The case for Galactic Command

[Tsillah]

I would alter that statement slightly:

 

Galactic Command is fine. RNG needs to be used delicately. It's like salt. A slight bit of RNG can spice up the food, but too much ruins the evening for everyone.

 

There was always an element of RNG gearing in MMORPGs. There's always that slight piece of RNG set gear you might not get lucky on. And I actually like that. In most cases, I think needing that one last piece of good gear keeps me going on a character. What should be altered is the idea that characters can't even acquire baseline purple gear in 5.0 without adapting to this tideous grind.

 

Well put. I can agree with that without hesitation.

[Eli_Porter]

That's rich coming from you and I quote:

 

You're not reasonable at all.

 

Your whole argumentation is that because it works out for you, it works out for everybody. Which is complete and utter bull. And whenever someone explains this to you, you dismiss it by again reiterating that everything's fine because it works for you.

 

I never once used that reasoning. If you can point me to where you think I misunderstood something we can keep this argument going.

 

 

Now the moment that you can let go of just look at the numbers on gear and start opening up to what baseline gear (which is 230 and not 228) to players who've gone through cycles of level cap raises and having to regear all over, then perhaps a reasonable discussion is possible but so far you've given no sign whatsoever of being reasonable.

 

"Reasonable" (e: level of gear-wise, not discussion) refers to what content is gated for your gear level and how long it takes for you to reach sufficient levels of gear for all content. 228 lets you tackle most content in the game, including Master FP's and Up's. As I said about Operations, I'm not sure as I'm not an experienced raider. Storymode shouldn't be an issue, but I don't know enough about raids (especially raids in 5.0) to determine whether it's enough for Hard+.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Eli_Porter

[Jamtas]

Galactic Command as a supplement to token drops from bosses would be a great thing. Players that don't/can't do operations can still have a route to get the best gear in game and it will reward all players with something for doing any part of the game content they like.

 

GC as the only means of getting gear is a gigantic mistake.

 

Operations need a fix too. No more highlighted HM is a good thing. Operations need to be broken into tiers for gear rewards. Doing EV HM should not return the same gear as doing ToS HM. By making them all equal, the gear grind was made way to short and I understand wan't to extend it and thus we get GC. But operations should have been placed into tiers and gear drops made accordingly.

 

So keep GC system - it does work for newer players who didn't get 224 sets and for those who can't/won't do operations. But bring back operations tokens and put them in tiers based on the operation difficulty. And revisit that 90% nerf to elites. Put a daily limit on how many can be killed for the CXP if you're worried about some hardcore grinder.

[DisIzMe]

Don't hurt yourself on it.

 

It was edgy,but not that sharp,so no worries.

[Alssaran]

Ranked PvP? You need Valor 25 for it, and you'd be likely to have several 230 pieces by then.

 

Key word there. I didn't need RNG for basic gear back in the day. It was provided to me by playing the game on any character because comms were tradeable. I was able to PvP on my main and get my alts some PvP gear. Then I was able to play those alts and save up comms for eventual progress. The two were not mutually exclusive. They were connected. This system disconnected alts from the equation on a level never seen prior to 5.0.

 

Do you want to have an alt be viable for any form of more difficult content, and be able to stand a chance even in regular PvP? Great! Grind for 200 hours! And we're talking about each character here!

- Bioware

 

228 gear is nothing. Even having two or three pieces of 230 gear is unreasonable. The issue is how entirely disconnected this system is from previous attempts at digital expansion gearing. There was never a point at which RNG was the sole deciding factor in acquiring baseline gear, and there was never a point at which the progress from my main character (e.g token drops in operations and gearing alts for HM healing/tanking) was not transferable to an alt. Now, it very much is impossible. This strict contrast is why people feel GC (in it's current implementation) is contrary to what this game was build on.

 

This is to answer (finally) why GC as a system does not work. And only making it legacy wide is not the solution either. There needs to be a reliable legacy system - it needs to count progress among all level 70 characters, and it needs to award the possibility of acquiring baseline 230 gear without relying on the RNG gods. Or introduce a legacy vendor that sells 230/236 purple gear to your alts as soon as your main character has hit a certain level in GC.

 

Why would it care about Legacy level?

 

Because Legacy is what this game introduced as a valuable mechanic of keeping players on their alts. You could boost up experience gains. Achievements are legacy wide. You could trade gear/comms, and you could even unlock addition things back in the day.

