just announced what looks to be the best Housing update since WIldstar's and it is easy to see why it won.

 

It's F2P model is also vastly superior to SWtOR's - even though it is not without issue.

 

Oh, and the New Life Festival is great fun, how a "holiday" event should be done IMO.

 

Just subbed to ESO for 3 months, that's 3 month's worth of Subs that SWtOR will not be getting - still is gives BWA 3 months to sort out the utter fiasco they have just created.

 

All The Best

 

Yeah I'm playing Eso again cause they got rid of the old crap vet system per character, CP system is way better and the game has definitely improved since the past, oh and you also forgot the best part about subbing in ESO

 

Craft Bag - Unlimited bag inventory for every single crafting material in the game, that saves so much gold and space you don't believe

Edited December 19, 2016 by Theeko

[Jeweledleah]

Yeah I'm playing Eso again cause they got rid of the old crap vet system per character, CP system is way better and the game has definitely improved since the past, oh and you also forgot the best part about subbing in ESO

 

Craft Bag - Unlimited bag inventory for every single crafting material in the game, that saves so much gold and space you don't believe

 

I love crafting bag more than words can describe. that said.. I still have all the inventory spaces unlocked on my main, because it basically allows me to be out in a world following my whims for much longer before I have to head over to crafting station/vendor for disassembly and stuffs. but otherwise... crafting bag is love.

 

and yeah, champion system being accountwide and accessible to alts pretty much immediately makes alting a LOT more fun. if only they would make horses also accountwide... (and I know mounts themselves are accountwide, but their speed/inventory/stamina boosts are not )

[Dilemmas]

 

Perhaps I was indeed taking it quite literally but it seems a fairly silly thing to imply that I was saying "the game was making no money" when they believed the game wasn't making enough money? How do you even get that from my statement? Clearly it's not "no money" and clearly it must be "enough money to stay open" which of course will be whatever goal EA have set.

 

-snip-

 

it wasn't just a slip in terminology because they actually tried to correct me by saying "wasn't the amount EA/(BW?) wanted. " So again - how do you get "no money" vs "wasn't the amount EA/(BW?) wanted." from what I posted about the game being on the way out?

 

First of all, I think it's logical to assume that when someone says the game ''wasn't making money'', that their meaning is along the lines of ''not profitable enough'', or; ''would not have been worth keeping open''.

By saying that the game is ''on its way out'' you suggest that the game is going to close. I doubt EA would shut something down if it's profitable enough to keep open (unless there are motives that we cannot ascertain), therefore by extension, it's reasonable to assume that you are implying that it is not profitable enough to keep open or, that it ''wasn't making money''.

 

So, the question is; would EA have kept the game open had it remained in its previous state - or was it just a push for reaching the profits that they had previously projected?

 

I don't care about the answer. The point is that taking things literally to a fault is pointless, and doesn't mean you can accuse someone of strawmanning you just because you refuse to read between the lines or consider the full implications of the things that you say.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Dilemmas

[PlasmaJohn]

ncsoft has been known to shutdown even profitable games(coh). They seem to have a brain dead board that doesnt have a clue.

There was much more going on between NCSoft management and the studio running CoH. If the financials were a factor they weren't the only reason it got shut down. If you poke around the 'net looking for articles regarding the closure it smells very much like corporate politics. IIRC there's even an interview floating around where some NCSoft exec admits closing it was a mistake.

 

I do believe that NCSoft has a much better clue how to run an MMO than EA. Unfortunately they're not so hot on what does and does not work in the West.

[TrixxieTriss]

Did they just move this back to the gen section because we caught them doing something shady and called them on it?

 

I guess they didn't want the bad publicity from doing it because people started to post about that on this forum, but also on third party forums

Edited December 19, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[JennyFlynn]

Did they just move this back to the gen section because we caught them doing something shady and called them on it?

 

I guess they didn't want the bad publicity from doing it because people started to post about that on this forum, but also on third party forums

 

I was just wondering the same, it's back in General now.. lol.

[Eshvara]

Did they just move this back to the gen section because we caught them doing something shady and called them on it?

 

I guess they didn't want the bad publicity from doing it because people started to post about that on this forum, but also on third party forums

 

This is quite interesting.

[TUXs]

Hadn't seen this posted so ...

 

http://massivelyop.com/2016/12/16/massively-ops-best-of-2016-awards-worst-mmo-business-model-2016/

 

Anyone surprised? I'm not.

I blame the "gang of 20"...they've obviously swayed the voting and are probably working for Putin.

[AllisonLightning]

This is quite interesting.

 

The game is in trouble and I'm betting EA isn't in the best mood having problems caused by the mismanagement and told them off. It's like I've said- they've put time and energy into increasing transparency and the forum sleight-of-hand tricks are against the current operating procedure. I wonder how much more of this EA will put up with.

