SWTOR is too easy now!!!

[americanaussie]

I assume you found it difficult prior to 4.0 then?

 

Look at it like this...you have a built in difficulty slider with the companion. Your choice to use them or not, is solely in your hands. If you're so good that you're finding it "easy", dismiss your companion. I play SWTOR to relax and enjoy myself...when I want something challenging I do a HM/NiM Operation or I PvP as a Pub...you should try those options.

 

I'm still wondering how they found that kotfe helps them to level to level 10 faster.

[Icykill_]

I agree.

 

I believe they are dumbing it down even more

[Deewe]

Look at it like this...you have a built in difficulty slider with the companion. Your choice to use them or not, is solely in your hands. If you're so good that you're finding it "easy", dismiss your companion.

Interesting enough, during beta many of us were concerned as playing solo forced us to use companions.

 

We asked for a way to mitigate this issue and there we have it 5 years later: a game so easy we don't need companions anymore IF we want a decent challenge.

[TUXs]

Interesting enough, during beta many of us were concerned as playing solo forced us to use companions.

 

We asked for a way to mitigate this issue and there we have it 5 years later: a game so easy we don't need companions anymore IF we want a decent challenge.

Prior to 4.0, everything, except the most recent content, was far easier than anything is now. Prior to level sync, I literally could NOT die in a Voss Heroic because the NPCs couldn't even hit me. The same is not true today.

 

Heroics on the starting planets are easy, I agree, but they present a helluva lot more challenge than they did prior to 4.0. Literally 95+% of the content, prior to 4.0, was so easy that there was ZERO chance of dying, with or without a companion, because we had out-leveled it...that is not the case today. Could level sync use some tweaks? Sure...but not much imo.

[Transcendent]

Heroics on the starting planets are easy, I agree, but they present a helluva lot more challenge than they did prior to 4.0.

 

How so? Pre 4.0, spam basic attack to win. 4.0, spam basic attack to win. It gets a little bit more interesting on the higher level planets (such as Voss) and there is more challenge there now.

 

Well there is somewhat of an XP gain difference between sub, pref, and F2P, IIRC, but I don't remember when it kicks in and how much it is.

 

There is a difference, sadly they've removed the page from this website allowing people to compare features, and the EA site that this one now links to is sparse on that information.

 

We all play at different skill levels but the longer we play, the baseline difficulty that challenges us lifts which is why it's a pity you can't increase difficulty. The problem with increasing it so that it's challenging for veterans is that you pull the entrance skill required beyond what they started with.

 

This post sums it up nicely though, on the aspect of levelling being "too easy". It's pretty much spot on. As a new free-to-play player, without a legacy and without access to things like legacy datacrons and guild bonuses / rested xp bonuses etc the levelling is probably close to where it needs to be to not feel like a massive grind. I'm fairly certain the game is now tuned to those players to make the levelling experience more enjoyable.

 

It would certainly make sense to me to have the game set that way, purely to entice new players to subscribe past the level 50 mark.

 

As veteran players who subscribe to the game, we probably overlook this aspect, that BioWare are trying to cater to the largest audience possible, as well as entice those new players to subscribe past level 50.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Transcendent

[TUXs]

How so? Pre 4.0, spam basic attack to win. 4.0, spam basic attack to win. It gets a little bit more interesting on the higher level planets (such as Voss) and there is more challenge there now.

True...but if I didn't attack pre-4.0, they couldn't kill me...today, they can...not fast, but they can.

[Tsetso]

True...but if I didn't attack pre-4.0, they couldn't kill me...today, they can...not fast, but they can.

 

Speaking of Voss, i almost rage quit at launch after dying for 2-3 hours trying to kill the avatar of Sel-makor.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Since when was leveling to 10 hard? I mean, I've been around for a couple of days, and I remember having to actually gear comps in order for them to work properly,

 

It was hard when my level 5 Consular (my very first char) died 10 times a day because I didn't have the right gear, didn't know the game was gear-based, and didn't know how to use abilities.

 

[Thoronmir]

It was hard when my level 5 Consular (my very first char) died 10 times a day because I didn't have the right gear, didn't know the game was gear-based, and didn't know how to use abilities.

