Extortion of returning players

[BobTheTeepo]

Who would imagine that they are returning to a dead server? When I see new content and expansions being released, I think a game must be flourishing and vibrant.

 

gg OP. You are guilty of being an optimist.

 

Acting on assumptions is what is wrong, having those assumptions is not. I'm an optimist, but I don't jump off a cliff ledge because there's a chance a flying rainbow sheep will catch me. Use common sense and check things out to CONFIRM your optimism. Acting before thinking like this is nearly always wrong, and most certainly always stupid.

 

Light/medium/heavy info on the server selection screen. Something really simple and easy to do.

 

Sure, but that wouldn't have even solved the OP's problems. Like we've discussed though, the very system you describe is something Bioware actually has made public and is easily accessible to a simple "server population swtor" google search. That seems fine to me, though your solution is slightly better. I don't see it changing much.

 

That's not Bioware's perspective you just described. That's still yours and you're still thinking like a customer chiding another customer, not a businessman.

 

It's not a perspective, it's an objective realization that everyone is privy to. Everyone knows to buy without even checking something out like that is stupid, even if it is beneficial. Of course Bioware realize they're making more money, but they still realize it's a stupid (as in, poorly considered, or considered in an exceedingly faulty way).

 

Letting server pop be tracked is not enough. If people have to go to a third party to get their information, that's bad business.

 

Not optimal =/= bad business. Almost nobody will refrain from buying something based on SW:ToR not having the server pop check on the selection screen, because most people know these days to google search it anyway.

 

Like I've said, I'm personally fine with your correction... but that won't deal with a returning player's problem anyways.

Edited October 4, 2016 by BobTheTeepo

[Exly]

Seems to me like it fits perfectly: nowhere in the opening post of this topic does it demonstrate that BW/EA are forcing people to maintain subs. So, totally unrelated to the title. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

I think that if you go back and read the op's first post you will see that he/she is not talking at all about the sub fee. The complaint is that after resubing to the game the server that they returned to was dead, and it was nearly impossible to form groups for operations, warzones and other group content, and that the only remedies open to them were to start all over on another server, or to pay to move his/her existing characters to a new server where the content that he/she preferred to play was available to him/her.

 

So, in reading what they said, it is clear that they felt like the promotion that was designed to entice him/her to return the game was misleading because it seemed to include the promise of MMO (aka group content), however, due to the current state of the game, and the low player population on the server that they were returned to, the group content that they sought was unavailable to them.

 

To be honest, all that the studio had to do for this was to provide server population information returning players, and then allow them to choose which server to return to based on the information provided.

 

Unfortunately, no such information was provided, and no offer to allow the op to have access to his/her characters on an active server was extended to him/her, and the result was that the op then felt as if they were being extorted (tricked, duped, or mal informed may have been better word choices) into having to solve the issue of having returned to a low population server by spending time or money to rectify the problem.

 

So you see, nothing about sub fees here except for your assertion that the op's post states otherwise.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Exly

[Exly]

Heh, as is complaining about transfer costs in a game where it's cheaper than anywhere else that offers it. I mean, I did move one for free today, that's pretty darn cheap, if ya' ask me.

 

Try moving ten or twenty more and then tell me that you still think that moving your characters is cheap.

[robertthebard]

Try moving ten or twenty more and then tell me that you still think that moving your characters is cheap.

 

Here's the rub: I don't need to. I only moved the one because I realized I'd transferred a Jedi off that I wanted back on, so I did it. I didn't even know it was going to be free until it was started. As I said earlier, 10 bucks is cheap, compared to other MMOs, and some MMOs don't even offer the service. I wanted the Jedi back on Shadowlands, so I moved it, if it was going to cost 10 bucks, that's what it was going to cost, and I was going to pay it. Hell, I even had to buy a character slot to get him moved.

