Changes to Gearing through Galactic Command

[Wayshuba]

Pretty much spot on - it is their game and they can damn well do what they please with it, but if I don't like it, I damn well won't pay for it.

 

I spent a lot of years as a Product Manager before starting my own businesses (and then I had a dual role as product manager then) and I still have never forgot something my boss said to me a little over twenty years ago.

 

We had worked hard for almost two years getting a ground-breaking (for our industry) product out the door. As we were coming to the trade show where we would officially announce it, I was so proud of what we done and the team for the accomplishment. Then he told me the magic words, "You do realize once you launch this product, it is no longer yours and it becomes your customers." I thought I knew what he meant then, I was only 29 at the time, but I didn't and came to understand after.

 

We had a five year road map for the product, but once customers got a hold of it the feedback lead us on a different road map. It was tough to see what you wanted to do with it versus what your customers wanted to do with it, but at the end of the day, my boss was right.

 

The CEO of T-Mobile was once asked in an interview for any tips of business success, he said there was only one - "Listen to your customers, and when you give them what they want, don't be surprised when you make a lot of money."

 

The sure fire way to fail in any business is to give your customers what YOU think they want instead of what they tell you they want. All you can do is start the initial journey, they then guide you the rest of the way.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Wayshuba

[Toraak]

No, you are totally missing the issues.

 

Why are people now grinding and farming? Why are people now doing everything but actually playing the game? They are looking for ways to game this broken system is why. The game is no longer the point beating the system has become the players' goal. That turns everything else to junk. New story, who cares it doesn't help beat the system. New uprisings, who cares doesn't help beat the system. PvP gear removed, who cares we need to beat the system so we will now AFK in battlegrounds....great that makes it so much more fun.

 

The system is the root issue. Without it being removed all else fails. Remove the broken system and the game can once again live. The story can matter, the uprising can be fun, anyone can hop in a PvP match who wants to play PvP and enjoy. No one will be doing content they don't want to just to fight the system, they will be doing what they want to enjoy the game.

 

Green and Blue gear being removed can't happen and isn't enough of a fix. How do you compensate the guy with command rank 50 who only got greens and blues? He has to kill 10 times as much for his next box as the new 70 does....that isn't fair to him at all. But give everyone 230 purple set gear and now everyone can be happy, Sure the guy who did the grind and got nothing isn't getting anything special here either but at least he can stop grinding. Now can he can start collecting tokens doing the part of the game he likes and purchase the upgrades he wants.

 

Drop this broken system. Give everyone a fully 230 set with set pieces on hitting 70. Have everything you do grant tokens that allow you to eventually purchase the gear you want from that point on.

 

Why build the game to grind. People come here to experience a different kind of game, not WoW in space. The grind being something that takes a while would be collecting tokens and buying your upgrades with them. Not random chance boxes that just frustrate and waste your time. Sure if all you do is solo content it will take you a long time to get all the upgrades. But its there if you want to. And if your a HM/NiM raider your grind will be much slower but you need it to be so you can do the content you enjoy doing.

 

look Grinding in general is a part of every MMO. WoW has had it for years, SWG was one heck of a grind as are every other MMO in history. So yes Grind is required for a good MMO. BW can't compensate those of us who are well past rank 50. I'm at rank 90 so i know I'd lose out on it if they did remove all the green and blue gear, but I'd rather them do the right thing and get rid of all of the garbage nobody is going to use, and make the system more enjoyable for more people.

 

1) PvP'ers already just have to do what they always do. PvP. it's the best way to get CXP anyway so don't give me that garbage.

 

2) I've already said they need to increase the CXP given to other activities to get people to actually do other activities like Operations, Uprisings, FP's etc. They all need to be at the level of PvP in time, keeping in mind about Lockouts.15 mins here get this much. For example A PvP match gives 600 CXP, and Uprising (which has no lockout) takes 15 minutes as well should recieve the same. An Operation which has a lockout should get even more. Say a SM Op takes 45 mins on the same principle it should get 1800 CXP, however with the fact that it has a 1 time per week per character lockout it now recieves 3600 or more. This will help get players to play various aspects instead of Grinding mobs or PvP.

