eartharioch Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Not defending the system, which is plainly a PITA, OP. Gating stuff after the event is plain wrong. But you seem to have 2 choices before (if) it gets changed. Grind the Valor for the thing you want. OR find something you like that you already qualify for. It's too late, the comms were removed Tuesday. The change was made at the same time the comms were removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eartharioch Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I would say the simplest solution is to abandon keeping them exclusive to PvPers and trash the valor requirement. The other solution would be to utilize a vendor-based purchasing lock or make Valor legacy-wide, but I'm not sure they know how to do either. Another workable solution would be to remove the valor requirements from the existing items, make duplicate items with the valor requirements, and replace the old items with the new items on the vendor (so all newly purchased items would have the valor requirements, but old ones wouldn't). They should also make the new ones BoP or BoL, since there is no use in reselling them now and there would be no filling the GTN with the useless versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaelicvixen Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 It's hard to believe this is intentional because of how idiotic it is. And it's mentioned nowhere in the patch notes, at least not that I can find. Here's hoping this is a case of incompetence, negligence, lack of forethought or some combination thereof. Or in other words, that they borrowed a page from ANet's book and completely fubar'ed one thing by changing something else, because to not even give players a warning that they wouldn't be able to use gear they've been using for years in some cases is inexcusable imo. (GW2 was down for a full 8 or 9 hours a few months ago because in attempting to change one very specific item that only some players had in their inventories they managed to break their own game so badly that they had to take everything down while they fixed it. Then just this past Halloween they had to remove a cosmetic item from their version of the CM and disable all those purchased for several hours because equipping or previewing it crashed the game. And I'd say 99% of the time they release a patch, you get hit with at least one hot fix just a couple of hours later.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedidar Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I'm certain the higher ups in Bioware are telling these devs to do their best to kill the game as Bioware want out of the MMO stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 OK, I'm a casual PvPer and usually only did it if I wanted to earn something specific. In this case, I had wanted a certain lightsaber for my Sith (the Battlerager's Lightsaber), for the look. So I did enough PvP to earn the warzone marks to buy it for her.... that was over two years ago...maybe three. Now I find they changed the requirement of that saber she's been using for years to now requiring a Valor Rank of 42 so I logged in and it's flashing red on my screen because she no longer is qualified to use the saber that I've augmented and decked out with mods and have been using for years? I can understand changing the requirements on "new" or "future" acquisitions for PvP....but changing things already earned? That has to be fixed and I sincerely hope it's a bug. I agree with you that they should not introduce new requirements that suddenly prevent you from using a piece of gear earned pre-5.0 In this case, it probably does not hurt most avid PvPers, but it clearly does impact the casual PvPer. I play PvP casually with my guild from time to time, but I always try to stay away from gear that is not generic shells I can put mods into... because I simply do not PvP enough to stay ahead of the curve. So for me, I am very happy to see them homogenize PvE and PvP gear this time around. Makes my life easier, and probably true for other casual PvPers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Come on white knights, defend Bioware! You can do it! Lemme try... 1) "OMG LOL, get over it. You all are just acting like impatient little children who want it NOW." (insult the player, that way you take focus off the real issue) 2) "Good! Now you get to earn it for real instead of getting it in easy mode" (insult how they played the game, takes focus off the real issue) 3) "don't like it, quit" (default attack these days) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasmaJohn Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 3) "don't like it, quit" (default attack these days) I see far too many people taking this advice... Smell like a win for the home team! gg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I see far too many people taking this advice... Smell like a win for the home team! gg Likewise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSStember Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 Here's the real issue. What we're seeing is not merely developers being lazy. It's coordinated. It's deliberate. It's moving the game into the completely utter grind mindset of stuff like Perfect World does. Reputation systems with tiers? Lockboxes? Story missions that don't even really make sense if you group up, but are seemingly specifically designed for single player? End-game content that not only requires endless grinding but rewards nothing but more grinding? Star Trek Online laid out the template for this YEARS ago. Yeah, most other MMORPGs (GW2, WoW, LoTRO, TSW, etc) encourage you to group up, some even make content that is very hard to do alone....SWTOR has gone the opposite route creating a single player adventure with MMO social aspects. My girlfriend and I used to team up all the time in SWTOR, doing planetary missions together, and then helping each other out on the class missions, but now..... it's pretty much impossible to do any of the new story in group unless you just want to repeat it twice and take turns being the "lead", and since it's always the same story now, that means one would "spoil" it for the other. So now my gf and I pretty much play Star Wars on our own, and then save our group time for games like GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtualMorrigan Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Lemme try... 1) "OMG LOL, get over it. You all are just acting like impatient little children who want it NOW." (insult the player, that way you take focus off the real issue) 2) "Good! Now you get to earn it for real instead of getting it in easy mode" (insult how they played the game, takes focus off the real issue) 3) "don't like it, quit" (default attack these days) Well. You have earned my respect now. That is quite perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarian Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Another workable solution would be to remove the valor requirements from the existing items, make duplicate items with the valor requirements, and replace the old items with the new items on the vendor. The easiest thing might be to make the valor requirements in line with what the original requirements were. Basically, the cost used to be a weekly's worth of comms. So, change the valor requirement to whatever you'd get if you started from 0 and did a weekly - 5 or so, I think? This was suggested to Bioware in a thread that they were active in, back in October... (Incidentally, it seems clear to me that the point of these weapons, given their low price, was to get people to try PvP. It worked with me. With the current valor requirement, their purpose has been changed to...I don't know what.) Or if possible, a valor requirement to purchase but not to equip - but that might be trickier to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkside Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 (edited) When we discussed valor requirements on items prior to 5.0, because BW wanted to keep the items exclusive to PvPers (since comms were going away) I was imagining a vendor purchasing restriction, not a restriction on the item itself that apparently ****s up your ability to use it even if you already own it. This was clearly an oversight. Nothing more, nothing less. They obviously didn't take into account people who already own the items, nor did they take into account situations like this one: I would say the simplest solution is to abandon keeping them exclusive to PvPers and trash the valor requirement. The other solution would be to utilize a vendor-based purchasing lock or make Valor legacy-wide, but I'm not sure they know how to do either. I would even argue that they don't seem capable of coding a lot of things in this game. Which is why get such shoddy patches full of asinine design decisions like what we are seeing here with the weapons/decos valor situation. Really they need to fire the staff and hire competent developers. Edited December 1, 2016 by Darkside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 i agree. I've been using the same saber on my warrior going on 5 years now and can't use it anymore. Retroactive requirements is a big no-no. What's earned is earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuk Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 It's hard to believe this is intentional because of how idiotic it is. And it's mentioned nowhere in the patch notes, at least not that I can find. Here's hoping this is a case of incompetence, negligence, lack of forethought or some combination thereof. Or in other words, that they borrowed a page from ANet's book and completely fubar'ed one thing by changing something else, because to not even give players a warning that they wouldn't be able to use gear they've been using for years in some cases is inexcusable imo. (GW2 was down for a full 8 or 9 hours a few months ago because in attempting to change one very specific item that only some players had in their inventories they managed to break their own game so badly that they had to take everything down while they fixed it. Then just this past Halloween they had to remove a cosmetic item from their version of the CM and disable all those purchased for several hours because equipping or previewing it crashed the game. And I'd say 99% of the time they release a patch, you get hit with at least one hot fix just a couple of hours later.) At least in there things gets fixed pretty quickly, versus over here where there are still bugs hanging around since 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Ladies, gentlemen and gentlebeings ..this is what happens when you let someone decide who relies on statistics purely. BW, your golden goose, the one who said it'll be alright, managed to make all the wrong decisions. Gz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Come on white knights, defend Bioware! You can do it! Nope. Not gonna do it. This is ridiculous. None of that gear was all that expensive to obtain, you could get any part of it with relatively little time invested. Retroactively locking it behind a stiff valor requirement is 2/10 for making a gesture to keeping them PvP-exclusive and minus several million for side effect. I award them no points and may god have mercy on their souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSpuds Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 It's hard to believe this is intentional because of how idiotic it is. How idiotic it is is what convinced me it is very deliberate. No one, and I mean NO ONE EVER, can be this idiotic by mistake. It takes SERIOUS effort to be this idiotic. All The Best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolodome Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Nope. Not gonna do it. This is ridiculous. None of that gear was all that expensive to obtain, you could get any part of it with relatively little time invested. Retroactively locking it behind a stiff valor requirement is 2/10 for making a gesture to keeping them PvP-exclusive and minus several million for side effect. I award them no points and may god have mercy on their souls. You know it's bad when IanArgent talks like this, BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 You know it's bad when IanArgent talks like this, BW. Right?! Now we know something is screwed up TBH, Ian has always been reasonable...far more so than other members of his "gang"... (I KID!!! The "gang" part is meant for Bruticus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolodome Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Right?! Now