 

Legacy levels are one way to implement a legacy feature in GC - add a 1/2% increase of GCXP earned on any character per legacy level. This would leave veterans at a point where they gain 50% more GCXP across their characters for having put the time into maxing their legacy. It would ease the grind considerably, and people might be more inclined to forgive brief slip-ups.

 

Also, there is a way to trade gear between alts. DPS/Healing characters can give used mods to other DPS/Healing characters and while tanks have a more limited alt support, they can still get schematics and they can still disassemble their unwanted drops into CXP.

 

The gain from disintegrating stuff is ridiculous.

 

You also don't answer the point - can you trade set gear or not? The next issue that DPS is not DPS, and healer is not healer. That sounds confusing, doesn't it? Essentially, you cannot equip a sentinel in just the same way you can equip a gunslinger. Or a Juggernaut DPS. They rely on different stat distributions across their gear. And the most important thing: You cannot trade set bonus gear. That was possible in 3.0 and 4.0 (at least I believe putting armouring into legacy armour was possible in 3.0). It was a great way to augment characters for two years. That's completely gone. It's place takes a 300 hour grind where set bonus items are completely locked to a single character.

 

Refer to my PvP answer above.

 

That's not an answer. You were evading the point in the previous answer, and you're still doing it here.

 

Due to how crafitng works in SWTOR, you don't need more than a few at a high level.

 

You previously said having a couple is beneficial and pays out in the long run. Now you say it's best to get one or two "because you don't need many". You're using semantics to sleaze out of your previous argument, and you're certainly evading the question: Why has "Companion gifts are easy. Get eight companions to 40 and craft. The investment will pan out in the long run!" become "Eight companions on 40 is madness! Take one or two! It's all you need!" It's a direct contradiction.

 

I don't. I want every character to reach T3 in a reasonable time (a few weeks).

 

There is no need to have a per character progression. The only need there is would be to artificialy drag out the old content there is.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Alssaran

[Swtorevolution]

It was edgy,but not that sharp,so no worries.

 

Your safety is my primary concern.

[Tsillah]

I never once used that reasoning. If you can point me to where you think I misunderstood something we can keep this argument going..

Each and every time you used the descriptions cheap and easy you imply such reasoning. You wouldn't say such things if you actually had a concept of other player's situations and preferences.

 

"Reasonable" (e: level of gear-wise, not discussion) refers to what content is gated for your gear level and how long it takes for you to reach sufficient levels of gear for all content. 228 lets you tackle most content in the game, including Master FP's and Up's. As I said about Operations, I'm not sure as I'm not an experienced raider. Storymode shouldn't be an issue, but I don't know enough about raids (especially raids in 5.0) to determine whether it's enough for Hard+ .

I was talking about the discussion but oh well, I'll humour you.

 

I played this game since it came out ok? Now I've played all the operations many many many times. Why? Because for the last two years, we've not had anything new there. Now in 4.0 they even dumbed down all the boss fights in Story Mode, which from where I'm sitting makes it Stupid Mode. Now I appreciate that there still will be some challenge there for new players but that's not everybody. To now have to start over and do Stupid Mode instead of being able to jump in the Veteran Mode operations for which you want to have at least 230 gear, is just not reasonable for long time players.

 

In 4.0 we already had the problem but as it was relatively quick to gain in 216 gear in Stupid Mode I only had to deal with it for a week and then go into HM with my main and gear up an alt, which then allowed me to do HM with 2 alts and as such I had good momentum. This momentum made it possible for me to gear up over 20 alts in full 220/224 gear with set bonuses and augments before 5.0 came on the horizon, allowing me to enjoy alting in the harder content.

 

This is not possible in 5.0 and as we still don't have any new content, it's simply not reasonable from Bioware to expect players like myself to have to grind Stupid Mode for months to get to the same level where I can play various alts in the harder difficulties which is what I enjoyed. That's what baseline 230 gear represents to me. The ability to get back to where I was content wise so that I can again progress on the couple of HM bosses we had left and NiM ops. I was doing this and now I have to stop doing this for god knows how many months till I have the gear again to do the content I was already engaging in. There is no way that this is reasonable.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Tsillah

[Swtorevolution]

228 gear is nothing. Even having two or three pieces of 230 gear is unreasonable. The issue is how entirely disconnected this system is from previous attempts at digital expansion gearing. There was never a point at which RNG was the sole deciding factor in acquiring baseline gear, and there was never a point at which the progress from my main character (e.g token drops in operations and gearing alts for HM healing/tanking) was not transferable to an alt. Now, it very much is impossible. This strict contrast is why people feel GC (in it's current implementation) is contrary to what this game was build on.

