Perspective on the gearing changes - from someone new to Ops...

[Myhkel]

Have to say, I am excited for the 5.0 gearing changes. As someone who is fairly new to running Ops on a fairly regular basis, these changes couldn't be better. (I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I could type that "water is wet" and there would be 15 responses on why I'm wrong. Also, I know I could have put this in one of the many other threads on the subject but it would most likely be buried under the other comments)

 

First, I've read post after post of people angry over the crates stating RNG sucks and they may not get what they need from the crates. This really isn't too far from how it is now. Before you call me crazy, I'll explain. Imagine if you have your set bonus but you need relics and the main hand. As it stands now, you go into the Op, fight the boss, the click need in the loot window. Basically, you're using a randomly generated number to determine if you get the main hand or not. Only difference, if anyone else in the OP "needs" on it, you might not get it. You could spend hours banging your head against a wall in "wipe after wipe" trying to complete an operation and walk away with nothing. I know because it has happened to me time after time. I once ran 3 OPs in a row and got NO set pieces of any kind. RNG is already a big part of the gearing equation. Only difference is, you may not get anything at all with the current model. In the new model, I will at least get something for my trouble.

 

Second, the new model allows me to gear toons I may not necessarily be good enough to run in a story-mode operation, let alone a hard mode. I love playing my gunnery commando but my DPS is lacking. No matter how hard I try, I just can't seem to do enough DPS. This has caused me to be kicked from OPs groups. So, no OPs group, no 216 gear, let alone 220 or 224. The new model will allow me to play that toon in other modes I enjoy yet still get the gear I am lacking and, who knows? Maybe with that better gear i MAY be able to hit better DPS numbers and run an OP with him instead of my tank!

 

Third, as a crafter, I will be able to get a steady flow of gear to attempt to RE. I've always felt bad "needing" on something I didn't actually plan on using. I felt like I was stealing from other players. Now, if I get something I can't use, I can RE and try to learn a schematic for implants or relics without having to worry of taking gear from a guildmate or having to run an OP over and over again hoping the relic I want to RE drops AND no one else needs on it!! Same with mainhand barrels, etc....

 

Fourth, I can gear up alts without worry. If I get something I can't use on my Guardian, I can simply pull out the mods/set pieces and give them to my Jugg. I can finally work towards multiple sets of gear without forcing guildies to re-run ops or, again, having to loot something someone else may need. I know it is simple to put mods in Legacy gear and move it around, but it would be far more convenient to have the toons geared separately so I don't have to worry about it. I can just log on and play as needed. No more OPs groups having to wait while gear is switched over!

 

Fifth, it feels like I will be rewarded for playing the game as I usually do. For example, I love to run heroics for the cash. Guildies and I group up and blast through planet after planet of heroics on a fairly regular basis. With the addition of Galactic Command, I will be working towards command crates at the same time allowing me to gear my toons faster. It's something I'm doing anyway and the CXP is definitely going to feel like a bonus reward to me!

 

Sixth, gearing on my time and my way. I suffer from health issues which can make it necessary to AFK very suddenly. If I get a flare up in an OP and I'm not with a group of understanding OPS members, I can, and have, been booted from the group. Booted from the group means a lockout and having to try and find another OPs run, let alone one that wants to deal with a lockout. With the new gearing changes, I'm far less concerned about my flare ups. If I happen to get booted from an OPs, I can STILL get CXP from other game modes so I can ALWAYS work towards my next piece of gear.

 

I could go on, but I think you get my point. This new change is actually pretty awesome to me. I finally have a guaranteed shot at the gear I'm looking for without having to worry about PUGs "needing" on everything or feel like I'm stealing loot for an alt if I roll on something I don't plan on using for the toon I'm on. Just my 2 cents worth, anyway.

[joshuactsmith]

Thank you, thank you so much, im glad to see someone have a positive attitude to this and not always be so negative about changes.

 

i also love this new idea of gearing up!

[Tsetso]

<snip>

 

Sure for solo players it seems good(at least at first glance). People complaining about it however are mostly pvpers and raiders and for them that change is terrible.

