Dark Vs. Light Packs in the Cartel Market

[Caelrie]

Yeah...you kinda do now, that is why they reduced the credits for heroics, because to many credits were influxing the game. Did you not watch the livestream? They said themselves. They reduced it because people were getting to much money.

 

Doing heroics solo isn't the best way to make money. You get three or four times the payout if you do them in a group, and that was untouched by the nerf.

[Rolodome]

How do we know.

 

I generally take people at their word.

 

If he did not mean it literally, then he was either deliberately misleading.. or being deliberately hyperbolic just for the drama IMO. It does not promote accurate discussion, it misleads and obfuscates. Which is why I will comment on it when I see it, regardless who says it and why.

You're latching onto an argument that I'm not really making. My point was that making it into a thing about him pushing a narrative is silly. Claiming something to be hyperbolic or misleading is another thing entirely. You can do the latter without doing the former.

 

Let me make it simple:

The narrative thing is an attack on credibility (undermining the argument by painting him as a non-credible source)

Claiming something to be hyperbolic or misleading is an attack on argumentation (undermining the argument by pointing out its flaws)

 

The first one, in this instance, is an underhanded tactic and does not prioritize truth (it prioritizes posturing and devaluing future arguments that the person makes, regardless of their truth value).

The second one, in this instance, is fine. It prioritizes truth.

[Lakemine]

I'm doing it mostly for the companion. I want a Chiss Jedi, because I'm a Chiss Jedi

 

Along the way I got both light and dark tunings, and 2 black/black dyes, so it's been worth it.

 

Same...though sadly as of right now and most likely we will not get her, but the Zabrak, Darkside is winning atm 51%-49% so....don't hold your breath.

 

Also....I have 4 black-black dyes on name save throw away toons, I have not opened any of the DvL boxes because I KNOW I will not get anything like that, but silver armor sets and silver speeders. Whats sad though....is the people who like this event got good things in the packs and the people who don't like this event are the ones who already have most things (not everything) unlocked and wanted those last few things that cost 200+ million or are not on the GTN or who got silver items. Interesting...very interesting...

[DarthDymond]

Well, the items in the DvL Packs were from the CM originally (except for the two new Tunings, which I'm happy will now be available on the GTN), so I have no problem with them being available on the CM again in this new 'wrapping'. It's not like they're putting Wings of the Architect or PVP Ranked rewards from previous seasons in them or anything like that.

 

As long as we're still getting the rewards as promised for the tiers, I don't mind these new CM options existing alongside them.

[Andryah]

You're latching onto an argument that I'm not really making. My point was that making it into a thing about him pushing a narrative is silly. Claiming something to be hyperbolic or misleading is another thing entirely. You can do the latter without doing the former.

 

Let me make it simple:

The narrative thing is an attack on credibility (undermining the argument by painting him as a non-credible source)

Claiming something to be hyperbolic or misleading is an attack on argumentation (undermining the argument by pointing out its flaws)

 

The first one, in this instance, is an underhanded tactic and does not prioritize truth (it prioritizes posturing and devaluing future arguments that the person makes, regardless of their truth value).

The second one, in this instance, is fine. It prioritizes truth.

 

He made an absolute statement, that was not correct. I simply pointed out that he was wrong, and that I understand his narrative does not go well with him being wrong on the point. I could have just called him a liar I guess, but I try to avoid that.... since I cannot read his mind.. he may actually believe what he said, and what he said IS consistent with his negative narrative about the game. His narrative, not mine.

 

That's the problem with people making absolute statements. It creates needless confusion.

 

Are we going to debate this some more.. or can we move on? I have absolutely no issue with someone pointing out something I said that was not factual, and in the context of my personal narrative about the game (which is generally neutral-2-positive).

Edited July 12, 2016 by Andryah

[Lakemine]

I'm not surprised, but I am glad since now I can pick up the rest of the sets I've got parts of off the GTN. Eventually.

 

I do not think this is a slap to the face, but I do think this was a cheap/profitable/easy/profitable/profitable solution to the whole BoP thing. This could help bring down some armor set/vanity item prices, which could -doubtfully- help reduce the sting of the Heroics Nerf, since stuff would be less expensive... Ish.

 

Sadly "less" expensive is 200 million to 100 million, still expensive.

[Rolodome]

He made an absolute statement, that was not correct. I simply pointed out that he was wrong, and that I understand his narrative does not go well with him being wrong on the point. I could have just called him a liar I guess, but I try to avoid that.... since I cannot read his mind.. he may actually believe what he said, and what he said IS consistent with his negative narrative about the game. His narrative, not mine.

