Glower Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) Im afraid that Bio will nerf Mercs back to crappy state. It's not like they can balance things with tiny steps... Have you seen that powertech utility with 3% health per one shoulder cannon after they nerfed it AND nerfed shoulder cannon itself? Yeah it is still 3% even in 5.0... and still worthless. Edited December 4, 2016 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) A lot of bads playing mercs. Let them be FOTM at least they are waited too long - smash maras was more than 2 years for example. This game all about derp fest and never heard a word "class balance", and mercs die like others. Edited December 4, 2016 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewlmenow Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) Heh, just had a sin and a PT rip my face off using similar to what I said. Dead in <15 seconds. They essentially ignored my shield (if you're dead before it ends it doesn't heal), and CC'd and AOE'd me to death once I hit reflect. As it should be. Edit: And got farmed in a queshball by 2 sins doing the same thing. GG Bloodlines The shield with the utility is op and pretty hard to avoid. Since you can get the heal by clicking off the shield buff, and with how often you can get the shield if they are focusing you, mercs are far more op than Sorcs have been since 3.0. Edited December 4, 2016 by Dewlmenow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) Since you can get the heal by clicking off the shield buff I'd have no problems with them fixing this so clicking off the shield gives no healing. I have to agree with much of what Carthy said. The reflect was *badly* needed as a focus break, but most of what we were asking for was something different. Mainly improvements to rocket out (I'd also add taking it off the GCD and allowing it to be used in mid-air), and removing the ridiculous (mandatory) utility for blazing bolts, and just baking in the ability to use it on the move. Nerfing kolto overload wouldn't be a loss for me, but I suspect nobody would even bother with it if you did that. Energy Rebounder and Stabilized Armor are all but mandatory. Edited December 4, 2016 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptQuazar Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 There will be no balance changes for Mercs until the next expansion! Until then, let Mercs enjoy their well deserved turn at being too stronk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 One of these buffs is OK but 2 of them at the same time? If they had just gone with the shield option, that would have been fine, but they also put kolto back to nearly as good as it used to be originally. As a merc player, who has mained merc for years, even I think it was a tiny bit overkill. If I had to keep one of the two things, it would be the shield change, because it can be negated by not dpsing the merc, and it is the exact hard swap the class required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Reactive shield (the blue shield) being available every 30 seconds is a joke. That needs to be nerfed ASAP. I don't have a problem with merc's reflect or (now worthwhile) kolto overload. Erm... we've always had reactive shield on such a low cooldown. We even had it back when skill trees were still a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoForMe Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) Erm... we've always had reactive shield on such a low cooldown. We even had it back when skill trees were still a thing. I'm aware of that. The difference is it now either heals you to full if you're taking damage, or in a 1v1 situation (as often happens in solo ranked) it now forces me to stop attacking you with anything but a weak AOE for its duration and subsequently working on a 29 second shot clock to kill you, hoping your other defensive aren't about to come back during that time frame as well. All while you can run away from me and heal up. I had a 2 and a half minute 1v1 against a fairly skilled merc last night in solo ranked and it was the most ridiculous thing I've ever experienced. I did 860k damage in the round and he did 470k but the 1v1 was nail-bitingly close and it took an eternity to kill him. The blue shield was the primary reason for this- I have to either stop attacking him and let him heal up with his actual healing abilities or risk him building charges and healing that way. It's overtuned and the healing aspects of reactive shield needs to go. Having it available without the healing perks every 30 seconds is fine by me. Edited December 4, 2016 by EnzoForMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoForMe Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) I'm going to have to disagree with you on this Caprica. The only way Reactive shield is up so much is if the Merc is taking 24/7 damage. It was needed in 4.0 and still is needed now. Before 5.0 was even datamined I posted changes for Mercs on the class sub forum and the pvp forums and it was 2 simple changes that would make the class perfectly balanced. Energy Rebounder (The talent that makes energy shield come off cd faster when being attacked) and Stabilized armor (30% Damage reduction when stunned) Both of these utilities combined into 1 just like AP Powertechs have. Which would allow Mercs to take that talent and allow Arsenal/IO/Body Guard to have a good defensive utility and be able to take blazing bolts/unload w/e the healing ability is called on the move. The second change would be being able to use Rocket out while rooted. Small change but huge for quality of life. In season 7 I had 4 Arsenal Mercs over 1700 rating in solo ranked