[Darkheyr]

My primary concern with gear (now that it is apparently dependant on Discipline, not AC) is actually that I can't grab Juggernaught Tank gear on my Sorcerer or similar. It's not as bad among DPS characters, or even healers - it'll just be a nuisance if I want to equip that Tank twink I made to occasionally help out my guild. I think they'd be better off just rewarding people with Tokens instead.

 

My other gearing concerns are completely dependant on the exact implementation. The general notion of acquiring gear no matter which part of the game I play, and of PvP/PvE sharing the same gear, actually appeals to me quite a bit.

[AdjeYo]

First, I've read post after post of people angry over the crates stating RNG sucks and they may not get what they need from the crates. This really isn't too far from how it is now. Before you call me crazy, I'll explain. Imagine if you have your set bonus but you need relics and the main hand. As it stands now, you go into the Op, fight the boss, the click need in the loot window. Basically, you're using a randomly generated number to determine if you get the main hand or not. Only difference, if anyone else in the OP "needs" on it, you might not get it. You could spend hours banging your head against a wall in "wipe after wipe" trying to complete an operation and walk away with nothing. I know because it has happened to me time after time. I once ran 3 OPs in a row and got NO set pieces of any kind. RNG is already a big part of the gearing equation. Only difference is, you may not get anything at all with the current model. In the new model, I will at least get something for my trouble.

 

This is just straight up false, every boss will always drop the same token. There is RNG involved in determining what token drops from a boss you do, so you can see exactly what bosses you should do to get your missing piece. This is vastly different from a system where you get a random lock box and you hope you get what you want. Even if your entire group wants the same piece, you still have a significantly higher chance to get it than with the Galactic Command system. This is why we don't want Galactic Command, we don't want more RNG.

 

I don't mind having Galactic Command for say heroics and flashpoints, but just keep the gear drops from operations like they are and add Galactic Command as sort of a side way to get gear.

Edited October 21, 2016 by AdjeYo

[curulz]

I see your point of view from a PUG standpoint, but imagine a raiding guild of 8 players, all fully geared. 1 person, say a DPS leaves for RL reasons. Team now has to replace him/her.

 

In the current system, you can pick up someone who is new to ops, but may not have the best gear. The new member can easily be geared up really quickly so that gear is no longer a factor. Most teams (not pug teams) are willing to give up rolls they don't need on main toons to get a new member geared up. This happens often as people come and go.

 

In the new system, the only way the new person is going to gear up is to grind for it. The team cannot "give" gear to the new person. So new player has agitate and angst because they're behind in gear and could feel pressure to grind to get up to speed. Existing members get frustrated because they can't run content they want because they're down a man w/o a way to speed up the process.

 

Sure, team can help the play run SM, HM FPs, etc to help them, but there is no way to quickly make up the gear gap. So while this new model can be good for some, it could be extremely frustrating for organized raid teams. IMO, it puts raid teams (if not members) at a disadvantage and will hurt recruiting as most teams will opt to recruit people already geared, which will grow more and more difficult as the experienced/geared raiders leave due to frustration. My concern isn't necessarily how long will it take ME to get gear, but how long will it take the TEAM to get gear.

[micmitja]

If u want some gear from ops find some guild they can gear u fast or proper pug. Sm doesn't count in this expansion rarely anyone was doing Sm, way to gear was grinding EV/KP u could be naked there with fresh lvl 60 token and by the time u finish u would be 65 with few pieces of random 220 gear and at least 1 token if not token u got mats. I haven't done 1 sm run in 4.0 straight to hm ev/kp was the way this why everyone love so much those 2. and they were pugging it at least 5x per day on fleet and u always got something. But if u r doing sm pug noob run and get nothing well thats your fault. And on other hand not to worry in 5.0 u wont be able to do much else since proper raiding guild are leaving this game since lack of content in past 2y. So gl with that Edited October 21, 2016 by micmitja

[Tanitha]

Have to say, I am excited for the 5.0 gearing changes. As someone who is fairly new to running Ops on a fairly regular basis, these changes couldn't be better. (I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I could type that "water is wet" and there would be 15 responses on why I'm wrong. Also, I know I could have put this in one of the many other threads on the subject but it would most likely be buried under the other comments)

 

