Extortion of returning players

[TUXs]

Well that is debatable, however the fact is if you do not want to pay any extra, saving up 2 months of those CC's will give you a transfer.

That's correct. It wouldn't cost you anything extra to move ONE toon.

[Toraak]

I feel like you're going to pull a muscle with how much you're reaching here.

 

1) Using a referral grants one free transfer if you haven't used one before. So that's one free transfer you get in what, the entire life of the game? It's something, but returning players could easily have used it already and they are the main ones who are likely to need it. It also only accounts for one character and you can have a lot! Up to 40 with slot unlocks prior to the post-DvL change that made it max 50.

 

2) Waiting 1-2 months to get the CC to do one transfer. Again, really bad situation for returning players. Not really useful at all.

 

3) The "extremely low cost of $10"? If this was a game where you are limited to one character per server, I might agree with you that it's low cost because then you're essentially paying $10 to transfer the beginning and end of your life on that server to a different one. But a player who left prior to DvL and is now returning could have as many as 40 characters they need to transfer. 10*40=400. So they could need to spend as much as $400 to transfer every character on that server.

 

You expect someone to "reroll their alts" when they can have that many characters?

 

This game is all about immersion and story and growing attached to characters. Rerolling is not the same as in other games, unless you're somebody who doesn't grow attached to your characters at all. In which case you could probably be getting a much better game experience elsewhere. It's one of the reasons there was so much uproar about the DvL event and the inability to use pre-existing characters.

 

Fact is, nobody "needs" to transfer any characters. But people are going to desire to transfer anywhere from 1-40, if not more. And if that desire is blocked by too much of a paywall and they can't get the experience out of the game that they're looking to get, they are going to leave. It's not so much about giving people what they want, as it is about creating an environment where people will want to stick around.

 

So your saying if you made 40 characters, (which is a lot) you wouldn't be making more characters anyway? I know I do. I have 37 characters on harb alone, and another 32 spread across all of the other NA server. My point is if you enjoyed the ride that many times, the odds are you'd enjoy it again, so why not just reroll the classes you do enjoy after you transferred 1 character. The ride is still good 5 years later.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Toraak

[Rolodome]

So your saying if you made 40 characters, (which is a lot) you wouldn't be making more characters anyway? I know I do. I have 37 characters on harb alone, and another 32 spread across all of the other NA server. My point is if you enjoyed the ride that many times, the odds are you'd enjoy it again, so why not just reroll the classes you do enjoy after you transferred 1 character. The ride is still good 5 years later.

I have no idea. I'm mostly talking about returning players. Maybe the person would want to make more, or maybe they wanted to come back and enjoy the ones that they carefully made over a very long period of time. Maybe they got all they wanted out of the ride and they just want to do new stuff on their already-made characters.

 

The bottom line is, the server situation is not pretty and $10 transfers aren't helping with peoples' perception of it. I'm hoping they're working on some kind of mega-this or cross-that because the problem ain't gonna go away. Long as this game keeps breathing, it's going to be an issue, and all these pop issues do is sour the mood of players and give fuel to the doomsayers. You set up the right kind of population connections and people won't be talking about it, unless the game gets so bad that every instance across the whole thing is empty and at that point, the game is probably dead anyway, so it doesn't matter.

 

Plus, if they do set up something that connects people in the right way, that's going to make the game feel more populated no matter where you are and will thereby reverse some of the population issues in the process by making the game more attractive to both new and returning players... i.e. they need to do something that might feel like giving up to get the pop in a more consistently upwards (or at least, relatively even down/up) momentum.

[UmbralSpirit]

Don't you think Bioware has access to data they could review that would correlate what you're saying and take action? Surely they have extensive reports that details all kinds of fascinating things. I can only assume that a pretty big item would be new subs and if they cancel within 30 days (or similar retention metric).

Obviously if this was a major issue and they were bleeding 1st time subscribers, I'd expect they'd have made a change by now. Which means IMO that either it doesn't have much of an impact or the cost to fix it outweighs benefit gained.

 

No they wouldn't, take a look at KOTFE and the DvL event the only thing EA does with metrics and data they gather is distorting them.

[CaptRogue]

No they wouldn't, take a look at KOTFE and the DvL event the only thing EA does with metrics and data they gather is distorting them.

