Livestream Thoughts and Feedback

[Eshvara]

I think we know that would have just been rage at them.

 

Nahhhh, we're a civil bunch!

[DarthZaul]

Command rank doesn't need to be legacy wide. First of all get your head out of the clouds as they have always said over the years that making anything legacy wide is a long difficult engineering task. You would be waiting months and months for it.

 

This is how you gear an alt:

 

1) Get command rank and tokens on your main.

2) Do raids or PVP on your main to get unassembled tokens.

3) Mail the set piece and command tokens to your alt. (Repeat for all 7 set items and weapons)

4) Do Raids/PVP on your alt and buy the unassembled relics, Implants and earpice which you can't legacy mail.

 

Done. You have easily geared your alt.Your alts command rank is completely irrelevant and has no involvement whatsoever in the process.

Edited December 16, 2016 by DarthZaul

[Quraswren]

Yes! Exactly. They're rewarding people for doing harder content with tokens and drops now but still providing g a means to players that do not do that but want to gear. 4.0 you couldn't get full BiS gear as a solo. You couldn't go do heroics for bis gear.

 

And with the massive grind to get there and RNG. It's still very possible you still wont.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Quraswren

[Alssaran]

And with the massive grind to get there and RNG.

 

What grind and RNG?

 

You walk into an operation and get that piece you need. Then you take five - ten tokens from the stuff that drops from GC (which you can send from alts and only do the first levels without much grind) and get a set piece. What kind of RNG? The set token from the last boss is guaranteed. The Command Tokens are guaranteed from each crate you open, and they are granted retroactively.

 

What massive grind?

[americanaussie]

What grind and RNG?

 

You walk into an operation and get that piece you need. Then you take five - ten tokens from the stuff that drops from GC (which you can send from alts and only do the first levels without much grind) and get a set piece. What kind of RNG? The set token from the last boss is guaranteed. The Command Tokens are guaranteed from each crate you open, and they are granted retroactively.

 

What massive grind?

 

They must be a solo player who doesn't do anything but heroics and story or they do not understand. Do ops, get the gear you want. Do pvp, get the gear you want. You won't be rewarded for grinding heroics as you will for doing harder, group content.

[Soljin]

I have been on both sides of this thing and I feel this is a good adaptation to the new system. It is not exactly what some wanted but it does address several large issues. Add feedback and get over the fact that 4.0 gearing is gone and its not coming back.

 

We may however with positive feedback get something that functions similarly and can be adapted to work with the GC system.

 

The crates are fine if there is a baseline system to guarantee gear advancement at a reasonable pace. Now we are in a position to add feedback to what we would like that pace to be.....

 

Maybe it's time to accept 4.0 gearing is gone and start giving feedback to make 5.0 gearing as good or better.

[Quraswren]

What grind and RNG?

 

You walk into an operation and get that piece you need. Then you take five - ten tokens from the stuff that drops from GC (which you can send from alts and only do the first levels without much grind) and get a set piece. What kind of RNG? The set token from the last boss is guaranteed. The Command Tokens are guaranteed from each crate you open, and they are granted retroactively.

 

What massive grind?

 

You were talking about a means for players to get gear that do not do OPS. They will still be doing a massive grind as well as being subject to RNG. My point is that gamer still may not get what they think they will. IF they were going for inclusion, and the RNG is as bad as it is now. Just how included are they? Not too much I'd say.

 

Even walking into an ops you are not guaranteed anything and are still subject to RNG because every boss except the last one only has a chance at unassembled pieces to drop no matter how hard to set the difficulty. Tell bw you don't want RNG and they implement more? Whats the logic there?

 

Command tokens from crate. Sounds great until we find out the cost it takes per token along with the unassembled piece. You think it will be cost effective to the gamer? Not likely. I'd wager its 20 -30 command tokens per unassembled. That way you get 2-3 items you get to choose per Tier but are still forced to rely on the RNG of the crates for the rest.

 

I think you are trying to make a mediocre additions into something more than what it actually is given the information.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Quraswren

[Alssaran]

You were talking about a means for players to get gear that do not do OPS. They will still be doing a massive grind as well as being subject to RNG. My point is that gamer still may not get what they think they will. IF they were going for inclusion, and the RNG is as bad as it is now. Just how included are they? Not too much I'd say.

 

They can choose to rely on crafted gear to progress through the system. It leaves them out of any RNG factor. They can decide to farm crafting materials via PvP boxes, GC, Flashpoints and other activities such as conquest. There is no need to purely rely on RNG to acquire new mods/enhancements/barrels/hilts or left slot items.

