How I think they decided on the new gearing system

[ThrakhathSpawn]

RNG is still RNG. Much more recent reference -- Alliance Crates. I wanted to get a certain agent chest piece to put my one and only black/black dye in. I have opened hundreds upon hundreds of crates. I'm drowning in glows, boots, bracers and whatever else there is, but no chest piece. It's been almost a year now. There is no certain path to getting a missing piece of gear and you can do nothing about it.

 

With Alliance it's only cosmetics -- it's not a big deal. But when you can't get on a level field with more lucky PvP players for example -- it becomes game-breaking.

 

Yes, very frustrating, I wish they had done a token system, where you get a token and turn it in at a vendor for what you want.

 

That said, certain items are tied to certain classes, if you did not know that, you could end up opening an infinite amount of crates. There is no guide on the classes, but if you look up the post where they removed the BOL from the free 60 gear, you'll find a reference to the Jedi Knight chest piece was I think a drop from alliance crates opened on bounty hunter.

 

And my post also needs to include an extreme objection to new RNG based rewards. I was not there for the last time, but the game is a lot less fun and engaging if you have no guaranteed path. Its should be a game, not a casino.

Edited October 19, 2016 by ThrakhathSpawn

[TX_Angel]

Most responses to things like the cartel crates and alliance crates is that they hate the RNG, but they put up with it because it has what they want. And that's fine, because it's optional and cosmetic. Actual gear, yeah that's a problem.

 

Further consider that with the pretty stuff from the CM, you have the option to buy and sell it on the GTN, you don't have that here. If all these drops were tradeable/GTNable, then this concern would probably go away.

 

Since they won't be, Houston, we have a Problem...

[cloneofdax]

Except this is nowhere as bad as battlemaster bags. Your explanation of how battlemaster bags makes me question if you even played the game at launch. I'll explain how they actually worked, since galactic command is much better in comparison.

 

In order to get battlemaster armor, you needed to acquire battlemaster commendations. You would need multiple commendations to buy a piece of gear. The only way you could get a battlemaster commendation was from the battlemaster bags and they had a 25% chance of dropping a battlemaster commendation (and a random piece of champion gear). Also, you could only achieve a battlemaster bag once per week due to the reward being tied to the PvP weekly.

 

Why was the battlemaster bag system worse? There was a 75% chance you would get NOTHING for the week. That is why RNG for gear at launch was idiotic. The chance of getting ONE battlemaster comm, which wasn't even enough to buy a piece of battlemaster gear, was horrifically low. I was one of the first players on my server (Shien) to become a battlemaster at launch and it took me MONTHS to get the full set.

 

We aren't grinding for battlemaster comms in 5.0. We are getting a GUARANTEED piece of gear every time we get a galactic command crate. Yes, it's random. However, at least we get SOMETHING. Also, we can disintegrate it and get more experience towards our next galactic command level. This system is VASTLY BETTER than what we had at launch for PvP. You are comparing apples to oranges, as is everybody else who actually never experienced the battlemaster bags at launch.

 

Was not here back then. Nice report and yes for me personally GC does not seem as bad. I was willing to try it out before asking for any change but I think this makes it seem acceptable. Given the fact you are not guaranteed a item from Op's in any case. For now I will give it the thumbs up. Of cause after I have played using it for a while I may change that to a thumbs down. For now all I can say is thank you for this post. Quite eye opening.

 

AS for

"as is everybody else who actually never experienced the battlemaster bags at launch."

 

This part is not correct though, a lot who did are complaining just as some like myself who did not go though battlemaster are still willing to give GC a try first. Other that a very good post

Edited October 19, 2016 by cloneofdax

[Sorkenna]

I think there's a significant difference between having a 75% chance of getting nothing (again, you need multiple commendations just for one piece of gear) versus being guaranteed a piece of gear, whether you need it or not.

 

You assume there will be a piece of gear in every crate and for now, Eric did not said that.

All we know :

- at each lvl of galactic command, we will receive a crate.

- the crate will contain stuff, goodies, ... but everything in each crate? Or will it be a chance to have a piece of gear, a chance to have a goodies ? No confirmation at this time (or I miss it).