 

3) Story doesn't really have anything to do with this system, can you get CXP for it yes, should you yes, but as BW has said Group content should get more CXP then Solo.

 

4) uprisings and FP's they just increased yesterday. The veteran mode looks like it gives the same as a PvP match so that to me looks like an improvement. I haven't done a FP yet so not sure.

 

5) giving people a full set of 230 purple gear should never happen. It was a Mistake when they did it with the tionesse gear (and recruit gear) that should never happen again.

 

6) even if they did give everyone a set of 230 gear, that doesn't end the grind anyway. 230 gear is only the starter set. at rank 91 you go into tier 2 (which is if I understand it correctly 234/236 gear, and at rank 180 you start to get 240/242 gear, so the grind would continue regardless if they gave out a set of gear or not.

 

 

The grind isn't the problem as much as you think it is. This game has taken almost every grinding aspect it had and streamlined it. The old grind at launch was leveling. It took about a month to get 1 character to level 50. Now it's streamlined so it can be done in 15 hours. The game needs more Grinding in it, just because you don't like that they implemented it into gear is your problem. I just think they should have done it slightly differently by having a loot table that didn't have all the garbage in it.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Toraak

[Otaktey]

I wonder if they can turn this ship around fast enough to survive the damage already done?

 

This is the largest concern.. That the majority of the subscriber base unsubbed, gave up, and moved on to another game.

 

The first response was to move complaints out of view, basically tell people "too bad", and ignore the problem.

 

It has taken far too long for a response that would have kept the subscriber base.

 

What they should do at this point is to place the proposed improvements in the Beta test server and allow what people you have that remains to test the proposed "fixes" and decide if that will be an acceptable solution or not before they bother to make it live.

Now is the time to test the proposed fix, get feedback, and make necessary adjustments.

 

I also strongly suggest sending out an EMAIL to all who were/are subscribers, invite everyone to participate in beta testing with the proposed fix, let everyone know feedback is welcome, and a permanent solution is coming.

 

Every day that goes by is another day that the people who left are investing their time and money in another game. That loss of player base may be permanently lost if immediate effort is not made to get them back.

[DarthSpuds]

So yes Grind is required for a good MMO.

 

Disagree 100%.

 

Grind tends to be a factor of most MMORPGs.

 

But that is only because Grind is two things - easy to design, and cheap to implement.

 

The moment someone comes up with an MMORPG format that has minimal or no Grind that person will have changed the genre for ever.

 

Now, there are ways a Grind can be hidden (Hytbold in LotRO was - arguably - the most grindy content in the game, but it was relatively well hidden, with both story and quest elements) but Bioware hasn't even attempted to do so.

 

In fact they went the other way: "Here's a grind, and just to smash it into your face that its a grind we'll minmise the chances of you getting anything useful for your effort".

 

It's bad game design, simple as that. In any other employment sector coming up with something this bad and detrimental to customer retention would lead to people needing to find new employment. Whoever came up with the idea should be sacked, and whoever gave it the green light to go live (despite 99% of player feedback pointing out that it was a horrible plan) should also be sacked.

 

All The Best

[Tsillah]

This is the largest concern.. That the majority of the subscriber base unsubbed, gave up, and moved on to another game.

 

Well, I don't think it's a majority of players. It also doesn't have to be a majority of players to make it problematic however. If the group of unsubbers is even 5 or 10% that is a big loss already and it's not good for the game overall.

 

I mean, if the overall result after a couple of months is not an increase in numbers and accompanying revenue then what do you think will happen with the development budget?

 

As much as some people want to downplay the importance of the unhappy people as a minority and think it's fine if they just shut up and leave, I think they underestimate the importance the relative success of an expansion has.