 

The grind in 4.0 wasn't better. You still had to grind 1.350 Rare Data crystals for an entire 216 set. That was over 500 heroics (with two crystals per heroic). The old system wasn't that much more inclusive. What is it you want then? Get handed a set bonus armour set as soon as you ding 70?

 

Even walking into an ops you are not guaranteed anything and are still subject to RNG because every boss except the last one only has a chance at unassembled pieces to drop no matter how hard to set the difficulty. Tell bw you don't want RNG and they implement more? Whats the logic there?

 

Then let me get this straight. People are complaining that the reliance on RNG for gearing is bad. You could potentially gain ten items in a row that are duplicates and not gear your alt at all. What you get now is the possibility to step into an operation/PvP and actively pursue pieces you need. It kills the possibility of duplicates. You can trade them for any set item and send them to your alts. It makes equipping alts less of a chore. And the final is that you can get a guaranteed piece of token from every last boss - something that is a tremendous improvement to "no influence over gear drops, no safety against duplicates, no tokens" by a long shot. I can get a guaranteed piece of gear from every operation. I have a direct reward for my time.

 

And you're explaining that the way any other MMORPG has handled it for fifteen years (tokens from operation bosses) is suddenly "wrong" or "bad"? Are you drunk?

 

You don't care for what content you run? Do operations.

 

You don't want to do operations? Do PvP.

 

You don't want to do PvP? Gather crafting materials.

 

You don't want to gather crafting materials? Buy from the GTN.

 

You don't want to buy from the GTN? Tough luck.

 

You have ways to circumvent the RNG in the new system. If you do not want to take any of them, then it's on you.

 

Command tokens from crate. Sounds great until we find out the cost it takes per token along with the unassembled piece. You think it will be cost effective to the gamer? Not likely. I'd wager its 20 -30 command tokens per unassembled.

 

I bet against it. The fact they had such an emergency response shows that they are quite aware that the current system (i.g the heavy grind) isn't working. It will now largely depend on trial and error feedback. I think the amount of tokens needed will be between five to ten tokens.

 

But this exposes another thing: This entire paragraph of your rant is only about one thing - I do not trust Bioware to do it right. How about...you know...actually providing feedback in here and just see where it goes? Instead of bashing the concept of a system based on an unfinished and not even hinted at implementation of the variables?

 

I think you are trying to make a mediocre additions into something more than what it actually is given the information.

 

I'm making this change to be out just what it is. Prior to this change, all I had was a broken coffee maker. Now the coffee maker might not be the best, and it's still ugly, but at least I can choose which coffee I want. It works for a time. Whether the coffee is tasty? We still have to work on that. But at least I can have coffee.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Alssaran

[LordArtemis]

Though I do not particularly care for the OPs diatribe, I would like to comment in this thread.

 

I for one am happy to see the changes. They seem, on the face, to be very wise ones...not as much as I had hoped, but most certainly a likely fix to most folks concerns IMO.

 

Jury is still out of course based on some fuzzy details, but.....

 

Well done.

Edited December 16, 2016 by LordArtemis

[Andryah]

Solo players need gear for Master level FULL STOP.

Master level comes out next month. FULL STOP.

 

No idea if they will even be worth running or not on Master level. If the rewards are not commensurate to the difficulty... most people won't bother. Achievement hunters might.. but that's about it.

 

Also no idea exactly what gear is really needed for these. If they can be done with tier 1 gear, then they can also be done with fully augmented 228 gear as well.. which is cheap and easy to obtain.

 

Time will tell, and I am generally an optimist, but you are being too optimistic in this position right now.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Andryah

[AscendingSky]

Though I do not particularly care for the OPs diatribe, I would like to comment in this thread.

 

I for one am happy to see the changes. They seem, on the face, to be very wise ones...not as much as I had hoped, but most certainly a likely fix to most folks concerns IMO.

 

Jury is still out of course based on some fuzzy details, but.....

 

Well done.

 

That's my current feelings on the subject. There's still issues I feel haven't been addressed, but at least they're actually making real changes to address one of the biggest issues with the new system. I think they're overly complicating things in their solution, but at least they're offering a solution as opposed to 'our internal models say this is great' or 'we'll just keep monitoring'. It's some progress. It shows they did bend an ear and hear at least a little of what we've been saying.

[americanaussie]

No idea if they will even be worth running or not on Master level. If the rewards are not commensurate to the difficulty... most people won't bother. Achievement hunters might.. but that's about it.

 

Also no idea exactly what gear is really needed for these. If they can be done with tier 1 gear, then they can also be done with fully augmented 228 gear as well.. which is cheap and easy to obtain.

