Ben and Bioware Out Of Touch with Players

[Vember]

waste time doing old content

 

This is the real problem, and one I fully agree with. At the end of the day, it won't be GC or RNG that drives people away, it will be the lack of new content. The mood in game does not completely align with the mood on the forums toward GC from my experience.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Vember

[Technohic]

I see quite the opposite on JC.

 

Every night I've been on it someone in chat saying once again why their sage healer needs another pair of defense Asyum leggings or some other such useless garbage the swtor casino has decided to give them. I see guilds talk of running quick and easy HM OPS and coming out with nothing of value for their time because mats to which it seems when I ask there just saving them because the made gear isn't worth making and it's still rather expansion to make just a few mods.

 

Consistent talk of poor RNG loot crate drops and waste time doing old content for just a chance at gear but in reality it's what garbage will they be disintegrating this time.

 

The rare few (kind of like the rare few that got gear doing high level ops) being the only ones to get a couple items of value. It's all rather disheartening to read iink general chat and channels we have created to link guilds.

 

Bioware is monitoring feedback and has determined that chat is a major source of frustration in game with showing junk found in RNG crates and chat has now been disabled.

[Jadescythe]

I want, and I hope that GC drop rates are tweaked and that gear exchange becomes an option, and cxp is raised and normalized across all activities. From what I saw of the stream, they appear to be working on that.

 

I'm curious where you picked up on this from their stream. My interpretation was that almost nothing was changing other than doubling XP gain for gold mobs and Uprisings that no one was doing. Everything else was a "wait and see" approach. Which, to me, means the system is working as they had planned.

[AscendingSky]

Bioware is monitoring feedback and has determined that chat is a major source of frustration in game with showing junk found in RNG crates and chat has now been disabled.

 

While whispering other players is not an exploit, we are now going to restrict you to 2 whispers per day. We did not intend for players to be able to whisper people all day if they want to.

[martinbaker]

Lesson of the day:

 

In ANY game, the difference in numbers of players that visit forums and don't is massive. The complaints you see here are from a very very small percentage of the player base.

 

 

True, but from what I see the forums on this issue are very much indicative of what people are saying outside the forums. The complaints here are widely held in the real in-game population.

[kodrac]

Of course we can, but we don't want. Posting on forums is surely more fun than working

 

Indeed it is

[TrixxieTriss]

Bioware is monitoring feedback and has determined that chat is a major source of frustration in game with showing junk found in RNG crates and chat has now been disabled.

 

I know it's sarcasm, but I wouldn't put it past them at the moment. dont give them ideas, lol

[TrixxieTriss]

Indeed it is

 

It's more fun than the game at the moment

[AngFour]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kurfer View Post

Lesson of the day:

In ANY game, the difference in numbers of players that visit forums and don't is massive. The complaints you see here are from a very very small percentage of the player base.

 

The same thing can also be said about anyone who posts anything positive on the forums. Can't have it both ways.

 

True, but from what I see the forums on this issue are very much indicative of what people are saying outside the forums. The complaints here are widely held in the real in-game population.

 

One of the biggest rules I learned when I had a job in customer service was that for every ONE person who complains vocally, there's ten people who feel the same way, but won't say anything.

Edited December 10, 2016 by AngFour

[scardera]

after 1-2 months the story players will leave too when they have completed the chapters on multiple chars

[mfourcustom]

after 1-2 months the story players will leave too when they have completed the chapters on multiple chars

 

I fear you are right lad. Only this time it may be much worse since many people will be unsubbing do to rng/lack of content...

 

Jc was lucky to break over 100 people on rep fleet a month ago if it gets worse and people will truly be unsubbing in droves as they say they will well... I think we'll make it to a 6.0 and that'll be the end of things for swtor and all it's boys.

[midianlord]

I fear you are right lad. Only this time it may be much worse since many people will be unsubbing do to rng/lack of content...

