Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Consular Changes

[aghori_Jedi]

Does this make sense to anyone else? I know it's replacing a skill but why even bother? After level 10, Sorcs don't even use melee skills.

 

it summarize exactly who we trying to deal with lol....

BW fire the guy who is responsible for class changes....surely cant go worst then this ?

[Krazhez]

Does this make sense to anyone else? I know it's replacing a skill but why even bother? After level 10, Sorcs don't even use melee skills.

 

A lot of the changes seem to be pvp changes, I'm thinking that's for when people get close to you and you can hit and run away. Granted sorcs don't need this, they already have too many escapes.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Shadow DPS currently has the worst mobility in the game, and Tanks are supposed to be more mobile to compensate for their squishiness.

 

Removing Phase Walk makes absolutely no sense.

 

~ Eudoxia

[nyrkverse]

The removal of Phase Walk from Shadows and Assassins is a travesty and the reasons given makes me really think no one responsible for these changes actually plays the class in anything that's even remotely challenging.

 

The idea that Shadows/Assassins were too mobile is ludicrous. What about Marauders/Sentinels then? Three mobility skills on 15, 30 and 45 seconds plus force camo that also gives a speed buff when used (45 sec CD).

 

Shadowsins had force speed (whose CD was increased in 4.0 to 30 seconds, 25 if you spend an utility point), Phantom Stride (30 secs CD, quite unreliable in many circumstances) and Phase Walk, an ability that requires a little bit of planning and familiarity with the fight or map for optimal use. It's not a speed buff you hit when you need it.

 

And now it's gone, leaving us with just force speed and phantom stride.

 

On top of this, Phantom stride, unreliability aside, is a rotational offensive ability for Deception/Infiltration in PvE, so 1 discipline out of 3 is now a sitting duck. But it's bad for Hatred/Serenity too and worse for Darkness/Kinetic.

 

And if taking it away from Shadows/Assassins wasn't enough, Sorcerers/Sages who should never have been given it in the first place (they have RANGE, heals and a powerful escape/anti focus tool already) get to keep it...seriously, you cannot make this stuff up.

[Kaze-Yama]

I understand the changes made to deception. Giving sins 2 free escapes with phase walk and force cloak may have been too much. However taking away phase walk from tanks really hurts their ability to re-position in fights and it was incredibly useful in a bunch of boss fights. Either make it exclusive to darkness spec or give darkness spec a new ability or passive to offset this. Maybe let darkness tanks be able to phantom stride to allies or something else since they seem to be getting nothing new aside from the utilities.

[FlameYOL]

Assassin

After giving every class some additional mobility in Knights of the Fallen Empire, we felt that Assassins were left a bit too mobile. So with Knights of the Eternal Throne we have reduced some of the Assassin’s mobility while simultaneously enhancing their identity as a powerful, stealthy melee class.

• Thrash: Now granted at level 1 as an Assassin exclusive.
  
• Lightning Charge: Now a passive buff.
  
• Guard: Now available at level 16. No longer requires Dark Charge.
  
• Dark Charge: Removed from Advanced Class. Now granted as Discipline passive in Darkness.
  
• Phase Walk: Removed from base class. Now Sorcerer exclusive.
  
• Reaping Strike: New ability for the Deception Discipline. High damage single-target skill on a 15s cooldown that is usable from stealth or within 15 seconds of landing a critical hit.
  

 

Each Advanced Class is receiving a new suite of Legendary Utilities, here are some of the Assassin’s:

• Reaper’s Rush: Phantom Stride grants Reaper’s Rush, allowing your next Assassinate to be used on any target, regardless of remaining health. Reaper’s Rush lasts for 10 seconds. Additionally, if the target of your Phantom Stride is killed within 10 seconds of using Phantom Stride, the cooldown of Phantom Stride is reset.
  
• Renewing Darkness: When entering stealth with Force Cloak you generate a stack of Renewing Darkness and heal 4% of your maximum health every 2 seconds for 10 seconds. Stacks last for 6 seconds. When stealth is broken, each stack of Renewing Darkness heals you for 4% of your health.
  
• Retaliatory Grip: Deflection grants Retaliatory Grip, reflecting 50% (or 100% for the Darkness discipline) of all direct single target tech and Force damage back at the attacker for 12 seconds. Does not absorb incoming damage.
  