 

Don't forget that the people who are unsubbing are also people who often spend a lot of money in the cartel market. I will honestly admit I easily spend 100-150 bucks a month on the CM. I stopped doing that a couple of months ago already and it will take quite something to convince me that I want to spend that much cash on this game again.

 

Oh well, it freed up some budget and I'm rather happy with my Mass Effect Trilogy Vinyl Soundtrack.

[Transcendent]

We either meet them halfway or it's yeah 'tough *******.

 

As a paying customer? Nope. I'll be polite and point out the problems with the system, and make suggestions on how to resolve the issues.

 

I don't have to meet them half way though. If they don't fix it, it's not my job on the line. They can either resolve the problems by taking any number of the suggestions given to them by numerous paying customers, or they can carry on as though it's business as usual. Choices matter after all.

[StarkHelsing]

As a paying customer? Nope. I'll be polite and point out the problems with the system, and make suggestions on how to resolve the issues.

 

I don't have to meet them half way though. If they don't fix it, it's not my job on the line. They can either resolve the problems by taking any number of the suggestions given to them by numerous paying customers, or they can carry on as though it's business as usual. Choices matter after all.

 

;] That'd be meeting them halfway, at least in this scenario.

[Decidion]

Every day that goes by is another day that the people who left are investing their time and money in another game. That loss of player base may be permanently lost if immediate effort is not made to get them back.

 

Yep. Small measures or steps will not bring these people back or stop the people with one foot out the door. If major changes are not made, the slide downhill will just continue.

[PlasmaJohn]

;] That'd be meeting them halfway, at least in this scenario.

Only in the sense of agreeing to disagree. In this case it means one party is unsubbing and the other just lost a revenue stream. The second party can only afford to do that if there are a small number of the first party. Seems like that's not the case here.

 

Hopefully the second party can swallow their pride and do what's necessary instead of trying to preserve something that's not salvageable. At the very least provide some sort of bypass.

[Wayshuba]

As a paying customer? Nope. I'll be polite and point out the problems with the system, and make suggestions on how to resolve the issues.

 

I 100% agree with you. I am a paying customer and there are hundreds of other MMOs that I could put my money into. I don't need to meet them halfway. They need to meet me ALL THE WAY.

 

Welcome to business 101.

[Jamtas]

Only in the sense of agreeing to disagree. In this case it means one party is unsubbing and the other just lost a revenue stream. The second party can only afford to do that if there are a small number of the first party. Seems like that's not the case here.

 

Hopefully the second party can swallow their pride and do what's necessary instead of trying to preserve something that's not salvageable. At the very least provide some sort of bypass.

 

Here's where they have issue. The entire, we'll monitor and make changes down the road if needed comment.

 

For myself, the goodwill to keep paying in anticipation they will make things better is gone. And I don't think I'm alone in that. Now, I unlike some prob will keep my ear to the ground on those changes and come back to subbing (I'll still prob play as preferred here and ther in meantime). others once they leave, will go to another game. And if that game is captivating, it won't matter if SWTOR makes the changes, it won't bring them back.

 

So from my view, wait and monitor doesn't work for me to stay paying in the interim. I want changes done before my sub ends before I'll re-up. IF it is jsut promises or "we're are listening and monitoring" then my response is I'll listen to and monitor the changes and come back if I like them and something else hasn't taken my attention.

[DanNV]

Quoting the entire post for emphasis for BW. This is something every dev and manager at BW need to read and take to heart.

 

I spent a lot of years as a Product Manager before starting my own businesses (and then I had a dual role as product manager then) and I still have never forgot something my boss said to me a little over twenty years ago.

 

We had worked hard for almost two years getting a ground-breaking (for our industry) product out the door. As we were coming to the trade show where we would officially announce it, I was so proud of what we done and the team for the accomplishment. Then he told me the magic words, "You do realize once you launch this product, it is no longer yours and it becomes your customers." I thought I knew what he meant then, I was only 29 at the time, but I didn't and came to understand after.

