OMG Something nearly everyone agrees with

[Icykill_]

I never thought I'd see the day when nearly the whole swtor population agreed on the same thing. If someone had asked me if this was possible, I would have told them they'd have better luck buying a lotto ticket.

 

It seem just about every thing I've read about the live stream and the posts by Bioware has caused the community to rage at them. Nobody seems to happy with any of these changes. Sure there might be one or two out there, but the overwhelming majority think the whole thing is a terrible idea.

 

Do they even listen to what the players want and demand... are any of the decision or ideas people even gamers... do they not even look back at their own game and see what failed in the past, only to implement it again 😕

Its like they all sit around a table and brain fart at each other and there is no faeces 💩 filter before it hits the board of ideas. There is so much extrament on that board that they can't recognise what is fibre and what is cancer.

 

Maybe they should use focus groups from the player base and not their own office or their families and friends.

 

There maybe one or two ok things coming in 5.0, but they are completely over shadowed by the amount extrament covering it.

 

After seeing such a big community reaction and rejection to this, I would put the expansion on hold, I'd take it out the back and use a firehouse on it to clean it up.. give it some Prozac, put it in some clean clothes and ask some friends to come over and see if it is presentable to go out in public

[Andryah]

People said essentially the same thing about level sync, yet after actually playing it.. even many of the very negative players about level sync actually turned around on that.

 

Maybe.. wait and play it before condemning it on the basis of limited information released so far.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Andryah

[Jadescythe]

People said essentially the same thing about level sync, yet after actually playing it.. even many of the very negative players about level sync actually turned around on that.

 

Maybe.. wait and play it before condemning it on the basis of limited information released so far.

 

^^^ The exception that proves the rule in every SWTOR discussion. There is literally no additional information that BW can provide to me that would make me accept RNG based loot boxes for statted gear.

[Diefenbaker]

People said essentially the same thing about level sync, yet after actually playing it.. even many of the very negative players about level sync actually turned around on that.

 

Maybe.. wait and play it before condemning it on the basis of limited information released so far.

Because level sync didn't really change much. All it did was that, instead of one-shotting mobs, you now had to hit them 2-3 times before they fell over.

 

It was neither good nor bad, it was kinda pointless. But hey, it was to make old content relevant again, right? Just like what this galactic command is doing. Who needs new content when you can just make the old crap relevant again and use it to get people grind another useless level system?

 

Oyvey!

[BaineOs]

Maybe they should use focus groups from the player base and not their own office or their families and friends.

 

And who do you think would most likely be in those groups? Probably those people who do Ops and Ranked Arena's. Not that I'm disagreeing but I'd hardly trust them to do focus groups.

 

Focus groups can be educational but you always run the risk of missing huge areas of interest to lots of others that those within the focus group aren't bothered about in the slightest.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Because level sync didn't really change much. All it did was that, instead of one-shotting mobs, you now had to hit them 2-3 times before they fell over.

It was neither good nor bad, it was kinda pointless. But hey, it was to make old content relevant again, right? Just like what this galactic command is doing. Who needs new content when you can just make the old crap relevant again and use it to get people grind another useless level system?

Oyvey!

 

I think it was probably just the first step in the new difficulty levels that become available in 5.0

[LordTurin]

People said essentially the same thing about level sync, yet after actually playing it.. even many of the very negative players about level sync actually turned around on that.

 

Maybe.. wait and play it before condemning it on the basis of limited information released so far.

 

False. There was a small subsection of the community on the forums who didn't like the idea, most were actually either happy with the idea (I was) or didn't really care.

 

There has been a limited amount of information, but waiting until it is implemented fully to say we don't like it is a bad idea, because most people will just leave instead of sticking around (and especially given that what people are complaining about is the RNG side of it, and they already said the loot from the boxes will be "random", so I think that is fair game).

 

If they said "we are only going to make operations going forward, there will be no other content ever made. Oh, and we are removing all other content in the game as well, so there is nothing you can do but operations", would you then say "well, I better just wait and see if the operations are good before I complain?" No, you would be the first in line to complain about it, or you would just leave the game. And that is a good thing, if a game that you love like this is going to make what you see as a mistake, you should complain about it before it becomes a reality. It is much easy to change something before it is released, then have to scramble after the fact (not to mention, that by that point a lot of people will have left anyway, and once someone has left it is not easy to get them back).

[Vhaegrant]

It's change. People do not like change. Especially when the details are so slow to emerge and there'll probably be a communication blackout on any of the rage threads.

I can remember when MMOs started to move from RNG boss drops to tokens and the community of veteran raiders were up in arms that it trivialised raid rewards. Their mindset was you had to invest deeply into a raid team and hope it lasted long enough to be lucky on the drop and the loot roll. They'd had to do it that way, why make it almost predictable for others.

 

And here we slide full circle back to the unpredictable loot roll. It's a mechanic that keeps you grinding that bit longer.

The metrics may indicate it's worth losing the remaining end game raiders if it means the newer players joining the game (and not necessarily frequenting the forums) sub for an extra month or two.