 

True story:

 

I started SWTOR with a couple (let's call them Larry and Brenda) I met in LOTRO. We agreed we would level our main characters together. As a "stay at home dad" to my collection of partially-filled bourbon bottles, I had more free time to play, so I made some alts and tried out different aspects of the game. Thus, I was the first of our little coterie to gain any understanding of the equipment system ... particularly, moddable armor.

 

We completed the first mission to reward with moddable armor (one of the Heroics on Coruscant that awarded a moddable chest piece). Larry was distraught over how "lousy" the reward was for the effort it took. "It's worse than the crap I've been wearing since Tython," he whimpered and I almost let him vendor the dang thing. I took pity and explained the concept of hollow shells and mods. As we progressed, he still never quite caught on to the need to upgrade mods (I'm fairly certain he was using the mods we got him at level 12 as far as Alderaan). Thankfully, Brenda was a quick study and she became quartermaster for them both.

 

Another true story (on stuff getting easier):

 

Yes, it's true. Doing something even once makes doing it again easier. I remember trying my first case (circa 1993). I prepared for days. I was up all night revising my opening statement, witness outlines, issues for closing argument, etc. The courtroom for your first trial is an edifice of intimidation. Navigating that ordeal was among the most difficult two hours of my life (yeah, my Preparation to Trial Length ratio was about 10:1 ). I felt adrift, rudderless is poorly charted waters.

 

Today, for a case of similar scope and complexity, I neither need as much preparation nor labor under such a crushing weight of uncertainty. Most days, I can work sans notes and rely on having "been there and done that" over and over and over during the past couple of decades. I'm almost convinced that the game designers knew what they were doing when selecting, as the measure of a character's advancement and development, the word "Experience."

 

TLDR: NBC was right: "The More You Know ..."

[Eanelinea]

SWTOR was never hard. It was hard if your gear was lacking and you didn't gear your companion too, but even the raids weren't all that difficult, whether sm, hm or nim.

 

Maybe it's just me and I've played an MMO where you lost experience points for dying (no repairing armor). Or you had to run and go get your corpse and all their items from where you died. Or where it took doing raids in a certain order for you to be able to do the next set of raids and you had to have about 50-70 people just to down one boss.

 

So, swtor, was never hard or difficult. For that matter, neither was WoW. But this is coming from a chick who played Everquest for years BEFORE Guild Hall.

[LyraineAlei]

True story:

 

I started SWTOR with a couple (let's call them Larry and Brenda) I met in LOTRO. We agreed we would level our main characters together. As a "stay at home dad" to my collection of partially-filled bourbon bottles, I had more free time to play, so I made some alts and tried out different aspects of the game. Thus, I was the first of our little coterie to gain any understanding of the equipment system ... particularly, moddable armor.

 

We completed the first mission to reward with moddable armor (one of the Heroics on Coruscant that awarded a moddable chest piece). Larry was distraught over how "lousy" the reward was for the effort it took. "It's worse than the crap I've been wearing since Tython," he whimpered and I almost let him vendor the dang thing. I took pity and explained the concept of hollow shells and mods. As we progressed, he still never quite caught on to the need to upgrade mods (I'm fairly certain he was using the mods we got him at level 12 as far as Alderaan). Thankfully, Brenda was a quick study and she became quartermaster for them both.

 

Another true story (on stuff getting easier):

 

Yes, it's true. Doing something even once makes doing it again easier.<snipping anecdote that really is awesome> I'm almost convinced that the game designers knew what they were doing when selecting, as the measure of a character's advancement and development, the word "Experience."

 

TLDR: NBC was right: "The More You Know ..."

 

On my first character, I made the error of buying white armor on Tython. I learned not to do that because missions and quests reward better gear.

 

Tatooine on my first character, I realize that moddable armor I had some DK mods on was better than the gear given for most rewards, and to get the better mods, I needed to save planetary commendations.