 

We had a five year road map for the product, but once customers got a hold of it the feedback lead us on a different road map. It was tough to see what you wanted to do with it versus what your customers wanted to do with it, but at the end of the day, my boss was right.

 

The CEO of T-Mobile was once asked in an interview for any tips of business success, he said there was only one - "Listen to your customers, and when you give them what they want, don't be surprised when you make a lot of money."

 

The sure fire way to fail in any business is to give your customers what YOU think they want instead of what they tell you they want. All you can do is start the initial journey, they then guide you the rest of the way.

[Toraak]

Disagree 100%.

 

Grind tends to be a factor of most MMORPGs.

 

But that is only because Grind is two things - easy to design, and cheap to implement.

 

The moment someone comes up with an MMORPG format that has minimal or no Grind that person will have changed the genre for ever.

 

Now, there are ways a Grind can be hidden (Hytbold in LotRO was - arguably - the most grindy content in the game, but it was relatively well hidden, with both story and quest elements) but Bioware hasn't even attempted to do so.

 

In fact they went the other way: "Here's a grind, and just to smash it into your face that its a grind we'll minmise the chances of you getting anything useful for your effort".

 

It's bad game design, simple as that. In any other employment sector coming up with something this bad and detrimental to customer retention would lead to people needing to find new employment. Whoever came up with the idea should be sacked, and whoever gave it the green light to go live (despite 99% of player feedback pointing out that it was a horrible plan) should also be sacked.

 

All The Best

 

 

But that is the thing. For a good MMO, the best way to give yourself as a company to get new content out is to put a grind in the game. It is truly important that some aspect of any MMO has a solid grind to it. If there is no grind people would get bored after the 1st week of an expansion and leave again, having accomplished everything that was in the expansion. Achievements are a grind, and this game needed a grind that more people do.

 

The MMO that takes out all forms of grind from it won't be changing the genre forever, because it won't be an MMO it'll be a oh look a new Xpac. next week = new game.

[Andryah]

Quoting the entire post for emphasis for BW. This is something every dev and manager at BW need to read and take to heart.

 

Confirmation bias in action.

 

Listening to customers =/= doing what customers want or demand.

 

Feedback from customers generally is listened to by companies, but that does not mean that they will in fact respond to every request or idea, much less implement them. Not all ideas are reasonable, or even doable... especially in the frivolous internet age we live in where any and all hair brained ideas are thrown right into the blender with reasonable and well thought out ideas or suggestions.

 

You.. and the person you quoted need to learn the difference between listening and responding accordingly. They are not always in lock sync, and sorry to burst your bubble, but the customer is NOT always right. In fact, as times goes on... customers in many segments of our economy appear to be less and less reasonable and more tantrum like in their demands.

 

I get it.. you are both VERY sour on the game right now. But that does not mean any and every idea or alleged quote of some business person = legitimacy. Some are, some are not.

 

Does GC need fixing? Absolutely. Does it need fixing the specific way you want it fixed? Not likely. There are many fixes possible, and the studio has to weigh all of them, including suggested fixes by random players.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Andryah

[Tsillah]

But that is the thing. For a good MMO, the best way to give yourself as a company to get new content out is to put a grind in the game.

 

I hope that you're not suggesting that the putting a grind system on existing content is new content.

[Sargrith]

even if they did give everyone a set of 230 gear, that doesn't end the grind anyway. 230 gear is only the starter set. at rank 91 you go into tier 2 (which is if I understand it correctly 234/236 gear, and at rank 180 you start to get 240/242 gear, so the grind would continue regardless if they gave out a set of gear or not.

 

 

The grind isn't the problem as much as you think it is.

 

 

The grind they created for gearing is the one and only problem. It has become the game. Beating this broken system is now the only game people are playing. Throw out the broken system completely.

 

Giving the 230 gear is their apology for not listening and building a worthwhile system to start with. They owe it now, they were told what would happen, it happened, and now we have this mess. They failed us, they failed to listen and they failed to make a system that works.