we know something is screwed up TBH, Ian has always been reasonable...far more so than other members of his "gang"... (I KID!!! The "gang" part is meant for Bruticus) Lol! True that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Right?! Now we know something is screwed up TBH, Ian has always been reasonable...far more so than other members of his "gang"... (I KID!!! The "gang" part is meant for Bruticus) There are quite a lot of people I wish would get off my side. I was always very careful to note in my defenses that "if they did this" or "they could do this." Well, it doesn't look like they listened to me. As I noted elsewhere, I haven't really played the new game yet, but early reports don't sound good. Especially if they did not make good on the promise of a crate an hour for casual play as the median rate, and more crates for harder/larger-group activities. That's not cool at all. I'm not gonna quit or anything, I still have plenty to do in game regardless of how much CXP I get, but I may be fading into the bushes a bit and doffing my shiny white armor, here on the forums. Bioware, I am disappoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 (edited) I was always very careful to note in my defenses that "if they did this" or "they could do this." Well, it doesn't look like they listened to me. As I noted elsewhere, I haven't really played the new game yet, but early reports don't sound good. Especially if they did not make good on the promise of a crate an hour for casual play as the median rate, and more crates for harder/larger-group activities. That's not cool at all.. They absolutely did not make good on that promise. Casual play gives you tiny amounts of Command points. For example, I have been told each Warzone gives you only 20 CXP. It would take many, many hours of casual solo play to earn even one Command rank. By contrast, I did a 16 man SM run of SnV (the longest op in the game with the most bosses) last night and earned... a whole Command level and a half for my time. And that crate awarded me nothing but Jawa junk and companion gifts. Edited December 1, 2016 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alssaran Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Or it could be that those "white knights" don't actually exist to defend BW but instead point out why some complaints are actually invalid. In this case there is nothing invalid about the OP situation. You seem to be a very salty person. People are not defending this because it's meaningless to defend. That player was stripped off his earned weapon. It's amazing how you jump onto this example (which TUX does too, shame on you) in order to try and prove how Bioware's actions are indefendable. I don't need to defend this because it is obviously a design flaw on their part. I can point out that I like the expansion, like GC, and I tremendously enjoy the story. It seems to make me a white knight when I (subjectively) disagree with people on the idea that the systems are bad. Again: Trying to make the lack of a response out as the "White Knights" (whoever they are) being at a loss for words to defend their beloved developer is plainly paranoid nonsense. Nobody simply sees the need to "defend" this "design choice" because stripping a player from existing equipped was (probably) an oversight on their part - not an actual choice that needs justification. I think they just don't care anymore. EA's just put the game into maintenance mode and is trying to see how long they can keep people paying with the absolute minimum of effort put in. And this is why nobody takes these forums seriously anymore. A slight oversight during a chance, and one that can be easily corrected at that, is immediately blown out of proportion as evidence of their total lack of player regard, and it is used to infer to intentions that aren't even remotly shown at all. That is why even Bioware doesn't listen to you anymore. You've become an incomprehensible bunch of people who cry "Deception!" for the least issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 (edited) And this is why nobody takes these forums seriously anymore. A slight oversight during a chance, and one that can be easily corrected at that, is immediately blown out of proportion as evidence of their total lack of player regard, and it is used to infer to intentions that aren't even remotly shown at all. That is why even Bioware doesn't listen to you anymore. You've become an incomprehensible bunch of people who cry "Deception!" for the least issue. I'm saying EAWare doesn't care based on everything they've done to this point, especially in 5.0, not just this one little thing. Don't try to turn this around on the paying customers with concerns by slinging mud all over the place. How about you drop the insults and ad hominem attacks against everyone who is unhappy with the current situation if you don't want to be painted as a 'white knight'? If you think EAWare just 'made a mistake' in putting all those PvP items and decorations retroactively behind a Valor wall, then say that instead of bashing everyone who's upset for daring to be upset. Edited December 1, 2016 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXxSPYROxXx Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I have to say this thread reads my mind and frustration. I agree with the OP. I am not a PvPer, never have been and never will be. My region of the world the server lag is terrible, and Ive even had to step away from raiding (which I loved) I managed to bring myself to push my toons through WZ to earn the unique sabers that simply don't drop anywhere anymore. Im an RP player for the most part... and for my jedi/sith characters, yanno, their saber is very damn special! Now numerous of my toons have the red inventory, and no longer can use their weapons... They ant just change the requirements on rewards like that, we met the requirements and earned those rewards at the time we got them. I actually did write a ticket expressing the issue, and requested that they perhaps revert the requirements on pre-5.0 ones, and keep the 5.0+ ones with their new requirements, but it was a polite reply of basically 'cant do anything about it, find new lightsabers.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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