First, I've read post after post of people angry over the crates stating RNG sucks and they may not get what they need from the crates. This really isn't too far from how it is now. Before you call me crazy, I'll explain. Imagine if you have your set bonus but you need relics and the main hand. As it stands now, you go into the Op, fight the boss, the click need in the loot window. Basically, you're using a randomly generated number to determine if you get the main hand or not. Only difference, if anyone else in the OP "needs" on it, you might not get it. You could spend hours banging your head against a wall in "wipe after wipe" trying to complete an operation and walk away with nothing. I know because it has happened to me time after time. I once ran 3 OPs in a row and got NO set pieces of any kind. RNG is already a big part of the gearing equation. Only difference is, you may not get anything at all with the current model. In the new model, I will at least get something for my trouble.

 

You are doing it with pugs, I guess. If you do it in a guild, with your mates, in one week 8 people can be geared, at least in full 216 with all the ops you can play. And talk to me whn you get 15 belts in a row. And, the set bonus is on the armoring, which is unclear if it will be moddable or not. me and my friends wehn 4.0 hit were doing 2-4 ops a day. Guess what? We had at least one toon geared in about 1 week to 10 days. Guild runs tend to rotate people and who gets what, so everyone is geared at the same time.

 

Second, the new model allows me to gear toons I may not necessarily be good enough to run in a story-mode operation, let alone a hard mode. I love playing my gunnery commando but my DPS is lacking. No matter how hard I try, I just can't seem to do enough DPS. This has caused me to be kicked from OPs groups. So, no OPs group, no 216 gear, let alone 220 or 224. The new model will allow me to play that toon in other modes I enjoy yet still get the gear I am lacking and, who knows? Maybe with that better gear i MAY be able to hit better DPS numbers and run an OP with him instead of my tank!

 

As a raider, who raids with a few toons, I have about 10-15 tokens in various alts to gear another toon, from 216 to 224. In fact, I have minbmaxed gear from those tokens. I have an almost full set for my operative dps, which I don't play much, and for my assassin, which again I don't play much. I had my PT geared in 220s with all leftover tokens I had from guild runs, that she was in almost full set bonus 220 gear when I hit 65.

 

With the new system, it means I have to grind gear on each and every alt, instead of using 2-3 alts to get my gear on everyone else. I have almost all classes. And if the armoring is not legacyable, it will be even worse because my maras and sentinels, can't exchange gear, they have to grind. My guinslingers and snipers, can't exchange gear they have to grind. My PTs and Vanguard can't exchange gear, the armoring is not moddable. I have a full 220 set ready for my new PT and my new Vanguard, from my first PT.

 

Third, as a crafter, I will be able to get a steady flow of gear to attempt to RE. I've always felt bad "needing" on something I didn't actually plan on using. I felt like I was stealing from other players. Now, if I get something I can't use, I can RE and try to learn a schematic for implants or relics without having to worry of taking gear from a guildmate or having to run an OP over and over again hoping the relic I want to RE drops AND no one else needs on it!! Same with mainhand barrels, etc....

 

People have done without much trouble in guild runs. I got the 220 relics to RE from guild runs. I just said, since we are doing EV HM for prio and if noone needs the relic, I want to RE it". Bam done. And with relics we did the following: just get a team of 8 good players and 8 man 16m council. It's doable, done it a lot of times, and we got our relics. Even for RE. Within a guild you can do it. But with the new system, you have to pray that the gods of RNG droip the relic, or drop the schematic.

 

Fourth, I can gear up alts without worry. If I get something I can't use on my Guardian, I can simply pull out the mods/set pieces and give them to my Jugg. I can finally work towards multiple sets of gear without forcing guildies to re-run ops or, again, having to loot something someone else may need. I know it is simple to put mods in Legacy gear and move it around, but it would be far more convenient to have the toons geared separately so I don't have to worry about it. I can just log on and play as needed. No more OPs groups having to wait while gear is switched over!

 

Yes, mods. But what about armorings? That's the gist of the question. I have so much leftover gear from runs now, that I can outfit at least one more alt with its own gear, and minmax it. You could pull the mod from any moddable gear and put it anywhere, anyways. You know running ops with my guild, on almost a daily basis, at one point I had something like 3-4 220 belt tokens. And as many bracers and stuff. So yeah, pulled the mods out when I needed them for another alt. Easy.