 

The 230 brings everyone to the same point and deals with the fact luck was a terrible way to gear. Now you throw out their system, no more command rank, its gone. You get tokens for everything done, Get enough tokens and you can purchase the piece you want. That's how you earn upgrades. That brings grind in but it allows players to know clearly do a,b and c and you will get your upgrade. Not do a,b and c and maybe you have a chance at something that might be an upgrade....Get rid of random completely and move on to a better system. But you need to rebuild the baseline and that is the point of the 230 gear for hitting 70.

 

The longer they take to take action the more dramatic their fix will need to be. After only a few weeks this still works. In a month or more it wont be enough. Act now, smaller fix, act later bigger one and even then you may have chased off too many customers.

[Wayshuba]

But that is the thing. For a good MMO, the best way to give yourself as a company to get new content out is to put a grind in the game. It is truly important that some aspect of any MMO has a solid grind to it. If there is no grind people would get bored after the 1st week of an expansion and leave again, having accomplished everything that was in the expansion. Achievements are a grind, and this game needed a grind that more people do.

 

The MMO that takes out all forms of grind from it won't be changing the genre forever, because it won't be an MMO it'll be a oh look a new Xpac. next week = new game.

 

The other thing good MMOs do, is attach that grind to NEW content. Also, they tend to choose a grind - either time-based or RNG based - NOT a grind on a grind.

 

BW did three things severely wrong with this expansion. And I am going to put my money that within three months they are going to reach of point where they will not recover. This happened in the v1.0-v1.6 era and F2P literally saved them. They will have nothing to save them this time.

 

First, they put two grind mechanics that are effectively separately but not stacked, and stacked them (see my early posts in this thread).

 

Second, they did it (except for 2 hours of new group content with Uprisings) on top of two plus year old content. So they added the grind, but skipped out on the actual content.

 

Third, they made it only accessible to subscribers alienating the F2P base AND giving a grind that slapped customers in the face with an iron tie-rod making you pay for something almost every single MMO on the market will give you for free.

 

What BW is trying to do is put in the most minimal of effort while extracting the most from their customers. In most businesses, this is known as a rip-off. The only thing they are successfully doing is dumping a load of **** all over their customer base. They DESERVE the backlash that comes with this. I have never seen, in my life, a company so completely disrespectful of their paying customers. EVER.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Wayshuba

[eartharioch]

Does GC need fixing? Absolutely. Does it need fixing the specific way you want it fixed? Not likely. There are many fixes possible, and the studio has to weigh all of them, including suggested fixes by random players.

 

Statement: The customer is always right.

Question: Which one?

[DarthSpuds]

But that is the thing. For a good MMO, the best way to give yourself as a company to get new content out is to put a grind in the game. It is truly important that some aspect of any MMO has a solid grind to it. If there is no grind people would get bored after the 1st week of an expansion and leave again, having accomplished everything that was in the expansion. Achievements are a grind, and this game needed a grind that more people do.

 

The MMO that takes out all forms of grind from it won't be changing the genre forever, because it won't be an MMO it'll be a oh look a new Xpac. next week = new game.

 

Here's the thing. I am currently re-engaging with ESO. I am, technically, in that end-game grind that, apparently every game needs, for Champion Points. However, as I have yet to run out of actual content - Quests etc - it doesn't feel like a grind. Likewise with crafting, crafting research is now taking me 20+ days per trait - a huge time gate - but because I set the research going and go off to a) quest and b) find gear (RNG drops) for Traits I don't yet have (questing through still new content being the key) it doesn't feel like a grind at all.

 

And once I have completed Cadwell's Gold (2nd tier end-game grind) I still have all the Thieve's Guild and Dark Brotherhood quests to go at. I am 100% in that "end game" endless-grind zone, but it hasn't felt like a grind even for a single minute.

