Why Macros belong in TOR.

[Raansu]

k low rated baddie

 

Awww its ok scrub, we know you can't handle a game without a handicap given to you. Maybe one day you will be above average. Not likely, but you can continue to dream I suppose

Edited November 2, 2013 by Raansu

[orryko]

Awww its ok scrub, we know you can't handle a game without a handicap given to you. Maybe one day you will be above average. Not likely, but you can continue to dream I suppose

 

ummm ok. guess you don't watch streams too much. keep up that mediocre damage in your regs qt

 

i will stand on fleet so you can see all my rewards at the end of s1

[madtycoon]

its pure trash, you know. Idea of macros reduce quantity of keybinds, not increase.

 

For guardian tank, you need keybind:

1. Guardian slash + riposte + aoe slow

2. Enure + wz medpack

3. Saber throw + Force leap + force sweep + aoe slow

4. Sundering strike + blade storm

5. Target (2, 3, 4) + guard + guardian leap

 

- thats almost all/ You just saving time in pushing multiple buttons with combos with pushing several buttons. Easy.

 

And zero skill.

 

I don't understand what you are talking about. If I am taking it out of context, then I'm sorry. It sounds like you believe I am asking for cast sequence macros, because your above examples fall into that category. I am not supporting those type of macros.

 

Below is a breakdown of a Guardian Tank's current hotkeys for PvP. Each line represents an individual keybind. Below that is a breakdown of the type of macros I am asking for in my previous posts. Hopefully this helps people visualize the amount of keybinds a skilled player would have to manage, if macros were introduced.

 

Basic Guardian Tank Keybinds for Abilities (+38 keybinds)

Saber Throw

Sundering Strike

Guardian Slash

Slash

Cyclone Slash

Master Strike

Bladestorm

Riposte

Force Sweep

Strike

Guardian Leap

Force Leap

Focused Defense

Enure

Saber Reflect

Warding Call

Saber Ward

Combat Focus

Soresu Form

Shii-Cho Form

Resolute

Challenging Roar

Taunt

Guard

Force Push

Freezing Force

Awe

Hilt Strike

Force Stasis

Force Kick

Introspection

Force Might

 

Knockdown Grenade

Root Grenade

Medpack

Expertise Pack

Strength Stim

Endurance Stim

 

Basic Targeting Keybinds (+10 keybinds)

Target Party Member 1

Target Party Member 2

Target Party Member 3

Target Nearest Enemy

Target Next Enemy

Target Center Screen

Target Nearest Friendly

Target Target's Target

Target Focus's Target

Set Focus

 

Basic Abilities to use off Focus (+6 keybinds)

Focus Force Push

Focus Taunt

Focus Hilt Strike

Focus Force Stasis

Focus Force Kick

Focus Force Leap

 

MACROS

Macros to use on Party Members (+6 keybinds)

Guardian Leap Party Member 1

Guardian Leap Party Member 2

Guardian Leap Party Member 3

Guard Party Member 1

Guard Party Member 2

Guard Party Member 3

 

Targeting Arena 1-4 Macros (+8 keybinds)

Target Arena 1

Target Arena 2

Target Arena 3

Target Arena 4

Set Focus Arena 1

Set Focus Arena 2

Set Focus Arena 3

Set Focus Arena 4

 

Macros to use on Arena Targets (+8 keybinds)

Taunt Arena 1

Taunt Arena 2

Taunt Arena 3

Taunt Arena 4

Force Kick Arena 1

Force Kick Arena 2

Force Kick Arena 3

Force Kick Arena 4

 

Additional Macros to use on Arena Targets (+16 keybinds)

Force Push Arena 1

Force Push Arena 2

Force Push Arena 3

Force Push Arena 4

Hilt Strike Arena 1

Hilt Strike Arena 2

Hilt Strike Arena 3

Hilt Strike Arena 4

Force Stasis Arena 1

Force Stasis Arena 2

Force Stasis Arena 3

Force Stasis Arena 4

Force Leap Arena 1

Force Leap Arena 2

Force Leap Arena 3

Force Leap Arena 4

 

Miscellaneous (-1 keybind)

Spammable Guard Macro - does not cancel guard when a player spams it (would replace guard, but would require an additional keybind to cancel guard)

Cancelaura Guard Macro - Cancels Guard

!cast Root Grenade - keeps the aoe cursor on the ground until cancelled or the ability is used (replaces root grenade)

!cast Knockdown Grenade - ''

Stance Changing Macro - would change stances depending on a player's current stance (removes 1 keybind)

 

The only macro from the above list that removes keybinds is a stance changing macro. It would be questionable if that sort of macro would even be allowed. I have it there, because stance changing macros allow more customization for stealth classes (for some reason they don't have a stealth bar).