 

Fifth, it feels like I will be rewarded for playing the game as I usually do. For example, I love to run heroics for the cash. Guildies and I group up and blast through planet after planet of heroics on a fairly regular basis. With the addition of Galactic Command, I will be working towards command crates at the same time allowing me to gear my toons faster. It's something I'm doing anyway and the CXP is definitely going to feel like a bonus reward to me!

 

Yay heroics! Run around doing the EASIEST content, and just pray to the gods of RNG to give you that 6th set bonus you need. You know you can get to the last tier and never have gotten not even from the first tier, the 6th piece for your set bonus? It's bound to happen to someone. Opening 200+ crates and never being able to complete the set bonus. Just look at the RNG for Alliance crates.

 

Sixth, gearing on my time and my way. I suffer from health issues which can make it necessary to AFK very suddenly. If I get a flare up in an OP and I'm not with a group of understanding OPS members, I can, and have, been booted from the group. Booted from the group means a lockout and having to try and find another OPs run, let alone one that wants to deal with a lockout. With the new gearing changes, I'm far less concerned about my flare ups. If I happen to get booted from an OPs, I can STILL get CXP from other game modes so I can ALWAYS work towards my next piece of gear.

 

I can understand this. But there was no need to give gear just from crates. The current system was fine, and they could just add crates. So me for example, i can get geared in 1 week with ops, and the solo/casual player on their own pace. Now I will have to pray to the gods of RNG that they give me all the set and not having to deal with 15 bracers in a row, or many duplicate items. What this does is introducing a grindfest, and it's going to blow back HARD.

 

I could go on, but I think you get my point. This new change is actually pretty awesome to me. I finally have a guaranteed shot at the gear I'm looking for without having to worry about PUGs "needing" on everything or feel like I'm stealing loot for an alt if I roll on something I don't plan on using for the toon I'm on. Just my 2 cents worth, anyway.

 

Anything to do with RNG is bad. Look at the Alliance crates, and the CM packs. How many people actually got a Defiant Vented Lightsaber? Now imagine trying to get the last armor piece, a head let's say. You know how hard it will be to find that last piece? It will be UTTERLY frustrating, instead of saying: hey peeps let's do TfB since I would like the head. Who needs what else form ops? Oh you want the head too? Okay then we all have geared alts, we'll do 2 TfB OP IX HM runs and get us 2 heads, one for me one for the guildie". NO, now you have to pray the RNG is good with you and with your guildie and give s you the head.

 

Plus it takes all the fun out of rolling for stuff in an ops and having all that fun with the numbers. I mean my friend and ops leader in the guild, once really really "hated" me (just in ops) because I rolled 3 100s in a row (one for token and 2 for other stuff that drop like decos). It was so much fun joking about those rolls for a few days afterwards.

[StarkHelsing]

Snippers

 

I'm actually in agreement with this and though others will hate me for doing so, I'm not seeing much of an issue here. I'm looking forward to this new change.

 

Heck if anything I can imagine it bringing more people into raiding/pvping due to them being able to get a hold of the gear in a way that's much more pleasing to them. Someone gets their gear/points from raiding, good for them (you'll get it faster) - another gets theirs from spamming heroics and missions - yet again, good for them; it'll take longer time but you'll be rewarded. You do you, friend, you do you.

 

Of course there's two sides to every coin. I can see why the raiders - at least - are irritated. They've been getting the shaft for a long time now. Someone throw these guys some new OPs.

 

Heh, maybe i've been playing too much ESO lately. Shrug.

 

Incoming toxic

Edited October 21, 2016 by StarkHelsing

[KnightOfTython]

First, I've read post after post of people angry over the crates stating RNG sucks and they may not get what they need from the crates.

 

In general that's not really a problem since they at least have changed the crate gear from advanced class to discipline now. That means a tank gets tank gear and yes there is a trade off because you have no influence on the slot.

 

The problem here are set armorings and non armor slots like relic etc..

So in worst case you end up with a storage full of belts for example.

 

Fourth, I can gear up alts without worry.