 

In SWtOR I am not yet fully in that end-game grind-zone and yet every minute I spend in game feels like the very worst Korean MMO grind ever (heck logging in to get CXP is 100 time worse than farming Devil-Bug wings in Silk Road Online - and anyone who has ever done that quest will tell you how bad that was).

 

I reject the notion that a grind is necessary; but even if it is there are ways to disguise that grind so the player doesn't feel it as bad (or at all) Bioware opted to give us a grind, extend it by making it RNG, and then rub our faces in it by nerfing what little CXP we do get.

 

All The Best

[Toraak]

The other thing good MMOs do, is attach that grind to NEW content. Also, they tend to choose a grind - either time-based or RNG based - NOT a grind on a grind.

 

BW did three things severely wrong with this expansion. And I am going to put my money that within three months they are going to reach of point where they will not recover. This happened in the v1.0-v1.6 era and F2P literally saved them. They will have nothing to save them this time.

 

First, they put two grind mechanics that are effectively separately but not stacked, and stacked them (see my early posts in this thread).

 

Second, they did it (except for 2 hours of new group content with Uprisings) on top of two plus year old content. So they added the grind, but skipped out on the actual content.

 

Third, they made it only accessible to subscribers alienating the F2P base AND giving a grind that slapped customers in the face with an iron tie-rod making you pay for something almost every single MMO on the market will give you for free.

 

What BW is trying to do is put in the most minimal of effort while extracting the most from their customers. In most businesses, this is known as a rip-off. The only thing they are successfully doing is dumping a load of **** all over their customer base. They DESERVE the backlash that comes with this. I have never seen, in my life, a company so completely disrespectful of their paying customers. EVER.

 

I'll be 100% honest. I'm glad End game gear is subscriber only. F2P and pref do nothing for this game. The only thing they possibly do is have more people in PvP queu's or FP queu's, but for Operations meh. People need to learn to sub for MMO's or look for a different style of game. $15 a month is nothing. It's like 1 movie a month (with popcorn/soda), 2 McDonalds dinners etc. it's not expensive, and really if you play for 1 hour a day, it's on 50 cents a day. Even less if you play a lot.

 

And ah another this game is dead poster got it. I'll just ignore what you say then as meaningless since people have been spouting Swtor is dead since 2012. Good luck to you, in whatever game you go to.

[Wayshuba]

I'll be 100% honest. I'm glad End game gear is subscriber only. F2P and pref do nothing for this game. The only thing they possibly do is have more people in PvP queu's or FP queu's, but for Operations meh. People need to learn to sub for MMO's or look for a different style of game. $15 a month is nothing. It's like 1 movie a month (with popcorn/soda), 2 McDonalds dinners etc. it's not expensive, and really if you play for 1 hour a day, it's on 50 cents a day. Even less if you play a lot.

 

And ah another this game is dead poster got it. I'll just ignore what you say then as meaningless since people have been spouting Swtor is dead since 2012. Good luck to you, in whatever game you go to.

 

Subscribers alone aren't keeping this game going. BW has said as much. While F2P players may not participate in a lot of EG content, if they are buying a hypercrate a month, they are outspending a typical subscriber.

 

Looking at your profile it doesn't appear you were here around launch. Maybe I am wrong. I've been here since the earliest betas and in these forums since 2009. BW, had 2 million people at launch and lost more than 1.5 million of them within six months. While there were many issues cited, one of the big complaints was the stupidity of the RNG grind in the game. Which is why, by version 1.6 they had worked it out of the game.

 

Furthermore, BW themselves admitted in an article in Forbes they were in very serious trouble as a result. As in, they thought the game was going to end up closing less than a year after launch. EA had them put all efforts on F2P in a desperate attempt to save the game and it worked.

 

As an aside, part of the reason SWTOR has such a weird F2P model, is they didn't even have the time to hire people who had experience in F2P (by their own admission), that's how close this game was to death's doorstep.