 

Warning:Text wall ahead

 

Eric i know you're just a Messenger but as somebody who mains a Sith Assassin for 2 years this is my opinion:

Passive charges are a great idea,i've had myself and friends forgetting to change the charges sometimes so this eliminates that problem(if possible implemente something like the keybind files except with armor,discipline and quickbars)

Trash being removed from sorcs isn't a big deal.

Guards for non-tanks should be at max 10% damage reduction without lowering threat(or if DPS X wants to guard healer Y no damage reduction but lower threat generation),it should however,remain the same for tank Shadows/Sins.

Phase walk should be removed from Sith Sorcerers,not really a point in giving them greater mobility,they already have a lot with force barrier making them invulnerable,bubbles that reduce damage,force speed and the fact that they are ranged gives them greater mobility than the assassin already,removing phase walk from this class is pointless(Final note: I at least use it often to avoid placement failures or even falls)

Reaping strike seems like a good idea for deception.

Reaper Rush seems like a good idea to balance the fact that deception users can't use assassinate anytime,however how would this work with Hatred sins?Will you be removing bloodletting?or can these 2 be used together.

Renewing darkness is defitenly a good idea to balance things out between juggs and sins in terms of self-healing.

The grip thing seems also to be useful,however i believe na 50% for darkness players with all kinds of damaged being thrown back would be more versatile.

[Golgulok]

The removal of Phasewalk for Assassins / Shadows is THE most egregious betrayal and damaging change I have EVER seen made to any class in this game. It's beyond belief.

[Frenesi]

The removal of Phasewalk for Assassins / Shadows is THE most egregious betrayal and damaging change I have EVER seen made to any class in this game. It's beyond belief.

 

Oh please. You weren't around here during 2.0 landing, were you? That's where all assassin specs really got it without lube.

[nyrkverse]

I understand the changes made to deception. Giving sins 2 free escapes with phase walk and force cloak may have been too much.

However taking away phase walk from tanks really hurts their ability to re-position in fights and it was incredibly useful in a bunch of boss fights. Either make it exclusive to darkness spec or give darkness spec a new ability or passive to offset this. Maybe let darkness tanks be able to phantom stride to allies or something else since they seem to be getting nothing new aside from the utilities.

 

It hurts DPS too, and quite badly, especially Deception/Infiltration. I can count on one hand the bosses where I didn't use phasewalk. Especially since the increased CD on force speed. Almost everything a Sin tank uses PW for, a DPS does too. We are melee, we need to stay on target and move quickly to adds or during transitions. PW made it possible while adding also a little bit of strategic planning (nothing fancy, still it's fun to find the best places and the best moments to use it). Its removal is a huge blow to our mobility and makes the AC a little less entertaining to play. Both things are bad.

[MasterFeign]

I'm still confused as to how the sins had a lot of mobility to begin with. I figure though if they want to get rid of sin phasewalk, they should at least reduce the CD on force run, for sins...

[Cuiwe]

No more Pwalk for shadows/sins, even though they had it before sages/sorcs?

Not gonna lie, pretty pissed off about that.

Oh, and about "shadows/sins = most mobile" m8 have you even seen scoundrels/operatives?

 

EDIT: Also, no TK Throw/FLightning? How are the Balance/Madness and KCombat/Darkness specs gonna work?

And no Mind Crush/Crushing Darkness? How are the Serenity/Hatred specs gonna work?

 

They get Depredating / Cascading at 10. Serenity also gets Vanquish earlier. Nothing has really changed. edit: Except the quite unnecessary PW removal ofc. O.o

Edited November 7, 2016 by Cuiwe

[Okod]

One big change that we made with Fallen Empire was to work on increasing the overall mobility and survivability of the Sorcerer.

 

I believe the correct responses to this is "lul wat?". Yes, I believe buffing Sorcerer mobility and survivability was what every player was clamouring for. Well done.

 

Also, to those complaining about the removal of Phase Walk; It's OK, we have Thrash as an exclusive ability now. Yay.

 

Guard changes? I can't even.

[heythereqt]

After giving every class some additional mobility in Knights of the Fallen Empire, we felt that Assassins were left a bit too mobile. So with Knights of the Eternal Throne we have reduced some of the Assassin’s mobility while simultaneously enhancing their identity as a powerful, stealthy melee class.

