Changes to Gearing through Galactic Command

[DarthSpuds]

Proof? I doubt F2P or Pref spend more $ on the cartel market then subs.

 

Read post #321 above.

 

The game was financially dead - the only thing that saved it was Cartel Store purchases by F2P and Premium players.

 

It's a fact, and anyone who has been here any length of time, and/or has bothered researching the subject already knows that.

 

All The Best

[Tsillah]

Read post #321 above.

 

The game was financially dead - the only thing that saved it was Cartel Store purchases by F2P and Premium players.

 

It's a fact, and anyone who has been here any length of time, and/or has bothered researching the subject already knows that.

 

All The Best

 

It's true, but the more interesting question is if F2P is still that much of a benefit today as it was back then?

 

It could be but I do wonder if it still is considering BWA's decision on endgame being sub only.

[Toraak]

My problems and questions I'd like answered:

 

1) The grind is too long. Why grind for a hundred hours just so I can start getting some HM gear to do the content we've all done dozens of times already? The amount of grind ahead of me just keeps me from even starting, especially when there's no goal to getting the gear.

 

2) RNG coupled with the slow rate of packs being handed out. I don't want to run Black Talon in tactical (veteran) mode 800 times to start getting good gear. I'd much rather do a few operations and start earning my gear the traditional way, but that'll barely get me to level 30, if I run them all on SM and HM.

 

3) Gear isn't enough to be all the replayable content for an entire expansion (again), Uprisings aren't that much fun in the long term, and replayable chapters are cute at best when they're tuned for the gear you need to grind a year to get. I, we, need to start seeing some real commitments here. "Maybe we'll say something in the general direction of group content in January, this isn't a promise of anything hint hint wink wink" is not an acceptable answer anymore.

 

4) Why was this even created? Why take away the other gear from the original sources? Was it only to retain subsmium players? Was it to slow down the gearing process until you had something solid to present? What's the real intention here? How is this better for me, as a player, than 4.0 was? Communicate.

 

5) Did you really forget the PvP bag fiasco of Vanilla? Or NiM loot issue of 4.0? You really couldn't have.

 

I'll end with a quote.

 

Now these are good comments. The problem is we're not seeing new Operations/PvP/GSF content come out, so is doing this Galactic Command system for gear even worth it? Now that is something each and every person has to decide for ourselves.

 

I'll admit, I've been pushing myself hard doing PvP to grind to 90 so far, but I'm starting to wonder, with no new Operations why am I bothering? I play to do Operations only, I do not like PvP (but it is the fastest CXP now) so personally I don't gear for PvP, so Operations are the only reason for me to gear at all, and with no new Operations I have to ask if I'm wasting my time.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Read post #321 above.

 

The game was financially dead - the only thing that saved it was Cartel Store purchases by F2P and Premium players.

 

It's a fact, and anyone who has been here any length of time, and/or has bothered researching the subject already knows that.

 

All The Best

 

You do need to attribute an unknown portion of that to people trailing the game as F2P and becoming sub as they were happy to do so after or during their F2P period. The trial itself did not achieve this, I did beta and the trial and just still didn't feel like subbing but after I did the majority of my first class story I really felt like paying for the game ( the first MMO I had ever paid for ).

 

In short we have no idea ( I believe? ) what portion of purchases was made by pure F2P/Preferred or what was from subs who became subs after being F2P/Preferred and how much subs jumped over time from having a F2P/Preferred system.

 

Afaik all we can really say factually is moving to a F2P/Preferred model saved the game. Though I guess there could be more definitive statistics released out there?

[DarthSpuds]

It could be but I do wonder if it still is considering BWA's decision on endgame being sub only.

 

And this is just another example of Bioware's inability to engage in joined up thinking.

 

F2P saves the game, exclude F2P from new end-game content.

 

DvL incentivises players to play Alts, 5.0 punishes Alts like no other expansion.

 

It seems Bioware are incapable of keeping a thought train going beyond six months.