 

Time will tell, and I am generally an optimist, but you are being too optimistic in this position right now.

 

I can tell you there's about a 1/1000 chance I'll do master level. I doubt I'll finish veteran. I don't like it when skytroopers don't die easily. am I being optimistic? Yeah maybe but I see this as a step in the right direction which isn't bad. I'll pvp my way to new gear then try to get with my guild to teach me ops. Excited with these changes as it means they're listening. If the tokens need boosting they may listem then too. But I'm used to the grinding of heroics to get bloody crystals....ugh someone said 500 heroics for full set of 216. That's how many I did for 3 of my characters. If I ever do that again I'd rather gouge out my eyes. There's enough things now that I don't need to do just heroics. Yay!

[Andryah]

That's my current feelings on the subject. There's still issues I feel haven't been addressed, but at least they're actually making real changes to address one of the biggest issues with the new system. I think they're overly complicating things in their solution, but at least they're offering a solution as opposed to 'our internal models say this is great' or 'we'll just keep monitoring'. It's some progress. It shows they did bend an ear and hear at least a little of what we've been saying.

 

They addressed how to safeguard against bad results in opening crates. They addressed partially how to make it easier to gear alts.

 

What they have NOT addressed is the long term grind of GC... because you still need to grind for tokens. What they have NOT addressed is balancing Cxp in the various types of content such that players will play what they like rather then chase the low hanging fruit, or simply game the system with unintended play.

 

Some progress.. yes.. though people wanting top gear will now have to double grind for it... grind for tokens from crates and grind OPs or PvP for unassembled pieces.

There remains a lot of work to get GC stabilized and reasonably acceptable to bother with.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Andryah

[Toraak]

They need to do something with GSF like they are doing with PvP for those of us that like GSF as well as Operations.

[AscendingSky]

They addressed how to safeguard against bad results in opening crates. They addressed partially how to make it easier to gear alts.

 

What they have NOT addressed is the long term grind of GC... because you still need to grind for tokens. What they have NOT addressed is balancing Cxp in the various types of content such that players will play what they like rather then chase the low hanging fruit, or simply game the system with unintended play.

 

Some progress.. yes.. though people wanting top gear will now have to double grind for it... grind for tokens from crates and grind OPs or PvP for unassembled pieces.

There remains a lot of work to get GC stabilized and reasonably acceptable to bother with.

 

For once, you and I are both in full agreement. Join me and AmericanAussie for some drinks!

[KWONRYU]

In PvE

Unassembled Gear pieces are a guaranteed drop from the last boss of each Operation, with specific drops on a boss (Ex: Soa dropping chest).

Each other boss in an Operation has a chance to drop any token. Bosses that are later in an Operation have a higher chance then those early in the Op.

Turn in an Unassembled Gear piece along with Command Tokens (which come from Command Crates) to get that piece of gear.

 

LOVE THE UPCOMING CHANGES!

 

Now people really will be rewarded for delving deeper in the Dungeon/Operation so to speak!

[Gallandaeus]

So what have they fixed?

 

Nothing.

 

They've added an even more complex system for gearing up and given no indication as to how many tokens, components etc will be required in total to complete a set of gear.

 

They have NOT addressed the issue of the current system being extremely grindy.

 

They have NOT addressed the issue of the current system locking out Alts and Alt-Specs.

 

They have NOT addressed the RNG issues of the base system - which they are retaining.

 

They have NOT admitted they were wrong to ignore the pre-release feedback.

 

They have NOT listened at all to the majority of concerns about this system.

 

They learned nothing.

They've done almost nothing.

What little they have done has done nothing to address the core faults with the system.

 

Oh, but they did promise "exciting stuff" next month.

Been promising that for a year and we still haven't seen it.

 

 

All The Best

 

 

 

This is as close as you can get to a summary of the issue.

[Glower]

Tier 1: Valor 20

Tier 2: Valor 40

Tier 3: Valor 60

 

Should be unified. I don't want to grind valor 60 on my "old" insta-60 and my new insta-65 alts. We have better things to grind for in 5.1...

Edited December 16, 2016 by Glower

[OneHit]

So, the livestream hit annnndddddd.... The whiners and criers and doomsayers were completely wrong.

 

Cannot emphasize how much I am laughing right now at just how pathetic and stupid this livestream made the whiners look whose assumptions were dead wrong on every account. Not only are ways being added in to target gear for both pve and pvp, both setups are completely reasonable and perfectly fine. Job well done Bioware on the fixes. Now YES, it should have been this way from the start, but hindsight is 20/20 and the fixes are just fine.