 

The other macros increase keybinds. If a player only played arena (no warzones and no PvE), then they could unbind their basic targeting hotkeys and abilities like guardian leap and guard. They would then replace them with these type of macros, but they would still need more overall keybinds.

 

World of Warcraft allows players to use abilities that are off GCD in one macro. This is a form of cast sequence macro and I would rather SWTOR not adopt it. One of the main reasons I am against this is abilities like Riposte. If this was WOW, Riposte could be bound to each one of a guardian's attacks, making the rotation easier. A skilled player would not want to do this, because there are going to be times when they would not want to use Riposte, but that does not change the fact that these type of macros should not be added to this game.

[madtycoon]

and where would i put them?

 

Modifiers help with action bar space.

Edited November 2, 2013 by madtycoon

[orryko]

inb4 some retard further tries to argue with madtycoon's ownage

[TonyDragonflame]

I don't understand what you are talking about. If I am taking it out of context, then I'm sorry. It sounds like you believe I am asking for cast sequence macros, because your above examples fall into that category. I am not supporting those type of macros.

 

I help you improve your game playing for guardian tank.

 

"Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" - Occam's razor

"Keep it simply, stupid!" - usability principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

 

 

Below is a breakdown of a Guardian Tank's current hotkeys for PvP. Each line represents an individual keybind. Below that is a breakdown of the type of macros I am asking for in my previous posts. Hopefully this helps people visualize the amount of keybinds a skilled player would have to manage, if macros were introduced.

 

Basic Guardian Tank Keybinds for Abilities (+38 keybinds)

Saber Throw

Sundering Strike

Guardian Slash

Slash - dont need

Cyclone Slash - dont need

Master Strike

Bladestorm

Riposte

Force Sweep

Strike

Guardian Leap

Force Leap

Focused Defense

Enure

Saber Reflect

Warding Call

Saber Ward

Combat Focus

Soresu Form - dont need

Shii-Cho Form - dont need

Resolute

Challenging Roar

Taunt

Guard

Force Push

Freezing Force

Awe

Hilt Strike

Force Stasis

Force Kick

Introspection

Force Might -dont need

 

Knockdown Grenade

Root Grenade -dont need when you have seismic grenade

Medpack

Expertise Pack

Strength Stim - dont need

Endurance Stim - dont need

 

Basic Targeting Keybinds (+10 keybinds)

Target Party Member 1

Target Party Member 2

Target Party Member 3 -dont need

Target Nearest Enemy

Target Next Enemy

Target Center Screen - dont need

Target Nearest Friendly

Target Target's Target

Target Focus's Target

Set Focus - dont need

 

Basic Abilities to use off Focus (+6 keybinds)

Focus Force Push

Focus Taunt

Focus Hilt Strike

Focus Force Stasis

Focus Force Kick

Focus Force Leap - already exists

 

MACROS

Macros to use on Party Members (+6 keybinds)

Guardian Leap Party Member 1

Guardian Leap Party Member 2

Guardian Leap Party Member 3

Guard Party Member 1

Guard Party Member 2

Guard Party Member 3

 

Targeting Arena 1-4 Macros (+8 keybinds)

Target Arena 1

Target Arena 2

Target Arena 3

Target Arena 4

Set Focus Arena 1

Set Focus Arena 2

Set Focus Arena 3

Set Focus Arena 4

 

Macros to use on Arena Targets (+8 keybinds)

Taunt Arena 1

Taunt Arena 2

Taunt Arena 3

Taunt Arena 4

Force Kick Arena 1

Force Kick Arena 2

Force Kick Arena 3

Force Kick Arena 4

 

Additional Macros to use on Arena Targets (+16 keybinds)

Force Push Arena 1

Force Push Arena 2

Force Push Arena 3

Force Push Arena 4

Hilt Strike Arena 1

Hilt Strike Arena 2

Hilt Strike Arena 3

Hilt Strike Arena 4

Force Stasis Arena 1

Force Stasis Arena 2

Force Stasis Arena 3

Force Stasis Arena 4

Force Leap Arena 1

Force Leap Arena 2

Force Leap Arena 3

Force Leap Arena 4 -dont need

 

Miscellaneous (-1 keybind)

Spammable Guard Macro - does not cancel guard when a player spams it (would replace guard, but would require an additional keybind to cancel guard)