 

All The Best

[Dunderheid]

I started as f2p, and purchased CC, quite a lot as I recall, then realised it would be cheaper to sub (after 4-5 months), so I did, and my purchase of CC fell off, partly because of the grant, partly because I didn't need to buy them so much because of the other perks of subbing.

 

Now I have played Knights of both and have no desire to replay them, so since I have no need of BiS gear, perhaps I should just revert to preferred?

[Transcendent]

It's true, but the more interesting question is if F2P is still that much of a benefit today as it was back then?

 

It could be but I do wonder if it still is considering BWA's decision on endgame being sub only.

 

Well, going by posts on this very forum and elsewhere there is an intrinsic value to having F2P players. By that I mean they give their friends credits to buy Ops / Wz passes and participate in the end-game content with those subscribers. So if anything, helping to retain those still subscribed.

 

GC however locks the F2P / Pref players out of end-game, let alone we no longer have those passes available. I don't see it as the wisest course of action from my own viewpoint.

[AscendingSky]

As a paying customer? Nope. I'll be polite and point out the problems with the system, and make suggestions on how to resolve the issues.

 

I don't have to meet them half way though. If they don't fix it, it's not my job on the line. They can either resolve the problems by taking any number of the suggestions given to them by numerous paying customers, or they can carry on as though it's business as usual. Choices matter after all.

 

Pretty much this. It isn't about customers being entitled (at least in this case; there are other times I would agree wtih the 'entitled' argument). It's the fact that the MMO market has lots of different options for customers to select from. The onus is on EAWare to change and adapt based on their customer feedback and their revenue stream, not on customers to 'accept' anything put out by EAWare or to try to 'negotiate' for a few tweaks to be made to a system they hate. We haven't signed a contract with them. We can just go somewhere else. That's simply the reality of the market.

Edited December 14, 2016 by AscendingSky

[Wayshuba]

And how do you know what a typical subscriber spends in the CM? As a sub I bought multiple hypercrates each time around. Why wouldn't I be typical? Your comments here do reek of assumptions, since I don't believe you can back this up. I mean sure if a F2P player buys a crate he spends more than a sub costs. But how many F2P players actually do this? I have no idea. Do you?

 

I don't know, but BW did admit that they were a big part of the reason the game was saved. Not making assumptions, just saying that there is factual history.

 

Fact of the matter is, BW themselves admitted that without F2P and, as a result the doubling of players then, the game would have shut down.

 

Guess we will have to just wait and see if this time is different from the last time.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Wayshuba

[Wayshuba]

I was there and I remember this. F2P + CM did save the game at that point. In addition I'd like to mention that there were a lot of complaints of not enough to do and content not coming out fast enough and so people quit because of the feeling that the sub they paid wasn't worth it anymore. If anything, this is what paved the way to F2P.

 

As I mentioned, there were many issues cited. The lack of end game content was one of them because BW admitted, at the guild summit, that they thought people would play through all the stories first and they would have time to develop EG content.

 

That being said, are we any better off today? The last Op or FP was over two years ago now. So the EG has been played to death unless you just recently started in SWTOR. So now they rub it into your face by putting a grind gate to get back to content many have already done before.

 

Are the issues really that much different than the 1.x era? Lack of NEW end game content for anyone who has been in SWTOR two years or more and ridiculous RNG. Same problems that lead to this game being on deaths doorstep in 2012. The only difference is, they do not have F2P to save them this time.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Wayshuba

[Jamtas]

As I mentioned, there were many issues cited. The lack of end game content was one of them because BW admitted, at the guild summit, that they thought people would play through all the stories first and they would have time to develop EG content.

 

That being said, are we any better off today? The last Op or FP was over two years ago now. So the EG has been played to death unless you just recently started in SWTOR. So now they rub it into your face by putting a grind gate to get back to content many have already done before.

 

Are the issues really that much different than the 1.x era? Lack of NEW end game content for anyone who has been in SWTOR two years or more and ridiculous RNG. Same problems that lead to this game being on deaths doorstep in 2012. The only difference is, they do not have F2P to save them this time.