 

Well that's only the half truth because if you are a tank it makes no sense to equip your DDs and healers with Defensive mods. Again, you have no influence since crate drops are discipline dependent and might a lot of waste similar to the previous token system.

Edited October 21, 2016 by KnightOfTython

[Wayshuba]

...snip... Look at the Alliance crates, ...snip...

 

This is an EXCELLENT point for what is coming. There was a certain armor set I wanted from the Alliance Crates. Finally got to where I needed only the legs and eventually got them. Total crates needed to get the full set of armor - over 600 - yes that is hundred with a six in front of it!

 

This is what you all have to look forward to with RNG for end gear armor and why it will absolutely destroy raiding and high level PvP. Raiders will not have the gear they need for more difficult content (in fact, now take that RNG and figure it across eight players for odds of having full set gear needed). For high level PvP, it is moving from a skill based challenge (which it should be and why it had been fixed over the years) to a mish-mash of gear challenge (which created a lot of problems in the 1.0 era).

 

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why BW wants to go back to systems that didn't work in the past and that they have fixed over the years. They are literally about to wipe out years of improvement because they all have too much Cartel Crates on the mind.

[StarkHelsing]

In general that's not really a problem since they at least have changed the crate gear from advanced class to discipline now. That means a tank gets tank gear and yes there is a trade off because you cannot influence the slots.

 

 

 

Well that's only the half truth because if you are a tank it makes no sense to equip your DDs and healers with Defensive mods. Again, you have no influence since crate drops are discipline dependent and might a lot of waste similar to the previous token system.

 

From what I've seen apparently the drops from the boxes depends on the 'spec' you're in at the moment of opening? So say you were farming the crates as a dps, and then switched to tank to open them... it'll give tank gear? I also read that if you get a duplicate, you can just go 'ew' and disintegrate it to get the next piece even faster.

 

• Yup, the drops will be random. The item type is determined by your Advanced Class and the item rating is determined by your Command Rank (higher rank = higher item rating). Keep in mind that you can always earn more Crates and that you can disintegrate any duplicate or unwanted items into CXP to get your next Crate faster.
  
• Yes. All end-game gear (level 70+) can be earned by doing almost any activity. However, someone doing Nightmare (Master) level Operations, as an example, will get there substantially faster than someone doing easy/solo content.
  

 

With this post there, I'm simply just... I don't get it? While you people who are doing OPs are still getting their items, the RNG is there and it doesn't seem to be such a huge kick in the nuts that people are making it out to be. This is without even knowing the loot tables and the ratio drops. It also seems you'll be earning these points at an extremely fast pace rate if you're doing OPs instead of the average joe who decides he wants to do heroics.

 

I mean, I get it, people don't like RNG. But... shouldn't we get more information before we tear the place down?

Edited October 21, 2016 by StarkHelsing

[Soljin]

This is an EXCELLENT point for what is coming. There was a certain armor set I wanted from the Alliance Crates. Finally got to where I needed only the legs and eventually got them. Total crates needed to get the full set of armor - over 600 - yes that is hundred with a six in front of it!

 

This is what you all have to look forward to with RNG for end gear armor and why it will absolutely destroy raiding and high level PvP. Raiders will not have the gear they need for more difficult content (in fact, now take that RNG and figure it across eight players for odds of having full set gear needed). For high level PvP, it is moving from a skill based challenge (which it should be and why it had been fixed over the years) to a mish-mash of gear challenge (which created a lot of problems in the 1.0 era).

 

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why BW wants to go back to systems that didn't work in the past and that they have fixed over the years. They are literally about to wipe out years of improvement because they all have too much Cartel Crates on the mind.

 

They are bringing loot incentive back to the game which is good....almost anything you do will count towards your next crate...this concept is amazing.

 

RNG is not a good thing but they have made a change already and added some pads to lessen the RNG frustration...is it perfect? Nope! Not with RNG but this is not the same system used in the past.

 

My guess is they feel they can modify RNG to keep the system interesting and fun without a high degree of frustration. Granted some people wont get what they want out of the first crate and blast off like a rocket but that's a given.