Cancelaura Guard Macro - Cancels Guard

!cast Root Grenade - keeps the aoe cursor on the ground until cancelled or the ability is used (replaces root grenade)

!cast Knockdown Grenade - ''

Stance Changing Macro - would change stances depending on a player's current stance (removes 1 keybind)

 

 

- 34 buttons

 

Add macros:

* Guardian slash + riposte + aoe slow =1 button instead of separeted guardian slash, riposte and aoe slow

* Sundering strike + blade storm =1 button instead of separated sundering strike and blade storm

* Force leap + force sweep + aoe slow = 1 button instead of 3

* Enure + Wz medpack + wz adrenal = 1 button instead of 3

 

- use 4 keybinds instead of 11

 

= got 27 buttons and most used 8-12 only. Easy. No skill.

[deedeede]

lack of ingame macros is one of the things that attracts me to this game, also has good parts, keeps multiboxers away from warzones Edited November 2, 2013 by deedeede

[JediMasterSLC]

I help you improve your game playing for guardian tank.

 

"Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" - Occam's razor

"Keep it simply, stupid!" - usability principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

 

 

 

- 34 buttons

 

Add macros:

* Guardian slash + riposte + aoe slow =1 button instead of separeted guardian slash, riposte and aoe slow

* Sundering strike + blade storm =1 button instead of separated sundering strike and blade storm

* Force leap + force sweep + aoe slow = 1 button instead of 3

* Enure + Wz medpack + wz adrenal = 1 button instead of 3

 

- use 4 keybinds instead of 11

 

= got 27 buttons and most used 8-12 only. Easy. No skill.

 

I think this discussion is over, you're obviously clueless.

[wpalmer]

I just wanna give props to the ******* that think macros are a bad idea

 

Here is some insight why macros are useful

 

Your a jedi sage - Seer ( Healing )

 

What do we Healers cast as the first ability like always?

 

Force Armor

 

And how many ppl are in a group ?

 

4 - 16

 

 

SO what happens?

 

Your CONSTANATLY casting the SAME ability over n over not to mention Delays

 

and lets not forget DELAYS have a important factor ( variable ) that can be included with this argument

 

for healing

 

SO the fact of macroing a spell cast on force armor on your +3 d Players Per second since it requires a Keyboard command to be presssed so we type

 

L + L + L

 

Saves 0.3 seconds instead of

 

Casting - Move + position + Click

 

Mess up Redo - Click etc etc

 

 

 

But then again this argument is based off ignorance and the lack of being able to understand stuff

 

Especially for the people that cant comprehend a dam thing

 

Lets not forget

 

Ignorance is Bliss

 

 

---- Peace ------

[Zoom_VI]

The question is not whether macros are useful - they are extremely useful, so useful in fact that if they where allowed any player who wasn't kitting themselves out with a vast armory of macros would be a definite disadvantage to macro players.

 

BW does not allow macros because macros are basically utilized to gain advantages over others either directly or indirectly via better efficiency.

[Raansu]

I just wanna give props to the ******* that think macros are a bad idea

 

Here is some insight why macros are useful

 

Your a jedi sage - Seer ( Healing )

 

What do we Healers cast as the first ability like always?

 

Force Armor

 

And how many ppl are in a group ?

 

4 - 16

 

 

SO what happens?

 

Your CONSTANATLY casting the SAME ability over n over not to mention Delays

 

and lets not forget DELAYS have a important factor ( variable ) that can be included with this argument

 

for healing

 

SO the fact of macroing a spell cast on force armor on your +3 d Players Per second since it requires a Keyboard command to be presssed so we type

 

L + L + L

 

Saves 0.3 seconds instead of

 

Casting - Move + position + Click

 

Mess up Redo - Click etc etc

 

 

 

But then again this argument is based off ignorance and the lack of being able to understand stuff

 

Especially for the people that cant comprehend a dam thing

 

Lets not forget

 

Ignorance is Bliss

 

 

---- Peace ------

 

This thread is two years old. Stop necroing it. Macros are never going to be in this game, get over it. Takes zero skill to use macros that automate everything.

[Eyesmindassassin]

The question is not whether macros are useful - they are extremely useful, so useful in fact that if they where allowed any player who wasn't kitting themselves out with a vast armory of macros would be a definite disadvantage to macro players.

 

BW does not allow macros because macros are basically utilized to gain advantages over others either directly or indirectly via better efficiency.

 

Same could be said about premades, so why not disallow those, too? Can't have it both ways.

[Raazmir]

An in game macro system is available to all players that care to learn how to use it. Claiming it's some unfair advantage is the same as claiming that knowing how to properly spec and properly push a rotation is an unfair advantage.