• Phase Walk: Removed from base class. Now Sorcerer exclusive.
  

 

I love the rest of the class changes, but taking away phase walk is absurd. Even with phase walk, I would make the argument that assassins/shadows were the least mobile of any melee class.

 

Most of us didn't mind when you guys gave sorcs/sages phase walk, because you gave us Shadow Stride. That is until we actually got to use Shadow Stride in-game, and discovered that it only works about 60% of the time...the other 40% resulting in you only getting halfway to your target, getting flung up in the air, or just not moving at all. The percentage of a successful shadow stride drops to about 1% when your target is on even slighty different level terrain than you. Now you've essentially stolen phase walk and given it to sorcs, who also have a barrier that heals, a powerful instant heal, a powerful HoT, god bubble with the ability to heal to full health after use, cleanse with a short cooldown, force speed, and group member pull. In huttball, a sorc can phase walk/god bubble in the enemy team endzone, and proceed to pull the ball carrier to them for an instant score, and there's not a damn thing any class can do about that now.

 

Suggestion to the Devs

If you're completely set on taking away Phase Walk from sins/shadows, then cut our cooldown for force speed in half. For comparison, an operative that does 2 Exfiltrates in a row will get them about the same distance as a sin with force speed, and yet the cooldown on Exfiltrate is half the time. Add that to the fact that operatives have a designated root cleanse, a teleport-to-target that actually works, and now a pushback. They're laughably more mobile than sins now.

 

EDIT: Also, if you take Star Wars lore into consideration with the likes of Darth Maul and Satele Shan, an argument can easily be made that assassins/shadows should be the most mobile class in the game. The entire idea behind the class is that we use the force to enhance our speed and physical abilities. Even if it means sacrificing a bit of DPS.

Edited November 8, 2016 by heythereqt

[FlavivsAetivs]

I love the rest of the class changes, but taking away phase walk is absurd. Even with phase walk, I would make the argument that assassins/shadows were the least mobile of any melee class.

 

Most of us didn't mind when you guys gave sorcs/sages phase walk, because you gave us Shadow Stride. That is until we actually got to use Shadow Stride in-game, and discovered that it only works about 60% of the time...the other 40% resulting in you only getting halfway to your target, getting flung up in the air, or just not moving at all. The percentage of a successful shadow stride drops to about 1% when your target is on even slighty different level terrain than you. Now you've essentially stolen phase walk and given it to sorcs, who also have a barrier that heals, a powerful instant heal, a powerful HoT, god bubble with the ability to heal to full health after use, cleanse with a short cooldown, force speed, and group member pull. In huttball, a sorc can phase walk/god bubble in the enemy team endzone, and proceed to pull the ball carrier to them for an instant score, and there's not a damn thing any class can do about that now.

 

Suggestion to the Devs

If you're completely set on taking away Phase Walk from sins/shadows, then cut our cooldown for force speed in half. For comparison, an operative that does 2 Exfiltrates in a row will get them about the same distance as a sin with force speed, and yet the cooldown on Exfiltrate is half the time. Add that to the fact that operatives have a designated root cleanse, a teleport-to-target that actually works, and now a pushback. They're laughably more mobile than sins now.

 

100% this. If you are dead set on taking phase walk away then we need our force speed cooldown cut in half.

 

~ Eudoxia

[Ziddal_the_green]

Eric,

 

I play this game as a sub from the launch. Ever since 2.0 you & the team of devs responsible for class changes are messing with the shadows/sins. I play balance, remember? Now its called Serenity.

 

You took from us Shadow Strike, OK you moved it to infiltration but now you have a shadow without shadow strike... You removed project from us as well... You buried back then our dps leaving us out of ops (seriously all you guys play, if you play the game at all in ops, is all classes but shadows?

 

It took you over a year to realize how ****** the discipline was and it was only in patch 2.8 that you kinda fixed things up with Mind crush for us. But until then we lost our position in ops groups.

 

Ever since Shadows of revan serenity is getting nerfed, patch by patch... I ll ask again, do you even play as a shadow? Ever tried to to dps as a dotter in Styrak HM/NM or Underlurker HM/NM ?