 

Fifth character I learned that adaptable CM gear from the GTN (later, Collections once I realized that CCs were more useful there after unlocking appearance modification stuff and more character slots) was even better because I could make a good looking outfit and them mod it from the moment I got the armor pieces on (usually about level 12) so I ditched picking up armor pieces as the reward and instead went for Planetary Comms after missions.

 

First character finally reached level 50, finished Corellia, started Makeb. And then I learned that as a Healing spec'd Skill Tree follower, I should actually learn to heal Torian instead of just throwing Powertech-type gear I picked up as loot onto him (though it did work quite well while I sucked as a healer), and then I still died a lot trying to finish Imperial Side with the Platform Mesas before going to storm the palace or whatever and after going into the volcano lab/base place.

 

I took her to Section X at 53, died a lot, got EXP in fights, eventually (somehow) reached 55 and mowed the place down, went to Makeb and destroyed that guy (honestly, I still have no idea how I kept dying to him, since her I've not died when facing him, even without using the GSI probe when it was there), wrapped up the Makeb story (the Isotope droid thing was a pain, but I did eventually work it out by reading other people's complaints and advice on it) for Imperial side and then vowed to never touch Makeb on my (now) old laptop because even on Low graphics, Makeb crashed it.

Further anecdotal bits here:

 

I developed a lot of my leveling habits I use now during the first 12x EXP event (though those have also changed since then) of running every non-Heroic side quest until I hit (then level cap) 55, taking only commendation rewards for buying mods, and leveling up a Cybertechnician to mail mods around in the ugly Legacy StarFighter Gear sets. And slicing to buy stuff if I needed it, though my Biochemist did wonders for keeping the medpacks well stocked so I didn't spend much in credits for medpacks.

 

Then SoR went live, and I went on with the other stuff I'd been doing, running every non-Heroic quest along the way, running grey Heroics once a day for comms and credits (and in some cases, gear to rip mods from), making and buying mods, making medpacks.

 

And then KotFE happened. I leveled doing quests, PvP to level and try to get close to valor 40, Heroics for gear while accepting bits of gear for looks as quest rewards if I don't already have that full set for appearances.

 

Now during DvL, I've gotten into FPs while leveling, more PvP, GSF, and of course, questing, and heroics for gear until 65 when I just buy PvP gear for the set bonuses. And the LEveling shells.

 

 

Somewhere there was a fight I could not win, other than on Makeb, and now I cannot for the life of me remember what that fight was because I've now ran multiple characters through their stories and haven't since that first run on that class had trouble.

 

Too lazy to read: Thor's right, doing something once gets you EXP which makes doing it again even easier.

[Rolodome]

True story:

 

I started SWTOR with a couple (let's call them Larry and Brenda) I met in LOTRO. We agreed we would level our main characters together. As a "stay at home dad" to my collection of partially-filled bourbon bottles, I had more free time to play, so I made some alts and tried out different aspects of the game. Thus, I was the first of our little coterie to gain any understanding of the equipment system ... particularly, moddable armor.

 

We completed the first mission to reward with moddable armor (one of the Heroics on Coruscant that awarded a moddable chest piece). Larry was distraught over how "lousy" the reward was for the effort it took. "It's worse than the crap I've been wearing since Tython," he whimpered and I almost let him vendor the dang thing. I took pity and explained the concept of hollow shells and mods. As we progressed, he still never quite caught on to the need to upgrade mods (I'm fairly certain he was using the mods we got him at level 12 as far as Alderaan). Thankfully, Brenda was a quick study and she became quartermaster for them both.

 

Another true story (on stuff getting easier):

 

Yes, it's true. Doing something even once makes doing it again easier. I remember trying my first case (circa 1993). I prepared for days. I was up all night revising my opening statement, witness outlines, issues for closing argument, etc. The courtroom for your first trial is an edifice of intimidation. Navigating that ordeal was among the most difficult two hours of my life (yeah, my Preparation to Trial Length ratio was about 10:1 ). I felt adrift, rudderless is poorly charted waters.

 

Today, for a case of similar scope and complexity, I neither need as much preparation nor labor under such a crushing weight of uncertainty. Most days, I can work sans notes and rely on having "been there and done that" over and over and over during the past couple of decades. I'm almost convinced that the game designers knew what they were doing when selecting, as the measure of a character's advancement and development, the word "Experience."