and 1 1820 or something in Team Ranked. I never played a game with out Energy Rebounder and Stabilized Armor dealing with the mass amounts of Operatives and Marauders was awful but manageable. Having both of those tied together would have made it so much easier because then i'd have been able to take Blazing bolts on the move + having rocket out available to use when I'm rooted (Should always have been able to use when rooted ..... Bioware smh) Now with 5.0 live I came back to look at the Merc changes and what I see is awful. The Reflect ability can stay, 2 Minute CD easy to stop attacking them for the duration. Fits their kit perfectly for rotational cooldowns. The heal2full Utility on Reactive Shield needs to go it's stupid and overpowered, Kolto heal to 70% needs to be toned down to 50-55% For me personally I picked up Merc at the start of 4.0 because I saw it was in a pretty decent place, enjoyed it in solo ranked because I won games with my skill at kiting especially on a Merc. Playing a few games today It's awful and not even close to as fun as it used to be. I free cast and just kill people. I really do encourage Bioware to remove the healing utility for Reactive Shield it's over the top and completely not needed. tl;dr Rocket out while rooted Energy Rebounder and Stabilized Armor 1 utility Remove Healing on Reactive shield Utility Tone down Kolto to 50-55% Remove healing from reflect ability, Maybe even lower the duration from 6 seconds to 4 or 5. With these changes Mercs will again get tunneled in solo ranked first (above most classes) but actually have more of a chance to survive in 4 dps games compared to 4.0 when 1 stun with out a breaker means you're dead. -Carthy/Smh 4 T1 Mercs S7 solo ranked rank 1 merc in team ranked. I should've clarified this: I don't mind you having reactive shield every 30 seconds sans the healing perks that go along with it. I think we actually agree on that, and I should've mentioned I was talking specifically about the healing abilities of reactive shield, not the shield itself. Edited December 4, 2016 by EnzoForMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) but the 1v1 was nail-bitingly close and it took an eternity to kill him. So you're saying you won, but it should have been *easy*. Edited December 4, 2016 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_McSkill Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 PTs are just as strong. ROFL! I hope you're joking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 ROFL! I hope you're joking.... I think it might just be a l2p issue on your end, buddy. Kappa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_McSkill Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I think it might just be a l2p issue on your end, buddy. Kappa Says the merc main of course... Fact is, you now have the BEST defensives in the game. You have self heals. You're ranged. Oh and you have a nice little ability called net. There is no reasonable argument putting PT's on the same level as Mercs. Right now Mercs make up about 50% or more of every wz/arena, there's a reason for this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_J_B Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Says the merc main of course... Fact is, you now have the BEST defensives in the game. You have self heals. You're ranged. Oh and you have a nice little ability called net. There is no reasonable argument putting PT's on the same level as Mercs. Right now Mercs make up about 50% or more of every wz/arena, there's a reason for this.... Next time try and catch the joke before it goes flying over your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Merc/Mando is fine....People have not even tried to counter them yet because they are used to just steamrolling them with no effort.....Now you have to work a bit because the whipping boy put on some muscle.... I was wrecking people on my Shadow very quickly, they were barely able to even fight back between stealth/control/damage it was wicked......Yet everyone is gunning for Merc....Just wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabzizzle Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) I should've clarified this: I don't mind you having reactive shield every 30 seconds sans the healing perks that go along with it. I think we actually agree on that, and I should've mentioned I was talking specifically about the healing abilities of reactive shield, not the shield itself. Most definitely the healing on sheild needs to go. Everything that made Merc fun in s7 has been completely stripped away. There's no challenge queuing on a merc anymore. Having to kite to stay alive? nope just pop a cd and face tank an entire team because you won't die. in S7 there was 3-4 people on Harb who could pull merc off in solo ranked. Now everyone can which to me is very disappointing. Playing solo ranked games last night doing 300-450k healing in 1 round and the only heal im casting is the instant heal to top myself off if i'm hit with dots/aoe, the rest is just defensive cds lol. Really just disgustingly bad play for Mercs atm the skill cap for the class has dropped entirely Edited December 4, 2016 by Gabzizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Most definitely the healing on sheild needs to go. Everything that made Merc fun in s7 has been completely stripped away. There's no challenge queuing on a merc anymore. Having to kite to stay alive? nope just pop a cd and face tank an entire team because you won't die. in S7 there was 3-4 people on Harb who could pull merc off in solo ranked. Now everyone can which to me is very disappointing. Playing solo ranked games last night doing 300-450k