The outlander needs to "have it out" with Senya

[thebumpkin]

Just played through chapter 8 again on my Jedi Sage, and just as I was about to engage Vaylin Senya shows up and force pushes me away so she can fight Vaylin saying its a "Family matter" then, when Senya has Vaylin dead to rights she doesn't finish her off.

 

This really needs to be addressed in future chapters. If not for Senya... Vaylin might be dead before the conclusion of chapter 8

[Deshiel]

Oh don't worry if Vaylin kills somebody important, Senya is the type that will Imidiately take responsibility.

 

That supermega push that gets you landed on several metal crates deserves a payback tho.

[Lazproperty]

I'm pretty sure that 'family matter' thing was just an excuse and that she force pushed us because we were about to wreck her daughter, that's just like, maternal instinct kicking in or something. It was obvious by the way she talked to her she wasn't try to kill Vaylin but to make her see reason. Edited March 6, 2016 by Lazproperty

[thebumpkin]

That is all well and good, but yes that Force push deserves payback. Now in chapter 10 Senya is saying her children need to be stopped?

 

Uh, you had one there and then dead to rights! That was your chance to stop her. I thought Koth and his pro-Zakuul stuff was bad, but Senya just went top of the list.

[Lunafox]

Push come to shove, I don't think Senya has it in her to deal with her own kids. She talks a good game, but hey maybe if she'd stuck around, she might have reached them and influenced them. When the going got tough, she left them. She'll do it again.

[Lazproperty]

That is all well and good, but yes that Force push deserves payback. Now in chapter 10 Senya is saying her children need to be stopped?

 

Uh, you had one there and then dead to rights! That was your chance to stop her. I thought Koth and his pro-Zakuul stuff was bad, but Senya just went top of the list.

 

If you see it that way.

To me there are bigger issues than petty payback at the moment, not to mention Senya is a very valuable and powerful ally fighting at your side so I don't see why you would try to hurt her because of an harmless force push 3 chapters ago, that everyone including our chars brushed off as not a big deal, because it wasn't. Some people are awfully vindictive for not much around here, it's pretty crazy.

 

I however agree she shouldn't have step in if she wasn't able to finish the job, but that would still be an idiot move to get ride of her after that because even if she can't kill her kids she can harm them very bad for you to just finish them off for example.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Lazproperty

[Eanelinea]

Even if we were/are grand poobah of the galaxy, we are mortal (our toons) and they can be sucker punched like anyone. We weren't punched but we were pushed.

 

As for Senya...they are her children. Even though she feels terrible and responsible, and maybe she is, maybe she isn't, we don't know 100% for sure cause we weren't watching her and Valkorian raising the children. Yeah we got snippets, but they basically overed about 20-25 years in 4 minutes.

 

Anyway, as I was saying, they're her kids. She may be pissed off at them. She may want revenge or to see them stopped. But a NORMAL non-crazy-should-NEVEREVEREVERBEAMOTHER mother is going to have strong maternal instincts for her children.

 

She carried them, probably breast fed them, changed their diapers, sang to them, etc. Yeah Valkorian's minions probably did a lot for them when they were little, but I don't see Senya being a hands off mother completely.

 

It's just, aside from a pretty normal Thexan, Vaylin and Arcann has Vitiate/Valkorian for a father. They were raised by him and they have his DNA, so they're going to be nuttier than fruit cakes. IF Valkorian had only provided the DNA and was nicer to his kids, yeah they might still be strong, but not as nutty.

 

So, I'm not mad when Senya gets mad at her children. It's mostly guilt she feels, mainly for BEING their mother.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Eanelinea

[Eanelinea]

If you see it that way.

To me there are bigger issues than petty payback at the moment, not to mention Senya is a very valuable and powerful ally fighting at your side so I don't see why you would try to hurt her because of an harmless force push 3 chapters ago, that everyone including our chars brushed off as not a big deal, because it wasn't. Some people are awfully vindictive for not much around here, it's pretty crazy.

 

^ This.

 

I never understood this NEED for players to be vindictive over minor things.

 

Sucker-force pushed by Senya.

 

Quinn betraying you almost 7-8 years ago.

 

Koth having a hard on for Valkorian, getting mad for you killing all his people, trying to take the Gravestone. Or even just liking Valkorian gets people pissed.

 

I just don't understand this.

[Codedrago]

That is all well and good, but yes that Force push deserves payback. Now in chapter 10 Senya is saying her children need to be stopped?

 

Uh, you had one there and then dead to rights! That was your chance to stop her. I thought Koth and his pro-Zakuul stuff was bad, but Senya just went top of the list.

 

Considering that this is after she's had a chance to think over the information Vaylin gave her about Arcaan killing Thexan in cold blood AND after Arcaan destroyed 5 planets for no good reason.

[Codedrago]

^ This.

 

I never understood this NEED for players to be vindictive over minor things.