 

So before you dump all over F2P players, realize you are able to play SWTOR because of them - otherwise the doors would have closed in 2012. Second, unlike BW, I am basing my assertions based on what has happened in this game with tedious and pointless RNG before - and the last time they had it the game LITERALLY almost did die, BW finally admitted as much later.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Wayshuba

[DarthSpuds]

I'll be 100% honest. I'm glad End game gear is subscriber only. F2P and pref do nothing for this game. .

 

Except of course as has already been admitted F2P players saved the game financially.

 

All The Best

[Tsillah]

Subscribers alone aren't keeping this game going. BW has said as much. While F2P players may not participate in a lot of EG content, if they are buying a hypercrate a month, they are outspending a typical subscriber.

And how do you know what a typical subscriber spends in the CM? As a sub I bought multiple hypercrates each time around. Why wouldn't I be typical? Your comments here do reek of assumptions, since I don't believe you can back this up. I mean sure if a F2P player buys a crate he spends more than a sub costs. But how many F2P players actually do this? I have no idea. Do you?

 

Looking at your profile it doesn't appear you were here around launch. Maybe I am wrong. I've been here since the earliest betas and in these forums since 2009. BW, had 2 million people at launch and lost more than 1.5 million of them within six months. While there were many issues cited, one of the big complaints was the stupidity of the RNG grind in the game. Which is why, by version 1.6 they had worked it out of the game.

 

Furthermore, BW themselves admitted in an article in Forbes they were in very serious trouble as a result. As in, they thought the game was going to end up closing less than a year after launch. EA had them put all efforts on F2P in a desperate attempt to save the game and it worked.

I was there and I remember this. F2P + CM did save the game at that point. In addition I'd like to mention that there were a lot of complaints of not enough to do and content not coming out fast enough and so people quit because of the feeling that the sub they paid wasn't worth it anymore. If anything, this is what paved the way to F2P.

 

So before you dump all over F2P players, realize you are able to play SWTOR because of them - otherwise the doors would have closed in 2012. Second, unlike BW, I am basing my assertions based on what has happened in this game with tedious and pointless RNG before - and the last time they had it the game LITERALLY almost did die, BW finally admitted as much later.

There is another question that has to be asked though and mind you, I do not claim to know the answer.

 

But as much as F2P was part of saving the game back in 2012, the question has to be: does that value of F2P still exist today?

Edited December 14, 2016 by Tsillah

[Toraak]

Except of course as has already been admitted F2P players saved the game financially.

 

All The Best

 

Proof? I doubt F2P or Pref spend more $ on the cartel market then subs.

[Arsq]

My problems and questions I'd like answered:

 

1) The grind is too long. Why grind for a hundred hours just so I can start getting some HM gear to do the content we've all done dozens of times already? The amount of grind ahead of me just keeps me from even starting, especially when there's no goal to getting the gear.

 

2) RNG coupled with the slow rate of packs being handed out. I don't want to run Black Talon in tactical (veteran) mode 800 times to start getting good gear. I'd much rather do a few operations and start earning my gear the traditional way, but that'll barely get me to level 30, if I run them all on SM and HM.

 

3) Gear isn't enough to be all the replayable content for an entire expansion (again), Uprisings aren't that much fun in the long term, and replayable chapters are cute at best when they're tuned for the gear you need to grind a year to get. I, we, need to start seeing some real commitments here. "Maybe we'll say something in the general direction of group content in January, this isn't a promise of anything hint hint wink wink" is not an acceptable answer anymore.

 

4) Why was this even created? Why take away the other gear from the original sources? Was it only to retain subsmium players? Was it to slow down the gearing process until you had something solid to present? What's the real intention here? How is this better for me, as a player, than 4.0 was? Communicate.

 

5) Did you really forget the PvP bag fiasco of Vanilla? Or NiM loot issue of 4.0? You really couldn't have.

 

I'll end with a quote.

 

 

We saw a lot of feedback over the past few weeks where many of you felt strongly that Nightmare should be a guaranteed source for the best gear, even if that means the priority HM was equivalent. The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly. However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.