 

Jc was lucky to break over 100 people on rep fleet a month ago if it gets worse and people will truly be unsubbing in droves as they say they will well... I think we'll make it to a 6.0 and that'll be the end of things for swtor and all it's boys.

 

Which compels the question:

 

What are they going to do once this latest wave of "ten-hour-casuals" gets a load of the RNG BS and decides, "Screw this, I'm going back to [insert prior game/s here] which has a sane gearing system and at least occasional new content?"

 

Probably won't be too long before whoever's left will be the only person on Fleet at prime-time again.

[Wayshuba]

Ever consider the idea that you and your feelings do not make up the entirety of the "player base"? I understand when people are passionate and emotions are raw, they tend to believe others should also feel the same way. SWTOR appeals to a very diverse audience that play this game for a multitude of reasons. You have to realize while you may not be happy, there are certainly others that are.

 

Have you read the forums today? Three long posts by Eric on fixes and further admission there are still some major problems to fix. All of this less than 60 days after 5.0 launch. Not to mention 4 livestreams - all dealing with fixes to the GC System and a first ever survey from EA on just the expansion.

 

I think there is plenty of evidence that the majority are in fact NOT happy.

[Ejied]

What more can I say. Ben Irving and Bioware are completely out of touch with the player base of swtor, it's like they are talking to player base of a completely different game.

 

All this says to me is that it's time for members of the team to move on (Ben) and get some fresh blood into the team who listen and have the players best interests at heart.

 

BEN, BIOWARE, WE ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS, NOT MUSHROOMS, STOP FEEDING US 💩 RESPONSES

 

Ultimately, success and player satisfaction keep subs/players and draw more in, which means in around about way, players pay for your salaries. If the game fails, you need another job. Maybe EA have one lined up for you, maybe they don't. But from EAs past behaviour and lack of ethics, do you really trust that all of you guys have a secured position to transition into another EA project. They have a history or just unilaterally putting whole divisions on the unemployment line. You'd want to hope that doesn't happen because no ledgitmate, customer, player orientated gaming company will want to take on people who have zero regard for the player base.

 

And the answer is yes, I am pissed, lots of people are. I am salty, I'm QQing, I'm raging. Get over it and damn well listen.

 

All MMOs get to this point. The game is so mature and starts down a specific path that not everyone is on board with. It happened to Star Wars Galaxies back in the day (that gave us the NGE and literally destroyed the game). So, it happens.

[RagnarAugustus]

. You have to realize while you may not be happy, there are certainly others that are.

And the fact that Bioware is for the first time in recent memory going into frantic damage control shows that a great many players are very unhappy...so many in fact that one may think that the happy players are in the minority.

[ValeGreiger]

You do a fine job of reppin all us boys (even if your not one....) who lost lads to this games failure to function as a proper MMO should...

 

I'm demoralized.. But wouldn't be the first time this games demoralized me and maybe a high percentage of their own player base...

 

anyway the bosten major is on for anyone who likes dota 2 or moba's great games so far....

 

I'll just leave this here.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/dotamajor

 

I'm in the same boat. The odd thing is normally, when I quit a game, I rarely feel much cuz it just sort of happens. Here in this case, I'm just sad.

[arunav]

I'm in the same boat. The odd thing is normally, when I quit a game, I rarely feel much cuz it just sort of happens. Here in this case, I'm just sad.

 

I'm in the same boat.

 

I was hoping the 5.1 changes would inspire some form of rejuvenation, because I really used to like SWTOR, even with older content in 4.x, before the gearing changes and Galactic Command. In its 5 years, I've only let my sub lapse for 2 months, because I was so busy at work at the time and didn't want to get distracted by anything. Unfortunately, if 5.1 is their "solution" to Galactic Command crates, I feel there is little point to continuing at level 70.