 

they kind of do have a ftp salivation. open GC to preferred and the loss of subs could be lessened.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Jamtas

[Avinler]

Developers journal. The person that designed this system should write a letter to the community explaining the idea behind the system, why it was implemented, and what the goals are for the system.

 

Even when protected behind NDA's there has been no willingness to have an honest conversation about the rationale and goals are for the Galactic Command. That silence speaks volumes.

[Avinler]

4) Why was this even created? Why take away the other gear from the original sources? Was it only to retain subsmium players? Was it to slow down the gearing process until you had something solid to present? What's the real intention here? How is this better for me, as a player, than 4.0 was? Communicate.

 

Bravo. Well said.

[ZeroTypeR]

I spent a lot of years as a Product Manager before starting my own businesses (and then I had a dual role as product manager then) and I still have never forgot something my boss said to me a little over twenty years ago.

 

We had worked hard for almost two years getting a ground-breaking (for our industry) product out the door. As we were coming to the trade show where we would officially announce it, I was so proud of what we done and the team for the accomplishment. Then he told me the magic words, "You do realize once you launch this product, it is no longer yours and it becomes your customers." I thought I knew what he meant then, I was only 29 at the time, but I didn't and came to understand after.

 

We had a five year road map for the product, but once customers got a hold of it the feedback lead us on a different road map. It was tough to see what you wanted to do with it versus what your customers wanted to do with it, but at the end of the day, my boss was right.

 

The CEO of T-Mobile was once asked in an interview for any tips of business success, he said there was only one - "Listen to your customers, and when you give them what they want, don't be surprised when you make a lot of money."

 

The sure fire way to fail in any business is to give your customers what YOU think they want instead of what they tell you they want. All you can do is start the initial journey, they then guide you the rest of the way.

 

I agree ^

[Radzkie]

I was surprised when they decided to limit F2P/pref so much.

 

Not that it's big to them, but I know three people who played casually as preferred and bought a lot of CC when it tickled their fancy. Since they can't progress gear-wise as preferred, they've gave the game a middle finger and stopped playing. Not sure why they wont just sub but... Well I kind of get it. The games in a strange place. It's almost like it's backtracked in some areas and leaped forward light years in others.

[AscendingSky]

I was surprised when they decided to limit F2P/pref so much.

 

Not that it's big to them, but I know three people who played casually as preferred and bought a lot of CC when it tickled their fancy. Since they can't progress gear-wise as preferred, they've gave the game a middle finger and stopped playing. Not sure why they wont just sub but... Well I kind of get it. The games in a strange place. It's almost like it's backtracked in some areas and leaped forward light years in others.

 

Probably because life has always been pretty miserable for F2P/Preferred players (hell, just being able to turn off your headpiece or color match requires a cartel purchase then) and now they've blocked them off from the entire endgame. Which I think is silly... I know a lot of guilds who would regularly purchase ops passes for their Preferred members to bring them along on ops runs. Now that option isn't even available, so that revenue for EAWare is gone.

[raptorsystems]

@EricMusco

The changes in 5.0a increased the grind nature of getting CXP, as now there is no real reason to do a full clear (to kill all the golds) in any OP, FP, Heroic (instance), etc. We've seen this concept followed through on 5.0.1 with the reduction of values to (certain) champions.

 

As a regular player (few hours every weekday, more on weekends) it has taken 17 days to gain 40 levels of CXP by min-maximising (minimum effort for maximised outcome), and I've barely managed to scrape together ~230 tanking gear (entry level), and even this would not be possible if I were not working with multiple groups/guilds. So I look forward to these changes, but the proof is in the pudding, and I won't be re-subbing on the promise that things will get better (which is the general consensus of the people I know, not just the 20% who resist change).

 

Based on what others have stated, you have until the end of January to deliver before it starts significantly affecting the cost/profit of SWTOR.

[LordArtemis]

I would like to amend my original suggestion. After discussing the situation with a few of my friends and reading some of the suggestions in this thread, this is what we all came up with.

 

The entire command system would remain a subscriber system only.