[Exly]

Here's the rub: I don't need to. I only moved the one because I realized I'd transferred a Jedi off that I wanted back on, so I did it. I didn't even know it was going to be free until it was started. As I said earlier, 10 bucks is cheap, compared to other MMOs, and some MMOs don't even offer the service. I wanted the Jedi back on Shadowlands, so I moved it, if it was going to cost 10 bucks, that's what it was going to cost, and I was going to pay it. Hell, I even had to buy a character slot to get him moved.

 

Ok, so you don't need to move your characters, good for you.

 

My question was more rhetorical and was meant to get you thinking about the cost of having to move several characters in order to take full advantage of the monthly sub fee that many of us pay. But since your response was focused on you, and did not take into account the plight of others,, I suggest that you simply think about the expense that a player (not you necessarily) would have to bare in order to move several characters, and realize that even ten dollars per character transfer is lot to pay when you have several characters to move.

[Bristol]

OP,

 

I don't know how long you've been away, but as you might be able to discern, the forums are full of toxic trolls. If you ever get to a populated server, you'll see that general chat is equally infested with trolls.

 

I hear you and sympathize with your situation. I am sorry that you find yourself in a game that is, for whatever reason labelled as an MMORPG. In short, you fell for the Star Wars bait too. Unfortunately, if you attempt to play the Massively Multi-Player aspect of this game, you will likely find yourself as shocked, if not more shocked than you find yourself at the state of your once thriving server. SWTOR is VERY, and I stress VERY single-player oriented now. The whole 16-Chapter thingy that you might be starting, you will have to do completely alone. Game mechanics have been put in place such that you cannot, no matter what you try, play the new content with friends. Massively Multi-Player at its best eh.

 

Again, sorry you fell for their propaganda. Luckily, I was sub'd during the 90CC server transfer extravaganza and find myself on a populated server with a great guild.

 

Good luck with your crusade and try to ignore the *****-Hats that seem to like the single-player game that SWTOR has become since they appear to do their level-best to drive new and returning players away. A short-sighted venture in my opinion. Reminds me of PvP griefers that, once they drive off any perspective players, later complain that there isn't enough PvP

[Rion_Starkiller]

Acting on assumptions is what is wrong, having those assumptions is not. I'm an optimist, but I don't jump off a cliff ledge because there's a chance a flying rainbow sheep will catch me. Use common sense and check things out to CONFIRM your optimism. Acting before thinking like this is nearly always wrong, and most certainly always stupid.

 

That's a terrible example. Jumping off a cliff and flying requires a miracle (or literally impossible), while paying for a subscription on a MMO server SHOULD be a normal inclusion.

 

You, sir, are a pessimist.

 

But you're not complaining about just paying for subscriptions, nobody is. You're changing the topic. We were discussing people paying for subs before checking to see if the game is worth buying a sub on. To new or returning players I highly recommend: use some freaking common sense, the game is FREE, download it and try it out (including checking your server to see if it's dead) before spending money on it. Bioware didn't hide any of this from you, it's all available for free to check in game.

 

"Millennials these days" applies to this just fine. (as a Millennial, I wouldn't really go with that phrasing, but whatever)

 

I'm not changing the topic. He's a returning player. A returning player seems very likely start on his/her original legacy server. He paid for a sub to get the free expansions. Come to find out, he's on a dead server. He'd like to transfer, but paying 10 more dollars for a server transfer seems steep. I completely agree.

 

You are arguing that he should have researched first before subbing. And that is where we disagree. We are both entitled to our own opinion.

 

Have a good day.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Rion_Starkiller

[robertthebard]

Ok, so you don't need to move your characters, good for you.

 

My question was more rhetorical and was meant to get you thinking about the cost of having to move several characters in order to take full advantage of the monthly sub fee that many of us pay. But since your response was focused on you, and did not take into account the plight of others,, I suggest that you simply think about the expense that a player (not you necessarily) would have to bare in order to move several characters, and realize that even ten dollars per character transfer is lot to pay when you have several characters to move.