 

Craft 230 gear. Crafting gear doesn't rely on RNG. Simple.

 

But of course, "not efficient enough" for you.

 

Complain, then discount any workarounds. Double down.

[Jeweledleah]

there was never a point at which the progress from my main character (e.g token drops in operations and gearing alts for HM healing/tanking) was not transferable to an alt. Now, it very much is impossible.

.

 

this is false. bonuses used to be tied to shells for a time there and legacy gear didn't exist because legacy system didn't exist. however, there is a reason back when bioware still listened to feedback, that they changed bonuses from shells to armorings, introduced more and more legacy gear (originally all you had were class sets that at the time were expensive, since credits were not as plentiful), to the point where people have forgotten why the game lost so much of its population back in its first year of existence and had to go f2p EVEN after changing (because for a lot of people it was too little, too late).

 

otherwise I pretty much agree with you post.

[DisIzMe]

Your safety is my primary concern.

 

My...God.....

Are you C2-N2?

[Alssaran]

Complain, then discount any workarounds. Double down.

 

It is better to re-think an entire system from the ground up than try to patch it with little band-aids that do not adress the fundamental issue in the very concept. You wouldn't use a ship once the bulk of it's hull is filled with holes. You'd have it be completely repaired from the ground up. Or does the mighty swtorevolution just plug in corks?

 

Hint: That's cartoon physics. It doesn't work that way.

[Jeweledleah]

Craft 230 gear. Crafting gear doesn't rely on RNG. Simple.

 

But of course, "not efficient enough" for you.

 

Complain, then discount any workarounds. Double down.

 

uh. you cannot craft 230 gear without rng. 230 schematics are from galactic command boxes, they are entirely random, and as they are BoL, you cannot buy them from GTN from other people - you are stuck grinding, hoping that the right schematic finally drops.

 

at least if you are going to troll - do some research.

[Mowermanx]

And revisit that 90% nerf to elites. Put a daily limit on how many can be killed for the CXP if you're worried about some hardcore grinder.

 

You know what is really amusing about that?

I had a look at the table of levels for GC, and that clown that grinded like a monkey to hit 100 was facing some serious stuff ahead.

The trip to 100 was a herculean effort in itself, but the trip from 100 to 200 would of probably put him in an asylum, and if he somehow manage to survive that, 200 to 300 would of seen him neck himself, even with the 20 cxp still in place.

[Alssaran]

this is false. bonuses used to be tied to shells for a time there and legacy gear didn't exist because legacy system didn't exist.

 

That must've been very early in the game's content cycle then. I remember the legacy system came in 1.X. I think it was 1.2. I didn't start serious alting until late RotHC and SoR though. It might not have been possible prior to 1.2.

[kodrac]

Confirm User List Modification

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Yes.

[TUXs]

Craft 230 gear. Crafting gear doesn't rely on RNG. Simple.

 

But of course, "not efficient enough" for you.

 

Complain, then discount any workarounds. Double down.

You ignore the fact that there is no set bonus on crafted items...but you probably don't think it means much right?

[Swtorevolution]

It is better to re-think an entire system from the ground up than try to patch it with little band-aids that do not adress the fundamental issue in the very concept. You wouldn't use a ship once the bulk of it's hull is filled with holes. You'd have it be completely repaired from the ground up. Or does the mighty swtorevolution just plug in corks?

 

Hint: That's cartoon physics. It doesn't work that way.

 

 

Thanks for the analogy. I love it when you raiders explain things to me in ways I can understand. Raidersplaining?

You previously said having a couple is beneficial and pays out in the long run. Now you say it's best to get one or two "because you don't need many". You're using semantics to sleaze out of your previous argument, and you're certainly evading the question: Why has "Companion gifts are easy. Get eight companions to 40 and craft. The investment will pan out in the long run!" become "Eight companions on 40 is madness! Take one or two! It's all you need!" It's a direct contradiction

 

You only need a couple of companions (ie. two) to reach maximum purple mat farming efficiency. That's what Eli has said consistently and never once said you have to max out all your companions. You said that. You are the one using semantics to twist his words.

 

Not that Eli needs anyone else to defend him.

[Tsillah]

That must've been very early in the game's content cycle then. I remember the legacy system came in 1.X. I think it was 1.2. I didn't start serious alting until late RotHC and SoR though. It might not have been possible prior to 1.2.