 

1) Return top tier armor to all hard content, IE Ops, Hard Mode Flashpoints, PVP, etc., or at least have tokens drop and put a vendor on Odessen for the armor. Remove top tier with set bonus from command system loot tables.

 

2) Remove command level cap, or increase to something like 5000, make it LEGACY WIDE, and offer a .005% increase in secondary stats for every level gained (with a maximum boost of 25% allowed).

 

3) Substantially increase CXP payout from all sources, and drastically reduce weekly CXP cap.

 

4) Have levels decay over time, say a loss of 300 command levels every 30 days of inactivity, or something to that effect.

 

5) Open up the loot tables for the command system to include ALL ITEMS FROM THE CARTEL MARKET, past and present. So each pack that drops would get a chance for one ultra rare item, one rare item, one standard item and one random low value item, as well as the current armor table (minus the very top tier with set bonus of course).

 

This means the system would have a chance to drop rare crafting materials (isotopes), cartel certs, rep items, jawa junk, armor sets that come in packs, mounts, dyes, weapons, etc.

 

By making this change, you essentially create a perfect system for casual players, with a small chance to get entry level hard mode gear, give crafters a source for crafting materials, and an opportunity to get a few rare items from the market without the need to purchase packs, as a reward for their sub.

 

This would not only ENCOURAGE a sub IMO, it would also likely make most hardcore players happy. A win for the entire playerbase IMO.

Edited December 15, 2016 by LordArtemis

[CopperLord]

I think I'm done. I don't like the randomness of the crates. I bought a few when I first started playing, and quickly realized is was a complete waste. Now that system is the "reward", and I'm not willing to play it out. They continually adjust crap so that if I want to advance, then I have to play what they want me to play. I don't like pvp. Looks like a lot of people don't, so they made that worth the most CP. I found a nice way to get a group and level up my commander rank in KP, and then they only nerf those champ because they want me to play a different way. These are my frustrations. The game is not longer something I enjoy. I too will vote with my feet. My current sub expires on 25 Dec, and I will not renew. I'll just play out the rest of my characters stories, and see how that goes. I'll keep an eye on the game, and If anything good happens, then I might sub up just for that.

[sethdil]

I think I'm done. I don't like the randomness of the crates.

 

This is pretty much how I feel. The change to the gearing system has me frustrated. 16 command crates between 2 characters (8 per toon) and I have 2 ok schematics that was worth while. No descent armor, not even ok armor or set pieces the command system for me has been a complete fail.

 

Things that need to change in my opinion

The orange gear needs removed from the command crates, there's already enough ways to get crap oranges (if you want to make orange gear drop inside the command crates make it cartel market items like Revan set or something worth the reason to have it in there.)

 

Eliminate the junk drops inside command crates, Gearing (non set pieces) before was just a matter of time by collecting the crystals now it is up to the RNG gods if you even get gear at all. This is not a good change.

 

Instead of taking every aspect of the game and turning it into online gambling consider some alternative options

[gabigool]

Dear Eric,

 

I've thought a lot about this the last couple of days, trying to come to some consensus within myself on what I would see as the step forward. I recognise that a foundation has been laid in the game with Galactic Command that is not something one would casually rip out again and although I am not a fan of the reward system, I do recognise the concept of rewarding various activities in the game.

 

Before going into possible ideas, as many have already done here, I would like to first address what I would see as root causes for the current unhappiness as expressed by various people in various ways, cancelling subs being the most powerful message that we know how to make.

 

Why are the people who are not happy with this so unhappy?

 

First of all some historical references have to be made. There are people here who have played this game for 5 years or a good portion thereof. I've probably been subbed somewhere near there 4.5 mark as I did take a couple of breaks. It is also important to recognise that there are people who are considered raiders. A good chunck of this demographic has already been chased away, starting at the release of the game. I do remember the E3 video in 2011 that mentioned raids...not operations, but raids. I always wondered if you knew what you were getting yourself into with that content type promise.