 

I'd pay it, if I had to, even if it meant doing it over the course of several months. All the perks from having sub are what I pay for, character transfers are not, and have never been a perk of having a sub. Of course, had it been me, before I whipped out the credit card due to an email, I would have logged in to see the state of the game. It is, after all, free, and it's free to look. If, as the OP was, I was unsatisfied, I would have closed the game, and went on about my business, with my sub money still in the bank.

[TUXs]

I'm not changing the topic. He's a returning player. A returning player seems very likely start on his/her original legacy server. He paid for a sub to get the free expansions. Come to find out, he's on a dead server. He'd like to transfer, but paying 10 more dollars for a server transfer seems steep. I completely agree

 

You are arguing that he should have researched first before subbing. And that is where we disagree. We are both entitled to our own opinion.

 

Have a good day.

EXACTLY! Any game that you need to research the servers on, is not a healthy or friendly game. I'd rather quit than be expected to do freaking research. Blaming the customer is just asinine. This is BIOWARE's fault, not their customers. Paying them extra because your server died, is just mind boggling to me.

[robertthebard]

EXACTLY! Any game that you need to research the servers on, is not a healthy or friendly game. I'd rather quit than be expected to do freaking research. Blaming the customer is just asinine. This is BIOWARE's fault, not their customers. Paying them extra because your server died, is just mind boggling to me.

 

It's a simple as logging in before you pay. It's not like they require you to have an active sub to log in, and if you left, you left for a reason. It's asinine to blame BW for your unwillingness to take x amount of time logging in to see what you'd be getting in to. I'm wishing I could send the OP an email selling some ocean front property in Colorado though. He's in to buying things sight unseen, so I'll be paid and gone before he figures it out.

[TUXs]

It's a simple as logging in before you pay. It's not like they require you to have an active sub to log in, and if you left, you left for a reason. It's asinine to blame BW for your unwillingness to take x amount of time logging in to see what you'd be getting in to. I'm wishing I could send the OP an email selling some ocean front property in Colorado though. He's in to buying things sight unseen, so I'll be paid and gone before he figures it out.

You're free to think that all you like Bob. I think that it's absolutely ludicrous.

 

Your comparison isn't even close to accurate either - this is a freaking video game Bob...it's nothing like investing in property or anything physical...it's merely entertainment, like a movie. Your insult to the OPs intelligence also shows just how pathetic your argument is.

 

And of course it's fair to blame Bioware. They know the servers state. They know the situation they're putting their customers in. But they seem content with their $15 screw job, so I absolutely hold them accountable.

[Rion_Starkiller]

It's a simple as logging in before you pay. It's not like they require you to have an active sub to log in, and if you left, you left for a reason. It's asinine to blame BW for your unwillingness to take x amount of time logging in to see what you'd be getting in to. I'm wishing I could send the OP an email selling some ocean front property in Colorado though. He's in to buying things sight unseen, so I'll be paid and gone before he figures it out.

 

Hindsight 20/20 and all that.

 

How is resubbing buying something sight unseen? He obviously used to like the game, or he wouldn't be coming back. Not everyone leaves the game in anger/ frustration.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Rion_Starkiller

[robertthebard]

You're free to think that all you like Bob. I think that it's absolutely ludicrous.

 

Your comparison isn't even close to accurate either - this is a freaking video game Bob...it's nothing like investing in property or anything physical...it's merely entertainment, like a movie. Your insult to the OPs intelligence also shows just how pathetic your argument is.

 

And of course it's fair to blame Bioware. They know the servers state. They know the situation they're putting their customers in. But they seem content with their $15 screw job, so I absolutely hold them accountable.

 

Exactly, and if you don't want to spend money transferring, and you left due to server population, you'd be serving your wallet well to log in and see before you pay. Problem solved. It really is that simple.

[TUXs]

Exactly, and if you don't want to spend money transferring, and you left due to server population, you'd be serving your wallet well to log in and see before you pay. Problem solved. It really is that simple.