 

That's the problem with people making absolute statements. It creates needless confusion.

 

Are we going to debate this some more.. or can we move on?

I will let it go. I've made my point.

[squirrelballz]

Why am I not surprised?

 

Before some one tells me that I shouldn't say that

 

(1) The rewards were supposed to be given if you did the event since they decided they wanted us to redo all the stupid content that we have done over the 5 years we have been here.

(Don't go there- Yea yea I know for new players they don't have the achievements)

 

(2) So people actually started doing the content to get the rewards and then they decide to sell the packs that you get as a reward. I used to support these guys but not anymore. They do one thing and change their mind and then add it into the cartel shop. Why not just do that in the first place and not say we going to give you reward. Just forget the reward since you don't care about your customers anyways.

 

(3) Companion. Please if you really think they haven't already decided on what companion we are getting you are really trusting. Some how I doubt we will get the truth from them anyways on the companion. They will give us the one they have already decided on.

 

(4) Before you say it if you are unhappy leave, well we are already talking about leaving.

 

(5) I do believe they are trying to run the game into the ground. Maybe that is a good thing and maybe that would be a way for Disney to cancel their contract.

 

Have a good day.

 

I definitely agree with you.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Only the studio can answer that. But I take them at their word that there were issues with adding BoL to collections.. as I have seen plenty of crazy bugs with BoL items.

 

Now.. could they have worked it out so that the D/L packs (before you open them) are BoL? Probably, but neither you nor I have any idea what issues are involved with that. We simply don't know. Hence, rampant speculation, anger, and condemnation in the absence of facts.

 

BoL is nice.. as far as it goes in this game.. but it's got bugs that need to get hammered flat IMO.

 

Yes but we are entitled to that rampant speculation etc. especially when they went as far as to mention an issue with the items having a BoL for collections issue and conveniently neglect mentioning anything about the packs at all.

 

At the very least then they are guilty of piss poor communication which can lead to people like me jumping on them over such assumptions.

 

In regards to their motivation on the whole BoP issue I like to refer to this:

 

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

[HuaRya]

Disney will not be your savior by any means. Any game made with their supervision will not be playable for anyone over the mental age of 8 years old.

 

From looking at the sparse GTN it looks like a good portion of "whales" didn't buy their customary 3-5 Hypercrates probably leading to EA telling them they didn't cover last months Vig and low and behold a new pack arrives in half the time other packs have been generated (around 3.5 weeks)

[Andryah]

At the very least then they are guilty of piss poor communication which can lead to people like me jumping on them over such assumptions.

 

We ALL really should be used to this by now.

 

I'm NOT suggesting that we should like it, only that it is what it is.. and has been for years. I can't get too worked up though about things that are beyond my control and do not directly affect my game play.

 

Good communications generally creates good will, but people are so jaded over their communications years in... I don't think they can dig out of that hole.. and I bet they don't think so either. Besides.. one persons idea of good communications will be another persons purpose-2-rage. No pleasing everyone.

 

And let's not pretend that anyone needs much, if any, justification to jump on their neck.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Andryah

[Lakemine]

I did not know this. You could unlock an armour set in 4.0 by equipping a piece on different characters?

Nor did I see Eric say this or that it would be fixed - can you link that up?

 

I know they had an issue with crystals not unlocking at all ( and possibly other items ) but I missed this bit.

 

Here are the patch notes for 4.0 http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/10202015/game-update-4.0-knights-fallen-empire-early-access under the Cartel Market heading is specifically: "The number of Outfit pieces that you have unlocked is displayed on the set’s Collections icon. " That means you could have some pieces on one character and the missing pieces on another character and BOOM whole set unlocked. It worked because I tested it the day after, but....it broke between 4.1 and 4.4 because I retested it 2 days before 4.5 and the launch of DvL event due to a question in the fourm with 220+ pages and found it broken.

 

Here is the reward blog, http://www.swtor.com/blog/dark-vs.-light-event-and-rewards-blog specifically: "A few extra details on the packs -the armor sets come in three separate boxes, Upper Body, Lower Body, and Supplementary. Each item that you earn from a Force-Bound Dark vs. Light Pack is Bind on Pickup, so they cannot be sold. However, these items do unlock in collections similar to other pack items." And this is going off of 4.0 none broken information.