 

Sucker-force pushed by Senya.

 

Quinn betraying you almost 7-8 years ago.

Koth having a hard on for Valkorian, getting mad for you killing all his people, trying to take the Gravestone. Or even just liking Valkorian gets people pissed.

 

I just don't understand this.

 

Since when is somone trying to kill you a minor thing?

[thebumpkin]

Its not the Force push that is the issue of payback, its the fact that Senya got involved in something that she didn't have the guts to see through to the end. When she stepped in to fight instead of the outlander, she should have been willing to see it through to the very end and put a lightsaber through Vaylin's chest if that was what was needed. And frankly I do think that Senya should be sidelined because if the day comes when you face Arcann or Vaylin and beat them... if you go to deliver a killing blow... what is Senya going to do? She is their mother, and no mother wants to kill her own child. So the outrage at the end of Chapter 10 is utterly hollow coming from her.

 

Also on an aside note...

 

Quinn's betrayal of the Sith Warrior is ridiculous, as most Sith would have killed him for it. The fact you don't get to address that in game and even with the dark side choice give him a second chance is rather mad, because if I were a Sith, Quinn would be toast! The fact the game prevents me doing that is annoying.

[thebumpkin]

^ This.

 

I never understood this NEED for players to be vindictive over minor things.

 

Sucker-force pushed by Senya.

 

Quinn betraying you almost 7-8 years ago.

 

Koth having a hard on for Valkorian, getting mad for you killing all his people, trying to take the Gravestone. Or even just liking Valkorian gets people pissed.

 

I just don't understand this.

 

Senya's sucker Push allowed Vaylin to leave Asylum alive and more nasty than ever. Senya screwed up. And a lot of Koth's crew died because she was too busy trading blows with somebody she never intended to take down. The best thing Senya could have done was leave Vaylin to the outlander. Senya's minor thing had devastating consequences.

 

Quinn tried to kill your character. That is not minor. He even tells you that he's studied you and thinks he has the most optimal way to take you down.

 

Koth seems minor yes, ok so he won't hear a bad word against the Emperor that is not so bad, but he is completely spineless when it comes to Zakuul. In the very beginning, literally minutes, after you just got out of Carbonite, Koth expects you to stop the reactor exploding which was due to psychotic Vaylin. To hell with you, you can risk yourself getting killed or recaptured, but Zakuul comes first. That is a problem when your enemy also happens to be Zakuul.

 

I get that Koth doesn't want to see Zakuulans suffer, but it also makes him a liability as well, particularly if you happen to be playing a Dark Sider or a Sith.

[cool-dude]

I'm pretty sure that 'family matter' thing was just an excuse and that she force pushed us because we were about to wreck her daughter, that's just like, maternal instinct kicking in or something. It was obvious by the way she talked to her she wasn't try to kill Vaylin but to make her see reason.

 

Yeah, we were about to pwn a person who ripped a power core apart, while we needed Lanas help to open a door.

[Lazproperty]

Yeah, we were about to pwn a person who ripped a power core apart, while we needed Lanas help to open a door.

 

Yeah, I never saw a power core or a door strike back or make a good argument when talking about a fight to death situation though, and she did lose against Senya I would remind you, who's nowhere near as powerful as her, supposedly.

 

Raw force power =/= Fighting skills, she's still only a bratty child who's been sheltered her whole life, ripping through doors or killing her own guards execution style doesn't make her very combat savvy against a skilled and experienced opponent.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Lazproperty

[josephinec]

^ This.

 

I never understood this NEED for players to be vindictive over minor things.

 

Sucker-force pushed by Senya.

 

Quinn betraying you almost 7-8 years ago.

 

Koth having a hard on for Valkorian, getting mad for you killing all his people, trying to take the Gravestone. Or even just liking Valkorian gets people pissed.

 

I just don't understand this.

 

Quinn's attempt to kill the Warrior was not a small thing. He even admitted after defeating that he "betrayed you, conspired with your most hated enemy". Thing is, even a fair chunk of light side Warriors would have killed him, at least all but one of mine would have.

 

Here's the thing about Koth: Senya mentions on the way to meet the Lady of Sorrows(correct me if I'm wrong) how dominant and important Valkorion was in Zakuulan society. In the codex entry for the Eternal Empire, it is called a dictatorship. Of course a Zakuul native is going to think highly of Valkorion.

If nothing else, suppose a friend of yours walks up to you and says the candidate you support is actually an alien. Even if they send you research and reports on it, are you going to believe it? And do we know if Lana showed Koth holos of Ziost, or told him about Revan?

I predict something will happen that will be a wake-up call for Koth. It wouldn't make sense to keep him a Valkorion fan all the time.

 

As for Senya, it can't possibly be easy to watch your own children destroy planets and kill their own soldiers. As another person said, she's probably feeling guilty for leaving.