 

The PVP changes are so draconian that GC crates will still be where you get most of your gear. For PVE, we went from 18 bosses that drop tokens per character in 2.x, to 11 bosses that drop tokens per character in 3.x, to having to clear a whole Operation for the chance at 2 drops, and a necessity to grind GC levels to turn them in. The fact that Eric didn't specify anything about the "chance" drop rates on other bosses is very telling - it's so bad, they know it would just upset players.

 

So if gearing at level cap is just slightly less terrible, what's left to do? I've already played (and thoroughly enjoyed) all the class stories more than once. With the changes to the Dark and Light system, the class stories no longer work properly, due to how many points it takes to reach Dark or Light ranks. Alongside all the bugs introduced in 4.0 to the original leveling game, this makes it unappealing to even roll another alt to replay a class story and the side quests.

 

I suppose I never got good at GSF, but I find it isn't enjoyable to play, unlike regular "ground" PVP. So it's counter-intuitive to subscribe for something I don't even enjoy, and BW has abandoned any development on.

 

This leaves me just feeling kind of sad, because I want to subscribe and continue playing SWTOR. There just isn't a reason to any longer.

 

Edit: Oh, I left out collecting CM armor sets. I can pay BW a subscription to avoid a credit cap and keep collecting and unlocking any new armor shells introduced to put on characters I don't actually play any longer. I don't think this makes much sense either.

Edited January 21, 2017 by arunav

[Dreez]

Ever consider the idea that you and your feelings do not make up the entirety of the "player base"? I understand when people are passionate and emotions are raw, they tend to believe others should also feel the same way. SWTOR appeals to a very diverse audience that play this game for a multitude of reasons. You have to realize while you may not be happy, there are certainly others that are.

 

OP is right tho. The developers behaves like this is their first game ever and doesn't know about these forums.

 

When you have 80% of the content useless for L60+ players for a very long time, you have really screwed up

as a developer, and right now, Ops are the only way to get gear reliably.. Flashpoints are useless, Heroics are useless,

sidecontent and pretty much everything except Operations are USELESS for gearing up.

 

Ontop of everything, you have a company that went 4.2 Billion dollars + and yet they can't hire competent

developers to FIX PvP class balance OR add new content !?. How much would it cost to hire a team of

devs, sit down , talk to players and start making some real new content and fixing the game?.

 

It cost 400mil Dollars to MAKE the entire game.. and its a big game. So we can't be talking about much

in terms of development cost for new content OR fixing / improving the game.

 

It's just a matter of WILL. And currently the developers DOESNT WANT TO fix the game to keep the players

happy and gain more players. Bioware and their Devs seems hellbent on ruining the game more and more

with each update to chase away more players - and finally shut down the servers due to low playerbase.

 

Prove me wrong. When in the last year, when have you actually seen the devs LISTEN to the player

and change the game FOR THE BETTER !?.

 

SINGELPLAYER STORYDRIVEN EXPANSIONS ARENT MMO-CONTENT .... Learn that Bioware.

[Dreez]

I'm in the same boat.

 

I can pay BW a subscription to avoid a credit cap .

 

That's a lie... There is a creditcap for subscribers as well, you just didn't know about it.

 

Kinda makes you whonder what else they're lying about.

[DarthDymond]

SINGELPLAYER STORYDRIVEN EXPANSIONS ARENT MMO-CONTENT .... Learn that Bioware.

They're the best content for this story-focused MMO.

 

BW should go back to the monthly chapter releases of KotFE -- if they're thinking about putting resources instead into new Ops, then they're chasing players they'll never get back at the expense of players they could actually attract / keep by committing to the focus on Story with small-scale group content as periodic side-content.

[Dreez]

They're the best content for this story-focused MMO.

 

BW should go back to the monthly chapter releases of KotFE -- if they're thinking about putting resources instead into new Ops, then they're chasing players they'll never get back at the expense of players they could actually attract / keep by committing to the focus on Story with small-scale group content as periodic side-content.

 

I only play mmo's because of ONE reason... getting a strong character, gearing up, gaining power.

