Removing expertise does not put PVErs on equal ground

[-Bob-]

It's funny watching these PVE guys in Warzones.

What they don't understand is, Expertise didnt make a player good, or better. Some of these Sorcs i encounter never even pop Barrier. Lots of people don't know when to use their DCDs if they use them at all, most just face tank and get rolled. I'm not talking about just the enemy teams, I'm also talking about teams i've been on..it's really rough watching these guys play but i have to LOL and watch em.

[Liquor]

To win has come down to who or what is on you're right side. If it is a bunch of no names. They won't call incoming. They melt and don't move around.

 

PvP is a face roll and it isn't fun being on either side. There's no challenge or its frustrating

[mfourcustom]

There was a time where the majority of the games player base was at least above average players.. Now its the opposite.. People don't call incs, People don't know how to count, people don't even keybind or know what keybinding is and if they do they say they don't like it.... I just know for a fact there was a time where not every game was just face roll one side or another granted this was before the mass exodus of guilds in 2.4 when 8s got removed for no reason but ya...

[-Bob-]

yeah i know what you guys mean, i realize this has been a problem since...WAAAAY before now. I just happened to notice a surge of it, or at least i thought i did, and felt it was due to 5.0 and the removal of PVP stat.

Maybe i imagined it a bit but these current players are some of the worst i've ever seen.

This is why i wish all my friends had not quit, this is the reason premades exist hahaha

[TrixxieTriss]

It's funny watching these PVE guys in Warzones.

What they don't understand is, Expertise didnt make a player good, or better. Some of these Sorcs i encounter never even pop Barrier. Lots of people don't know when to use their DCDs if they use them at all, most just face tank and get rolled. I'm not talking about just the enemy teams, I'm also talking about teams i've been on..it's really rough watching these guys play but i have to LOL and watch em.

 

Spam force storm, spam force storm, spam force storm.. isn't that the rotation

Getting attacked, spam force storm on the attacker, spam force storm, spam forc.. oh crap I'm dead.. expertise is so OP.. oh wait there's is no expertise anymore.. must be hacks

[Lithdox]

Another reason why I'm gone.

[TrixxieTriss]

yeah i know what you guys mean, i realize this has been a problem since...WAAAAY before now. I just happened to notice a surge of it, or at least i thought i did, and felt it was due to 5.0 and the removal of PVP stat.

Maybe i imagined it a bit but these current players are some of the worst i've ever seen.

This is why i wish all my friends had not quit, this is the reason premades exist hahaha

 

I call it PVE premade hunting. They all stay together to try and protect each other and you can just go through them like a lightsabre through butter. When they all group like that you can sometimes get 3 solos in one engagement.

[Gray]

The problem is that BioWare shouldn't have touched the leveling pace in this game. F1 Rally leveling pace, insta 60 chars etc. this breeds bad players who never truly learn how to use their abilities before they get new ones.

They should've given the option for faster leveling pace to us veteran players through legacy somehow but keeping the game like it was back in the day for new comers.

 

I've never seen so much trash untill as of late when all these adjustments happened. Now I've seen operatives moving around without stealth and when they attack they stand firm like a tower on the ground spamming Snipe while Sins does nothing but spamming lacerate what the hell this never happened back in the day not even in lvl 10 pvp.

 

Now they're dumbing the game down because they realize that the new comers will never reach the same brain capacity like us old timers got back when we leveled up our characters in vanilla version through pvp level by level, not 1-50 in a day by doing weekly heroics with xp boosts and x200 XP.

 

They've created their own mess and there is no way out the door is shut.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Gray

[Xertasian]

bob your post hit the point in many ways..i was stressing about rushing to lvl 70 for cxp..seeing the baddies in wz's now..not even sweating it..i gonna get all toons to lvl 70 and chill in wz's..cuz with the bolster 208 rated gear with set bonus is hitting hard..

[t-darko]

So what you guys are saying is that; " The new guys is acting like new guys, that's BaD!!!" Guess that got some logic to it, and Bravo for your veteran keen eyes to notice that!