 

Why do I bring these people up? Well, they've played this game and the aspects of it for a long time and by now even some of the more patient players have seen it all as the expression goes. This is important in the point of retention, because since you stopped making a lot of content after SoR was released, even if you say that raids are not the way to go anymore, there was also nothing coming back in return for it. So instead of replacing certain content types with something new, you simply brought out less and less content to the point where KotET doesn't even have a new explorable planet and as a side example it's been a while since we've seen a new stronghold. Both these items are examples outside of raids of content that has not been getting much in the way of additions or innovations.

 

So what kept people playing in KotFE after a so-called rehash of old content by upping Flash Points and Operations alike to level 70 bolstering Story Mode Operations and emphasizing the tactical Flash Points? Well, there was a good turn-over on rewards in Operations. I think that's what kept what is left of the raiding community going in KotFE. Some of us learned new ways of creating content by gearing up alts and having them do the harder content as well. It was in fact quite fun to be able to not just heal (my main role) but also DPS and Tank HM/NiM content.

 

The story of KotFE itself got very mixed reviews from players. Aside from personal judgements, there is an objective change in going to a single story line for all. In essence it makes it like other MMOs that also tend to have single story lines. With that move, you finally completely lost what made SWTOR unique: class stories. There may be clear reasons for you to choose this direction (budgets being the favourite guess here), but reasons aside, the reality is there. The quality of the story has also been questioned by many but what's more important is that the replay value of a single story line is a lot smaller.

 

And this is what the key issue is in KotET as well. A lack of replay value. I have gone as far as to say that you guys have created quite a bit of content over the years, when you did create it, that had very little replay value. Except for Operations. This has always struck me as odd. Why make something like 30 Flash Points, but not give a reason to play them repeatedly? Strongholds are cool, but once completed, there is very little reason to empty them and start again. This is in large part due to a lack of options (colour skins for the strongholds for example) and the difficult distribution of new decorations because they are subject to Cartel Pack rarities. PvP has had no innovation. I could mention Odessen as an innovation as well as GSF, but also GSF has been abandoned by now. I think you expected more from it, but then so did we. It's poorly balanced and there are very few maps. I could go on but I don't want to make this post even longer than it is already going to be. I hope though that you can understand that lack of replay value is particularly bad in a game that doesn't get a lot more new content in it...for whatever reason.

 

All of this I write to you in order to show to you why the lack of replay value adds to slow trickle of new content in giving people less and less reason to play this game. Aside from the fact that it is the only Star Wars MMO on the market. I humbly submit that this fact alone, probably is instrumental in the game not completely falling flat on its face.

 

So I thought, well, perhaps BWA saw the same issue. Perhaps you are unable due to budget cuts or whatever restrictive reasons to bring out a more healthy stream of new content and innovation and were really trying hard to find a way to make the game have more replay value. You probably looked at the point that many people were not doing various activities in the game. Like say HM FPs. You probably recognised that people were skipping through convo's in FPs especially and so you came up with the idea of story-free Flash Points called Uprisings. And you wanted to reward people for playing the game, no matter what their preferred playstyle was. I'd say that I can imagine that you set off on the road to 5.0 with the best of intentions, but as they saying goes "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". You can't fix problems by addressing symptoms, you need to look at the root causes.

 

So when you decided on tying endgame gearing into this new reward system, you probably noticed that there was a tricky balance between the leveling rate and the rewards. If players gain levels to quickly, they'll be done in a month. So you made it character specific, but in doing so you destroyed content that people came up with by gearing alts as I described above. So instead of adding replay value, you took the alting content away from a fair number of people who enjoyed this before. Therefore doing this, didn't really give a good balance. The new system was supposed to add and have a positive balance in "things to do, but instead, for those who play many alts, you created a negative balance. These people like variation and the idea of just playing one alt is a boring one in my mind.

 

Of course there is another problem. By making the drop chance of what people have considered decent to good gear rather low, the feeling of being reward is equally low and as soon as people open more of them and are generally disappointed it also affects the positive feeling a player might get from reaching the next GC level. And this then negatively affects what people do to reach these levels, putting their noses in the fact that they have to grind for months to be able to do exactly the same content we were already doing for years. This, I believe is a mayor issue.