 

I've yet to see the figures for how long it will take to get a crate and what the drop chances are for usable gear.

Given my experience with the Allied Crates and trying to zero in on the last elusive pieces it could be a nightmare.

[DarthWoad]

People said essentially the same thing about level sync, yet after actually playing it.. even many of the very negative players about level sync actually turned around on that.

 

Maybe.. wait and play it before condemning it on the basis of limited information released so far.

 

People said the game would never go F2P either.

[azudelphi]

The RNG gear part needs to be refined, but 5.0 as a whole does not seem to be a massive failure.

[Icykill_]

People said essentially the same thing about level sync, yet after actually playing it.. even many of the very negative players about level sync actually turned around on that.

 

Maybe.. wait and play it before condemning it on the basis of limited information released so far.

 

I'm just pointing out that the overwhelming majority of people hate most of what they've said. Sure there is always rage and critics before every change.. usually it's only isolated to one part of the population or part of the game... but this has polarised everyone because it affects most players.. I've never seen it this bad since launch... there is overwhelming condemnation of what they've said.

It's early days, there is more to be released from Bioware before we gain a better picture.. but I hope this sets off some alarm bells at Bioware so that they can defuse any dormant bombs and maybe clear up some of the mine field before moving ahead...

[Vhaegrant]

Because level sync didn't really change much. All it did was that, instead of one-shotting mobs, you now had to hit them 2-3 times before they fell over.

 

It was neither good nor bad, it was kinda pointless. But hey, it was to make old content relevant again, right? Just like what this galactic command is doing. Who needs new content when you can just make the old crap relevant again and use it to get people grind another useless level system?

 

Oyvey!

You really don't get level sync do you

Drop rates are set to character level so going back on a level 65 to a low level planet still sees you get decent drop rewards.

[AlienEyeTX]

And who do you think would most likely be in those groups? Probably those people who do Ops and Ranked Arena's. Not that I'm disagreeing but I'd hardly trust them to do focus groups.

 

Focus groups can be educational but you always run the risk of missing huge areas of interest to lots of others that those within the focus group aren't bothered about in the slightest.

 

That's why you invite a variety of people and run multiple focus groups. It's not a one-time thing. At least, it shouldn't be a one-time thing. But it is obvious that they do not solicit feedback from actual players. This is a huge mistake!

 

In the worst case, I'd rather see them get one thing right that only pleases some people, than to get three things wrong that don't please any of the people.

[Jadescythe]

Because level sync didn't really change much. All it did was that, instead of one-shotting mobs, you now had to hit them 2-3 times before they fell over.

 

It was neither good nor bad, it was kinda pointless. But hey, it was to make old content relevant again, right? Just like what this galactic command is doing. Who needs new content when you can just make the old crap relevant again and use it to get people grind another useless level system?

 

Oyvey!

 

This really was the key with level sync. I wasn't a fan of it being implemented, but it essentially did absolutely nothing. Had they actually made level sync give you the same level of power that an actual player of that level would have, then I'd still be very much against it as it makes going to low level zones a huge pain.

[Andryah]

And who do you think would most likely be in those groups? Probably those people who do Ops and Ranked Arena's. Not that I'm disagreeing but I'd hardly trust them to do focus groups.

 

Focus groups can be educational but you always run the risk of missing huge areas of interest to lots of others that those within the focus group aren't bothered about in the slightest.

 

Yeah... they have been using focus groups inside Austin for years not to playtest unreleased content. Which is exactly why in some cases, they have delayed a release on something (remember EC?)

 

Focus groups are only one component in the total synthesis of producing content to pleases many thousands of players with many thousands of personal wants/needs. Nothing magic about them, and in fact I have personally seen focus groups result in bad design decisions in customer facing products and services.

[AlienEyeTX]

I'm just pointing out that the overwhelming majority of people hate most of what they've said. Sure there is always rage and critics before every change.. usually it's only isolated to one part of the population or part of the game... but this has polarised everyone because it affects most players.. I've never seen it this bad since launch... there is overwhelming condemnation of what they've said.

It's early days, there is more to be released from Bioware before we gain a better picture.. but I hope this sets off some alarm bells at Bioware so that they can defuse any dormant bombs and maybe clear up some of the mine field before moving ahead...

 

I think the only thing that came close to this level of hatred is the DvL event. But even that had its small group of supporters. What you can see, looking back, is the trend of fewer and fewer vocal supporters of their decisions. They have GOT to do something to start earning our trust back.

[Vhaegrant]

I'm just pointing out that the overwhelming majority of people hate most of what they've said. Sure there is always rage and critics before every change.. usually it's only isolated to one part of the population or part of the game... but this has polarised everyone because it affects most players.. I've never seen it this bad since launch... there is overwhelming condemnation of what they've said.

It's early days, there is more to be released from Bioware before we gain a better picture.. but I hope this sets off some alarm bells at Bioware so that they can defuse any dormant bombs and maybe clear up some of the mine field before moving ahead...