 

TLDR: NBC was right: "The More You Know ..."

I remember the first time I played a streamlined, WoW-like MMO. Had to ask what a global cooldown is. Honestly didn't know. I barely knew what a rotation was either, much less how to execute one. First time I did a raid, I was mortified. My DPS was the worst of everyone there. It was like being on the baseball team of rejects as a kid, all over again.

 

Two years of dedicated play later, I was pulling DPS numbers in line with some of the top players in the entire game.

 

Now I join games like this one and the learning curve is a little easier each time. I still hate complex, rote rotations though. It's too much like school.

[ImmortalLowlife]

True story. I didn't get my first character to lvl 50 until AFTER RotHC was released (and it was out for a couple of months by then.) I got more "NOOB!" type comments and kicked out of more groups because I told people up front "this is my very first mmo, how do you.....?" THIS is the main reason I rarely do any content that requires a group to this day. Leveling my first set of characters was a FREAKING NIGHTMARE. My smuggler sat on Tatt for over a year, my agent got deleted out of frustration on Nar Shadda and I didn't make another one until after the companion changes, I've only rolled 2 troopers in 5 years (and one of em was for the DvL event), and I STILL had to get help from random players to finish EVERY story the first time. If it wasn't for the Star Wars ip, and the Bioware story telling, I'd have quit years ago. Actually.... I'd have never pre ordered and picked up the game to begin with.

 

Now I'm comfortable enough with all the classes to hold my own in a FP if I decide to do one. But where you saw "it was already easy" OP, I saw "F*** THIS, I'm just gonna play Kotor 1 & 2 on my Xbox for my old republic fix."

 

Now with the changes I get to actually enjoy the stories at a pace I can handle. I still die from time to time, but I haven't had a character I just couldn't play because his armor was flashing because it was so damaged and I'd already spent all my credits on buying the armor and couldn't afford to repair it. I get to play with my favorite companion who's almost always set in a healing stance. Through trial and error (my preferred method of learning btw) I've not only gotten better, but I've been able to offer advice and help others get better with actual advice that didn't contain the words "Look it up NOOB!" or "L2P!" I've played through lower level FP's with groups of new players without anyone screaming "ARRRRRRGGG SPACEBARRRRR!!!!" or Rage quitting because of a wipe on hammer station.

 

While I agree the final chapter 3 fights for the SW & SI should be instanced back up to lvl 50, leave everything else alone. It's fine as it is now.

[IanArgent]

True story. I didn't get my first character to lvl 50 until AFTER RotHC was released (and it was out for a couple of months by then.) I got more "NOOB!" type comments and kicked out of more groups because I told people up front "this is my very first mmo, how do you.....?" THIS is the main reason I rarely do any content that requires a group to this day. Leveling my first set of characters was a FREAKING NIGHTMARE. My smuggler sat on Tatt for over a year, my agent got deleted out of frustration on Nar Shadda and I didn't make another one until after the companion changes, I've only rolled 2 troopers in 5 years (and one of em was for the DvL event), and I STILL had to get help from random players to finish EVERY story the first time. If it wasn't for the Star Wars ip, and the Bioware story telling, I'd have quit years ago. Actually.... I'd have never pre ordered and picked up the game to begin with.

 

Now I'm comfortable enough with all the classes to hold my own in a FP if I decide to do one. But where you saw "it was already easy" OP, I saw "F*** THIS, I'm just gonna play Kotor 1 & 2 on my Xbox for my old republic fix."

 

Now with the changes I get to actually enjoy the stories at a pace I can handle. I still die from time to time, but I haven't had a character I just couldn't play because his armor was flashing because it was so damaged and I'd already spent all my credits on buying the armor and couldn't afford to repair it. I get to play with my favorite companion who's almost always set in a healing stance. Through trial and error (my preferred method of learning btw) I've not only gotten better, but I've been able to offer advice and help others get better with actual advice that didn't contain the words "Look it up NOOB!" or "L2P!" I've played through lower level FP's with groups of new players without anyone screaming "ARRRRRRGGG SPACEBARRRRR!!!!" or Rage quitting because of a wipe on hammer station.

