Does it get better?

[kjarahz]

So I rolled a tank to do Flashpoints etc. I generally am a tank so I understand the usual pitfalls.

 

However at 21 I seem to be a bit lack luster.

 

Will I get better or is it just not the tank for me?

 

Any recommendations. AOE threat is non-existent and single target is fine I suppose having to use taunt a lot however. It seems like my DPS output is not very good either. Quite stumped and feel like I've put to much time into a toon that just isn't correct for me.

 

Thoughts?

[LordTyraxus]

Things get a lot better as you level - at 41 now and after alternatively loving and hating my dear Jugger through the levels I am now smitten.

 

Its a cliche but like all tanks he is gear dependent - the healing companion makes a big difference as well.

 

If you are levelling and not enjoying it, it probably means you need to update your gear.

 

I was in your shoes and all I wanted to hear was - it gets better.

 

Well.........it gets better, a lot better!

[ViskarNogame]

So I rolled a tank to do Flashpoints etc. I generally am a tank so I understand the usual pitfalls.

 

However at 21 I seem to be a bit lack luster.

 

Will I get better or is it just not the tank for me?

 

Any recommendations. AOE threat is non-existent and single target is fine I suppose having to use taunt a lot however. It seems like my DPS output is not very good either. Quite stumped and feel like I've put to much time into a toon that just isn't correct for me.

 

Thoughts?

 

To be a tank, you can't be lazy. I'm assuming you played WoW, or maybe even EQ2 where they made AE threat easy as well.

 

If there is four mobs - Hit four mobs. Why not tab target and beat on all of them? Even at level 12 I could hold agro on a couple of a 4 pack (Before we get tanking stance) but now, nothing ever even leaves my site.

 

You shouldn't need a bunch of "Hits 4 targets" abilities to hold a mob. Also, my DPS is very high, so I think maybe you and the Juggernaut just don't mesh. Maybe BH is more for you. Juggernaut requires you to know you abilities, and use them. BH Requires you to maintain a low heat index so it disperses quickly. So if you have to think before you act, BH is good because the heat has already let itself vent.

[Mosthatred]

Greetings,

It does get better, when at mid 20s I considered rolling a different class as well. I'm now 39 and enjoy it greatly. I started to become dependent on Quinn's heals, so I swapped to Jaesa as soon as I got her to speed things up. Some prefer the DPS and channeling while others prefer to end a (longer) fight at full health.

 

I'm glad I continued with the Immortal Jugg.

 

To the poster above me and your 'go play BH, etc' - have some self control and don't post your non-sense - no one has any belief you have a deeper understanding of the class or abilities.

[Sudgolf]

I have found it tedious at times. Im lvl 25 and recently geared my Vette companion to the same sort of lvl gear as me. Now i can take on larger groups as they are going down quicker. Just keep at it. Grind through the boring stuff and mix up the questing with a flashpoint here and there.

 

Ive found that being in an active guild helps. My Guild, <Sith Lords> on Kai-Kun is very active with PvP which is a great way to gain credits and Exp, especially the daily quests. I would suggest joining an active guild as you will have opportunities to do group activities and tank

[Wodaz]

Yes it does, but as a lvl 50 Juggy I still find it hard to keep aggro long enough to for my taunt cooldowns to come back around. Definitely can take a beating, but DPS is still lack luster, imho, especially in PvP. Edited December 28, 2011 by Wodaz

[Angerd]

PVP i find it a bit brutal... but for tanking flashpoints I have no issues at level 31. Its just not a simple game like others (WoW) have become. You may actually have to mark targets for DPS to focus. In fact we go through and 3 man flashpoints with only my pet as a healer for most everything. Hang in there, it is just a matter of practice and using what you have.

 

I would like to the add that the game does seem somewhat gear dependent. I rarely use my taunt, except for that stray ad that's off to the side. If you're geared with remotely current gear, your smash, and tabbing through single target abilities should be enough to hold threat. Again, this is only at level 31 right now.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Angerd

[metaIsaber]

Yes it gets better. At early lvl 20s, pvp sucks for the jug. When you get Force Choke, Force Throw, Smash no longer requires rage and immunity on force charge, it gets a lot better, but you won't see those till later in 20s. I'm at lvl 29 and love it now.

[VRBW]

No, it doesn't get better, but your attitude to the game changes.

 

Tanking is this game is essentially optional. It doesn't matter if the boss turns on your healer, because the boss doesn't hit that hard. I'm yet to come across a fight where they have. Red Reaper was a joke.

 

I enjoy the game, but it pretty much is the videogaming equivalent of the paralympics.

 

You can just ignore most of the mobs, and just tank one or two important ones.