 

You remove utilities from us only to add them to sages like Phase Walk... You continue to nerf our dps. It will be simpler and more fair to us to just say "we ll cancel this class, because we just dont like it"

 

With the loot changes you kill all ops guilds and with the nerfs coming we ll lose our position once again in the ops group...

 

BTW why does a DPS need to guard anyone? Usually WE need to be guarded...I mean come one really? Class Devs, shadow in particular, get paid for what they do? Pick a random member of this post and let him/her rewrite the class for you, he will do a better, much better job....

 

Once again, we feel disappointed...

[Glower]

After giving every class some additional mobility in Knights of the Fallen Empire, we felt that Assassins were left a bit too mobile.

 

Phase Walk: Removed from base class. Now Sorcerer exclusive.

 

Yeah sins are too mobile (operatives are not. yeah... )

No phase walk for sins (sorcs really need it because of... yeah... )

 

Seems legit...

[Pscyon]

I love phase walk. I think it's a great ability. But erm... assassins no longer get it? It was theirs in the first place. And it really fits their whole mobility and "appear out of nowhere" deal. Odd decision.

 

I'll miss Thrash though. It's really satisfying finishing enemies off with that now and then. Oh well.

[Dilemmas]

This feels like the final nail in the coffin for Shadow/Sin in PvP; No new game-changing DCDs or ways to escape, but Phase Walk is being removed? BW thinks we're too mobile? what? So we need to be the squishiest class in the game and have less mobility?

 

Maras are 10x more mobile than Sins, OPs are more mobile than Sins... just a couple examples. What are the class balance team smoking?

 

Bioware should open a dialogue on the Phase Walk change, but they won't; because they've already waited this long to ''tell'' us about the change. It's all basically set in stone already. SURPRISE.

 

I guess playtesting and community input isn't a thing anymore? No, wait - at least they took our ''feedback'' on board about the future of the useless orange PvP weapon vendor next to the fleet terminal that nobody cares about. I figure that's the feedback quota met for the next few years.

[Nightblazer]

This is just a sampling of the changes that are coming with Eternal Throne and are subject to change.

 

Maybe they'll go back and give phase walk back or something else like lowering cool down of force speed.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Nightblazer

[DarthEnrique]

You really need to play a sin and sorcerer you guys have no idea how much you just ****ed a lot of these classes. Phase walk was the thing that saved sins from certain death as there damage out put is out matched by juggs, Maras, etc. even sorcerers can out beat a sin if the sorcerer is built right.

 

Sorcerers and sins need more defense. You get the point? Sin/sorc are the most effed up class in the game because their defense unless it's a sin tank sucks!

 

They need better defense not better damage output they got enough.

 

Also, removal of phase walk? Well, we'll be seeing less sins now... good job...

Edited November 8, 2016 by DarthEnrique

[DarthCognusSion]

First off, I think that the decision to remove Phasewalk from Assassins is a mistake. While I used it in NiM raids on my Sorc often, I don't think that Sorcs really needed it to begin with. Assassins, especially Deception, need Phasewalk for mobility.

 

With that being said, I really want to talk about Sorcs here.

Coming from Knights of the Fallen Empire, we felt the that the Sorcerer was in a really good place and so they aren’t receiving a whole lot of changes this Update. One big change that we made with Fallen Empire was to work on increasing the overall mobility and survivability of the Sorcerer...Unnatural Vigor: Unnatural Preservation increases damage reduction by 15% for 6 seconds. Reduces cooldown of Unnatural Preservation by 5 seconds.

This is the design problem with Sorcs at the moment. They are getting too tanky for PvP which is making them too strong. At the same time, because of how strong they are, their dps is either left alone or nerfed. With 4.0, Sorc dps was in a terrible state for raiding. Sorcerer specs should be able to hold their own in dps with Mercs and Snipers, but that is just not the case. Madness is in an abysmal state right now, and Lightning isn't any different. Part of the problem is that I think the dps spread is too big. If you want Sorcs to be in a healthy state for this game, then their utility needs to be nerfed, but their damage needs to be buffed. For instance, Corrupted Barrier is super strong in PvP, while pretty much useless in PvE. I suggest cutting the healing from 2% to either 1% or .5%. Additionally, put Phasewalk on a longer Cooldown. On the other hand, buff the dps of the classes to make them more competitive. Sorc dps just aren't desired because they are so weak right now that you have to be really good at it to make it work. As far as mobility goes, Sorcs have it really good already. Giving us more mobility just makes us more of a utility pick than an actual dps, and that just doesn't work in NiM because certain dps is required, and it is too good in PvP.