 

^THIS! A thousand times! *claps*

[Transcendent]

Exactly. They're used to increase the value of the sub fee.

 

I agree that they are used to increase the value of the sub fee. However I disagree that you pay for those coins directly, which is why they are called Complimentary Cartel Coins and not Cartel Coins. Complimentary does mean something that is given free of charge.

 

It's highly ambiguous, I admit. However the naming is quite clear on what they are and how much they cost.

[TUXs]

No they wouldn't, take a look at KOTFE and the DvL event the only thing EA does with metrics and data they gather is distorting them.

EXACTLY!!!!

 

Read this post by their Dev...pay attention to the part about where players were spending their time. They seem unable to understand that new content, even new shinies, motivate players to do an activity. If TFB had been a WZ, they'd have seen a spike in WZ activity. If TFB had been a FP, they'd have seen a spike in FP activity...players like NEW things to do...which is what I believe they keep over looking.

[robertthebard]

Dead servers, and the plight of players who have characters on them is what this thread is about. The fact that some people have honed in on the idea that the op should have known better than to trust EA, and could have saved their sub fee and the frustration that they now feel if they had research player population before deciding to take advantage of the promotion meant to entice them to return to the game is just a way that some people are attempting to shift blame away from EA, and towards the op.

 

Yeah, because when I spend my money on stuff I shouldn't have, it's always someone else's fault.

[robertthebard]

There is most certainly an argument to be made.

 

1) Not all players played during the time the 90 cc transfers were available. I've seen a number of people make posts about returning to dead servers.

 

2) I've invested a lot of time in decorating my four strongholds. If I transfer to another server I would have to reinvest the time again if I want conquest bonus like I do on my current server. It would be different if deployed stronghold decorations were also applied to server character was transferred to but that is not how it works.

 

3) Character name(s) I have on current server is not available on server I want to transfer to. I reject any argument that it's the player's fault for not being "forward thinking" enough to reserve character names on other servers.

 

How would a free transfer fix that? If the name is taken, it's taken, no matter how much, or how little a transfer costs. So now it's what, "I want a free transfer, and to keep my names, even if someone else already has it"?

 

So while I will not claim that BioWare did nothing I will say that the measures BioWare took actually exacerbated server population imbalance but apparently this was all the studio could offer as a solution. I fully acknowledge I am a player who had the opportunity to take advantage of the 90 cc character transfers. I'm just at the point where having played the game since launch I'm not interested in giving up anything I currently have so I will either deal with my low pop server or stop playing the game.

[theUndead]

In the same breath you admonish me for making a post about this issue on the forums, you tell me I should have referred to the forums to have become aware of this issue. Why mindlessly defend something you know is lame, and actively drives players out of a game you enjoy?

 

Bioware is here to make money, not their fault players were taken in by the material. Who are you to say it is lame? I know many players who are really enjoying the new content so instead of admonishing the entire company, why not just speak for yourself?

[Exly]

Bioware is here to make money, not their fault players were taken in by the material. Who are you to say it is lame? I know many players who are really enjoying the new content so instead of admonishing the entire company, why not just speak for yourself?

 

You make it sound like EA was intentionally trying to con people in order to make money, and that it isn't their fault that people fell for the con. That is an interesting point of view, but it is also one that I tend to disagree with.

[ekwalizer]

I agree that they are used to increase the value of the sub fee. However I disagree that you pay for those coins directly, which is why they are called Complimentary Cartel Coins and not Cartel Coins. Complimentary does mean something that is given free of charge.

 

It's highly ambiguous, I admit. However the naming is quite clear on what they are and how much they cost.

 

Precisely.

[ekwalizer]

Versus punishing them with a monetary penalty and driving them away again you mean? Uh...hell yes lol. Bioware's job is to RETAIN subscribers...not drive them away...

 

How are they being penalized for missing a 10 month event that they were notified about via email? They aren't being driven away, they were already away. Even if they decided to stop financially supporting the product, they had AT ALL TIMES the option to play for free since the end of 2012. That requires zero financial input for them to assess the situation on their server.

[BobTheTeepo]

You're right, this topic has been discussed for many months now, and in several threads. So when will you decide to hold EA accountable to their inaction in dealing with the problem?