healing in 1 round and the only heal im casting is the instant heal to top myself off if i'm hit with dots/aoe, the rest is just defensive cds lol. Really just disgustingly bad play for Mercs atm the skill cap for the class has dropped entirely Skill cap on Merc/Mando actually went up...you have more at your disposal and can survive to utilize your skills without an entire team to prop you up under fire.... You don't seem to be capitalizing on the higher skill cap from your description of playing...but that is your problem not Mercs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Merc/Mando is fine....People have not even tried to counter them yet because they are used to just steamrolling them with no effort.....Now you have to work a bit because the whipping boy put on some muscle.... I was wrecking people on my Shadow very quickly, they were barely able to even fight back between stealth/control/damage it was wicked......Yet everyone is gunning for Merc....Just wait.... Till they nerf sins. Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharianus Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 cute how all those pre 5.0 Op sorcs start to cry about merc/mando hope you enjoy suffering please keep crying i enjoy it so much =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate_river Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 cute how all those pre 5.0 Op sorcs start to cry about merc/mando hope you enjoy suffering please keep crying i enjoy it so much =) Sorcerer dps was op in PvP? Wow... I've always think that was healers... Dude if can't read with understand it back to school... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Sorcerer dps was op in PvP? Wow... I've always think that was healers... Dude if can't read with understand it back to school... Where did he say anything about DPS in his post? The rest I am unable to understand..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharianus Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) Sorcerer dps was op in PvP? Wow... I've always think that was healers... Dude if can't read with understand it back to school... Ah so DoTsorc meta never existed o.k. Dude i think you should go back to school because it damages your brain if you play fotm faceroll sorc for ages just 1 week 5.0 and the little sorc guys start to burst into tears - so refreshing Edited December 5, 2016 by Tharianus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoForMe Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) Says the merc main of course... Fact is, you now have the BEST defensives in the game. You have self heals. You're ranged. Oh and you have a nice little ability called net. There is no reasonable argument putting PT's on the same level as Mercs. Right now Mercs make up about 50% or more of every wz/arena, there's a reason for this.... From a solo ranked perspective, PT dps might actually be last place- sorcs are down there as well. They move up considerably in a group setting but they have always been a glass cannon in solos and now that other classes have more tools in their suitability kit PTs are very left behind. They kind of remind me of how sniper was for solo ranked seasons 3-7. They simply lack the survivability tools needed when they are the first in the kill order. Edited December 5, 2016 by EnzoForMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoForMe Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) So you're saying you won, but it should have been *easy*. No, I actually never said that. There is nothing skillful about having a heal to full every 30 seconds while also having a reflect and buffed kolto overload. Either he is healed by the charges built by the shield or he heals through weak aoe damage abilities for the duration of the shield. You can go for mezzes, but those aren't on a 30 second cool down. I wasn't lining up some great hardswap or coordinating an interesting team play in group ranked. I was chasing this dude around an arena and there was little I could do but whittle him down until acid came around even with my mobility-inhibiting marksman utilities. It was *tedious* not *easy* and certainly not anything resembling skill. I called the merc "fairly skilled" because he knew how playing in this turtling fashion was a legitimate and strong strategy given the tools BIoware has gifted him this patch. It's kind of unprecedented actually- at least sorc barrier was a once or infrequently twice-used ability per round. Edited December 5, 2016 by EnzoForMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabzizzle Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) Skill cap on Merc/Mando actually went up...you have more at your disposal and can survive to utilize your skills without an entire team to prop you up under fire.... You don't seem to be capitalizing on the higher skill cap from your description of playing...but that is your problem not Mercs.... What am I supposed to be doing? I don't get focused because of my insane defensive cooldowns, If my team loses I'm dead last because no one will touch me any sooner unless there is another Merc on the team and they go me instead of the other one. Outside of CC-ing people and peeling/off healing. There is no skill involved in a free casting Merc in solo ranked. Prior to these stupid buffs Merc required *skill* to play in solo ranked. Especially being able to kite and rotate cool downs effectively. I don't know what world you live in but a face tanking Merc with cd's because he can live forever is not skill. Edited December 5, 2016 by Gabzizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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