Who left because of server population? And even if someone logs in to confirm they have a dead server, how exactly does that help the game Bob? Do you think that player is more or less likely to sub once they see their server, and seemingly the game, is dead? What benefit is there to seeing dead servers?

[UmbralSpirit]

the forums are full of toxic trolls

 

Why didst thou call me forth mortal!

[robertthebard]

Who left because of server population? And even if someone logs in to confirm they have a dead server, how exactly does that help the game Bob? Do you think that player is more or less likely to sub once they see their server, and seemingly the game, is dead? What benefit is there to seeing dead servers?

 

We don't get hyperbolic thread titles about being extorted into paying a sub? We don't have people researching, to see if they want to play for the first time seeing what kind of people we have posting threads?

 

All of this has been beaten to death before, but what happens if we get a megaserver, and player b still can't a pvp queue pop in less than five minutes? Do we get even more "last nail in the coffin" threads? I believe we've both been in at least one of those already. I've seen claims of people bailing because it's too easy? Will the megaserver fix that? There will certainly be a larger population, but I don't see how that's going to help someone that believes the game's too easy.

 

Some people prefer their servers the way they are, less competition for quest nodes, or gathering nodes etc. Others could care less about FPs and Ops, preferring to roll 100 alts to play the base game over and over. Others have played everything there is to play, and done everything they've wanted to do, and moved on to the next "big thing", some will return with new content, be here a week or so, then poof, gone again, because they've done everything again...

[Bristol]

Why didst thou call me forth mortal!

 

Sorry for disturbing your slumber oh great and wondrous one...nothing to see here...

[Transcendent]

Thank you for linking the definition of clickbait. However, the title isn't clickbait.

 

Well, I wandered into this thread due to the wording of "extortion" (which has been defined for you many times) expecting to see a link to a video of BioWare devs going around someones house and holding a returning player at the threat of menace. That is the very definition of clickbait.

 

Perhaps you meant clickjacking? That is generally the method involved to generate revenue without the user realising what is happening.

 

Like I said previously, words have meanings. Attempting to argue otherwise is an exercise in futility.

[Khevar]

Thank you for linking the definition of clickbait. However, the title isn't clickbait.

I'm with Transcendent on this one.

 

Extortion is a highly charged word. The OP used it to get people to read the post. It fits the definition of clickbait that was quoted to you.

[Rion_Starkiller]

It could be clickbait, or it could be that he was angry and so exaggerated by calling it extortion. Edited October 4, 2016 by Rion_Starkiller

[TUXs]

It could be clickbait, or it could be that he was angry and so exaggerated by calling it extortion.

Exactly. He wanted people to read it, headlines matter.

[Exly]

Exactly. He wanted people to read it, headlines matter.

 

Yup. The people that are pointing to things like improper word usage are doing so in an obvious attempt to derail the thread and discredit the op. Personally I don't care if someone uses the wrong word in order to attract attention to their post. What's more important to me is the context of the actual post, and in this case I think that the op did a good job of describing their issue in a way that most reasonable people could understand if taken in context.

[Khevar]

Yup. The people that are pointing to things like improper word usage are doing so in an obvious attempt to derail the thread and discredit the op.

Not sure if you're trying to lump me in with this.

 

It is not my purpose to discredit the OP.

 

I will say that I'm personally not fond of hyperbole and exaggeration when trying to discuss something important. Reason being that it distracts from the actual point someone is trying to make. It's too easy for a conversation to derail.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Khevar

[Bruticis]

Exactly. He wanted people to read it, headlines matter.

 

Someone could also douse themselves in gasoline and light a match to get attention. They likely aren't going to get the right kind of attention or help they're seeking. With the vitriol the gang spreads on this forum, the devs likely skip right past absurd titles like this one.

[TUXs]

Someone could also douse themselves in gasoline and light a match to get attention. They likely aren't going to get the right kind of attention or help they're seeking. With the vitriol the gang spreads on this forum, the devs likely skip right past absurd titles like this one.

The only thing "absurd" is your disgusting comparison.