 

When I feel they have not taken action and are in fact responsible. Free character transfers, multiple free ways to earn CC, transfer discounts, servers being closed left and right all strike me as action. Your side wants action, but fails to give good examples of what action you want. When we clearly lay out that action has been taken many times (free transfers, massive long-lasting transfer discounts, free cartel coins, server closures) you simply ignore it and pretend Bioware has done nothing.

 

Also, one free transfer is a only a start, and is a move in the right direction, but closing low population servers like they have done in the past to deal with the problem is probably the right solution unless or until the games player population increases to a level necessary to make the current number of servers viable for all advertised solo and group content offered by the game for players on all servers. Short of that, free character transfers for people with characters on low population servers would also be a solution that could work.

 

As previously mentioned, closing these servers is:

 

1) In no way a solution. Managing symptoms doesn't solve the cause of them.

2) It alienates the group of people who want to stay on their server (which you don't seem to care about, you only care about people who have to work a little to move off, apparently).

 

Free character transfers for all people on low pop servers heavily cuts into Bioware's profits. That's not a viable solution, for obvious reasons. Realism is needed in these types of cases. Your solutions are not good for relatively obvious reasons, this isn't a charity. If you want them to take a huge loss in money, you need a good way for them to make up for it.

Edited October 6, 2016 by BobTheTeepo

[ekwalizer]

As a returning player (I just came back a few weeks back) it would have been nice to have at least one free character transfer as the server they chose at launch could be totally dead now. That being said, I think just about every other MMORPG that's subscription based charges for the character transfers. Why would this one be any different?

 

Pick a random signature of just about any forum user (but seriously not mine*) for a free transfer. Wait until your 2nd month as a subscriber and spend the complimentary CC for a free transfer. You have options.

 

* So it can't be advertising for my link.

[ekwalizer]

At 90cc per toon, I was able to justify it as being a mild expense above the sub fee...at 1000cc, I can't...it's just too much to ask someone to pay on top of what they're already paying.

 

They give us 500-600 complimentary comms per month. I fail to understand how using something that you are given, at no additional cost, to increase your gaming experience is even a mild expense.

 

for 10 months, people were able to move 5-6 toons per month at no financial cost to them.

 

What's next? Should we sue Microsoft because we failed to invest in them in the early 1990s?

[ekwalizer]

Still fighting the good fight Tux? At this point, if people don't understand that BW has more to gain by allowing returning players to move to a populated server than the $10 they get for a transfer, I don't think they ever will. If I pay $15 to sub for a month when I come back, realize I have to spend money to transfer characters or start from scratch, then they most likely won't see my second $15 contribution. It's not a blame thing, it's a cost/benefit thing and unfortunately EA isn't going to let BW admit they have some extremely low pop servers that are a problem for new/returning players no matter how many existing players love the solitude.

 

I understand what you are saying, and the point is well taken.

 

For me, it is a matter of personal responsibility. They had the option to move for free and chose not to do so. We are not talking about waves of returning players. Look no further than TORStatus to verify that. This game has been hemorrhaging players since May 2015. KotFE did not fix that. TFA did not fix that. RS will not fix it and KotET will not fix it. They touted that subs returned to the level of the launch of 2.0 and neglected the fact that we had far fewer players at 2.0 than we did at 1.0.

 

I fully expected, and turned out to be wrong, that at the end of the 90 CC event, Bioware would state servers XYZ can no longer be sustained, you had your chance to go where you wanted to go now we are merging those servers into these servers.

 

Is that the best answer for everyone? No, but it is a valid answer and in line with their previous behavior.

[ekwalizer]

I think his point is that it doesn't actually cost anywhere near $10 for BW to make the transfer. How much a transfer is worth is obviously subjective and other games have higher costs. Of course, not transferring in a game like WoW has a much lower impact on a player with cross-realm everything, so there is almost never a need to transfer.

 

It doesn't cost Starbucks $6 to make you a coffee either. But that is what they charge and if you want their product that is what you pay.

[ekwalizer]

Saving two months of your monthly subscription grant is not free. You pay for those coins.

 

False. They are complimentary. They are included in the price of the subscription. The price of the subscription is the same as it was prior to the complimentary CC.