[TUXs]

The game is in trouble and I'm betting EA isn't in the best mood having problems caused by the mismanagement and told them off. It's like I've said- they've put time and energy into increasing transparency and the forum sleight-of-hand tricks are against the current operating procedure. I wonder how much more of this EA will put up with.

I wish that were true...I just don't see EA caring one way or another. SWTOR has had its run, it's made its money...games are disposable to EA. Only Bioware should have any fear of this game closing, which they clearly don't have.

[TrixxieTriss]

I wish that were true...I just don't see EA caring one way or another. SWTOR has had its run, it's made its money...games are disposable to EA. Only Bioware should have any fear of this game closing, which they clearly don't have.

 

I think EA and Disney maybe a bit pissed off if the game closed while the new movie is out or not long after. I don't think they would be too pleased with bad publicity surrounding the SW ip.

Not saying the game isn't dying or that the Bio Devs care, just that I think EA might have to explain to Disney how they allowed this to happen, so maybe EA is just covering its butt for the next few months at least.

[AllisonLightning]

I wish that were true...I just don't see EA caring one way or another. SWTOR has had its run, it's made its money...games are disposable to EA. Only Bioware should have any fear of this game closing, which they clearly don't have.

 

True but they'll care if the game erodes their public relations campaign... I don't understand why Bioware Austin aren't more concerned- they'll be the ones without jobs.

[Eshvara]

I wish that were true...I just don't see EA caring one way or another. SWTOR has had its run, it's made its money...games are disposable to EA. Only Bioware should have any fear of this game closing, which they clearly don't have.

 

I don't think k this is true at all. Swtor isn't just a game you can abandon, it's related to Star wars, which is quite a title. They'll keep trying. They've dumped games before and if this wasn't star wars related this one would have bit the dust a long time ago.

 

And yes, I know about swg, but that wasn't ea.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Eshvara

[Jamtas]

True but they'll care if the game erodes their public relations campaign... I don't understand why Bioware Austin aren't more concerned- they'll be the ones without jobs.

 

They'll still have obs - they will just put these resources on another game. If the game does run its course this year, you will still never hear them say "we made this mistake, and this mistake, etc". You won't hear anything, tbh. But internally, it will be more of blaming the current state of MMOs, players "not ready" for what they wanted to do, or even blame some other entity.

Even on the things they have reversed, not once have we heard "our bad" it is been - "we totally agree with you and are doing this..."

[TrixxieTriss]

They'll still have obs - they will just put these resources on another game. If the game does run its course this year, you will still never hear them say "we made this mistake, and this mistake, etc". You won't hear anything, tbh. But internally, it will be more of blaming the current state of MMOs, players "not ready" for what they wanted to do, or even blame some other entity.

Even on the things they have reversed, not once have we heard "our bad" it is been - "we totally agree with you and are doing this..."

 

Some will probably be ballooned into other EA projects, but not all. I'd be neverous if I was them because EA have sacked way better people for no reason but to save money. Just because EA say they'll move them is no guarantee that they will or who they will keep.

[TUXs]

True but they'll care if the game erodes their public relations campaign... I don't understand why Bioware Austin aren't more concerned- they'll be the ones without jobs.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is if 2017 was the end for this game either way, which seems like the only logical conclusion. There's literally not ONE employee of Bioware Austin who seem to care any longer.

[TrixxieTriss]

The only thing that makes any sense to me is if 2017 was the end for this game either way, which seems like the only logical conclusion. There's literally not ONE employee of Bioware Austin who seem to care any longer.

 

Sometimes it certainly seems that way and those live streams seem to come across as an inside joke to them, like they are laughing behind our backs or as we say in Australia, taking the piss.

[Jamtas]

Some will probably be ballooned into other EA projects, but not all. I'd be neverous if I was them because EA have sacked way better people for no reason but to save money. Just because EA say they'll move them is no guarantee that they will or who they will keep.

 

Seeing the interview where James Ohlen showed his burnout and how he asked off the game, I'm sure that feeling is there across the board. They are prob just done with this game and want to move on. Knowing how held back this game is b/c of the engine, I can see everyone who is a developer just wanting out. Why spend your career making something that you can't do properly b/c of the restrictions?

[TUXs]

Sometimes it certainly seems that way and those live streams seem to come across as an inside joke to them, like they are laughing behind our backs or as we say in Australia, taking the piss.

I'm with ya...I've felt the exact same way.

[TrixxieTriss]

Seeing the interview where James Ohlen showed his burnout and how he asked off the game, I'm sure that feeling is there across the board. They are prob just done with this game and want to move on. Knowing how held back this game is b/c of the engine, I can see everyone who is a developer just wanting out. Why spend your career making something that you can't do properly b/c of the restrictions?

 

Easy solution, get another job, it's what the rest of us do if we feel that way.