 

While I agree the final chapter 3 fights for the SW & SI should be instanced back up to lvl 50, leave everything else alone. It's fine as it is now.

 

This right here is why I am good with the lowering of the skill floor. Because there needs to be new players.

[TUXs]

True story. I didn't get my first character to lvl 50 until AFTER RotHC was released (and it was out for a couple of months by then.) I got more "NOOB!" type comments and kicked out of more groups because I told people up front "this is my very first mmo, how do you.....?" THIS is the main reason I rarely do any content that requires a group to this day. Leveling my first set of characters was a FREAKING NIGHTMARE. My smuggler sat on Tatt for over a year, my agent got deleted out of frustration on Nar Shadda and I didn't make another one until after the companion changes, I've only rolled 2 troopers in 5 years (and one of em was for the DvL event), and I STILL had to get help from random players to finish EVERY story the first time. If it wasn't for the Star Wars ip, and the Bioware story telling, I'd have quit years ago. Actually.... I'd have never pre ordered and picked up the game to begin with.

 

Now I'm comfortable enough with all the classes to hold my own in a FP if I decide to do one. But where you saw "it was already easy" OP, I saw "F*** THIS, I'm just gonna play Kotor 1 & 2 on my Xbox for my old republic fix."

 

Now with the changes I get to actually enjoy the stories at a pace I can handle. I still die from time to time, but I haven't had a character I just couldn't play because his armor was flashing because it was so damaged and I'd already spent all my credits on buying the armor and couldn't afford to repair it. I get to play with my favorite companion who's almost always set in a healing stance. Through trial and error (my preferred method of learning btw) I've not only gotten better, but I've been able to offer advice and help others get better with actual advice that didn't contain the words "Look it up NOOB!" or "L2P!" I've played through lower level FP's with groups of new players without anyone screaming "ARRRRRRGGG SPACEBARRRRR!!!!" or Rage quitting because of a wipe on hammer station.

 

While I agree the final chapter 3 fights for the SW & SI should be instanced back up to lvl 50, leave everything else alone. It's fine as it is now.

I'm sorry you got those comments and were treated that way...it's unhealthy for those of us who enjoy this game to ever act like that...but...I admire that you were honest and I greatly appreciate the way you help new players now. THANK YOU for sticking around!!! We need more people to act like you. You're a perfect example of why I'm fine with leveling like it is - playing casually should be enjoyable, even if it is too "easy" for some, because it's not "easy" for everyone.

 

Unlike most MMOs, this game allows you great freedom tp select the difficulty you want - you can dismiss your companion, put them on passive, or limit the number of skills they use. Again, it's not a perfect system like it is now, but it sure as hell beats what we had prior to 4.0 imo.

[Vhaegrant]

As the title says, SWTOR is too easy now. Since the KOTFE expansion leveling is so easy that you can level up to lvl10 in 30 minutes or 1 hour, even if you only do your class story. The leveling is so easy that you don't need to do the planetary missions to lvl up fast, what a waste of some good mini stories.But the thing that bugs me most are the DAMN SUPER OP COMPANIONS!!

Now your companions have a lot more of life than you,more damage than you and they heal you for lots of HP so you never die and you don't need to use medpacks because,why use medpacks when you have a companion that heals you for the double or triple HP than a medpack??

I hope swtor changes this because I'm practically invincible with my OP companion XD

 

I'll leave out the seemingly obligatory 'SWTOR was always easy' comment.

 

Levelling is certainly quicker, but there's no reason to attribute levelling speed to difficulty.

Level scalling is a huge boon as it allows the vast majority of mission rewards and mob drops to stay relevant so it does not matter if you over level.

When I was playing through, as a completionist, I was always on the verge of turning missions grey. I think the lowest I was ever overlevelled after leaving the starter worlds was 5 levels, that made a huge difference.

 

There is also the issue of difficulty and grind. Grinding out levels and gear for the character and the companion does not add to difficulty it only adds to the time sink. This may have been fine in a less saturated market where everyone had lots of time to waste but nowadays not so much. SWTOR has made vast improvements with its time sink removing a lot of the travel time restrictions and the need to equip a variety of companions.