 

It makes GC leveling something that is not exciting for a lot of people. And because it's linked to engame gearing, even the people who, for years, have avoided the whole progression gearing, since they don't care for it, are now confronted with the pull of endgame gear, whether they like it or not. I'm not sure if that side of it was considered.

 

Also the other rewards from the gearboxes are often referred to as disappointing or filler. The simple explanation for it, is that because it is tied to endgear, people do not care for whatever else it drops. I generalise but I think this rings true for a lot of people. Again, it adds to the general lack of excitement people feel from opening boxes.

 

Then there is the inequality in the system people may feel. We all get one box per level and that makes us equal, but as soon as we open them, the equality is gone. People care about the outcome more and that's where people feel it's not fair that some people have 4 set bonuses out of 20 boxes and they have 1 after 70 boxes. This is inherent in RNG with low drop rates of what people actually want and it's what demotivates too many people.

 

Now, if the purpose is to make a system that's exciting, rewarding and gives people the feeling there's a lot for them to do, I fear this system fails its purpose as many do not experience it as exciting, many do not feel it's very rewarding and instead of feeling there's a lot to do, it feels to them that there is too much to do to achieve their goals together with the uncertainty if they are even going to be able to achieve those goals at all, even if they had the time.

 

We see the results in the way people are playing the game currently. Now I'm sure a lot of people are still trodding along and the game isn't dying. But when I read about people just afk'ing in warzones (or doing very little), quit ranked warzones early to be more efficient, grind gold mobs in heroic areas (now nerfed) and then gring champions in KP HM (now stealth nerfed), it's clear that a lot of people have recognised the grind and instead of focusing on enjoying the game for what it is, they are going for extreme efficiency to combat the lenghty grind. And by nerfing the PvE actvities you again take content away from people and possibly making more people give up. Also, you probably don't have an answer for the PvP issues, but that also can't go on too long before the effects become too detrimental.

 

And here's the thing. There is only one reason in my view why all of this is not panning out as you may have wanted. It's by tying GC to endgame gearing and making it the only system to provide BiS gear. There is the root cause as I see it.

 

So here's my suggestion. You need to make endgame gearing possible outside GC. Why? Because it will take the pressure off GC first of all. It can still continue as is with the rest of the rewards like schematics, green and blue gear etc. AND it can continue to be the only source for legendary gear. I think that's an important element. It may even still drop the purple gear as it does now if it helps solo players and alike.

 

But for PvP and Operations/Flash Points there needs to be a separate system for progression gearing that is reliable and this will take the pressure of progression raiding away from GC. It can be with a universal token system. You can even tie it to GC in the sense of requiring the right GC level to be able to purchase tier 1,2 and 3 gear but the connection should stop there. There can be any other type of systemt that gives reliable gear progression for people who want to do the harder content so they are not gated by an unknown amount of time to gear up nor be presented with gearing gaps between team members and can progress their alts as well and enjoy the full scope of progression endgame. I would also suggest that you do not put EV and KP HM at the same level as the other HM Operations or that you actually up the damage output of bosses at least to make them more challenging and deserving of rewards, but that's another topic.

 

Galactic Command should be fun. And I truly believe that by creating a separate system for progression gearing this can be achieved. GC can still offer the same rewards or you can take out the purple quality gear as you see fit. I do not wish to take that away from non progression players who would like this gear. But important in this I think is that legendary gear, as it's not required for progression gearing, should be kept in GC only. That will keep it exciting. Also if indeed artifact gear drops both in the progression system and GC, this also addresses gearing alts in part or it may need some balancing because particularly tier 3 gear, does not have to be as easily accessible as in 4.0 I think we all can agree that the priority ops system was a bit too much, especially in EV and KP. There is no issue with getting tier 3 together at a slower pace. Tier 1 and 2 need to go faster than now because of the progression being stifled now.