 

If the developer constantly puts out new content, but without the ability to gear up, hence my character

remains with the same items for months... then i won't be paying 1 cent to that developer, nor will i play the game.

 

Sofar i've played pretty much all mmo's on the market, except asians, and there's always been 2 reasons for

me to quit them in the end.

1) Lack of PvP class balance (Some OP classes were never sorted out)

2) Bad gearingup system. Dungeons way too hard for the rewards available. The Juice wasn't worth the squeeze.

 

When it comes to dungeons - THE JUICE MUST BE WORTH THE SQUEEZE. If its not, players won't run them.

When it comes to PvP balance - There must be balance, or players will either quit playing, or only play the OP classes.

(Unless they're stupid and like drawing the short end of the stick)

[DanNV]

I'm in the same boat.

 

I was hoping the 5.1 changes would inspire some form of rejuvenation, because I really used to like SWTOR, even with older content in 4.x, before the gearing changes and Galactic Command. In its 5 years, I've only let my sub lapse for 2 months, because I was so busy at work at the time and didn't want to get distracted by anything. Unfortunately, if 5.1 is their "solution" to Galactic Command crates, I feel there is little point to continuing at level 70.

 

Me, too. I havne't let my sub lapse once since Dec 2011. I am letting it lapse now. BW doesn't deserve a nickle from anyone for the mess they now call SWTOR. No real end game content in over 2 years (and don't trust promises, the last promise was never more than a year) and a gearing system that would keep you out of any new content they came up with. It's just not worth it.

[DanNV]

They're the best content for this story-focused MMO.

 

BW should go back to the monthly chapter releases of KotFE -- if they're thinking about putting resources instead into new Ops, then they're chasing players they'll never get back at the expense of players they could actually attract / keep by committing to the focus on Story with small-scale group content as periodic side-content.

 

Sorry, but the market you seem to be part of isn't big enough to support the game on it's own. Who is going to pay $15 for an hour of story a month? That's why they lost all those subs last year. A game needs to appeal to a lot of different groups of players to keep enough revenue to keep the game going. BW has alienated most of the groups that combine to make a successful game. They either do some major changes to get them back or the population will continue to shrink, updates will continue to get smaller and smaller until eventually EA pulls the plug because it isn't performing up to expectations.

[DarthDymond]

Sorry, but the market you seem to be part of isn't big enough to support the game on it's own. Who is going to pay $15 for an hour of story a month? That's why they lost all those subs last year. A game needs to appeal to a lot of different groups of players to keep enough revenue to keep the game going. BW has alienated most of the groups that combine to make a successful game. They either do some major changes to get them back or the population will continue to shrink, updates will continue to get smaller and smaller until eventually EA pulls the plug because it isn't performing up to expectations.

In general, I absolutely agree that an MMO should try to appeal to a variety of different play styles, but it's pretty clear that SWTOR doesn't have the resources anymore to put out Ops, WZs, FPs/Uprisings, and story content concurrently.

 

If that's the case, then it should do some triage - find the market segment it has a legitimate shot at holding on to and focus on it. I'll be the first to admit that's not ideal, but it's the lesser evil in that situation.

 

The alternative - going two years without raids to focus on story, then switching gears to focus on group content at the expense of story - seems like a fool's errand that's likely to fail to bring back the players they lost, but could easily alienate the ones they have kept.

Edited January 21, 2017 by DarthDymond

[FerkWork]

Sorry, but the market you seem to be part of isn't big enough to support the game on it's own. Who is going to pay $15 for an hour of story a month? That's why they lost all those subs last year. A game needs to appeal to a lot of different groups of players to keep enough revenue to keep the game going. BW has alienated most of the groups that combine to make a successful game. They either do some major changes to get them back or the population will continue to shrink, updates will continue to get smaller and smaller until eventually EA pulls the plug because it isn't performing up to expectations.

 

Mfw I knew this would happen when 4.0 dropped, now we are here full circle. FeelsSwtorman XD