 

And with Smash critting for 800 (with a bonus threat of 400 from Soresu form), you can't really be expected to hold aggro from an assassin AOE critting for 5,000. The guy may have been exaggerating, but he'd have to be exaggerating a LOT for my threat to be superior to his.

 

Juggernaught does terrible DPS, doesn't seem to take any less damage than Assassins (as a tank). Because it does terrible DPS, it also generates terrible threat. We get some nice cool downs, but I'm feeling pretty short changed.

 

PVP i find it a bit brutal... but for tanking flashpoints I have no issues at level 31. Its just not a simple game like others (WoW) have become. You may actually have to mark targets for DPS to focus.

 

I can't speak for Wow, but: Rift had significantly better aoe threat generation. Riftstalker tanking, post 1.6, was an easy mode joke. You literally had an aura that constantly generated damage, +bonus threat +more bonus threat.

 

And yet, tanking was significantly harder, because it was necessary. In Darkening Deeps, there were invisible mobs that would LITERALLY one shot your healer. And you could only see them from about 3-5 feet away. And they'd go active, and sneak past you if you didn't position yourself right.

 

You made a tiny mistake, that was it. Your party would wipe, unless you reacted very quickly.

 

Ask yourself: "Do I think Bioware can balance this game?"

Then ask yourself: "Do I want to continue playing juggernaught?" Use the answer from the first as your answer for the second.

[Wildfae]

The only problem that exists is when your team is not focusing correctly. This is the only time I have found any issue with Jugg, and its not an issue with Jugg. If you charge an elite that has 3 strongs and 2 weaks around him .. and your team ff's the elite, that trash pull becomes a pain in the ***. Because you cant keep hate on the toughest target meanwhile the trash is just beating your healers and dps up.

If you pull the elite and are focusing on him .. maybe taunt a strong off, while your group clears the trash, then you have NO problem. And there is not reason that elite should leave you and run off. It really seems to be that simple. If your group is totally unorganized and just AOE'ing like crazy at the beginning of a battle, you are asking for a wipe.

[Khoryphos]

The only problem that exists is when your team is not focusing correctly. This is the only time I have found any issue with Jugg, and its not an issue with Jugg. If you charge an elite that has 3 strongs and 2 weaks around him .. and your team ff's the elite, that trash pull becomes a pain in the ***. Because you cant keep hate on the toughest target meanwhile the trash is just beating your healers and dps up.

If you pull the elite and are focusing on him .. maybe taunt a strong off, while your group clears the trash, then you have NO problem. And there is not reason that elite should leave you and run off. It really seems to be that simple. If your group is totally unorganized and just AOE'ing like crazy at the beginning of a battle, you are asking for a wipe.

 

 

This has been my biggest problem. A lot of players like to open with AOE's on a group. Before level 30 all you have for AOE is smash which is terribly insufficient for building threat. Trying to ask the group to politely not do that or give you a few seconds leads to mixed results. I'm looking forward to getting my AOE taunt next level and sweeping strikes at 32.

[Noth]

This has been my biggest problem. A lot of players like to open with AOE's on a group. Before level 30 all you have for AOE is smash which is terribly insufficient for building threat. Trying to ask the group to politely not do that or give you a few seconds leads to mixed results. I'm looking forward to getting my AOE taunt next level and sweeping strikes at 32.

 

Sweeping strikes is nice if you can keep everything grouped. It's never that easy though. Where other tanks can spam more AoE to hold threat in aoe spamm the jugg can't. This leads to slower clears of trash which can really slow down the completion of the flashpoint.

[Baizak]

Once you get sweeping strikes and your AOE taunt it gets much easier to hold group agro. It still takes effective communication, spacial awareness, movement and focus fire to manage it. You just cant be lazy. The juggernaut is the thinking mans tank.

 

The tank calls the shots in any group scenario so if you have DPS not doing what they should do to keep the agro on you, call them out for it. So as long as you are giving instructions to the group before a pull you should not run into too many problems.

[kjarahz]

I'm really torn.

 

Main issue is I have a 43 Sorc. and I played through obviously another Sith storyline on the Warrior.

 

If I have to reroll an Assassin I will be really getting the same content as my Sorc. which as a note has seen most of the story at this point.

 

I feel the playstyle is just not matching perhaps. I really like the "Paladin" even as of current. I don't mind tab targeting but when runs have people 2-5 levels above me I can't use my taunt enough it's not really fair honestly.

 

This isn't me saying "It's to hard" I believe i'm wondering if the toolkit gets better and if I can do any DPS at all cause my Sorc easily does 250K+ in PVP. I break 75K sometimes now...

 

I understand i'm support but solo gameplay is really lacking because of my output currently.

 

What are my options. Will an Assassin fit my play better? Better DPS output perhaps more fun and AOE?