 

Also GC levels should come a bit faster and people should be allowed to play the way they want, even if that means grinding mobs so I would advise against nerfing those things too much. You can't just keep taking things away without giving something back that people want. Upping uprising rewards was necessary but it's still not as good as PvP especially since PvP has very little risk vs reward. You can bum around, lose the match and still go home with a lot of points. PvE doesn't offer this but is the side of the game that gets nerfed. There needs to be a more balanced approach.

 

So there it is. A long post but I hope that I've been calm and reasonable in my approach. I have no doubt not everybody will like my ideas but hopefully people can see some merit in how I feel and think about the current situation.

 

If you managed to read all of it, thank you for your patience.

 

Thank you for writing this.

 

I really hope the entire BW team reads this post slowly and carefully.

[doelow]

What time is the livestream? I didn't see the time in Eric's post.

 

Edit: N/m. Saw the sticky.

Edited December 15, 2016 by doelow

[AdrianDmitruk]

Above all, I would like to see an admission that this entire fiasco could well have been avoided had the Bioware dev team listened to feedback before now.

 

The last stream was beyond terrible. "We are monitoring the situation to see if we need to have a catchup for unlucky people" was complete and utter bantha dung. This should have been known ahead of 5.0 to anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of probability and statistics.

 

The wonderful thing about probability is that it can be calculated ahead of time. The effects of RNG upon a large population can be estimated accurately ahead of time.

 

There was no reason for Bioware to not do this. In the last stream one of the devs (I believe Ben but not 100% sure) said that their "models" said that bad luck was not expected to be a problem and that they were "monitoring the situation." That was a grave error and probably one of the large drivers of cancelled subs and the announcement of another panic-induced livestream only a week later.

 

So, that said, let us bring some of this math that Bioware should have done ahead of time into this feedback (note that for ease of typing I'm going to round probabilities to the nearest tenth of 1 percent):

 

Let us suppose that any command crate that does not contain a set bonus is deemed a failure by the player opening the crate. Let us further assume the chance of a set bonus dropping is 5%, or .05. (We don't have the exact chance, but the community seems to widely believe it is 5%, if that is an error Bioware is more than welcome to substitute what the drop rate should be; they aren't releasing that info to us that I've seen.)

 

So the probability of failure to obtain set bonus from crate= 1-0.05=0.95

 

Probability of failure to obtain any one set bonus item after 30 crates = 0.95^30 = .215 or 21.5%

 

After 50 crates = 0.95^50 = .077 or 7.7%

 

After 100 crates = 0.95^100 = .006 or 0.6%

 

Now a player failing to obtain a set bonus after reaching 100 galactic command level is obviously an extreme example. But over the entire player population, it will happen, and more importantly, competent devs would expect it to happen to about 600 players out of every 100,000. This brings up a couple of important game design questions:

 

In what world do this game's developers consider it acceptable to condemn 600 players per 100,000 to NEVER get a set bonus after having reached command level 100? More importantly, in what world do the developers actually expect a reasonable player to stick around to CL 100, having earned no tangible reward for playing the endgame for that long, instead of leaving for a different game?

 

How long were the devs expecting the unlucky people to stick around? Hell I'd spent probably about 50 hours pvping to get to CL 30. I finally got a set drop around CL 27, so I just missed being in the bottom 21.5% for ****** RNG. Just. A typical operation takes an hour or two depending on group quality and had 3 1-in-8 chances of dropping a set piece (typically the first two bosses don't drop set piece so not counting those). If someone is in a raid group with a trusted master looter, said player would only need to run a couple ops, maybe 3 hours, before getting a set piece. In what world do the devs believe they can expect someone in the bottom 21.5% for luck to stick around for even 30 CLs of nothing, when they can go play another MMO where raiding still rewards gear for boss kills directly?

 

Also note that I only considered the most pessimistic scenario--failure to win any set piece. But the minimum set bonus requires two pieces. So there is a second population of players out there that will only ever have one set bonus item and therefore will never win a set bonus under the existing system that I did not consider. The number of players who will get screwed by RNG will be larger than the math that I did at first makes it appear. Honestly, Bioware should be paying someone on their staff to do this stuff instead of leaving the players to do it.