 

If there existed a subscription option at a lower rate to not include the complimentary CC you would have a valid point. But because that does not exist your premise is false.

[ekwalizer]

I feel like you're going to pull a muscle with how much you're reaching here.

 

I think you are stretching it a little yourself.

 

Returning players most likely do not have 40 characters to transfer, at least not on one server. In order to have 40 on one server, they would have had to have been active during the 90 CC "event". Full stop.

 

Also you are talking about people who either were never that invested in the game in the first place, or weren't invested long enough to actually have leveled 40 characters at all.

 

Why do people always go all or nothing. I have 33 toons at max level. If I needed to rehome, I would only move the ones that I actually play. So that rules out my Sentinal and Marauder, my sniper and slinger, my sage, my vanguard. Most likely my two sorcs wouldn't make the move. Neither of my powertechs. And on and on and on.

 

Pretty much, out of 33, it would only be 1 Jug, 1 Sin, 1 Shadow, and probably 2 of my 7 mercs. So, five.

[Rolodome]

I think you are stretching it a little yourself.

 

Returning players most likely do not have 40 characters to transfer, at least not on one server. In order to have 40 on one server, they would have had to have been active during the 90 CC "event". Full stop.

 

Also you are talking about people who either were never that invested in the game in the first place, or weren't invested long enough to actually have leveled 40 characters at all.

 

Why do people always go all or nothing. I have 33 toons at max level. If I needed to rehome, I would only move the ones that I actually play. So that rules out my Sentinal and Marauder, my sniper and slinger, my sage, my vanguard. Most likely my two sorcs wouldn't make the move. Neither of my powertechs. And on and on and on.

 

Pretty much, out of 33, it would only be 1 Jug, 1 Sin, 1 Shadow, and probably 2 of my 7 mercs. So, five.

5 is still quite a lot if you're paying 1k CC for each. I wasn't trying to say that everyone who comes back to the game will be in the worst possible situation. The one dude was saying easy peasy, transfer only one character. That's one end of an extreme. The other end of the extreme would be 40 or more characters needing a transfer.

 

I would imagine the average player probably has less than 10 characters. But even having ONE to transfer, for a returning player, is not necessarily easy, free, or cheap.

[ekwalizer]

5 is still quite a lot if you're paying 1k CC for each. I wasn't trying to say that everyone who comes back to the game will be in the worst possible situation. The one dude was saying easy peasy, transfer only one character. That's one end of an extreme. The other end of the extreme would be 40 or more characters needing a transfer.

 

I would imagine the average player probably has less than 10 characters. But even having ONE to transfer, for a returning player, is not necessarily easy, free, or cheap.

 

We could debate the definition of "easy, free, or cheap" as they vary person to person. However, the price of transferring one character at full price would fall onto the cheap end of the scale when compared to other MMOs. In fact, you can transfer two toons at full price and still pay less than the standard for transferring a single toon in most other games.

[Exly]

False. They are complimentary. They are included in the price of the subscription. The price of the subscription is the same as it was prior to the complimentary CC.

 

If there existed a subscription option at a lower rate to not include the complimentary CC you would have a valid point. But because that does not exist your premise is false.

 

Geez, I thought that I was paying $15 per month for the cartel coins, and was getting the game for free. Or am I paying for unlimited access to warzones and operations and getting the story for free. Or maybe I am paying of the story and getting everything else for free.

 

The truth is that I am paying for all of these things, and I get nothing for free.

[Holocron]

Geez, I thought that I was paying $15 per month for the cartel coins, and was getting the game for free. Or am I paying for unlimited access to warzones and operations and getting the story for free. Or maybe I am paying of the story and getting everything else for free.

 

The truth is that I am paying for all of these things, and I get nothing for free.

 

Well said!

[TUXs]

Geez, I thought that I was paying $15 per month for the cartel coins, and was getting the game for free. Or am I paying for unlimited access to warzones and operations and getting the story for free. Or maybe I am paying of the story and getting everything else for free.

 

The truth is that I am paying for all of these things, and I get nothing for free.

Indeed! I find it remarkable how many people pretend to not understand this...or maybe they sincerely don't...but I have to imagine most are just pretending.