- the stuff inside a crate is link to your advance class not to your discipline.

- the stuff lvl inside a crate is link to your lvl in galactic command.

- you can destroy a piece of gear to gain galactic command xp.

 

For now, saying : it's not as bad as the battlemaster system is just an assumption.

[WheresMyWhisky]

I don't think people here get how much of a difference a set piece bonus makes.

 

For Infil Shadow, we don't get the additional 20ish seconds of cooldown on Force Cloak until we have our 6-piece set bonus.

 

That's a MASSIVE DPS difference for us, because force cloak resets force potency which gives us our hardest hitting version of Force Breach, gives us force regen, and resets blackout for force regen.

 

Set bonus is hugely important for tanks too. And crafted gear without a set Bonus, with crappy mod and enhancement stat combinations, does not fill the gap.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Yip it really does make a big difference and people making the suggestion that crafted gear will be almost as good really want to go and look at some of the set bonuses to see how useful they are for PVP and HM / Nim Ops.

 

Not to mention if the new equivalent of dark matters mainly comes from ops then GL getting any crafted gear as nearly everyone I know that raids has cancelled their sub or is letting their game time run out after the KOTET announcements.

Edited October 19, 2016 by WheresMyWhisky

[Quraswren]

This. I can't believe they don't remember the complete fiasco of that PvP system. Pretty much all my MMO friends left the game because of the their frustration with those original PvP crates and never came back. Yet BioWare doesn't remember that they went through this 5 years ago.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

How could they not remember how bad that random gear drop pvp loot bag system was? If I remember it I know they have to.

 

Then again, BW seems to have forgotten the game will not survive on story alone as they all but said when SWTOR went F2P. What did BW do? They went story only again to it's detriment. Making that same mistake again.

 

Now, they are making that same random loot mistake. Again. Their decision of going 4 years or so backwards in design here is astoundingly bad.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

This is another great point. You can make competitive armor via crafting that doesn't have set piece bonuses. That, alone, invalidates the RNG as being a major issue. Most players will probably just craft armor sets and RNG will be a secondary concern.

 

Without set bonus's it's garbage for raiders and PVPers and for people not doing Operations and PVP, just doing heroics, dailies and the solo FPs with two comps all the other people are gonna be grinding for command points, gear is irrelevant, they could do 85 percent of that content naked and still "clear" it.

 

Gear without set bonus's is not competitive. And given that there are only 7 pieces of gear out of 16 that can be a set bonus carrier and you need 6 specific pieces, that alone validates the RNG as a major issue, and serves to demonstrate the utter stupidity of this whole gearing revision for the total trash that it is.

 

Now if this new system doesn't impede upon your style of game play, that's great, more power to you. For casuals it really isn't that big of a deal and for them your argument may hold some water. But for Raiders and PVPERs [ there are still some of us left believe it or not], even if the minority of the player base, our game play is being massively effected by these changes and ruining the past times that we love. Operations that don't drop any loot? Whoever heard of such a thing in this day and age?

 

I don't give a rat's *** how they did it the first few months after launch, anymore than I care that this new gearing system is only slightly less dumb as s***, for the four and half years I have been playing this game, gear has always dropped in Operations and the BIS gear could only be gotten in Operations.

 

That people who don't do Operations could only have 220 gear has never been a problem, somehow they managed to get thru heroics and story [sarcasm], hell, even most raiders still have some gear 220 and could do HM and NiM with it if they knew their classes well enough [with even lower rated gear even].

 

It's like if you're a hunter for sport [which I don't agree with] and than they said okay you can still kill the dear, but you can't taxidermy them or hang their horns over your mantle. Removing direct gear drops from Operations takes a lot of the joy and excitement out of it for raiders, as does making BIS gear available to people who only spam basic attack [so to speak]. You don't have to agree with that sentiment, you can even think it's stupid. everyone's entitled to their opinions, even raiders and PVPers, and to us, it matters a lot.

Edited October 19, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[BigDumbViking]

We aren't grinding for battlemaster comms in 5.0. We are getting a GUARANTEED piece of gear every time we get a galactic command crate. Yes, it's random. However, at least we get SOMETHING. Also, we can disintegrate it and get more experience towards our next galactic command level. This system is VASTLY BETTER than what we had at launch for PvP. You are comparing apples to oranges, as is everybody else who actually never experienced the battlemaster bags at launch.