 

Companions have always had their issues. Maybe if you were unfortunate to pick a class that didn't get a healer until later levels you would struggle a little through the fights. Now that any companion can be set to healer role this isn't an issue, although I find ranged weapon companions make for better healers than melee based ones.

Also, pre-4.0, if you had spent the time to unlock the various companions across classes and unleash the full +500 presence buff companions were ridiculously overpowered on the early worlds, far more than they are now.

 

The biggest issue with setting difficulty in an MMO such as SWTOR is predictability. Every time you run through a world the mobs are laid out exactly the same. Flashpoints are the same every time you run them.

When you apply a level and gear system to this as long as you know a rotation and can hit the right values the game will never be challenging. There is no need to vary your attacks.

When you start running Operations for progression once you can clear it, it will only ever get easier as you collect the better drops and take on the muscle memory for the boss fights. I think most players whether they admit it to themselves or not are craving variation from the routine rather than running the same predictable content over and over and over again, each time getting easier and easier.

 

If only they had some way of playing against an opponent that was unpredictable... but unfortunately PvP exposes us to our own failings that we are not as L33t as we like to think and that there are people out there better at the game than we are. (Not to mention given gear differences and the ability to group up balance is a serious issue even in a basic PvP set up )

Edited September 30, 2016 by Vhaegrant

[Rolodome]

If only they had some way of playing against an opponent that was unpredictable... but unfortunately PvP exposes us to our own failings that we are not as L33t as we like to think and that there are people out there better at the game than we are. (Not to mention given gear differences and the ability to group up balance is a serious issue even in a basic PvP set up )

This hits on the crux of the matter for many, doesn't it? People want a sort of goldilocks experience... not too easy, not too hard. Juuuuust right.

 

I mean, say NPCs had complex, intelligent and adaptive AI... I think I would feel pretty worthless and insulted if I lost to one. It can be hard losing to other players. A computer that resembles a human in its programming would, I think, be even worse. Things like raid bosses work because they don't change from fight to fight, so the challenge is learning how to overcome what they do. If raid bosses were adaptive, most would probably quit after the first week or two and never look back.

 

So there's this sort of catch-22 conundrum going on where you don't want to bore people with NPC encounters and you do want to challenge them to maintain their attention, but you don't want to overwhelm them either. Which, I think, is why single-player games often have difficulty settings; nobody has the technology (that I know of) to design a system that matches player skill on the fly, without it being really obvious that the system is trying to adapt and at that point, the illusion of a static world is ruined anyway. Plus you hit the problem of being limited by your assets. I think of designs like in Saints Row 4 (which I think borrowed from GTA and others prior to it), where the "police" escalate in their efforts to take you down. But in Saints Row 4, you can reach a point with your character capabilities where the best that the game can throw at you is pretty easy to handle. So at that point, the escalation becomes a bit stilted and boredom sets in.

[Gokkus]

Are a lot of people unfamiliar with the word 'too'? OP said the game is too easy now. This says absolutely nothing about the level of difficulty he experienced beforehand, except that it was apparently less easy. So saying this game has always been easy or never been hard is not relevant to the discussion and has very little to do with what the OP said. Vanilla SWTOR was a great deal more difficult, that is simply a truth.

 

The discussion is about whether SWTOR is TOO easy now. Easy and hard are subjective, so without explanation, useless.

 

I agree that SWTOR is too easy because it prevents a lot of new players from properly learning the game. Something they do need when entering a FP or OP for instance. Furthermore it leads to less social behaviour because there is no need to ask for help anymore and Heroics and Champions can simply be soloed. Furthermore, it takes away the epic feeling new players could experience if bosses were actually a challenge, especially chapter 3 end bosses (the BH one is absolutely laughable).

[Rolodome]

I agree that SWTOR is too easy because it prevents a lot of new players from properly learning the game. Something they do need when entering a FP or OP for instance.