 

Thanks again all.

[DiLune]

Someone needs to start a Sith Warrior Youtube project "It Gets Better."

 

That would be freaking hilarious. "I know you just want to follow the path of the darkside, and right now you're having a tough time coping with all those other classes outshining you...but it gets better."

[Lord_Itharius]

Juggs are significantly better after lvl 40ish. Speaking on behalf of vengeance, the dps spec, it does huge amounts of dps at max level. I consistently crit for 2000+ with impale/shatter, and they constantly refresh my ravage cooldown, which hits for around 4000 over 3 seconds. I'm actually having aggro problems because of it :-X Edited December 28, 2011 by Lord_Itharius

[Noth]

Juggs are significantly better after lvl 40ish. Speaking on behalf of vengeance, the dps spec, it does huge amounts of dps at max level. I consistently crit for 2000+ with impale/shatter, and they constantly refresh my ravage cooldown, which hits for around 4000 over 3 seconds. I'm actually having aggro problems because of it :-X

 

Immortal I've hit for 3k and 2k with scream and crushing blow. It's actually not that huge of a damage boost above the tank spec. Only becoming really noticeable on mobs with large health pools. I was even able to keep near the same kill speed as tank spec in dps gear and shii-cho as the dps in the last Operation I was in.

[Lord_Itharius]

Immortal I've hit for 3k and 2k with scream and crushing blow. It's actually not that huge of a damage boost above the tank spec. Only becoming really noticeable on mobs with large health pools. I was even able to keep near the same kill speed as tank spec in dps gear and shii-cho as the dps in the last Operation I was in.

 

I can guarantee you that you weren't able to keep up a decent dps rotation in shii-cho form as immortal spec. You would have pitiful rage generation and your main rage dump would have to be vicious strike, which does terrible damage. And the numbers aren't so important as is the frequency of your abilities. I'm able to use impale, shatter, and force scream whenever they come off cooldown, and ravage gets refreshed with impale/shatter blows, which does huge damage output for free and fits smack in between sundering assault cooldowns.

 

Immortal spec will do almost competitive dps in lower quality gear situations because it has huge amounts of rage generation from taking damage, same as in WoW with feral druid tanks. At cataclysm launch he did about 80% the dps of dedicated dps classes when I started heroic 85 instances. The DPS classes will pull away from tanks in regards to dps as both roles get better gear because tanks will only get more dps from primary stats (survivability secondary stats), while dps classes will upgrade their primary stats as well as secondary dps stats.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Lord_Itharius

[Noth]

I can guarantee you that you weren't able to keep up a decent dps rotation in shii-cho form as immortal spec. You would have pitiful rage generation and your main rage dump would have to be vicious strike, which does terrible damage. And the numbers aren't so important as is the frequency of your abilities. I'm able to use impale, shatter, and force scream whenever they come off cooldown, and ravage gets refreshed with impale/shatter blows, which does huge damage output for free and fits smack in between sundering assault cooldowns.

 

Immortal spec will do almost competitive dps in lower quality gear situations because it has huge amounts of rage generation from taking damage, same as in WoW with feral druid tanks. At cataclysm launch he did about 80% the dps of dedicated dps classes when I started heroic 85 instances. The DPS classes will pull away from tanks in regards to dps as both roles get better gear.

 

Yet I did keep up in killing speed. And did not feel rage starved. I did have to hit Viscous strike quite often, but in most fights outside of bosses the dps loss is minimal. I leveled vengeance and spent a good portion of my life at 50 as vengeance. I was absolutely shocked at how little actual damage I lost switching to immortal.

[vanderin]

Wow made people lazy and not work together. I am glad that threat is not easy mode and requires some dedication and skill to do. But I concur with the above posters in that once you get sweeping strikes and the AE taunt it gets easy....

 

In a group make sure that the group mates are alpha striking your mob if Strong or higher...below that just let them AE the packs while you take on the strong/elite/champion mob yourself.-

[AlistairC]

My only problem with the Juggernaut is within the game as a whole.

 

Anyway, I like the warrior classes and when I figured that the SW would be like the wow-warrior, but with more tools (too few in the right places however. Lacking defensive tools and got 0 ranged CCs and 1 non-self defeating CCs for DPS Juggernauts) I was very pleased.

 

I know exactly what I wanna do to maintain aggro against a group of ranged attack enemies, but the game limits me in the silly animation lock-up thing. It is so very frustrating to not be able to perform an ability just because I deflected/parried or happend to mash the buttons. It removes the ability to perform faster and better.

 

Otherwise, its what I expected from a melee class. Slow starter and you die more often than you'd like. Basically vanilla WoWs warrior, but with alot more fun in it.