 

And what are they thinking, these new guys, trying to increase the game's pvp playerbase, we can't have that now, - can we!!?

 

No, lets just go back and demand matchmaking in Regs on an all too small player base . . .

And god forbid if we're risking too fast pops . . .

Not to mention competitive pvp, 'cos that's why we've been crowding ranked these past years . . .

 

[Lithdox]

So what you guys are saying is that; " The new guys is acting like new guys, that's BaD!!!" Guess that got some logic to it, and Bravo for your veteran keen eyes to notice that!

 

And what are they thinking, these new guys, trying to increase the game's pvp playerbase, we can't have that now, - can we!!?

 

No, lets just go back and demand matchmaking in Regs on an all too small player base . . .

And god forbid if we're risking too fast pops . . .

Not to mention competitive pvp, 'cos that's why we've been crowding ranked these past years . . .

 

 

Triggered

[frosttj]

So what you guys are saying is that; " The new guys is acting like new guys, that's BaD!!!" Guess that got some logic to it, and Bravo for your veteran keen eyes to notice that!

 

And what are they thinking, these new guys, trying to increase the game's pvp playerbase, we can't have that now, - can we!!?

 

No, lets just go back and demand matchmaking in Regs on an all too small player base . . .

And god forbid if we're risking too fast pops . . .

Not to mention competitive pvp, 'cos that's why we've been crowding ranked these past years . . .

 

 

They'll be back here complaining in a few months about dead pops and how BW killed PVP. Never was it the toxic attitude of the community that turns people off to PVP.

[Lithdox]

They'll be back here complaining in a few months about dead pops and how BW killed PVP. Never was it the toxic attitude of the community that turns people off to PVP.

 

Triggered

[midianlord]

So what you guys are saying is that; " The new guys is acting like new guys, that's BaD!!!" Guess that got some logic to it, and Bravo for your veteran keen eyes to notice that!

 

And what are they thinking, these new guys, trying to increase the game's pvp playerbase, we can't have that now, - can we!!?

 

No, lets just go back and demand matchmaking in Regs on an all too small player base . . .

And god forbid if we're risking too fast pops . . .

Not to mention competitive pvp, 'cos that's why we've been crowding ranked these past years . . .

 

 

Christ, there's always one...

 

Has it ever occured to any of these sanctimonious "EHMERGERD THE CHILDREN!!!" white knights that the objects of their attentions rarely deserve any of it?

 

But what the Hell, this might just convince me to end my long PvP self-exile on my main toons...

 

Gotta see if I can get a 25k crit RailShot or 30k HeatSeeker before all the tryhard useless *******s inevitably get my Mercs nerfed into uselessness again...

Edited November 30, 2016 by midianlord

[kissingaiur]

Expertise wasn't removed in the first place, it was just rolled into bolster. You will notice you are roughly doing the same damage in PvP as before just scaled.

 

On topic I would say I see nothing wrong with pvp being made more "accessible" for those who didn't want to play the 2 hours to grind a full set of gear before the expansion (yes it was literally that easy). Making them be able to walk in with decent gear is fine but what pvpers need to understand is that means there will be an influx of players trying pvp out for the first time. Stop trying to discourage these people from trying it just because they are new. I know all of us as been in their shoes.

 

To the new pvers or rpers trying pvp for the first time: understand that pvp is a small niche community. It is run by ego and number output. Just try to listen for call out and ask questions if you are confused. Ignore and block the trolls. Also, keep in mind that gear alone doesn't make the "good" pvper. Knowledge and class understanding does. Don't expect to walk in and be able to the best out there. There is a learning curve.

 

Happy hunting everyone .

Edited November 30, 2016 by kissingaiur

[Maelmordha]

I'm glad they changed it.

 

I'm used to it because every so**ing time the character level increased all the expertise on my kit was nerfed to PvE stats anyway. I gave up for 2 years after the last lot (and getting pi**ed off with all the smash monkeys). At least I can get back into PvP without having to gear up twice.

 

Multiple discipline sets would be good though, one for PvP and one for PvE........ Other MMOs do it so why cant BW?