 

Learn the systems, use them to win.

[Raansu]

An in game macro system is available to all players that care to learn how to use it. Claiming it's some unfair advantage is the same as claiming that knowing how to properly spec and properly push a rotation is an unfair advantage.

 

Learn the systems, use them to win.

 

Except macros automate multiple keys into a single keypress. I've had kill macros on my rogue in WoW where I just mashed one key and did an entire setup that bursts people down. Macros are lazy and idiotic.

[madtycoon]

Except macros automate multiple keys into a single keypress. I've had kill macros on my rogue in WoW where I just mashed one key and did an entire setup that bursts people down. Macros are lazy and idiotic.

 

read the thread, especially what the OP is talking about

 

you are arguing macros are bad, because of cast sequence macros

 

OP doesn't want cast sequence macros

Swifty one shot macros are cast sequence, because WoW allows things off global to be throw into the same macro with one keypress. Not what he's asking for.

 

I personally want. Focus support macros. Arena 1-4 macros. Party support macros. Arena Focus macros. Stopcasting. Could care less about mouseover. It would only be efficient in warzones/ops where you can't bind all your teammates. Not cast sequence

 

People arguing against macros don't really understand what they bring. They probably don't want to learn more keybinds. They probably don't play off a focus frame. They probably click on things like their party frames and aren't looking to multi-target. Which means they aren't looking to reach the skill ceiling. 99% of the player base probably falls into this category, which means macros will never be added.

 

The developers could make using focus, targetting and stopcasting better by adding more keybind options (stopcasting, arena 1-4, focus arena 1-4), making hotbar keybinds override the focus modifier, making enemy nameplates clickable and synching party frames inside an ops to party 1-3.

 

They don't need to add macros to fix those problems. But macros would be an easier solution to the above, plus they would allow people to bind abilities to individual teammates or enemies (based off arena frame positioning).

 

These things have nothing to do with cast sequence macros, but a bunch of people are probably going to argue "durrrrr, macros are bad, cuz back when i played wow 5 years ago i could put all my abilities on one keybind"

[Raansu]

read the thread, especially what the OP is talking about

 

you are arguing macros are bad, because of cast sequence macros

 

OP doesn't want cast sequence macros

Swifty one shot macros are cast sequence, because WoW allows things off global to be throw into the same macro with one keypress. Not what he's asking for.

 

I personally want. Focus support macros. Arena 1-4 macros. Party support macros. Arena Focus macros. Stopcasting. Could care less about mouseover. It would only be efficient in warzones/ops where you can't bind all your teammates. Not cast sequence

 

People arguing against macros don't really understand what they bring. They probably don't want to learn more keybinds. They probably don't play off a focus frame. They probably click on things like their party frames and aren't looking to multi-target. Which means they aren't looking to reach the skill ceiling. 99% of the player base probably falls into this category, which means macros will never be added.

 

The developers could make using focus, targetting and stopcasting better by adding more keybind options (stopcasting, arena 1-4, focus arena 1-4), making hotbar keybinds override the focus modifier, making enemy nameplates clickable and synching party frames inside an ops to party 1-3.

 

They don't need to add macros to fix those problems. But macros would be an easier solution to the above, plus they would allow people to bind abilities to individual teammates or enemies (based off arena frame positioning).

 

These things have nothing to do with cast sequence macros, but a bunch of people are probably going to argue "durrrrr, macros are bad, cuz back when i played wow 5 years ago i could put all my abilities on one keybind"

 

The game already has multiple focus targeting modifier keybinds built into the game. So how about no? Developers stance to macros has always been no. Its not gonna happen so stop bumping this old *** thread every several months. Macros are for scrubs, learn to use the tools within the game that 99% of you never use.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Raansu

[AlrikFassbauer]

Macros would be an advance over casual gamers, because casuals don't use macros, especially after long days of work ...

 

But, most of you hate casuals anyway, I guess ...

[XXcaesar]

i just thought i should point out anyone that would like a 1 key kill sequence they need to just get a SWTOR Razr keyboard

 

here is how its advertised

 

Extreme Anti-Ghosting for Multi-Key Press Destruction

The Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ Gaming Keyboard by Razer™ complete anti-ghosting of up to 10 key presses to let you further expand your repertoire of boss-killing, Flashpoint-destroying, and world-exploring macros and skills. With the ability to execute more than a single key command at one time, it’s an absolute competitive advantage for taking your game to the next level.