Do we know how old the kids were when she left? It'd be one thing if they were young, but another thing if they were teenagers.

 

I can totally understand people not trusting Senya due to her not taking out Vaylin when she could. But we don't know what role Vaylin will play in upcoming chapters.

However, if you're upset because she threw your character to the side, out of her batty child's way, you're overreacting. Lana is on par with the other Force users, but those characters may not be in tip top shape. Vaylin could kill the character simply because she's reckless and bashing her way through things.

[ZanyaCross]

How would you even know Senya let her kid live? The only ones who saw it were Senya and Vaylin, and Arcann after his sister told him.

 

Metagame much?

[AshlaBoga]

How would you even know Senya let her kid live? The only ones who saw it were Senya and Vaylin, and Arcann after his sister told him.

 

Metagame much?

 

I'm mostly wondering how my "strongest of their generation" Sith/Jedi was so easily pushed like a ragdoll.

[blendedseal]

How would you even know Senya let her kid live? The only ones who saw it were Senya and Vaylin, and Arcann after his sister told him.

 

Metagame much?

 

Plus everyone here is acting like they could remain unfazed if they found out on of their sons murdered their other son

[Lazproperty]

I'm mostly wondering how my "strongest of their generation" Sith/Jedi was so easily pushed like a ragdoll.

 

You're taken by surprise, plus Senya is strong enough to rival with us right now and it's not like you're glued to the ground no matter how powerful you are.

 

It's good we've been thrown around a little during this expansion and made vulnerable, before that everything always seemed too easy for our characters to go through, making a lot of players too cocky and overconfident in their abilities in my honest opinion.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Lazproperty

[ganondorq]

senya is not as strong as we are.

 

the only reason lana opened that door for us, is because we were half dead from carbonite sickness. we would have wrecked vaylin right there if we would have had the opportunity.

 

we do need to be able to say something to senya over it. but we shouldn't fight her, that's pointless.

[thebumpkin]

Yeah, we were about to pwn a person who ripped a power core apart, while we needed Lanas help to open a door.

 

That was right at the beginning, when the "outlander" had just been thawed from carbonite after 5 years of slow death by poison.... the fact you can even run at that stage is an epic feat in itself.

 

Outlander vs Vaylin on Asylum, different story and pwnage may well have been possible.

 

Also nothing that Vaylin has done is really out there when compared to the Jedi Consular for example in terms of Force mastery. On Taris the Consular effortlessly blows apart a massive metal door several foot thick like it was cooking foil. Vaylin just looks more impressive because she's mad as a hatter. And her random executions are really nothing to be awed by...

[josephinec]

I'm mostly wondering how my "strongest of their generation" Sith/Jedi was so easily pushed like a ragdoll.

 

The final boss of the Consular story pushes them around in the cinematic before the fight.

The final boss for the Knight on Corellia also knocks them around, not to mention the ending of Jedi Knight Chapter Two.

The Inquisitor is pwned by the ghosts they collected at the end of Chapter Two.

The Warrior gets caught off guard and nearly crushed by rocks on Quesh to start Chapter Three.

 

But a gifted former Knight of Zakuul pushes the player character away from her psycho daughter and everyone loses their minds.

[thebumpkin]

How would you even know Senya let her kid live? The only ones who saw it were Senya and Vaylin, and Arcann after his sister told him.

 

Metagame much?

 

Thats incorrect. In Chapter 9 you talk to Senya and she tells you that she let Vaylin go. Well a version of it... She says that she froze when Vaylin said that Arcann killed Thexan, and Vaylin escaped. So player knows better, but Character still knows that Senya spared Vaylin.

[ZanyaCross]

You're taken by surprise, plus Senya is strong enough to rival with us right now and it's not like you're glued to the ground no matter how powerful you are.

 

It's good we've been thrown around a little during this expansion and made vulnerable, before that everything always seemed too easy for our characters to go through, making a lot of players too cocky and overconfident in their abilities in my honest opinion.

 

I have to agree strongly with this. The game has done such a good job of making you out to be this unstoppable force of nature that now people complain if they encounter any resistance at all. Arcann is probably the first villain encountered, outside the Inquisitor story, that you absolutely can't beat by yourself the first time you fight.

 

It's no wonder so many people avoid pvp and ops, or only try it once. You get humbled ten times as badly your first time in those and you can't even blame it on a cutscene.

[Codedrago]

I have to agree strongly with this. The game has done such a good job of making you out to be this unstoppable force of nature that now people complain if they encounter any resistance at all. Arcann is probably the first villain encountered, outside the Inquisitor story, that you absolutely can't beat by yourself the first time you fight.

 

It's no wonder so many people avoid pvp and ops, or only try it once. You get humbled ten times as badly your first time in those and you can't even blame it on a cutscene.

 

Vitiate also kicks your *** the first time around and there is that sith on Tatooine during the Smuggler story.