 

Yeah he's right. The set bonuses were tied to the armour piece rather than the armoring initially. Of course we didn't have a costume designer yet and the endgame gear looked mostly hideous. So if you wanted to see if someone had endlevel gear all you had to do is spot the uglies lol.

 

The thing is, the game has since evolved in various ways. With 5.0 it feels it's devolved. From my point of view the game was in deep **** in the first year. Once you're out of that, you'd expect them not to find an even bigger pile of **** to sit the game down in.

 

The only way this system could make sense if it was the start of maintenance mode. But then perhaps for group content that's exactly where we're at. The only way this system would work for 6.0 (if that ever comes) is to either throw it out or reset it to zero again.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Tsillah

[Swtorevolution]

You ignore the fact that there is no set bonus on crafted items...but you probably don't think it means much right?

 

It doesn't mean much. It is afterall, a "bonus".

[TUXs]

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Sadly, I highly doubt that's his only account lol.

[Keta]

For the op:

 

Perhaps, but I'm yet to see a single set piece. In the 12 boxes I've opened so far I've received 2 purple earpieces which were very modest upgrades to what the toon had prior (and the second wasn't at all), numerous orange sniper rifles (on my jedi -- bind on pickup), jawa junk, an orange boot iirc, and some rep tokens. Thrills.

 

I haven't bothered with my other eligible toons at all. Most are in 190, some in 208.

 

The devil is in the detail. Adjustments, and soon, are necessary.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Keta

[Alssaran]

You only need a couple of companions (ie. two) to reach maximum purple mat farming efficiency.

 

But wouldn't you need four though? Purple materials can drop from Rich Yield missions and Bountiful Yield missions. The chance for a purple drop is lower on the later though. So, I'd want to maximize my output of purple items. Leaving out how much of an increase in item output the two additional maxed out companions are - wouldn't I need four companions to run both the RY and BY missions simultaneously, and crit as often as possible at the same time?...

[Swtorevolution]

Confirm User List Modification

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Yes.

 

Complain, then discount any differing opinion. Double down.

[Mowermanx]

this is false. bonuses used to be tied to shells for a time there and legacy gear didn't exist because legacy system didn't exist. however, there is a reason back when bioware still listened to feedback, that they changed bonuses from shells to armorings, introduced more and more legacy gear (originally all you had were class sets that at the time were expensive, since credits were not as plentiful), to the point where people have forgotten why the game lost so much of its population back in its first year of existence and had to go f2p EVEN after changing (because for a lot of people it was too little, too late).

 

otherwise I pretty much agree with you post.

 

You're sort of right, but incorrect yourself in that top tier, Rakata was tied to the armourings, but Columi and Tionese were tied to the shell.

[Jeweledleah]

That must've been very early in the game's content cycle then. I remember the legacy system came in 1.X. I think it was 1.2. I didn't start serious alting until late RotHC and SoR though. It might not have been possible prior to 1.2.

 

if I remember correctly - they changed the bonuses to shells somewhat close to RotHC, maybe a few months before it? I cannot remember for sure if Rakata gear started with bonuses bound to armorings, but I know that Tionese and Collumi shells definitely were shell bound.. it was the biggest thing for a lot of people in part because they were stuck all looking the same.

 

in any case, my biggest issue with crafted gear as a substitute for tier sets right now is that they are non moddable. non moddable means you are either made of credits and keep reinstalling augment kits, or do without and suffer drop in performance.

 

edited to add - yep, started the change with Rakata. and my point still stands, originally - helping out alts via your main was not really possible. but originally, the game also lost a LOT of its population and had to go f2p, so.. them going to even worse system now? are they TRYING to kill this game?

 

Yeah he's right. The set bonuses were tied to the armour piece rather than the armoring initially. Of course we didn't have a costume designer yet and the endgame gear looked mostly hideous. So if you wanted to see if someone had endlevel gear all you had to do is spot the uglies lol.

 

The thing is, the game has since evolved in various ways. With 5.0 it feels it's devolved. From my point of view the game was in deep **** in the first year. Once you're out of that, you'd expect them not to find an even bigger pile of **** to sit the game down in.

 

The only way this system could make sense if it was the start of maintenance mode. But then perhaps for group content that's exactly where we're at. The only way this system would work for 6.0 (if that ever comes) is to either throw it out or reset it to zero again.

 

took the words right out of my mouth

Edited December 5, 2016 by Jeweledleah