 

i know this tread is not for this type of macro's i just wonted to point out at some point all macros were going to be aloud i think something went wrong during development and to save face they said we are not supporting any macros

and now there stuck with it

[AdrianKross]

Personally, I'm sick of trying to complete a warzone when half the other team are rapidly moving back and forth unnaturally. It is a load of crap if you ask me that Bioware hasn't hired GM's to police that behavior. The problem with macros is it does not matter how much time you invest into getting better at the game, gearing yourself out or coming up with a good build, because some talentless dipstick with a macro can beat you regardless.

 

It's the same as hacking. You are abusing a third party program in order to provide yourself with an advantage the game was not designed for you to have. I report this behavior and am told I need to report every individual player who is using this hack that allows them to nightcrawler like teleport back and forth repeatedly. Is bioware going to pay me to do a GM's job? Not likely. It's ruining my enjoyment of the game because I work damn hard to build my characters and to figure proper rotations and the best skills to use for what class. I do great in warzones usually, unless some no talent moron is macroing then I can't land a hit because they're glitching all over the screen and seem to be able to break any amount of stuns I put on them.

 

The talentless and lazy will always support and abuse macros and they will do so to the expense of those who actually take the time to learn how to actually play a game properly. When warzones are about who has the best macro, skill has left the game and the skilled players out there follow suit.

[DarthBloodloss]

Some macros are allowed. I asked a dev on these forums and he replied directly to me. I'm sure its there still if all old posts remain.

 

The dev basically said that any macro is allowed, as long as it only activates 1 ability per macro use. Meaning, you could use a "priority" macro so that 1 button can be used to fire off several different attacks. As long as pressing the macro key only activates 1 ability for 1 GCD, you are fine. You can use that same macro and just spam it.

 

So there are no complex, multi-ability macros but you really shouldn't be using macros that way in the first place. (In general...not a rule)

---

Just for the non believers, here is an example of a very basic macro that has basically zero downside to use. Its not necessary by any means, but its just a small example of what is possible:

Any time you use your rage builder (assault?) as a sith warrior, it always checks first to see if the rage builder with CD (battering assault?) is available. If not, it fires the non-CD version anyways.

Edited May 22, 2014 by DarthBloodloss

[Zoom_VI]

Personally, I'm sick of trying to complete a warzone when half the other team are rapidly moving back and forth unnaturally. It is a load of crap if you ask me that Bioware hasn't hired GM's to police that behavior.

 

You don't happen to mean strafing sideways rapidly and then abruptly reversing directions, while also turning around behind the target? Because if you are that's not a macro that's just strafe keys + mouse turning.

[howieloader]

You don't happen to mean strafing sideways rapidly and then abruptly reversing directions, while also turning around behind the target? Because if you are that's not a macro that's just strafe keys + mouse turning.

 

When will Bioware nerf mouse turning???

[DarthOvertone]

Some macros are allowed. I asked a dev on these forums and he replied directly to me. I'm sure its there still if all old posts remain.

 

Welcome back dude.

 

 

When will Bioware nerf mouse turning???

 

hahaha

[StrikePrice]

My mouse has macros, but I don't really need them for this game. They can make life a lot nicer if you have them -- I love the Rift system, for example, but they are not strictly necessary. Fundamentally, it would be nice if the game supported macros and add-ins, but the devs are too lazy to implement them.

[funkiestj]

Some macros are allowed. I asked a dev on these forums and he replied directly to me. I'm sure its there still if all old posts remain.

.

 

Phillip from BW security giving the official position on macros

 

 

Text Macros

Strictly speaking, text macro's are against the ToS. ...

 

One click 'enter chat, type 'inc snow!', hit enter' text macros designed to warn others is completely against the ToS. You need to make a decision - do I take the time to type 'inc snow' to the ops group, or do I just keep fighting this person... Think of it as an evaluation on if you are using a tool that gives you an unfair advantage over somebody not using that same tool.

 

So, you can be in voice chat (pick your favorite -- mine is mumble) and say "3 incoming snow" and that is within the ToS but if you use a macro to type "inc snow" in the chatbox that is violating the ToS because the macro gives competitive advantage

 

For more amusement read this post in which Phillip establishes some concrete precedents to ponder. In this post Phillip says

 

II thought I was pretty clear that one input action must equal only one action in game, but obviously not -

In context of the thread we learn that Phillip's idea of one action in game is a Microsoft Windows key/button press event being sent from the operating system to the SWTOR client.

 

The more stupid readers of this thread probably thought (as I did) that an "in game action" would be an action another toon would be able to observe in game (e.g. casting force storm or performing the /dance emote). You are welcome.

Edited May 22, 2014 by funkiestj