 

Not true. You may get a piece of gear, but there is not promise that you get a piece of top level gear versus vendor trash.

[DragonDai]

A guaranteed piece of loot is IDENTICAL to nothing if you can't use the loot and it's vendor trash/disintegrate trash. To all the people saying "This isn't as bad as PvP bags, cause you always get something." I say, no, that's just not true. If you get something you don't want, you got nothing. In fact, I'd argue that to a player who just retrieved his 17th belt when all he needs is a chest piece, getting that belt is actually WORSE than getting nothing.

 

So seriously, knock it off. This is effectively as bad, if not worse, than the previous PvP bag system.

[TUXs]

For some reason, there are a few that think BW will simply do better in the RNG loot crates but given the nature of RNG and loot and what BW hopes to get gamers to continue to do for longer lengths of time.

Anyone thinking that simply needs to take a look at the Heroic Armor boxes and Alliance Crates. Both of those are RNG systems in-game, that demonstrate just how poorly RNG gearing works. This good thing is, neither of those and necessary to participate in any activity...but end game gear is.

[DragonDai]

Anyone thinking that simply needs to take a look at the Heroic Armor boxes and Alliance Crates. Both of those are RNG systems in-game, that demonstrate just how poorly RNG gearing works. This good thing is, neither of those and necessary to participate in any activity...but end game gear is.

 

Whether you're comparing the new system, to old school pvp bag or to these new systems, it doesn't matter. There is no way that this change is designed with the best intention of the players or the long term health of the game in mind. It's just bad. There's no other way to put it. Just bad.

[Andryah]

Whether you're comparing the new system, to old school pvp bag or to these new systems, it doesn't matter. There is no way that this change is designed with the best intention of the players or the long term health of the game in mind. It's just bad. There's no other way to put it. Just bad.

 

TUXs is completely wrong by comparing this to Alliance crates.

 

He is completely right in comparing this to Heroic crates.

 

There is a huge difference between them. This is what happens when people do not take time to analyze and just simply jump on RNG out of context. It's like saying .... "I got bit by a bad dog when I was little, so now all dogs are bad and will bite me".

 

Alliance crates DO NOT filter for your class, and they run on a very large loot table of armor shells that all appear to have the same change of a drop.

 

Heroic crates ARE filtered for your class, and level, and they give you a choice of A or B box depending on if you are tank or healer/dps. And the gear drop slot for the boxes are running off of a very small filtered loot table. The absence of an A or B choice (which we do not know the answer to yet) will make no difference in the rate of items dropping, only that a player may want to replace the Mod and Enhancement slots with high end crafted mods to fine tune for their spec (something most people do at end game anyway) .... the armor slot holds the much valued set bonus tags.

 

RNG is NOT the issue here folks.. it's the loot table and if/how it is filtered. If they follow the Heroic box model, I'm fine with it as it means I am getting a piece of armor in each box that is specific for me (not some random Alliance crate shell out of hundreds in the loot table). Each box, assuming it has one piece of gear in it (we don't know if it's one or more yet) drops one of 14 usable items for your character. I rarely had gaps in gear off of heroic boxes while leveling.. so I doubt this will be any worse with the GC boxes.

 

Again.. it's not RNG that is the issue, it's loot table and loot table filtering. RNG is not evil... but some loot tables are and can be (Alliance crates being one example). Bugs in the loot table or filters could also be a problem.. but bugs get reported and fixed.

 

People really need to think before jamming their knees up into their jaws.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Andryah

[TUXs]

TUXs is completely wrong by comparing this to Alliance crates.

 

He is completely right in comparing this to Heroic crates. And there is a huge difference between them.

 

This is what happens when people do not take time to analyze and just simply jump on RNG out of context. It's like saying .... "I got bit by a bad dog when I was little, so now all dogs are bad and will bite me".

 

Alliance crates DO NOT filter for your class, and they run on a very large loot table of armor shells that all appear to have the same change of a drop.