Edited November 30, 2016 by Maelmordha

[Bannidles]

It's funny watching these PVE guys in Warzones.

What they don't understand is, Expertise didnt make a player good, or better. Some of these Sorcs i encounter never even pop Barrier. Lots of people don't know when to use their DCDs if they use them at all, most just face tank and get rolled. I'm not talking about just the enemy teams, I'm also talking about teams i've been on..it's really rough watching these guys play but i have to LOL and watch em.

 

So what you are saying is that people new to PVP do not know a lot of PVP stat and when to use certain abilities...I don't believe you. People new to things are usually better than those with experience....

 

I don't think it is a matter to putting people that are new on equal ground to those who are PVP veterans. More like putting 2 people with similar ability on equal ground.

 

PVE is completely different. Face tanking is the only tanking that matters and it takes time to learn when to use your cool downs in a pvp environment .

 

Fort the many threads that exist regard BW and EA ruining PVP, this kind of attitude is the number one killer.

[eriksarcasm]

It's funny watching these PVE guys in Warzones.

What they don't understand is, Expertise didnt make a player good, or better. Some of these Sorcs i encounter never even pop Barrier. Lots of people don't know when to use their DCDs if they use them at all, most just face tank and get rolled. I'm not talking about just the enemy teams, I'm also talking about teams i've been on..it's really rough watching these guys play but i have to LOL and watch em.

 

You fooled me once with a strange post like this... but I'm not sure if you're being humorous this time or not. I want to believe this was posted in jest but... hell, I'm just not sure.

 

At the very least some of the responses seem to take your words at face value. To them I say... are you serious? You spent weeks complaining how RNGearing would make PvP a gear game as opposed to the skill game it was, and how RNGearing would make PvE'ers better than you because of their gear....then Bob- observes how that isn't true, PvE'ers still suck, and you're all back to your usual F*** OFF N00BS STOP RUINING OUR GAME attitudes? I'm really not sure what the PvP community even wants anymore.

[Jagaimee]

In other words, "Removing expertise made all these adorable little PVErs think they stood a chance against us big bad PVP champions - how cute! ...lol no, it's annoying, go away, PVErs. You're not welcome here."

 

...so, business as per usual, then? Shun the PVErs thinking they can finally get those Pierce/Forex missions off their quest log - or just try PVP because hey, now I'm not nerfed because I have the wrong gear? Yeah...no duh, removing expertise doesn't put PVErs on "equal ground." People who are new to PVP will act like they are new, regardless of gear. Gasp. How shocking. So teach them! Point out what they're doing wrong, make notes of what they're doing *right*, encourage them, and you might gain a valuable new teammate. Just as you would as if they were in full PVP gear...? Right?

[RACATW]

Weird. My server had all the good players out last night.

[Colivar]

I'm still undecided on the new pvp system. Day before the patch I could go into a warzone and even without support I felt like I could contribute (Jedi Knight). After the patch I tend to just get melted in a few seconds with no heals even popping DCDs. This is at 65 currently so maybe at 70 it is a different beast entirely. As it is right now though the fun has been drained out of pvp for me. I have never been a hardcore pvper I just enjoyed doing some warzones each day. I'll keep testing things and see how it is at 70 but there is a real chance that I just call it quits with pvp. Do the story and then move to a different game.

[Schoock]

In other words, "Removing expertise made all these adorable little PVErs think they stood a chance against us big bad PVP champions - how cute! ...lol no, it's annoying, go away, PVErs. You're not welcome here."

 

...so, business as per usual, then? Shun the PVErs thinking they can finally get those Pierce/Forex missions off their quest log - or just try PVP because hey, now I'm not nerfed because I have the wrong gear? Yeah...no duh, removing expertise doesn't put PVErs on "equal ground." People who are new to PVP will act like they are new, regardless of gear. Gasp. How shocking. So teach them! Point out what they're doing wrong, make notes of what they're doing *right*, encourage them, and you might gain a valuable new teammate. Just as you would as if they were in full PVP gear...? Right?