I disagree with this. I had no trouble learning the game and I played it mostly after these "making things easier" changes. I've seen this argument before and it seems to rest on the belief that if players are sufficiently challenged early on, then they will naturally learn what they need to learn and be better players in FPs and Ops.

 

But my experience says it's a lot more complicated than that... those who want more challenge will find a way to seek it out, so that they can hone their skills. And those who significantly struggle with more challenging content are not going to magically gain the ability to do it; they will either learn painfully because they're determined to learn, or they'll exit stage left and never come back. Better that the latter group already feels invested in the game before most of the challenge hits... that way they are more likely to stick around to power through the often painful learning process.

 

If you hit them hard ASAP, they're just going to be intimidated and leave. I raided with people like this for years because I was in a guild that started out very casual in our raiding goals and expectations. As we grew steadily more hardcore in our goals and expectations, many of our casual vets hit a distinct skill cap and no amount of instruction, encouragement, or frustrated outbursts were going to get them to be where we wanted them. Some of the people who suck in stuff like FPs and Ops simply aren't invested in improving, or they're too stubborn or (I hate to say it) too inept at MMOs to improve all that much.

 

Honestly, in terms of waking up your reflexes and getting you to make the most of what you have under pressure, I think PvP warzones is the best place for it. One of the issues with difficult leveling (a problem that warzones don't have) is that it costs you to experiment and die. You have to repair your gear, in some cases run back a long distance, etc. In PvP, you just respawn and try again. In PvP, you also are guaranteed to have teammates to back you up, which is not only more like FPs and Ops, but also takes some of the pressure off of you to be on your personal A-game 100% of the time.

 

Not to mention the fact that you can do FPs while leveling (and like PvP, it's optional). So you can get experience with that content directly, early.

 

The key here, really, is optional. Like I said, those who want it will seek it out one way or another.

[Shipwright]

I disagree with this. I had no trouble learning the game and I played it mostly after these "making things easier" changes. I've seen this argument before and it seems to rest on the belief that if players are sufficiently challenged early on, then they will naturally learn what they need to learn and be better players in FPs and Ops.

 

But my experience says it's a lot more complicated than that... those who want more challenge will find a way to seek it out, so that they can hone their skills. And those who significantly struggle with more challenging content are not going to magically gain the ability to do it; they will either learn painfully because they're determined to learn, or they'll exit stage left and never come back. Better that the latter group already feels invested in the game before most of the challenge hits... that way they are more likely to stick around to power through the often painful learning process.

 

If you hit them hard ASAP, they're just going to be intimidated and leave. I raided with people like this for years because I was in a guild that started out very casual in our raiding goals and expectations. As we grew steadily more hardcore in our goals and expectations, many of our casual vets hit a distinct skill cap and no amount of instruction, encouragement, or frustrated outbursts were going to get them to be where we wanted them. Some of the people who suck in stuff like FPs and Ops simply aren't invested in improving, or they're too stubborn or (I hate to say it) too inept at MMOs to improve all that much.

 

Honestly, in terms of waking up your reflexes and getting you to make the most of what you have under pressure, I think PvP warzones is the best place for it. One of the issues with difficult leveling (a problem that warzones don't have) is that it costs you to experiment and die. You have to repair your gear, in some cases run back a long distance, etc. In PvP, you just respawn and try again. In PvP, you also are guaranteed to have teammates to back you up, which is not only more like FPs and Ops, but also takes some of the pressure off of you to be on your personal A-game 100% of the time.

 

Not to mention the fact that you can do FPs while leveling (and like PvP, it's optional). So you can get experience with that content directly, early.

 

The key here, really, is optional. Like I said, those who want it will seek it out one way or another.

 

This is almost exactly what I have seen over the years.

[robertthebard]

Are a lot of people unfamiliar with the word 'too'? OP said the game is too easy now. This says absolutely nothing about the level of difficulty he experienced beforehand, except that it was apparently less easy. So saying this game has always been easy or never been hard is not relevant to the discussion and has very little to do with what the OP said. Vanilla SWTOR was a great deal more difficult, that is simply a truth.

 

The discussion is about whether SWTOR is TOO easy now. Easy and hard are subjective, so without explanation, useless.