 

I'm trying to keep giving feedback while staying positive. Bioware are clearly open to modifying the system since they have done once already at our request.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Soljin

[Ligurio]

It also seems you'll be earning these points at an extremely fast pace rate if you're doing OPs instead of the average joe who decides he wants to do heroics.

From what they said, no.

But I don't care any more. If you're happy, I'm happy for you.

I don't want to grind heroics 6 hours a day to win the right to gamble to see if I can hope to have a stuff good enough to try what I like.

EA/BW made their choice, they chose to give solo players the game they wanted, that's fine for me. They also chose to try to force me to play the same way, so I just have to make my choice. That's sadly easier than I thought.

[Wayshuba]

With this post there, I'm simply just... I don't get it? While you people who are doing OPs are still getting their items, the RNG is there and it doesn't seem to be such a huge kick in the nuts that people are making it out to be. This is without even knowing the loot tables and the ratio drops. It also seems you'll be earning these points at an extremely fast pace rate if you're doing OPs instead of the average joe who decides he wants to do heroics.

 

As has been mentioned in numerous other posts, even if the RNG gods smile upon you (and this is BW we are talking about where the RNG gods NEVER smile upon you) and you get a full gear set in 14 crates (about as likely as four new classes coming in the expansion) it will, according to the live stream, take you 14 hours to do that.

 

When gearing alt members or new members to catch up to those already properly geared, you can do the same in roughly 2-4 hours of play (around 3 hours average). So, assuming the RNG gods work for you (which is a really bad assumption because they don't anywhere else in this game with crates), you are still talking about 4-5 times the amount of time to get the same gear. Assuming the RNG gods act like they do today, that time is probably more like ten times the amount of time.

 

Look, this has nothing to do with improving the game in any way. What is in the game works fine and doesn't need to be changed. What this is about, plain and simple, is BW thinking 1.) It will increase those that subscribe because it is only available to subscribers and 2.) They will subscribe longer because of the tedious grind. What they are not even considering is how many people currently subscribe because they like the way it is and may leave because of the over zealousness to attract new subscribers. Honestly, I personally left during the 1.x era with this being one of the points of contention for me. I came back a little over a year ago because they had fixed it, now they are going to go back to something that caused me to leave before. Probably why I am being a bit vocal about this.

 

As an aside, I was in another MMO that took this same approach (increasing the end game grind to keep players longer). That game was doing a reported $28-$32 mil a quarter before. Now they are down to $19 mil a quarter. Being that I lived through this in another MMO and was here in v1.0 when these same issues were contentious then - it is not hard to see what the real effect of this is going to be.

 

Here is another point - with all the end game gear locked behind a subscriber paywall, F2P and Preferred players are not going to even know that gear exists. There is no vendor for them to go to and see what gear they could obtain to wet their appetite and make them want to subscribe to get it. Instead, it will be as if the gear doesn't exist at all - so nothing to draw them to wanting to subscribe in the first place.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Wayshuba

[Tsetso]

As has been mentioned in numerous other posts, even if the RNG gods smile upon you (and this is BW we are talking about where the RNG gods NEVER smile upon you) and you get a full gear set in 14 crates (about as likely as four new classes coming in the expansion) it will, according to the live stream, take you 14 hours to do that.

 

When gearing alt members or new members to catch up to those already properly geared, you can do the same in roughly 2-4 hours of play (around 3 hours average). So, assuming the RNG gods work for you (which is a really bad assumption because they don't anywhere else in this game with crates), you are still talking about 4-5 times the amount of time to get the same gear. Assuming the RNG gods act like they do today, that time is probably more like ten times the amount of time.

 

Look, this has nothing to do with improving the game in any way. What is in the game works fine and doesn't need to be changed. What this is about, plain and simple, is BW thinking 1.) It will increase those that subscribe because it is only available to subscribers and 2.) They will subscribe longer because of the tedious grind. What they are not even considering is how many people currently subscribe because they like the way it is and my leave because of the over zealousness to attract new subscribers.

 

As an aside, I was in another MMO that took this same approach (increasing the end game grind to keep players longer). That game was doing a reported $28-$32 mil a quarter before. Now they are down to $19 mil a quarter. Being that I lived through this in another MMO and was here in v1.0 when these same issues were contentious then - it is not hard to see what the real effect of this is going to be.