 

Which is why a lot of people were calling Eric a lair when he said you could unlock them in collections even if they are on different characters, but....I just took it as he or most likely the devs, have not been playing or maybe just that specific part of the game since then and didn't know it had broke. Like I said, even I had not know it had broken till 2 days before it launched, as even I was going off of 4.0 information and things I had tested.

 

Hopefully I do this right....Tait said in the fourms (and its still on the first page of the dev tracker: http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php)

 

06.29.2016 , 01:45 PM | #12 This is the last staff post in this thread.

Report Post Quote

 

 

 

Hey folks,

 

The items SHOULD be unlocking in Collections, like the blog states. We are investigating the issue currently.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Tait "pariahloki" Watson

Follow us on Twitter @SWTOR | Like us on Facebook

[Contact Us] [Rules of Conduct] [F.A.Q.]

This is the link to the past he made. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8983324#edit8983324

 

So as you can see they posted it should be working like they changed it in 4.0. Sadly looking through I can not find nor remember where Eric or Tait or another dev had said they are fixing it, but it was in addition to fixing the crystals, which they already have fixed.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, hope that clears it up some.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Lakemine

[Lakemine]

Except that heroics were unnerfed.

 

Edit: err, will be.

 

 

 

That's how you end up with a barter economy, which would be far worse for you.

 

Ok first off not very good at economics and when people try to explain it....it still seems illogical but maybe you could try explaining it a different way?

 

How would putting a cap on all the gold and platinum items of 10, ok fine, 15 million be a bad thing and become a barter system? The people who got lucky in the packs or who bought it cheaper and then resold for 10-15 million are still getting 10-15 million per piece and the people who want it for their collections would know the amount of time they would have to farm for credits and know that in the time they are farming the price will not go up, it will stay the same or even go down, both parties are happy? And how would it be worse for me? As of right now its worse for me because when I want a specific speeder or a armor piece I look on the GTN and its 7-13 million per piece (for armor sets), so I go ok it will take me a couple of days to 2 weeks to farm credits from heroics and pvp and when I look back at the item it ballooned up to 25 million. Like I said, not trying to argue but trying to understand because people saying having less money prices go down doesn't make sense, people have less money they wont spend.....which gets told to me that, that's why prices go down......but I never see it happen, in either of the MMOs I play.....what does make sense is if people have money to spend and the prices are low people will buy more.

 

Also....upping the drop rates of gold and platinum items is needed also. Having items 25-200 million each is beyond stupid, as not everyone can sell one thing and instantly have 300+ million.

 

Thanks for answering if you do.

[Suzsi]

But you're just re-releasing for the 4th time the same items.. What's even the point?

 

Some of us want those items who still don't have them yet!

You wont catch me complaining about the possibility some of the sets I would really like may be cheaper on the GTN again for a while thanks to these packs!

[Lakemine]

I think they did this precisely to seed the servers with fresh items that players could buy up at somewhat reasonable prices to fill out a set they did not get every piece for in the D/L event packs.

 

Of course conspiracy theorists will quickly retort that the only reason they did the D/L event packs is so they could sell more of the BoE variants now being sold through the CM.

 

2 jawas, :jawa_biggrin: 1 lightsaber.

[Lakemine]

Wrong, platinum has it's own icon now.

 

Ahhh...they do? Well thank you very much for enlightening me.

[Lakemine]

Doing heroics solo isn't the best way to make money. You get three or four times the payout if you do them in a group, and that was untouched by the nerf.

 

Yeah....it was. Tested it. If not all of the bonuses, at least some of them. Also, I tried running them in groups, I could do the same planet and another one in the same amount of time needed. And yes I'm talking about Hoth and Tatooine not Tython and Ord Mantell. And yes I know it was obviously with the wrong group, but when I run the heroics when I can its at weird times, like 1-5am, and next to no one is running the heroics, I do invite if I see someone, but they more offen then not decline.

[Lakemine]

Well, the items in the DvL Packs were from the CM originally (except for the two new Tunings, which I'm happy will now be available on the GTN), so I have no problem with them being available on the CM again in this new 'wrapping'. It's not like they're putting Wings of the Architect or PVP Ranked rewards from previous seasons in them or anything like that.

 

As long as we're still getting the rewards as promised for the tiers, I don't mind these new CM options existing alongside them.