 

Everyone always talks about nerfing Sorcs because they are too strong in PvP. I think that these claims are often exaggerated but not unfounded. If you really want to balance Sorcs properly, then nerf their utility, and buff their damage. Madness should do equal damage to Virulence and Innovative Ordinance. It also needs some rotational help, because the rotation is a mess right now when it comes to Force management. Lightning should do equal damage to Arsenal (I didn't say Marksmanship here because that needs a buff as well). I've played this class in the most difficult content in this game. Please listen when I say that you are going about this the wrong way in order to make this class healthy.

 

As a side note, I think that Sorc healing is in a really good place right now and should be left alone. If the utility is nerfed as I suggest, then they will become less oppressive in PvP. Though judging by the changes to Mercs, they are going to be the oppressive ones now as far as healers, and maybe even dps, are concerned.

[FourPawnBenoni]

Hatred gets hurt the most, at least deception has low slash every 15 seconds. I really just laugh at hatred sins as it is even at 4.0...their 1v1 sucks and unless they are in a AOE heavy map supported by a tank and healer they are real bad.

[heythereqt]

With that being said, I really want to talk about Sorcs here. This is the design problem with Sorcs at the moment. They are getting too tanky for PvP which is making them too strong. At the same time, because of how strong they are, their dps is either left alone or nerfed. With 4.0, Sorc dps was in a terrible state for raiding. Sorcerer specs should be able to hold their own in dps with Mercs and Snipers, but that is just not the case. Madness is in an abysmal state right now, and Lightning isn't any different. Part of the problem is that I think the dps spread is too big. If you want Sorcs to be in a healthy state for this game, then their utility needs to be nerfed, but their damage needs to be buffed. For instance, Corrupted Barrier is super strong in PvP, while pretty much useless in PvE. I suggest cutting the healing from 2% to either 1% or .5%. Additionally, put Phasewalk on a longer Cooldown. On the other hand, buff the dps of the classes to make them more competitive. Sorc dps just aren't desired because they are so weak right now that you have to be really good at it to make it work. As far as mobility goes, Sorcs have it really good already. Giving us more mobility just makes us more of a utility pick than an actual dps, and that just doesn't work in NiM because certain dps is required, and it is too good in PvP.

 

Everyone always talks about nerfing Sorcs because they are too strong in PvP. I think that these claims are often exaggerated but not unfounded. If you really want to balance Sorcs properly, then nerf their utility, and buff their damage. Madness should do equal damage to Virulence and Innovative Ordinance. It also needs some rotational help, because the rotation is a mess right now when it comes to Force management. Lightning should do equal damage to Arsenal (I didn't say Marksmanship here because that needs a buff as well). I've played this class in the most difficult content in this game. Please listen when I say that you are going about this the wrong way in order to make this class healthy.

 

As a side note, I think that Sorc healing is in a really good place right now and should be left alone. If the utility is nerfed as I suggest, then they will become less oppressive in PvP. Though judging by the changes to Mercs, they are going to be the oppressive ones now as far as healers, and maybe even dps, are concerned.

 

Completely agree with everything you said on Sorcs here.

 

They aren't ridiculously overpowered in PvP because of their DPS. They're ridiculously overpowered because they can hold a node entirely by themselves against 3 people, while spamming /lol and space bar to troll the other team while they do it. Then when the going gets tough, they can god bubble or phase walk, heal to full, and continue to do the game thing.

 

That's the complete opposite of what sorcs should be: a glass cannon. Buff their dps, nerf their utilities and tankiness.

[AdjeYo]

No step on Assassin Phasewalk, Bioware.

[junkyardjeff]

you are going to take phase walk from sin/shadow the only ability they got in 2.0 and after you gave it to sage/sorc a while back i feel this is stupid and needs to be reversed what are you thinking why not take roll from op/scoundrel they have more mobility than any class imo Edited November 8, 2016 by junkyardjeff
just an update