 

A competent dev team would have considered these questions before 5.0 even hit test server, and planned built-in safeguards and bypasses for the worst of RNG no later than 5.0 launch. The glaring omission of such discussion on last week's devstream was very telling. The last known communication from the devs indicates that they still did not believe that such considerations were necessary last week (but oh, they were "monitoring it" to try to keep the outrage down), and only now is Bioware even considering these questions, let alone finding solutions to them.

 

Oh well, it's their paychecks, not mine.

Edited December 15, 2016 by AdrianDmitruk

[Limariko]

I knew no matter what state the GC was in at the time it went live, that it was going to need some serious tweaking simply because no matter how much thought went into thinking they had most of the problem issues that could happen be covered, where the playerbase is concerned, there is never enough preparation put into it.

 

To start, for the purposes of disclosure, it's only been over the past few days I've been able to throw some lengthy time into playing as my finals are over and from first mention, I do like the concept of GC allowing any content as progress towards the best possible gear.

 

With that said, going from what I've seen in the crates I've seen and getting a couple set pieces out of them:

 

1) I'm getting an insane amount of orange gear that I simply will never use due to the amount of cartel market oranges and legacy gear I already have.

 

2) The amount of CXP earned for doing things is terribly low. I understand wanting to try to balance it out with the GC levels to make it last as long as possible considering there are players who will tear through levels at a scary pace of rapidity, the rest of us shouldn't have to endure extra difficulties because of them. It's part of existence for MMOs that no matter how much thought and planning goes into making sure whatever content is going to last long enough to warrant the amount of resources put into it, it will never be enough and there will always be a subset of players who will do whatever it takes to speed through it to cap. There has to be some balance to award CXP in amounts that one can feel they're making steady progress, yet not feel like they're earning too much and have to worry about the CXP cap.

 

3) Going from what I've gotten in crates asides from the orange gear and set pieces, some implants that were clear upgrades, I've gotten assorted scrap, a pet, schematics and some rep tokens. The rep tokens were a very pleasant surprise considering I haven't done much towards working on reputation so far. I also was pleased with the pet. With that said, I'd love to see more things like pets, decorations, mounts, relics, or even stuff that's been out of CM circulation save for when an old crate series gets pulled out of mothballs show up in the GC crates. I'd even like to see the chance of armor sets like Revan's be possible or even rare chances for the stuff like the Wings of the Architect to drop. I'd even be open for any Light or Dark tokens to be a possibility.

 

4) Kinda tying in with point 2, with how the CXP is currently, I cringe when I start to think of having to start over from the beginning with my alts even though getting set piece gear only holds appeal to me in the aspect of making my doing non-raid content smoother. I would like to see it made Legacywide.

 

5) Considering my attitude about the set piece gear said in 4, and going with what pieces I've gotten so far, I can easily see there being a substantial portion of the playerbase getting the lousy end of the RNG results and either get no gear or a bunch of repeating gear like all hats. There should be a balance to cover this whether it's keeping track of what a player's gotten on a character and ensuring that they won't get repeating pieces while upping the drop rate, or ensuring after they've had X number of pieces drop, they get a token to redeem for what pieces they need. I feel this token should be Legacy bound so that it can be transferred to an alt as a just in case that alt ends up having bad luck with the RNG.

 

Granted there's probably more tweaks the GC system needs, but these are the few off the top of my head that would improve the system as my game needs are.

[Betterclass]

All I would ask Eric is that Bioware not ruin the game for the people who still enjoy it.

 

If you do make some change and you do manage to ruin the game for people who still enjoy it for the sake of forum complainers, well you'd be right back at square one wouldn't you, listening to more complaints on the forums.

 

You have an idealized view of gaming. But the people you are dealing with now are not ideal gamers. You want these people to play your game out of fun. But they are only interested in the rewards, not the experience. You could promise them rewards for smashing their head against a brick wall and they would do it for the rewards. This is the reality of the current generation of MMO players, and the reason your $200 million, fully-voiced, story based MMO has failed.

 

Keep this in mind if you decide to make changes. Because these people wont care what changes you make, as long as it rewards them.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Betterclass