 

I can count on one hand (and by that i mean the good old unary counting, nothing tricky) the number of times anyone said "hey, i'm new to pvp; do you have any advice?"

 

But hey, do you know what I've seen a lot more? "f*** off, i just want pierce"

[TrixxieTriss]

I'm glad they changed it.

 

I'm used to it because every so**ing time the character level increased all the expertise on my kit was nerfed to PvE stats anyway. I gave up for 2 years after the last lot (and getting pi**ed off with all the smash monkeys). At least I can get back into PvP without having to gear up twice.

 

Multiple discipline sets would be good though, one for PvP and one for PvE........ Other MMOs do it so why cant BW?

 

Just roll an operative if you want to smash monkey;)

[Gray]

Those who are new to pvp should learn some manners and stick with lowbie level pvp untill they feel ready to advance to high end bracket because there are expectations in max level PvP.

 

That's why the PvP community becomes toxic against new comers because they completely disrespect the end game content we got, ruining the little competitive pvp that is left in this game it sucks to faceroll bads and also to carry deadweight in the same team.

 

Pre-5.0 we had this wave of PvE players entering warzones in their Outlander MK-1 gear because of 1 companion out of a dozen. Sayings things like "I don't care, it's not my fault BioWare forced me to PvP to get it". The same companion is equal to all the other companions in game it's the same ******* different skin.

 

It's just a really egocentric nature acting like a leech and ruining the experience for so many ppl when they should go back to practice a bit in lowbies instead while farming commendations which they later should have used to purchase now extinct pvp tokens to send to their main.

 

then once they'd have enough to buy at least a full tier 1 Cynosure set then they should jump in and carry themself and contribute to the team in wz rather then having us carry them to through 20 warzones to get that silly companion.

 

It's like showing up in a NiM raid without gear and the experience of a single flashpoint in this game.

 

The PvE community and new comers often thinks that the PvP community is toxic because we are very loud and vocal against them for "no obvious reason" while we are in fact angry at them for their selfish-egocentric and arrogant nature.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Gray

[TrixxieTriss]

Those who are new to pvp should learn some manners and stick with lowbie level pvp untill they feel ready to advance to high end bracket because there are expectations in max level PvP.

 

That's why the PvP community becomes toxic against new comers because they completely disrespect the end game content we got, ruining the little competitive pvp that is left in this game it sucks to faceroll bads and also to carry deadweight in the same team.

 

Pre-5.0 we had this wave of PvE players entering warzones in their Outlander MK-1 gear because of 1 companion out of a dozen. Sayings things like "I don't care, it's not my fault BioWare forced me to PvP to get it".

 

It's just really egocentric nature acting like a leech and ruining the experience for so many ppl when they should go back to practice a bit in lowbies instead while farming commendations which they later should have used to purchase now extinct pvp tokens to send to their main.

 

then once they'd have a full set they could jump in and carry themself and contribute to the team in wz rather then having us carry them to through 20 warzones to get that silly companion.

 

It's like showing up in a NiM raid without the experience of a single flashpoint in this game.

 

This expansion will exacerbate the issues more. I've been a proponent for years of people being left in the mids bracket until they reach a certain amount of Valor. End game pvp is not where you learn how to pvp. Having a system like that would remove a lot of the toxicity from end game pvp and also improve the quality.

But it seems they can't even setup ranked with Valor properly. 25 Valor to enter ranked is a joke. So my previous idea would never happen.

The only way forward is for new people to learn manners and ask questions as well as follow ledgitmate directions on how to win. But veterans need to be more understanding and try and help these newbies before they turn into noobs who are rude and never listen because they already think they know everything.

You have to get to the newbies early, before the noobs or the toxic people do. The way to do that is to try and help or befriend them. If that means running some premades with them to give guidance or do some dueling or helping at the training dummies, it's worth the investment if just 50% take you up the offer and end up learning the right way to pvp.

As for the noobs already out there, they are a lost cause. If you find you keep popping with them and they are ruining your fun, just leave and requeue. You should not have to carry idiots who won't learn or are abusive.