 

Here is another point - with all the end game gear locked behind a subscriber paywall, F2P and Preferred players are not going to even know that gear exists. There is no vendor for them to go to and see what gear they could obtain to wet their appetite and make them want to subscribe to get it. Instead, it will be as if the gear doesn't exist at all - so nothing to draw them to wanting to subscribe in the first place.

 

It's not 14 hours. Gear dropping from the first crates will be unusable in nim ops. It'll only start dropping at ~70 rank so it's 70 hours plus however more you need for the gear.

[KnightOfTython]

From what I've seen apparently the drops from the boxes depends on the 'spec' you're in at the moment of opening? So say you were farming the crates as a dps, and then switched to tank to open them... it'll give tank gear?

 

Well yes but this requires that your main has already geared up and because of the rng this is barely the case.

As well your alts will only get the gear matching their Command Level so why would you waste high level chances for your main by giving crates to your alts?

 

Keep in mind that you need tons of CXP if you a high command Level.

It's common sense that you would use your chance on your main instead passing it to your alts.

Edited October 21, 2016 by KnightOfTython

[Wayshuba]

It's not 14 hours. Gear dropping from the first crates will be unusable in nim ops. It'll only start dropping at ~70 rank so it's 70 hours plus however more you need for the gear.

 

Yes, you are correct. I was just using the initial gear for doing HM Ops as an example and also to illustrate how what they are really doing is massively increasing the grind (and removing any semblance of certainty to it) with what they are doing.

[Wayshuba]

They are bringing loot incentive back to the game which is good....almost anything you do will count towards your next crate...this concept is amazing.

 

RNG is not a good thing but they have made a change already and added some pads to lessen the RNG frustration...is it perfect? Nope! Not with RNG but this is not the same system used in the past.

 

My guess is they feel they can modify RNG to keep the system interesting and fun without a high degree of frustration. Granted some people wont get what they want out of the first crate and blast off like a rocket but that's a given.

 

I'm trying to keep giving feedback while staying positive. Bioware are clearly open to modifying the system since they have done once already at our request.

 

Here is another viewpoint - what they have works, and works well today. Why change it?

[nGAGE]

I applaud your positive attitude and I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately, the system only works well for "mainly" solo-players. It's a nightmare for progression teams.

[Tsetso]

Yes, you are correct. I was just using the initial gear for doing HM Ops as an example and also to illustrate how what they are really doing is massively increasing the grind (and removing any semblance of certainty to it) with what they are doing.

 

Assuming they use the same number of tiers as now on live, the first tier would drop something equivalent to 208. I really doubt anyone will down Styrak HM with current 208. We struggled with mostly 220 and had to 1 tank him. So If we talk HM ops i'd say 30 hours for the next tier. That's all assumptions of course - i might be quite wrong.

[TUXs]

Thank you, thank you so much, im glad to see someone have a positive attitude to this and not always be so negative about changes.

 

i also love this new idea of gearing up!

What do you like about it exactly?

 

That it'll be easier for most players to get top end gear? I'm happy about that too. Where I take issue with it is in the RNG aspect of it. RNG has ZERO place in a gear centric game. Gear can make or break your ability to PvP or do high end PvE...I find the RNG aspect 100% unacceptable, as do many others. I WANT you to be in the best gear for PvP or PvE, because then, maybe you'll be more likely to participate in things that take advantage of that better gear...which are the things "I" like to do...I want YOU to enjoy them too. I am thrilled you'll get better gear...but I absolutely abhor RNG for critical gearing for those who NEED it.

[IanArgent]

More or less my perspective.

 

But the people who have gotten used to a year of "gear out a raid team in a week, guaranteed" or the ones who are used to "play on my main, gear out my alts without having to play them at all" are getting those mechanics taken away from them. To a certain extent, I see their points, but I have to wonder (especially for the first case) if that was really a desired effect of some of the mechanics on the part of the devs.