 

I agree that SWTOR is too easy because it prevents a lot of new players from properly learning the game. Something they do need when entering a FP or OP for instance. Furthermore it leads to less social behaviour because there is no need to ask for help anymore and Heroics and Champions can simply be soloed. Furthermore, it takes away the epic feeling new players could experience if bosses were actually a challenge, especially chapter 3 end bosses (the BH one is absolutely laughable).

 

The bolded would be a valid argument to support "too easy", if only we didn't have all those threads about how some people suck at playing their class well before it got "dumbed down".

[IanArgent]

The bolded would be a valid argument to support "too easy", if only we didn't have all those threads about how some people suck at playing their class well before it got "dumbed down".

 

People will always be poor at the game. Some people (most, probably) can up their game. Story content is the "ground floor" of the game, it's where people come inm. That is why it should be the easiest and least challenging part of the game.

 

And because some people will never be willing, or able, to up their game to the level required for advanced/optional/non-story content (PvP, FP, Ops, TEC/HSF), the entire single-player "storyline" experience should have a fairly flat and linear difficulty curve. The "unskilled/unwilling" pay the same subscription rates as anyone else.

[robertthebard]

People will always be poor at the game. Some people (most, probably) can up their game. Story content is the "ground floor" of the game, it's where people come inm. That is why it should be the easiest and least challenging part of the game.

 

And because some people will never be willing, or able, to up their game to the level required for advanced/optional/non-story content (PvP, FP, Ops, TEC/HSF), the entire single-player "storyline" experience should have a fairly flat and linear difficulty curve. The "unskilled/unwilling" pay the same subscription rates as anyone else.

 

I remember when "I can replace you with a comp" was just about the gravest insult you could hear, and it was used in FPs a lot. Hell, I've even used it myself, on occasion. There was no mystical point in time to point at and say "the game's too easy because people aren't learning their classes", unless we want to go with either beta or at launch? From what I understand, having not been here at launch, the game was a bit harder back then, and yet, I'd bet we can still find name and shame threads about people needing to "L2P".

 

I also believe that some people simply don't care about upping their game. They're playing at a level that satisfies them, and that's all they're worried about. Which is all good, until they hit the queue for a NiM Op. My philosophy is "Don't play beyond your comfort zone, and you won't have any problems".

[TUXs]

But my experience says it's a lot more complicated than that... those who want more challenge will find a way to seek it out, so that they can hone their skills. And those who significantly struggle with more challenging content are not going to magically gain the ability to do it; they will either learn painfully because they're determined to learn, or they'll exit stage left and never come back. Better that the latter group already feels invested in the game before most of the challenge hits... that way they are more likely to stick around to power through the often painful learning process.

 

The key here, really, is optional. Like I said, those who want it will seek it out one way or another.

GREAT replies Rolodome! I agree 100% with everything you're saying here, not just in this reply. You are spot freaking on!!!

[Andryah]

I disagree with this. I had no trouble learning the game and I played it mostly after these "making things easier" changes. I've seen this argument before and it seems to rest on the belief that if players are sufficiently challenged early on, then they will naturally learn what they need to learn and be better players in FPs and Ops.

 

But my experience says it's a lot more complicated than that... those who want more challenge will find a way to seek it out, so that they can hone their skills. And those who significantly struggle with more challenging content are not going to magically gain the ability to do it; they will either learn painfully because they're determined to learn, or they'll exit stage left and never come back. Better that the latter group already feels invested in the game before most of the challenge hits... that way they are more likely to stick around to power through the often painful learning process.

 

^^ Nailed it, in my view.

 

Players seem to forget that this is an MMO, with many players and many different player interests, skills, and desires. Folks need to stop demanding that a game be either "dumbed down" OR "smartened up" so that it magically matches their preferred play style the moment they log in. MMOs are meant for the masses these days, and it is incumbent on the player to adapt to the content that is presented and how it is presented. Learn-2-dial_in your play experience to match your needs/wants rather then demanding the game be custom tuned for you and the 4 other people that like "XYZ game design idea".

Edited September 30, 2016 by Andryah