 

I love the alternate reality you live in. The whiners and criers who said this will never work have just been proven correct. But some how they aren't because some form of RNG exists and you need to feel like you were right? Now you claim its hindsight. And not the foresight of the whiners and criers. I'm sorry sir. Now I'm the one LOLOLOLOLOL'ing

[Death-Hammer]

The pvp valor requirements.

 

So to this, they wanted ideas to the valor level requirements on tiers, what I think is reasonable is this.

 

Tier 1: Valor 20

Tier 2: Valor 40

Tier 3: Valor 60

 

These levels are reasonable, still require actual work put into PvP, but nothing too extreme like valor 100 req or anything.

 

I would say Valor levels should be more like

 

Tier 1: Valor 10

Tier 2: Valor 25

Tier 3: Valor 50

[Halinalle]

PVE != ops

 

It's not throwing snowballs and removing buff so someone else can get their thing + 20 CXP either.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Halinalle

[fishpeople]

So what have they fixed?

 

Nothing.

 

They've added an even more complex system for gearing up and given no indication as to how many tokens, components etc will be required in total to complete a set of gear.

 

They have NOT addressed the issue of the current system being extremely grindy.

 

They have NOT addressed the issue of the current system locking out Alts and Alt-Specs.

 

They have NOT addressed the RNG issues of the base system - which they are retaining.

 

They have NOT admitted they were wrong to ignore the pre-release feedback.

 

They have NOT listened at all to the majority of concerns about this system.

 

They learned nothing.

They've done almost nothing.

What little they have done has done nothing to address the core faults with the system.

 

Oh, but they did promise "exciting stuff" next month.

Been promising that for a year and we still haven't seen it.

 

 

All The Best

 

That.

[abigfishy]

You realize those changes are only there because of the whiners and criers right? If no one complained then there would have been no changes.

 

Correct. But overall this is a fantastic change. Thanks Charles, Ben and Musco for listening to us. Despite what some have said I think that this will solve what was by far the biggest problem the RNG system making it too hard to get a complete set. It also greatly revalues doing Ops.

[americanaussie]

Ok...there's something that bothers me to a degree. People complain that gc is grindy. 4.0 crystals vIA heroics = OMG I'M GONNA DIE FROM GRINDY. Now I can do various things from GSF to uprisings to pvp to story to ops. I don't consider pvp grindy. I've yet to do an Uprising or ops but I don't consider those grindy. Are they grindy to you because you're bored of the entire game? If so, take a break. I mean they've now given us the ability to get specific pieces. Sure I don't know if it'll be 15 pvp matches or 1500 pvp matches but right now the only thing I think it's god awful grind is heroics. If you're complaining but having to do any aspect of the game to get gear well guess what, they aren't going to hand you a full BiS set upon log in of new xpac.

 

They have said we will be getting new content soon but the people who are still complaining are the same ones that make statements that there's nothing new in the game hours after 9 new chapters drop. You're the equivalent of my 5 yr old who has a room full of toys and nothing to play with. Either give the new content a chance and offer ways to improve it or go on your merry way to another game.

 

The devs seem to be trying to listen so post what you want (it's good not to insult them when doing so) and maybe you'll see your idea come to life. There's more than just 5 uprisings coming in the months ahead. Hopefully it'll be something everyone will find fun.

Edited December 16, 2016 by americanaussie

[abigfishy]

So what have they fixed?

 

Nothing.

 

They've added an even more complex system for gearing up and given no indication as to how many tokens, components etc will be required in total to complete a set of gear.

 

They have NOT addressed the issue of the current system being extremely grindy.

 

They have NOT addressed the issue of the current system locking out Alts and Alt-Specs.

 

They have NOT addressed the RNG issues of the base system - which they are retaining.

 

They have NOT admitted they were wrong to ignore the pre-release feedback.

 

They have NOT listened at all to the majority of concerns about this system.

 

They learned nothing.

They've done almost nothing.

What little they have done has done nothing to address the core faults with the system.

 

Oh, but they did promise "exciting stuff" next month.

Been promising that for a year and we still haven't seen it.

 

 

All The Best

 

Wrong.

 

This will make it a lot less grindy, once you only need a couple of pieces you do the specific Ops to get those pieces.

 

The tokens will be legacy wide so it will be MUCH easier to gear alts in addition to putting stuff in legacy gear.

 

The base system was horrible alone, but now it is a base to get fun random stuff and this new system will fill in the pieces that you miss.

 

They were wrong to ignore the pre-release feedback but now they have.

 

They obviously have listened, seems dishonest to claim that they haven't.