 

Same. I have no issue with these packs either, and I knew they were incoming before the event even started. What I do have a kinda semi issue with is the BoP boxes, because of there being a limited amount you can get, they should have made it a token system so you could pick what rewards you wanted. And yes that means less boxes, but I'm ok with that. The ones being bought on the CM being RNG gamble boxes, its whatever because that's what EVERY box has EVER been.

[Caelrie]

Ok first off not very good at economics and when people try to explain it....it still seems illogical but maybe you could try explaining it a different way?

 

How would putting a cap on all the gold and platinum items of 10, ok fine, 15 million be a bad thing and become a barter system? The people who got lucky in the packs or who bought it cheaper and then resold for 10-15 million are still getting 10-15 million per piece and the people who want it for their collections would know the amount of time they would have to farm for credits and know that in the time they are farming the price will not go up, it will stay the same or even go down, both parties are happy? And how would it be worse for me?

 

Because let's say I have a lightning tuning for sale. I don't want to sell it for 15 million credits. I think it's worth much more than that. So what do I do? I go to trade chat on the fleet and offer it instead of on the GTN. I KNOW someone will pay more than 15 million credits for it, so why not?

 

If you then decide to head that off by capping credit trades between players at 15 million too, I'll start offering the tuning only in exchange for something of equal value (in this case, the tunings regularly sell for 40 million). I'll want a Tulak Hord lower body set, or a different tuning, or a couple hypercrates, etc.

 

Your idea makes it even harder for YOU to buy these things.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Caelrie

[Vaxael]

So, your idea of "fixing" it is to just give us a CHANCE to get the same items that are bound to characters that we don't want them bound to? Not only that, but to also (generally) have to PAY for this. At this point, I don't know why I am surprised, as this is just classic money-grabbing on the part of EA and BioWare. Hell, you guys didn't even go and unbind the previous drops gotten through the event!!!!!!! This is low, even for you. I am supremely disappointed, but again, I don't know why I didn't expect anything better. Despicable. Edited July 13, 2016 by Vaxael

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Disney will not be your savior by any means. Any game made with their supervision will not be playable for anyone over the mental age of 8 years old.

 

From looking at the sparse GTN it looks like a good portion of "whales" didn't buy their customary 3-5 Hypercrates probably leading to EA telling them they didn't cover last months Vig and low and behold a new pack arrives in half the time other packs have been generated (around 3.5 weeks)

 

New pack was crap value for money is why people didn't buy it. Less resale value due to less cubes and increased cost? No thanks.

 

Regardless of if people agree with if that hike was justified ( I don't for the record ) it's still far worse value whilst there are 3 better packs on the GTN and now this pack too. Gemini is the worst pack this year by far imo.

 

As to your statement around Disney games ... that's a bit harsh though I guess it depends on what you mean by "their supersvision"?

I take it you don't have kids and feel games need a minimum modicum of violence to be entertaining perhaps?

 

Lego star wars for example is so much win!

 

It's strange because lego games are ideally targeted at younger audiences yet I'm working through Lego Avengers or something like that on PS4 with my daughter and the general gameplay puzzle content there is immeasurably more complex than anything we've had in this game in recent years that I can think of ( in the general gameplay sense so say puzzles in KoTFE or SoR etc. ) ... what does that say about the expected intelligence level of the target audience of this game when the developers have no interest in making it at all challenging? And no I'm not talking about combat in this regard, that just makes it worse.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

We ALL really should be used to this by now.

 

I'm NOT suggesting that we should like it, only that it is what it is.. and has been for years. I can't get too worked up though about things that are beyond my control and do not directly affect my game play.

 

Good communications generally creates good will, but people are so jaded over their communications years in... I don't think they can dig out of that hole.. and I bet they don't think so either. Besides.. one persons idea of good communications will be another persons purpose-2-rage. No pleasing everyone.

 

And let's not pretend that anyone needs much, if any, justification to jump on their neck.

 

I don't really get worked up over anything in this game I don't think. Even changes that have hurt me I've been known to defend ( chance cubes devalued 1000's of my hoarded items within a week for example but I saw the benefit to them and argued that point ).

 

I just make my point once or twice in detail and then respond in kind to posts I see that are either worth shooting down or with discussing/debating/arguing - something to do.

Of course it leads to said point being repeated a few times but that's a given when trying to get through to people sometimes ( which isn't necessarily change their mind or view, just have them understand the point you are trying to make ).

 

So in short for me to this pack ...