 

From what I see you've got quite a limited reporting base of end game players that have been clinging onto the game for some time because of the IP rather than any enjoyment from clearing the content. 5.0 is yet another upgrade that caters more to new players than those that have been here from start and done everything.

 

I suspect that the decision is less to do with forum feedback and more with core metrics that show those players that took up the game for 4.0 fail to make the transition to running end game content.

 

I fear the reason for this is far deeper than a lack of understanding of how to enter the different end game content and more a reflection of how big the skill gap is between that needed to play the basic game and that needed to be competent at end game.

[Degan]

I never thought I'd see the day when nearly the whole swtor population agreed on the same thing. If someone had asked me if this was possible, I would have told them they'd have better luck buying a lotto ticket...

 

The forums after the upcoming class changes live stream on Nov 3rd should make for some great popcorn moments!

[Andryah]

I'm just pointing out that the overwhelming majority of people hate most of what they've said. Sure there is always rage and critics before every change.. usually it's only isolated to one part of the population or part of the game... but this has polarised everyone because it affects most players.. I've never seen it this bad since launch... there is overwhelming condemnation of what they've said.

It's early days, there is more to be released from Bioware before we gain a better picture.. but I hope this sets off some alarm bells at Bioware so that they can defuse any dormant bombs and maybe clear up some of the mine field before moving ahead...

 

I understand completely what you are doing here. And it's always like this leading up to a new expac where fundamental changes are being made to the game feature set and mechanics. The only real difference is there is perhaps more passion surrounding them putting box contents behind RNG.

 

By the way.. the forum is just going to get worse moving forward about 5.0. This is just the first layer of rage taking place. It's too early to unify with pitchforks and rush the castle.

It won't make any difference though.. so my suggestion is to relax and let it play out.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Andryah

[Icykill_]

And who do you think would most likely be in those groups? Probably those people who do Ops and Ranked Arena's. Not that I'm disagreeing but I'd hardly trust them to do focus groups.

 

Focus groups can be educational but you always run the risk of missing huge areas of interest to lots of others that those within the focus group aren't bothered about in the slightest.

 

Better than asking the homeless, non gaming guy sitting on the street corner saying the end of the world is coming.. Id put my trust in the addicted gamer trying to get their next gaming hit... sure they might be a bit flaky due to lack of sun and no real social interaction, but at least you know they are single minded in having an enjoyable game.

[Transcendent]

It's early days, there is more to be released from Bioware before we gain a better picture.. but I hope this sets off some alarm bells at Bioware so that they can defuse any dormant bombs and maybe clear up some of the mine field before moving ahead...

 

If we get early access in just over one months time, do you honestly think they'll go and tweak things now? It is set already.

[Simbr]

If the entire player base unites in rejecting RNG, may be they will listen. I am not criticizing any of the other changes until I experience them, but we already know from this very game how bad RNG is.

[Jadescythe]

From what I see you've got quite a limited reporting base of end game players that have been clinging onto the game for some time because of the IP rather than any enjoyment from clearing the content. 5.0 is yet another upgrade that caters more to new players than those that have been here from start and done everything.

 

I suspect that the decision is less to do with forum feedback and more with core metrics that show those players that took up the game for 4.0 fail to make the transition to running end game content.

 

I fear the reason for this is far deeper than a lack of understanding of how to enter the different end game content and more a reflection of how big the skill gap is between that needed to play the basic game and that needed to be competent at end game.

 

It caters to players with a LOT of time on their hands actually. I reject the thought that this new system helps new players when you have to:

 

1) Get to level 70 to start the grind

2) Play a lot to raise your command rank for boxes

3) Hope you get different stuff or keep playing until you do

4) Play different areas of the game, including end game, to level up faster

 

Today, a new player gets the gear the need from doing the content they plan to play. If they want to raid or do end game PvP, then they just do it to continue getting better gear.

[BaineOs]

Yeah... they have been using focus groups inside Austin for years not to playtest unreleased content. Which is exactly why in some cases, they have delayed a release on something (remember EC?)

 

Focus groups are only one component in the total synthesis of producing content to pleases many thousands of players with many thousands of personal wants/needs. Nothing magic about them, and in fact I have personally seen focus groups result in bad design decisions in customer facing products and services.

 

No I don't remember EC, I'm a pvp'er. To be genuinely honest...I can't work out whether your post suggests you believe the way they do focus groups is working or not.

 

Any focus groups they've been doing to date....well....the past couple of years doesn't say much for them now does it?

[Andryah]

If the entire player base unites in rejecting RNG, may be they will listen. I am not criticizing any of the other changes until I experience them, but we already know from this very game how bad RNG is.

 

1) it will change nothing. 5.0 releases in about 6 weeks, it's already gone "gold" and they are just fine tuning at this point and testing to see if they need to pull anything that is really problematic from the release plan.

 

2) If RNG is really a problem after release, they will make adjustments.. just like they always do.

 

3) RNG is not bad per se.. it just introduces unpredictability into the game. When did unpredictability of drops in an MMO become evil?