 

However, this also affects the current "final raiders," the ones who are already geared out and are working on the very hardest content in the game, not for gear but for the joy of hard content, or bragging rights, or cosmetics. Those guys are being sent back to the beginning of the gear grind, and whereas before they'd have a predictable interval to gear back to their current level of gear vs difficulty, and prior to 4.0, would have also had new Ops content to work through to gear back up again. These players almost all overlap with the ones who are used to the "quick gearing" introduced by 4.0 as well; and for them, it's not likely that Uprisings or the Galactic DvL spawning attackers will function as "new content" for very long, if at all.

 

It's my opinion that those folks are a vocal subset of the player base, and that the plurality of players are the "hardcore casuals" like me and the OP, who do a little of this, a little of that, and put in about 5-10 hours a week in the game, doing story between queuing for group activities via GF, or doing group content ad-hoc with other guild members. The only evidence I have for this is that kind of play style is the one that the changes since 4.0 seemed to be aimed at. And, in fact, there are days I think the studio is actively trying to drive off some of the hardcore player base. Or at least the ones playing out at the very edge of the design envelope. Other times I think it's just a side effect of them shrinking the design envelope to a manageable size, to match their capabilities and limitations. In either case, I'm reminded of a saying I heard about design envelopes. "Pushing the design envelope is fun, but that puts you out in the upper right hand corner of the envelope. And that's where the stamp gets cancelled."

 

As more and more information about the 5.0 design changes comes out, there's less "design space" for them to balance the competing goals of designing for vets and for new players.

 

For myself, I would have rather that they didn't use RNG gear acquisition and that they had separated gear acquisition from gaining levels in galactic command; so there was a longer period to gear up than there is now at the highest end, but that period was known and predictable. I don't think the RNG mitigation mechanics we've seen are sufficient, because I don't see enough changes from the current model of gearing. If they come out and say "crafted endgame gear will be a LOT more available, because the mats will be dropping at a much increased rate over the one today," that will help. If they follow that up with "only moddable gear will be dropped via command crates, you have to go to crafters to get ears/implants/relics, and because the mats are more available, you won't have to pay (tens of) millions of credits per," that would help. If they say "command level will not restrict equipping gear, only limit what you get via drops," that would help. And, of course, if disintegrating the contents of a crate get you a new one, or even most of the way to a new one, that would also help. These are all changes that would fit into the framework of the Command Crate mechanism as we know right now, that would reduce the effect of RNG.

[Quraswren]

What do you like about it exactly?

 

That it'll be easier for most players to get top end gear? I'm happy about that too. Where I take issue with it is in the RNG aspect of it. RNG has ZERO place in a gear centric game. Gear can make or break your ability to PvP or do high end PvE...I find the RNG aspect 100% unacceptable, as do many others. I WANT you to be in the best gear for PvP or PvE, because then, maybe you'll be more likely to participate in things that take advantage of that better gear...which are the things "I" like to do...I want YOU to enjoy them too. I am thrilled you'll get better gear...but I absolutely abhor RNG for critical gearing for those who NEED it.

 

Agreed.

 

There is nothing wrong with everyone getting end game gear as it might get them to into content they didn't previously take on.

 

But there was nothing wrong with how gear was done previously where gamers got to choose what was needed when content was beaten. That same "choice" should have been preserved in the new GC and still allowed all gamers to get all gear.

 

What doesn't in any way need to happen is have gearing a random slot machine pull and hope for the best after you cleared content. That kind of system is not in place to benefit any gamer. EVER. A gear based game and bw makes sure to screw that up through random gearing loot crate.

[IanArgent]

Here is another viewpoint - what they have works, and works well today. Why change it?

 

I applaud your positive attitude and I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately, the system only works well for "mainly" solo-players. It's a nightmare for progression teams.

 

The question is, who is more "important" to the developers? Edge of the envelope players (Rav/ToS-level progression teams, top Ranked PvP players), or hardcore casuals (folks who pug through GF, do solo FPs, and run around like acephalous poultry in Unranked PvP).

 

The design decisions since I've been paying attention to the metagame (since the first announcements about KotFE), have almost all been to the benefit of the hardcore casual crowd. Which is great for me, as long as their decision is the right one. If it's not, this will end up being the second game that I love to play that will auger in. Which would give me more time to work through my Steam library at least, and I'll have to go back to arguing politics on Facebook instead of game design decisions here. (And that would be ugly. Folks, don't argue politics on Facebook. It never ends well).