 

Thanks Bioware I am going to enjoy buying these as I like these sorts of packs. However I trust you even less now.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Here are the patch notes for 4.0 http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/10202015/game-update-4.0-knights-fallen-empire-early-access under the Cartel Market heading is specifically: "The number of Outfit pieces that you have unlocked is displayed on the set’s Collections icon. " That means you could have some pieces on one character and the missing pieces on another character and BOOM whole set unlocked. It worked because I tested it the day after, but....it broke between 4.1 and 4.4 because I retested it 2 days before 4.5 and the launch of DvL event due to a question in the fourm with 220+ pages and found it broken.

 

That's very interesting. Is it common knowledge that you could unlocks a set over different toons and that it broke?

Fwiw I assumed it had never changed and you always had to unlock each item on the same toon for it to count in collections.

 

Now for some tinfoil hat fun ... could it be they purposely broke it in light of this event coming and knowing they would be selling packs? I.e. make it as hard as possible for people to get full sets, tease them with 1-2 items from a set and thus push them into buying packs ( or support the buying of packs by buying from GTN ) to get that last missing item?

 

Wouldn't be funny if it got conveniently fixed just before or after the packs were available?

 

Funnily enough I'm only semi joking with my conspiracy theory above as I would put nothing past marketing departments these days and whilst BW has shown some outright poor design choices with the game itself they have imo had some genius moments over this year when it comes to marketing ( except the subscriber and get all previous chapters, I feel that wasn't well thought out but that was ideally made last year ).

 

 

 

 

Which is why a lot of people were calling Eric a lair when he said you could unlock them in collections even if they are on different characters, but....I just took it as he or most likely the devs, have not been playing or maybe just that specific part of the game since then and didn't know it had broke. Like I said, even I had not know it had broken till 2 days before it launched, as even I was going off of 4.0 information and things I had tested.

 

 

So as you can see they posted it should be working like they changed it in 4.0. Sadly looking through I can not find nor remember where Eric or Tait or another dev had said they are fixing it, but it was in addition to fixing the crystals, which they already have fixed.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, hope that clears it up some.

 

I had only noticed the fix on the crystals mentioned, nothing about the "numbers of items unlocked".

 

Am I the only who didn't know you could unlock armour collections over multiple toons at 4.0 or something?

 

Not that it matters me because I just do it all on one toon anyway which may be why I missed it.

[Gelious]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to let you know that later on today we will be introducing the Cartel Market version of the Dark Vs. Light packs, on sale

Rofl. Just like I thought, this whole DvL was just a cover for another money grab. Nice job.

At least it motivated me to play 2 more class stories, so some good came out of it.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Ok first off not very good at economics and when people try to explain it....it still seems illogical but maybe you could try explaining it a different way?

 

How would putting a cap on all the gold and platinum items of 10, ok fine, 15 million be a bad thing and become a barter system? The people who got lucky in the packs or who bought it cheaper and then resold for 10-15 million are still getting 10-15 million per piece and the people who want it for their collections would know the amount of time they would have to farm for credits and know that in the time they are farming the price will not go up, it will stay the same or even go down, both parties are happy? And how would it be worse for me? As of right now its worse for me because when I want a specific speeder or a armor piece I look on the GTN and its 7-13 million per piece (for armor sets), so I go ok it will take me a couple of days to 2 weeks to farm credits from heroics and pvp and when I look back at the item it ballooned up to 25 million. Like I said, not trying to argue but trying to understand because people saying having less money prices go down doesn't make sense, people have less money they wont spend.....which gets told to me that, that's why prices go down......but I never see it happen, in either of the MMOs I play.....what does make sense is if people have money to spend and the prices are low people will buy more.

 

Also....upping the drop rates of gold and platinum items is needed also. Having items 25-200 million each is beyond stupid, as not everyone can sell one thing and instantly have 300+ million.

 

Thanks for answering if you do.

 

The market is self regulating so ideally there is no "stupid" pricing. If someone pays that price great, if not then it sits there until either someone does or the price drops.

 

Also putting in pricing caps is a bad idea I feel. Why? Because I don't want you tell me how to play the game just so you can play the game how you want to play it.

 

I am happy for them to introduce packs like this to lower the prices though, sure my prices might drop but I don't really lose any freedom from it and I can get more goods in the process. I'm free then to wait weeks/months to resell at higher prices again by which time you should have got what you wanted at cheaper prices or too bad - you are at the whim of the inflated market prices again.

 

We all win when it's done this way in a way I guess, capping though will always actually affect how someone wants to play the game thus it's inherently unfair.