 

Heroic crates ARE filtered for your class, and level, and they give you a choice of A or B box depending on if you are tank or healer/dps. And the gear drop slot for the boxes are running off of a very small filtered loot table.

 

RNG is NOT the issue here folks.. it's the loot table and if/how it is filtered. If they follow the Heroic box model, I'm fine with it as it means I am getting a piece of armor in each box that is specific for me (not some random Alliance crate shell out of hundreds in the loot table). Each box, assuming it has one piece of gear in it (we don't know if it's one or more yet) drops one of 14 usable items for your character. I rarely had gaps in gear off of heroic boxes while leveling.. so I doubt this will be any worse with the GC boxes.

 

Again.. it's not RNG that is the issue, it's loot table and loot table filtering. RNG is not evil... but some loot tables are and can be (Alliance crates being one example). Bugs in the loot table or filters could also be a problem.. but bugs get reported and fixed.

 

People really need to think before jamming their knees up into their jaws.

RNG is still an issue...it's still "evil" when talking about end game gearing, which is a necessity for many end game activities.

 

The Command Boxes are closer to the rarity of Alliance Crates, not Heroic Crates. Command boxes will NOT offer you the choice of A or B, they will give you ONE piece vs two, and they are pulling from a far greater pool than what Heroic crates pull from.

[BaineOs]

Except this is nowhere as bad as battlemaster bags. Your explanation of how battlemaster bags makes me question if you even played the game at launch. I'll explain how they actually worked, since galactic command is much better in comparison.

......

I was one of the first players on my server (Shien) to become a battlemaster at launch and it took me MONTHS to get the full set.

 

We aren't grinding for battlemaster comms in 5.0. We are getting a GUARANTEED piece of gear every time we get a galactic command crate. Yes, it's random. However, at least we get SOMETHING. Also, we can disintegrate it and get more experience towards our next galactic command level. This system is VASTLY BETTER than what we had at launch for PvP. You are comparing apples to oranges, as is everybody else who actually never experienced the battlemaster bags at launch.

Ya see....you seem to forget that a lot of other people were around back then who remember those days. I also have a battlemaster korealis mount (yes I read your first post/thread on this subject)...do I get a gold star?

 

I remember the insanely crap conversion rate when they did get rid of them. For the three coms that I had I got nothing of real value in return.

 

The point is....I remember those days. I remember my friends who suffered from it far more than I did.

 

I am NOT going back to any kind of RNG system. Period.

 

I do pve and flashpoints mixed in with pvp and the class story missions whilst I'm levelling up but when I reach max level? I'm only ever interested in pvp (and even then I don't care for ranked at all, terrible form of PVP in my view) unless a new story chapter comes along. I don't do operations, I don't do hard mode flashpoints, I don't do Starfighter.

 

I'm certainly not about to pay someone else on the GTN for gear that I should be able to get myself. And how cheap do you expect the mats to be? Like for real? Since when have BW ever made such crafting mats relatively easy to get? You'll be getting them via these crates I'm guessing. Even if they did, I'm damn well not going to get gear with no bonus set.

 

Your attempts to educate people who were not around back then is admirable my friend but don't be arrogant in your belief that everyone who is complaining about RNG doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

I don't like what they are proposing, I cannot stand the idea never mind the thought that this might...will probably actually get to the live servers.

 

The best thing they can do in my opinion is to forget the whole damn proposed system. I recognise that the vast majority of people are complaining about the RNG....and I'm sure that my comments above make my feelings on the matter perfectly clear. But my views go further, I resent the fact they are removing expertise. Let the pver's have their gear and let us pvp'ers have ours. The current system we have to obtain our pvp gear is perfect. A classic case of taking something that isn't broken and then breaking it.

[Psychopyro]

I figured they just used that stock market monkey. You know the one that throws darts at the stock page and you invest in that stock... Only they used a list of ideas that had been in game before and what they maybe considered adding....

[TUXs]

I figured they just used that stock market monkey. You know the one that throws darts at the stock page and you invest in that stock... Only they used a list of ideas that had been in game before and what they maybe considered adding....

This explains EVERYTHING!!! They're using the wrong board

 

Rather than using the "dart board of crazy", they're using the "dart board of crap".